how early do you actually need immunities and deathblock?

[GrrArgh]

Hello, Stormreach and neighboring realities! LoL. I haven't posted in forever and honestly haven't lurked the forums in a long time either. My game time has been on and off for the past few years with no reliably predictable pattern due to scads of real life stuff, but greetings aside, my forum/google/wiki-fu must have gotten weak, because I can't find a couple simple answers I KNOW have to be out there somewhere......so here goes, and thanks in advance for either your answers, or pointing me towards where I can find them....

I'm looking into crafting up a few generic leveling gearsets. I'm fairly experienced about knowing what mods I want and what mods I don't from character to character and I have recently (well, I read it much earlier this year, but anything I've read since the beginning of the year is still recent in my book) quite enjoyed reading through EliisDee37's Melee Gearset thread to get a quick run-up-to-speed on the new Cannith Crafting. I was maxed and enjoyed well enough the old version, so the example he has come up with for an all purpose scheme is quite easy to use as a platform for any changes I care to make. I quite agree with a lot of his gear selections, and my first bout with the new crafting was to pretty much duplicate his EPIC layout (ML23-style as per my choice) with the exceptions that I have my Smoke in the cloak slot and wanted to keep my Master's Gift socketed fully-upgraded Level 20 Ring of the Stalker as a permanently worn item as well. It called for a lot of twisting and turning but it all came out nicely in the end.

All that being said (and I know I type too much, I'm pretty quiet in real life and pretty verbose - and even rambling - when it comes to writing, forgive me), I am now looking to throw together some Heroic leveling gear to replace my old-cannith crafted bits. And I'm planning on using augments to cover the Fear Immunity, Blindness Immunity and Deathblock when crafting gear at ML8 (and ML12 for deathblock) to allow more gear mods. But here's the question I have (finally):

Prior to those levels I can craft those defenses onto otherwise vacant item slots - but how early should I even bother? I'm not asking this from a personal opinion stance, I don't care how early you think you REALLY need them or how much you're willing to tough it out (or rely on pots/wands/party members because crafting that stuff onto gear that's going to be outgrown so fast is silly (to you). What I am asking is more about straight game data......

1) When is the first time you could possibly get hit with blindness in the game? Don't really need it al all before then, right? Same goes for,
2) When is the first time Fear Immunity will do you any good, or
3) Deathblock, or not that I'm planning on it as a constant piece, but maybe a quest specific swap item,
4) Disease or Poison Immunity?

And if you feel like elaborating on your opinion on when you think starting to use these mods is actually practical, go ahead, I'm all ears on that count, too......however the main thrust of this is discovering when the first instances of these types of attacks currently occur without too much more effort on my part - my time is still at more of a premium than I'd like these days and I'd rather be in game playing. I've already spent more time searching than I wanted to...::laughter::

Thanks once again for your responses! Live long and loot hard!

[Qhualor]

1. cant recall how early mobs start trying to blind you. first time I start noticing it is in the teen levels. I think there are a few mobs that can around level 8, but don't quote me. personally I just carry blindness pots, but rarely use them. unless like last life I forgot to put them in my backpack and was blinded more times than I ever had last life.

2. I know in level 4 quests mobs start casting fear. could be level 3 quests.

3. the last quest in the level 4 Sharn Syndicate chain the caster can neg level you. that's the earliest I am aware of.

4. poison I believe can start as early as level 1 in Korthos. some spiders in some quests. its not until the level 2 quests in the Harbor I start to see poison. disease can start at level 3ish from undead.

I would say not to worry too much about immunities and deathblock until level 3 minimum, but I think its more noticeable around level 4 quests. Deathblock isn't something I wear until I can slot the Silver Flame Necklace at level 11 and never really wished I had one until then. maybe Necro 1 is a good place to care about slotting it. I do make sure to have the DW clicky from Tangleroot for that Sharn quest though.

[GrrArgh]

I do make sure to have the DW clicky from Tangleroot for that Sharn quest though.

Yep, just recently replaced my ever-present pair of two TR goggle clickies with a stack of DW potions from Cleric Commendation turn-ins in Eveningstar. Better duration, and my comms were just stacking up anyways.

