Mechanic Rogue question

[erethizon]

I'm looking to make a Shadar Kai Mechanic to get my last 2 rogue lives done (and first 2 Shadar Kai lives done) and had a question about feats. Pretty much every mechanic guide says to pick the following feats:

Point Blank Shot
Rapid Shot
Rapid Reload
Precision
Precise Shot
Imp Critical
Imp Precise Shot


My question is, if I really wanted to have the completionist feat in my build, which of the above feats is the most expendable? If you very strongly suggest against picking completionist in place of any of these feel free to say that too (but I really think the +3 to every skill will be helpful since I haven't played a trapper in at least 5 years).

By the way, the plan is to use a great crossbow. But since I am here asking questions (and since my third Shadar Kai life will likely be a 2 rogue/18 artificer) which feat would you give up when using a repeating crossbow?

[EllisDee37]

By the way, the plan is to use a great crossbow. But since I am here asking questions (and since my third Shadar Kai life will likely be a 2 rogue/18 artificer) which feat would you give up when using a repeating crossbow?

Artificers are proficient with repeating crossbows, no feat necessary.


Regarding your seven heroic feats, what epic feats are you taking? You have to go to all the way to 30 for an iconic reincarnation anyway, and maybe one of your epic feats is the one that doesn't make the cut.

[cestvel]

I'm looking to make a Shadar Kai Mechanic to get my last 2 rogue lives done (and first 2 Shadar Kai lives done) and had a question about feats. Pretty much every mechanic guide says to pick the following feats:

Point Blank Shot
Rapid Shot
Rapid Reload
Precision
Precise Shot
Imp Critical
Imp Precise Shot


My question is, if I really wanted to have the completionist feat in my build, which of the above feats is the most expendable? If you very strongly suggest against picking completionist in place of any of these feel free to say that too (but I really think the +3 to every skill will be helpful since I haven't played a trapper in at least 5 years).

I'll drop Precison or add Completionist as an epic feat. Other option is to add Completionist anywhere you like and take the last feat on an epic level.

By the way, the plan is to use a great crossbow. But since I am here asking questions (and since my third Shadar Kai life will likely be a 2 rogue/18 artificer) which feat would you give up when using a repeating crossbow?

You can drop Rapid Reload, as it comes free with being an Artificer.

[EllisDee37]

You can drop Rapid Reload, as it comes free with being an Artificer.

Yeah, actually, the 2/18 rogue/artificer build is feat-rich compared to pure rogue:

Artificer levels grant Rapid Reload and Proficiency with repeaters, saving a feat slot, plus you also get bonus feats at artificer level 4, 8, 12 and 16. The list of artificer bonus feats include every feat listed in the OP except Precision.

The net result is the 2/18 build gets 12 heroic feats counting the free rapid reload, so you get everything in the OP plus 5 more feats of your choosing. You might consider taking both construct essence feats so you can heal yourself with repair spells, leaving three slots to play with.

[unbongwah]

Point Blank Shot
Rapid Shot
Rapid Reload
Precision
Precise Shot
Imp Critical
Imp Precise Shot

Rapid Shot can be backloaded or skipped. It's not a pre-req for anything else and it provides a smaller DPS gain to xbows than Rapid Reload, IIRC. That said, I would consider skipping Completionist for Insightful Reflexes, depending on whether you need the extra boost to Reflex saves.

You don't mention epic feats, but usually they will be Improved Sneak Attack, Combat Archery, and Overwhelming Critical. With great xbows, you gain 30% Ranged Alacrity from tier-5 Mechanic so you don't need Blinding Speed; use your lvl 30 epic feat for whatever you want.

By the way, the plan is to use a great crossbow. But since I am here asking questions (and since my third Shadar Kai life will likely be a 2 rogue/18 artificer) which feat would you give up when using a repeating crossbow?

None: arties get Rapid Reload free and 4 bonus feats by lvl 16 (pure arty gets a fifth @ lvl 20). If anything your issue will be figuring out what to do with those last couple of arty feats.

BTW, for an SDK arty life, I would consider SDK arty 12 / ftr 6 / rog 2 instead; that lets you take Strike w/No Thought from Kensei for +1 crit multiplier to go with tier-5 Battle Engineer (+1 crit range, +20 Ranged Power, +10% runspeed). APs could be an issue, though, particularly if you were planning on going deep into Renegade MM.

[Tuxedoman96]

Point Blank Shot
Rapid Shot
Rapid Reload
Precision
Precise Shot
Imp Critical
Imp Precise Shot

I would say that Imp Precise Shot is probably not as helpful if you are running by yourself or having trouble lining monsters up for your shots. Precise shot is still important for shooting past monsters that are in the way.

[erethizon]

Regarding your seven heroic feats, what epic feats are you taking? You have to go to all the way to 30 for an iconic reincarnation anyway, and maybe one of your epic feats is the one that doesn't make the cut.

All the guides seem to agree to take Overwhelming Critical, Combat Archery, and Improved Sneak Attack at levels 21, 24, and 27. Doubleshot seems to be the choice for level 28. Level 26 has more options but it is a limited list of feats anyway I think.

