To the Developers, State of the Cleric Address.

[Cowdenicus]

actually, the ML on caster items is a bit... wonky.

after all, on a standard +5 weapon, the ML is 8.
Your scepter is a +8 weapon, with ML 10. '
I'd guess that it's ignoring the +2 enhancement bonus for ML purposes, and being counted as a +6 weapon due to the Superior Devotion VI alone, but i haven't really looked into that theory.

I do believe I've seen +14 scepters drop at ML14... might have been ML16, but that's not important: they break the standard.

We really should be seeing Superior Devotion VII though...

Just like i never understood why Healing Lore is always restricted to raid items, I'm not sure why Devotion is being left out this time.

I was going to mention the healing lore issue also...... doh.

[Impaqt]

That is a false statement. There is no reason for Super Dev 9 to be available at level 16, or even at level 18.

Simply saying "I want it, I want it NOW" is not actually justification to give you anything.

Theres Absoluteluy NOTHING False about that statement. Its based on the Existing progression of single spell school Enhancement items established inthe game already.

"Its not there, so it shouldnt be" is a valid argument? Are you kidding me?

[Mad_Bombardier]

I completely agree with Cowdenicus. Superior Combustion VII, ml:14 (the only damage spell boostable by scepters) has been available since one of the 4.x updates last spring/summer. There is NO reason why Devotion VII should not also be in the loot tables. They just stop at spell level VI. And there are no Devotion VII items in named loot either that would be ousted by random loot.

We do have Greater Potency VII, ml:14. But, no individual spell type boosts above L7. We should be seeing Greater Potency IIX, Superior Potency VII, Superior Glaciation IIX, and Superior Devotion VII & IIX.

[tihocan]

Just wanted to bump for some cleric love. Mod.6 was really disappointing for clerics

[TechNoFear]

Has anyone ever found a healing lore item as a random drop?

Devotion items are much rarer than Potency items.

Healing law items are non existant, except as static loot. Caster lore items are however very, common.

[GlassCannon]

also note, devotion is not the same as potency, it is akin to combustion. I pulled many Superior combustion 7 items out of gianthold..... Never seen a superior devotion 7 item though.

In other words the Minimum Level is 2 less than a Potency of the same bonus rating. I'm baffled that I have not yet pulled a Minimum Level 15 Race Restricted +7 stat item, or a Race Restricted Minimum Level 16 +1 Superior Potency 9 item(Why can't we see Masterwork caster items dropping? Why do they always need an Attack Bonus?)... heck the closest I get is a superior potency 7(pulled 2 days ago).

Due to the extreme amount of damage people are taking in the new content, these items NEED to be put in!

[eaten by cube]

[Tin_Dragon]

Just wanted to bump for some cleric love. Mod.6 was really disappointing for clerics

I point to Holy Aura as a Prime Example of this.

as it is It adds a +4 Deflect to AC, and a +4 Resist on Saves.

Thats it. I believe it is safe to say that by the time we are 15 th level, we dont need the cleric to buff us with this, if you need the AC, mass Shield of Faith gets you taken care of there, and most of us have a +4, or even +5 resistance cloak, IF we really need it.

Now, the problem is what is MISSING from this spell :

Holy Aura
Abjuration [Good]
Level: Clr 8, Good 8
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 20 ft.
Targets: One creature/level in a 20-ft.-radius burst centered on you
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw: See text
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

A brilliant divine radiance surrounds the subjects, protecting them from attacks, granting them resistance to spells cast by evil creatures, and causing evil creatures to become blinded when they strike the subjects. This abjuration has four effects.

First, each warded creature gains a +4 deflection bonus to AC and a +4 resistance bonus on saves. Unlike protection from evil, this benefit applies against all attacks, not just against attacks by evil creatures.

Second, each warded creature gains spell resistance 25 against evil spells and spells cast by evil creatures.

Third, the abjuration blocks possession and mental influence, just as protection from evil does.

Finally, if an evil creature succeeds on a melee attack against a warded creature, the offending attacker is blinded (Fortitude save negates, as blindness/deafness, but against holy aura’s save DC).



Now THAT would make the spell worth carrying.

[MysticTheurge]

+1 Superior Potency 9 item(Why can't we see Masterwork caster items dropping? Why do they always need an Attack Bonus?)

Since mod 4, the enhancement bonus on a caster item is not actually included in the ML calculations.

