Hardcore - Nothing else

[Nonesuch2008]

Starting to sound like the old days... OK everybody, link your (blank)beater before we go in! What???!!! You don't HAVE a (blank)? Getouddahere! *Booted

Hardcore version:

Ok everybody, we only want competent people in the group for this. Type /Death Count & post it in group chat!

*DING

OK, the newbs have been culled, let's go!

[LTForge]

While I like the concept of a Hardcore server I don't think I'd be a happy camper if it replaced the game as is. It's nice to be able to face challenges without having to worry too much, so I'm going to propose an alternative.

Change the way survival bonuses work to incorporate additional bonuses for survival, thus helping to alleviate the grind AND encourage a more careful approach to play. Do so in the following order:
1) Increase the No Deaths personal bonus to 25% instead of 10%
2) Change the Deaths bonuses from All-Or-Nothing to a decremented system, which has base values to the tune of 25% at 0 Deaths, 10% at 1 death, 0% at 2 or more deaths. (Just for example)
3) Adjust the above bonuses based on difficulty. Casual with the lowest risk reward balance, Elite/Reaper with the highest.
4) DO NOT lower Quest base EXP values in any way shape or form if the above is implemented as that would just lead to a lot of very annoyed players.

[Optional] Add a small, 5% bonus on TOP of already existing EXP bonuses, that's awarded if a dungeon is completed with no party deaths (Does not include Hirelings/Familiars/Summons) This could backfire really hard, even if it's just a bonus. Blame game and all.

Just a thought, figured I'd share in case people like it or have a better idea.

[Grace_ana]

It is amazing how much more fun games are when you take them seriously. When you treat your character's life as if it were your own and seek to avoid death at all costs, the game is a thrilling experience. It is sad how hard it is to get people to do this on the main servers. Death is so trivial in their minds that they behave recklessly so the game becomes a grind instead of an adventure.

If I wanted to take something seriously, I would play Real Life.

Just saying, your fun is not everyone else's fun.

[EllisDee37]

Would it be better or worse if instead of death ending you, death put you on a 3-day lockout timer, sort of like a raid timer?

(Also, regardless how fun Hardcore is, it's not compatible with the game as a whole. Shroud simply doesn't work, for example.)

[Ralmeth]

Would it be better or worse if instead of death ending you, death put you on a 3-day lockout timer, sort of like a raid timer?

(Also, regardless how fun Hardcore is, it's not compatible with the game as a whole. Shroud simply doesn't work, for example.)

Neither. After playing on hardcore for a week and now losing a fourth character almost instantly, forget it. I’m out. That is just way too frustrating as there’s no chance of recovery. You’re just gone and all the time you put into your character is lost. By the way, just want to say to my fellow party members, thanks for the heals or any kind of help. I guess I’m doing it wrong wanting to play a melee.

[erethizon]

Yeah but death is TOO painful on the hardcore server..

Sure, it's fun for a while, for a change of pace, but dying at level 13 is pretty terrible, and if all the servers were like that, I'd probably quit at some point.

I agree completely. I don't want death to come with a punishment at all. I simply want people to treat their character's life as though it were valuable. For over a decade when playing MMO's I would avoid death at all cost and be upset every time I died. This was completely separate from any punishment I received. The failure of death is its own punishment. No further punishment is necessary (for me). Unfortunately, many people don't treat their characters as they would themselves and programmed punishment is the only thing keeps them from jumping off a cliff and laughing as they fall to their death. To make matters worse, when these people play with others they do things to get the other people killed as well (sometimes on purpose but usually just by behaving recklessly).

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

It is amazing how much more fun games are when you take them seriously. When you treat your character's life as if it were your own and seek to avoid death at all costs, the game is a thrilling experience. It is sad how hard it is to get people to do this on the main servers. Death is so trivial in their minds that they behave recklessly so the game becomes a grind instead of an adventure.

I agree, and this includes reading and actually doing dialogs. Because some of them can affect a few things within the quest (sadly not many, though. DDO is still too much of an action game to me).

[Saekee]

If nothing else, add death announcements on main servers

[Cernunan]

So they should stop making Raids then, or they have to gutt the entire raid experience and make raids less challenging. Because THtH would have wiped the entire raiding base on day one. It would be so much fun to have an entire part of the game specifically designed to never be played ….

[LurkingVeteran]

Would it be better or worse if instead of death ending you, death put you on a 3-day lockout timer, sort of like a raid timer?

(Also, regardless how fun Hardcore is, it's not compatible with the game as a whole. Shroud simply doesn't work, for example.)

This is interesting, and not as punishing for casuals either. Grinders can level alts and just have to make sure not to die too often.

[Cernunan]

If nothing else, add death announcements on main servers

It was cute on HC the first week, it's starting to get to be a bit much

[SerPounce]

Yeah but death is TOO painful on the hardcore server..

Sure, it's fun for a while, for a change of pace, but dying at level 13 is pretty terrible, and if all the servers were like that, I'd probably quit at some point.

Yeah, even with all the xp buffs we have at this point the game is still pretty grindy for hardcore.

I initially liked the idea of favor based rewards, but it makes restarting particularly painful because you have to go run all the same quests again. I died at lvl9 from being stupid last night on a farming run (defaulted to zerg mode, and didn't pay enough attention). I want give it another shot, but I'm just not up for running korthos and the harbor again yet. Maybe in a few days.

At the same time I don't want to go play on the main servers again after the heart pumping adrenaline rush of the hardcore server.

It would be great if there was some medium where death had enough consequences to be exciting, but didn't involve running running access korthos island again and again farming anger's step clickies....