I appreciate all the suggestions so far that everyone has mentioned. It definitely looks like there are some good ideas for my Arti past life, but the first two need to be rogue past lives (since I want to get those over with for triple heroic completionist). When it comes to Mechanic Rogues is there good reason to go to level 20 as a Rogue or is it better to splash the two levels of Arti (keeping in mind I want to use a Great Crossbow for my Rogue lives)? I was looking for suggestions of what feats to give up and got suggestions about being part Arti instead. Is that just what Mechanic Rogues do normally?

[Sunnie]

My experience, from playing a pure rogue the previous life and an 18/2 split with arti this life, is that splashing two levels of artificer is somewhat stronger. You get Rapid Reload for free which allowed me to fit in Completionist and Insightful Reflexes, you also get Magical Training to help power KtA and Cocoon, I'd say damage-wise runearms are pretty much a wash vs the additional sneak attack die you get for rogue 19 but they do give you another piece of equipment to fit effects on and if you have one with exploding shot breaking doors and root walls is more convenient. Artis also get access to repeaters immediately, rogues have to wait until they can take the cores in Mechanic. By level 12 you'll want to mostly switch to GXBows, though.

The only downside is that taking 2 arti slows down your BAB progression so you can't take all feats as soon as you could if you stayed pure.

In short, 2 Artificer provides some power and a lot of convenience.

[EllisDee37]

When it comes to Mechanic Rogues is there good reason to go to level 20 as a Rogue or is it better to splash the two levels of Arti (keeping in mind I want to use a Great Crossbow for my Rogue lives)?

I'd go with unbongwah's advice and skip Rapid Shot if you really want to take completionist. Those epic feats look better than rapid shot, and you're reincarnating at 30 so the level 30 feat slot may as well not even exist.

Also, even though you'll need base 21 dex for Combat Archery (from build points, levelup and tomes; completionist, enhancements and gear don't count) giving you a decent dexterity, I agree with unbongwah that you really kind of want Insightful Reflexes on an int build. What I might do is take completionist at level 3, then exchange it for insightful reflexes once you hit 20 using your free feat exchange. By the time you reach epics, the bonus of completionist will start to get lost in the shuffle by the massive power jump in epics.

I was looking for suggestions of what feats to give up and got suggestions about being part Arti instead. Is that just what Mechanic Rogues do normally?

You also asked about an artie build, so that's why a lot of responses mentioned that. As for what's commonly done, a /2 artie splash is popular but not a given. The splash means you miss out on the mechanic capstone, which is underwhelming but still decent: +2 dex/int, +2 damage w/great crossbows, +2 sneak dice. There's also a nice action boost clickie with self-healing included, but with a 3-minute cooldown.

Yeah, I dunno, now that I type out that capstone I think I might like 18/2 better. You'd also get an extra feat since it grants Rapid Reload for free, meaning you still skip Rapid Shot but get to keep both completionist and insightful reflexes. Plus you'd get to use runearms.

[unbongwah]

When it comes to Mechanic Rogues is there good reason to go to level 20 as a Rogue or is it better to splash the two levels of Arti (keeping in mind I want to use a Great Crossbow for my Rogue lives)?

Mechanic capstone is okay but is also the weakest of the rogue caps, IMO. Arty 2 grants free Rapid Reload, free Magical Training / Echoes of Power, Runearms (mostly for imbues), and access to low-tier arty tree enhancements (e.g., +10 heal amp from RMM for 2 APs). Overall the pros of splashing outweigh the cons, IMO.

[Emerge2012]

Rogue10/ftr6/arti4 all day. You'll get all the feats you want and then some, with the addition of monster dps.

[erethizon]

Rogue10/ftr6/arti4 all day. You'll get all the feats you want and then some, with the addition of monster dps.

It is something to consider. I'm finishing up my 19th life on this character tonight (plus a couple of lives I've done on an alt) and I've never once played a multiclass character. I guess now is the time. I was going to just do the two levels of arti, but I am open to other options (though I do want to stick with a mechanic that is an excellent trapper in spite of the fact I don't have any insightful trapping gear).

[kage1822]

just trying to think of something to synergize with my rogue mechanic as a F2P, having only the basic free classes and races... so maybe fighter with Kensei for some extra feats? Or just pure rogue all down the mechanic tree. In any case, what race would be best? Thinking Human or Elf.

[unbongwah]

just trying to think of something to synergize with my rogue mechanic as a F2P, having only the basic free classes and races... so maybe fighter with Kensei for some extra feats? Or just pure rogue all down the mechanic tree. In any case, what race would be best? Thinking Human or Elf.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ild-Repository

There are several Mechanic builds in the rogue section, some of which are aimed at F2P first-lifers. I also keep meaning to update my Mechassin thread to be newbie-friendly but I always procrastinate so...