The standard array of stuff is put on there and then an enhancement bonus is tacked on at the end, based on the value of the item.

[MysticTheurge]

I point to Holy Aura as a Prime Example of this.

as it is It adds a +4 Deflect to AC, and a +4 Resist on Saves.

Thats it. I believe it is safe to say that by the time we are 15 th level, we dont need the cleric to buff us with this, if you need the AC, mass Shield of Faith gets you taken care of there, and most of us have a +4, or even +5 resistance cloak, IF we really need it.

Rumor has it that it's currently a stacking +4 to AC and Saves, even if you already have a deflection and resistance bonus to those two things. (Which they should fix to not be true.)

Plus, the blind-guard thing is working.

But the spell should be an AoE party effect, not a self-only, single target spell.

[winsom]

I think the Heal Scroll is causing a large problem for game balance. Its inclusion on vendors would seem to indicate that the developers intend us to use these (and lots of them!) as a tool to solve adventure content. I think heal scrolls, and infinite vendor access to scrolls and wands in general, end up breaking the D&D concept of resource scarcity. You give our characters limited SPs and limited shrine use and then add a supply of consumables to counter-act that. Thats not very smart, at least not at the current vendor prices for wands and scrolls.

I would rather have content be designed and played via tactics that require resource management other than dozens of Heal scrolls and mana potions. At least the mana potions are expensive enough not to be a truly reliable resource. Its bad that cleric players, more than any other class, have the burden of needing 100s of 1000s of gold invested in consumables at high levels, and then they are expected to burn through that at an alarming rate.

Please fix.

[BlueLightBandit]

I think the Heal Scroll is causing a large problem for game balance. Its inclusion on vendors would seem to indicate that the developers intend us to use these (and lots of them!) as a tool to solve adventure content. I think heal scrolls, and infinite vendor access to scrolls and wands in general, end up breaking the D&D concept of resource scarcity. You give our characters limited SPs and limited shrine use and then add a supply of consumables to counter-act that. Thats not very smart, at least not at the current vendor prices for wands and scrolls.

I would rather have content be designed and played via tactics that require resource management other than dozens of Heal scrolls and mana potions. At least the mana potions are expensive enough not to be a truly reliable resource. Its bad that cleric players, more than any other class, have the burden of needing 100s of 1000s of gold invested in consumables at high levels, and then they are expected to burn through that at an alarming rate.

Please fix.

Funny enough, my cleric has all of the possible wand/scroll enhancements to improve the base "damage" from these, but has been so lazy lately and hasn't picked up any wands for a couple of weeks lately. Aside from the occastion 160 pt heals from scrolls, he very rarely uses anything other than his mana in the Vale quests. Shroud runs are a different story, and I'm thinking that clerics should not get a bump based on raids... but with nearly 15k spell points and the right enhancements my cleric does just fine.

Considering the 16th level cleric should be fine without "accessories" (like wands, scrolls, enhancement items) in a 16th level quest, no changes need to be made to the class itself.

The drop rate of items (or lack thereof) is a problem that they are aware of. Hopefully it will be fixed soon, although I don't foresee a patch or a mod anytime in the next few months.

And as it's been said before... the Twelve is an arcane group. They've introduced a large number of arcane items that weren't available in the quantities they were before. The same was true of the Silver Flame of the prior mod, as they made higher level cure pots available en masse. Just because we didn't see cure critical wands made available doesn't mean they haven't added something for the fleshies. Besides, I've also noticed a higher number of self-reliant characters at the higher levels, so making higher level pots available actually helps the cleric, as if they were wands then the cleric would be expected to purchase them before every quest. The pots are self-only and bound IIRC, so they actually make it *gasp* easier on the cleric.

Besides, in no way shape sort or form should the cleric be responsible for 100% of the healing in a party. Rangers, bards, paladins, now sorcerers and rogues with UMD, can all use cure serious wands freely... not to mention the concept that cure serious pots are available in every house now. By NOT increasing the benefits to clerics, they may have actually made it easier on them.

[Angelus_dead]

I point to Holy Aura as a Prime Example of this.

Exactly.

Like I said before, the needed cleric attention is not in stronger loot, and it's certainly not in domains- it is in fixing the level 8 spell list. Sorcerers also need better level 8 spells, but not as badly.