[salmag]

I would prefer something like this: if you die, your soul-stone shows up. If there is a means to res you in quest (like Raise Dead, or even a shrine, if someone can carry you there), then you would live to fight another day. If there is no means, unfortunately, you are dead. If the healer dies, hopefully someone grabs his soul stone and gets them to the shrine. If the party wipes, "all dead, all dead," as the Queen song goes.

I would remove all scrolls from vendors as well; but increase the drop rates for them in chests.

[sabella]

Hardcore is fun for a change, but I would get bored with doing it all the time. I'm still reluctant to do Korthos yet again on the main server from playing years ago where we played each quest three times and started over too often. Doing that forever? No thanks.

I'm pretty sure one of the reasons we abandoned the game a long time ago was that it was too hard/stressful. Right now we're having a lot of fun, so I'm not anxious to see a lot of changes, but we love the harder (memories) server as a distraction and for trying things out.

Also there is a tactic/technique I miss a lot that can't happen in hardcore. My guild is all family so we're close - with pugs this probably doesn't happen as much. But anyway, when several people or everyone in the party except one dies, it's just tons of fun to watch whoever is left (usually my son or son-in-law, our best players) run around and pick up everyone's soul stones and strategize trying to get to a rest (or find one/open one) and get us all back up so we only almost party wipe. The ghosts usually run ahead and shout warnings and try to find things (depending on how well we know the quests) and since we're close, we're all fairly invested in the surviving character as well. So it's very fun on a semi-regular basis when we play reaper

I'd miss that a lot of there were no shrines.

[sabella]

I would prefer something like this: if you die, your soul-stone shows up. If there is a means to res you in quest (like Raise Dead, or even a shrine, if someone can carry you there), then you would live to fight another day. If there is no means, unfortunately, you are dead. If the healer dies, hopefully grabs his souls tone and gets them to the shrine. If the party wipes, "all dead, all dead," as the Queen song goes.

I would remove all scrolls from vendors as well; but increase the drop rates for them in chests.

Oh I didn't see this when I posted. This could be fun, though I still don't want to start over all the time, but this combined with a time out or something might be interesting.

[nokowi]

It is amazing how much more fun games are when you take them seriously. When you treat your character's life as if it were your own and seek to avoid death at all costs, the game is a thrilling experience. It is sad how hard it is to get people to do this on the main servers. Death is so trivial in their minds that they behave recklessly so the game becomes a grind instead of an adventure.

Stealth players were doing this for years, taking risks, and paying for mistakes

Too bad such play was not a priority in SSG design.

People don't do it on the main server because they have designed away from such interests there.

Think of how exciting the game would be if they had spent the last 3 years designing for such an experience on the main servers, instead of designing against it.

[SuperNiCd]

On live?

I suppose instead of PD you could start removing some past lives, reaper points, and possibly equipped gear as a death penalty. That'd probably get everyone to pay keen attention to staying alive, slowly start to remove some pent up power creep, and not penalize new players too much. Might equalize things out a bit.

The other element that makes HCL exciting is scarcity. Plat is valuable instead of worthless. We need gear more than ever what with not having PLs and shared banks to pull from. I think DDO was designed to have a component of economic strategy that was basically already dead before I started playing.

HCL is good stuff. Really making for a thrilling game. I haven't died yet (playing cautiously), but yeah, there's only so many times in a given period you can run the lowbie quests and not start to get a little burnt out, I would think. Not sure PD on live would work out that well, but maybe something more than what's in place today would add some excitement.

[MonadRebelion]

Just wow.
I am sold.
Having watched experienced players too nervous to go near a trap.
Having seen groups fill easier than i spread butter
Having seen all quests being played
Having heard more people speak and chat about strategy in years

This is what dnd was always about for me. This is awesome.
Make all servers hardcore and see what happens.

You risk grinding for loot - you loose it - have to do it again.

Those that survive hardcore reaper go to a reaper server (and can progress)
Those that survive favour go to a non reaper server and progress. Being able to play to R4. If they wish to do more they need to run reaper


Something like that.
Get rid of all that TR'ing / grinding / moaning....

Couldn't agree more. So many of us are able to just play the game instead of just think about how to shorten the grind so we can play. Actually been running with someone I used to run with in heroics but haven't really seen in years. Met a lot of really cool people from other servers. Been having so much fun that I've been wrecking my sleep schedule.

[Fenrisulven7]

It is amazing how much more fun games are when you take them seriously. When you treat your character's life as if it were your own and seek to avoid death at all costs, the game is a thrilling experience. It is sad how hard it is to get people to do this on the main servers. Death is so trivial in their minds that they behave recklessly so the game becomes a grind instead of an adventure.

Yup. Long ago I dipped into Parvo's Permadeath Guild - most intense and enjoyable gaming I have ever experienced. Glad you guys are getting the same. But hard to come back to the mindless zerg to cap.

I'm still holding out. I want a server with no vendors. (psst devs - CLW pots for 25 DDO points in the store!)

Maybe test it for the next 90 day interation of HardCore? No AH, no shards, no vendors.

[SerPounce]

Yup. Long ago I dipped into Parvo's Permadeath Guild - most intense and enjoyable gaming I have ever experienced. Glad you guys are getting the same. But hard to come back to the mindless zerg to cap.

I'm still holding out. I want a server with no vendors. (psst devs - CLW pots for 25 DDO points in the store!)

Maybe test it for the next 90 day interation of HardCore? No AH, no shards, no vendors.

To each there own, but it's that stuff that made me disinterested in "permadeath" groups previously. I don't want to play an MMO where I can't trade or any of the other myriad of rules they usually had. A lot of what makes the hardcore server fun is it brings back a lot of that classic MMO stuff that kind of died out on live due to anti-duping measures.