[kage1822]

I tried to make my own variant using the character planner, mine is only a rogue/fighter

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 4.37.105
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Chaotic Neutral Human Female
(4 Fighter \ 16 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 216
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 15
Will: 9

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             14                    16
Dexterity            16                    18
Constitution         14                    15
Intelligence         12                    14
Wisdom               10                    11
Charisma              8                     8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               4                    28.5
Bluff                 0                     1
Concentration         0                     7
Diplomacy             0                     1
Disable Device        4                    30
Haggle                4                    23.5
Heal                  0                     2
Hide                  4                    14
Intimidate            0                     1
Jump                  0                    14
Listen                4                     9
Move Silently         4                    14
Open Lock             4                    32
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     7
Search                4                    29
Spellcraft            0                     4
Spot                  4                    28
Swim                  0                    10
Tumble                n/a                  23
Use Magic Device      4                    20

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Human Bonus) Point Blank Shot
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Arbalester (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Sharpshooter (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Lacerating Shots (Rank 1)


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Rapid Reload
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Crossbows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Crossbows (Rank 1)


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Precise Shot
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Lacerating Shots (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Lacerating Shots (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Thunderstone (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Mechanics (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Awareness (Rank 1)


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 2)


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Thunderstone (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Mechanics (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Awareness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Crossbows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Contemplation (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Contemplation (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Contemplation (Rank 3)


Level 7 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Thunderstone (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Mechanics (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Awareness (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Critical Mastery (Rank 1)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Ranged Weapons
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Critical Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Critical Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Crossbows (Rank 1)


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Precision
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Sharpshooter (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Improved Traps (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 1)


Level 10 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Shattering Shot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Shattering Shot (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Wisdom (Rank 1)


Level 11 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Improved Traps (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Improved Traps (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 3)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Sharpshooter (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Wracking Shot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Shattering Shot (Rank 3)


Level 13 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Ooze Flask (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Use Magical Device (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Intelligence (Rank 1)


Level 14 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Wracking Shot (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Wracking Shot (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Ooze Flask (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Use Magical Device (Rank 2)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Rapid Shot
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Ooze Flask (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Use Magical Device (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Sharpshooter (Rank 1)


Level 16 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Fletching (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Fletching (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Fletching (Rank 3)


Level 17 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Sharpshooter (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Rapid Fire (Rank 1)


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Shot on the Run
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Sniper (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Mechanical Reloader (Rank 1)


Level 19 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Rapid Fire (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Time Bomb (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Time Bomb (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Time Bomb (Rank 3)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Tanglefoot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Targeting Sights (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Improved Detection (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Rapid Fire (Rank 3)

[C-Dog]

I tried to make my own variant using the character planner, mine is only a rogue/fighter

Level 20 Chaotic Neutral Human Female
(4 Fighter \ 16 Rogue)

DDO is not D&D, at least not any edition you've ever played.

IN D&D, "more Feats" are usually better - and also in DDO, but NOT at the loss of enhancements. And by splashing more than 2 levels of non-rogue, you are missing out on Rog 18 enhancements.

o http://ddowiki.com/page/Mechanic_enh...Core_abilities

So make sure the enhancements you get from Ftr 4 are worth it.


Also, there is no reason to be Chaotic (except Role Play purposes) - True Neutral, unless you have a very specific reason to do otherwise.

(e.g. a Ring of the Ancestors, etc.)

[kage1822]

DDO is not D&D, at least not any edition you've ever played.

IN D&D, "more Feats" are usually better - and also in DDO, but NOT at the loss of enhancements. And by splashing more than 2 levels of non-rogue, you are missing out on Rog 18 enhancements.

o http://ddowiki.com/page/Mechanic_enh...Core_abilities

So make sure the enhancements you get from Ftr 4 are worth it.


Also, there is no reason to be Chaotic (except Role Play purposes) - True Neutral, unless you have a very specific reason to do otherwise.

(e.g. a Ring of the Ancestors, etc.)

4Fighter is needed for specialization which in turn is needed for Kensei's Tier 3 weapon group specialization

i've always hated true neutral... to me true neutral is an in animate object, but D&D calls it keeping the balance which also I don't like, for instance if there's a battle against a large group, but if that group got widdled down to almost nothing, a true neutral which is supposed to keep the balance would change sides as the scales tipped the other way

[unbongwah]

4Fighter is needed for specialization which in turn is needed for Kensei's Tier 3 weapon group specialization

That isn't worth giving up the crit bonus from Expert Builder (level 18 Mechanic enhancement), which is why you see so many rogue 18+ xbow builds. If you don't want pure rogue and don't have Artificer, something like rogue 13 / fighter 6 / <splash> 1 is a reasonable alternative so you can take Strike with no Thought from Kensei.

Also because of your low base DEX and lack of tomes you can't take some important DPS feats: Improved Precise Shot in heroics (req's base DEX 19); Combat Archery and Improved Sneak Attack in epics (DEX 21).

[kage1822]

I went back and redid my base stats as

STR: 8
DEX: 18
CON: 14
INT: 14
WIS: 8
CHA: 10

in DDO is weapon specialization a non-essential feat?