[winsom]

Protection from Evil and Magic Circle vs Evil are giving a stacking bonus to saving throws, even though it isn't supposed to stack. I've tested it multiple times recently, watching my combat log results. It may be stacking +2 AC as well.

Thats some really nice Cleric and Paladin love right there! Perhaps this glitch should stay in the game until clerics and paladins get some better spells and abilities.

My wizard memorizes Protection from Evil/Magic Circle, my bard/rogue carries Wands of it, and my ranger wears the permanent Protection from Evil item Not everyone does this like I do, so you clerics and paladins have the task of giving them the stacking bonus!

[bobbryan2]

Exactly.

Like I said before, the needed cleric attention is not in stronger loot, and it's certainly not in domains- it is in fixing the level 8 spell list. Sorcerers also need better level 8 spells, but not as badly.

Actually, Sorcs don't need better level 8 spells... they need loot so they can use the level 8 spells we got. Clerics need new spells, their spell list was atrocious.

[MysticTheurge]

Relatively easy spells, from the PHB and Spell Compendium (and a few other sources), which could be added to the level 8 cleric spell list:

8th-level Cleric Spells
Antimagic Field: Negates magic within 10 ft.
Bodak's Glare: You slay a creature, which turns into a bodak 24 hours later.
Cloak of Chaos: +4 to AC, +4 resistance, and SR 25 against lawful spells.
Chain Dispel: Dispel multiple magical effects on multiple creatures.
Create Greater Undead: Create shadows, wraiths, spectres, or devourers.
Death Pact: Deity bring subject back from the dead automatically.
Earthquake: Intense tremor shakes 80-ft.-radius.
Fierce Pride of the Beastlands: Summon celestial lions and celestial dire lions to follow your commands.
Heat Drain: Subject takes 1d6 cold damage/level, you gain equal amount hp.
Lion's Roar: Deal 1d8 points of damage/2 levels to enemies; allies get +1 on attacks and saves against fear, plus temporary HPs.
Shield of Law: +4 to AC, +4 resistance, and SR 25 against chaotic spells.
Symbol of Insanity: Triggered rune renders nearby creatures insane.
Unholy Aura: +4 to AC, +4 resistance, and SR 25 against good spells.
Veil of Undeath: You gain undead traits.
Visions of the Future: +2 sacred bonus on saves, +2 dodge bonus to AC; discharge spell to gain bonus equal to half caster level that lasts for six seconds. [Self only.]

[Yaga_Nub]

Relatively easy spells, from the PHB and Spell Compendium (and a few other sources), which could be added to the level 8 cleric spell list:

I don't think that it's for lack of a spell list that they aren't implementing new spells. I think it's the same reason as the monk and druid. You still have to create effects and animate those effects.

[TFPAQ]

I'm sorry, but if you need to carry stacks of heal scrolls, the game is messed up. I don't even run my cleric in the shroud unless it is basically a guild run because of the resource costs.

My lvl 14 dwarven fighter has almost 450 hp, and I run with some barbs that are well above that. Given the quest durations and the mana/hp sinks that many chars are, I really believe that clerics need some substantial modification to their healing options.

I don't care if you want to substantially reduce cleric's costs of purchase on healing items and bind them, or dramatically increase the effectiveness of the healing (by enhancement or item). But I don't like running my cleric anymore because of the plat debt, and sadly he dates back to the open prior to release and was my favorite for soooo long.

[Angelus_dead]

I'm sorry, but if you need to carry stacks of heal scrolls, the game is messed up. I don't even run my cleric in the shroud unless it is basically a guild run because of the resource costs.

There's no resource cost if you're good at it.

If you're not good at it, then maybe you should wait until you're level 17 to expect to beat a level 17 quest without expenses. Complaining that a higher level quest is kinda hard is groundless.

[MysticTheurge]

I don't think that it's for lack of a spell list that they aren't implementing new spells. I think it's the same reason as the monk and druid. You still have to create effects and animate those effects.

From that list, the following spells could be done with little or no new effects or animations. (Except for an icon to represent he spell.)

Antimagic Field
Cloak of Chaos
Chain Dispel
Create Greater Undead
Fierce Pride of the Beastlands
Heat Drain (re-color the enervation/level-loss animation)
Lion's Roar
Shield of Law
Unholy Aura
Veil of Undeath
Visions of the Future

In short, the only ones that would require major effects/animation would be Bodak's Glare and Earthquake.

[arcsonist]

so our clerics dont have to burn through sp and resources.