Thanks for the reply though, it'll give me a couple level ranges to start researching. I'm not even super keen on making/needing items for those early levels (I may do it anyway, mind, I promise nothing and time will tell).....I just want to know what they are.

If this thread doesn't get any more definitive answers, I'll try to eventually repost with what I find out. Because I will. Once I get curious about errata and miscellaneous minor datapoints....well.....I've climbed entire chains of command to find out what one poorly written vague sentence was really supposed to mean before. ::laugh:: And felt better for knowing afterwards.

[EllisDee37]

Blindness: 3
The caster at the top of the ramp in Swiped Signet (the large open area) casts blindness on you, so level 3 quests can start throwing blindness. You can carry remove blindness potions starting at level 1, though, so it's really just a matter of how early you choose to equip it. Pro tip: Try to slot blindness immunity in a piece of gear you never swap out. If there is any reason at all to swap it out, like it's on your haggle item, or goggles (deathward clickie) or necklace (sf necklace for beholders) or whatever, you should continue to carry remove blindness pots just in case you forget to swap back. Only if you never ever remove the gear with the augment can you trash the potions.

Fear: 2
Kobolds in the harbor cast fear, so as early as level 2 quests. Fear is also a favorite mob tactic in the desert, particularly ADQ1.

Deathblock: 8 / 10
Instakills first come at you from beholders, which start in Caverns of Korromar (level 8), Threnal (level 9?) and VON3 (level 9). However, you might be using a SF necklace as a swap for beholder fights, meaning it wouldn't be needed as part of your normal gear. Drow Scorrow start casting Slay Living at 10 in Tempest Spine, usually immediately after casting Dispel, meaning that flesh render visors are no help. So in a perfect world, you want deathblock as a permanent fixture on your gear by 10. There are also vorpal attacks in the demon quest in the desert (Purge the Fallen Shrine) which is level 11. They don't dispel, though, so you can just use visors for that.

Negative Levels: 5
One of the end bosses in Partycrashers casts negative levels, as well as some of the wight casters in Necropolis Part 1, so quest level 5. You didn't ask because there is no "immune to negative level" gear, but figured you might be interested. It's also a favorite tactic in Lordsmarch.

Poison / Disease: Ignore
Ever since they removed poison and disease immunity with MotU, you can only really bolster your saves against them. But they're not immediate problems in that the effects take a while to become meaningful. Just carry potions for poison neutralization and remove disease and don't ever bother slotting any anti-poison or disease gear. Note: Medusa poison is fatal, but has a fairly long countdown that's shown in your buff bar. Be sure to drink a pot if a medusa ever poisons you! (First appear in Lordsmarch.)

Exception: Proof Against Poison does grant immunity to regular poison, like in poison traps during early levels. (eg: Redfang, Sunken Sewer, Waterworks, etc...) Poison traps are scaled the same as fire/blade/etc... traps, but ship buffs and PRR don't reduce their damage so you get the full blast, which can be fatal. If you can swing natural poison immunity in early levels as a swap item, definitely do.

[Drecas]

The casters in Phiarlan Carnival pack can cast Phantasmal Killer, so quest level 7+ onwards have deathblock at the ready.

[Selvera]

My own list is something along these lines:

Blindness: The first enemy who really blinds you effectively in a quest I often run is the Inevitable at the end of VoN 3; level 8 quest. However pots of blindness removal are a good idea for quests that I might not be thinking of before level 8.

Fear: Is everywhere, it's one of the most common/annoying enemy tactics through the game. A good will save is recommended, and when you can get greater heroism, do (thus mostly invalidating the need for a good will save).

Deathblock: The first beholder I can think of is from Caverns of Korromar (level 8), but by level 10 death effects are fairly common in many quests.

Poison/desease: Ignore. First off; these largely target fortitude; which you want to keep as a high save for many reasons; two of the top reasons being disintegrate and because constitution gives both HP and fortitude. Secondly, you should carry pots to cure them; and most aren't that dangerous and don't do anything at the outset.

Heavy Fortification: Level 10 is when you really start needing heavy fort; there are a number of quests with enemies wielding heavy picks; which are x4 damage on critical hit; so you don't want to chance taking that much spike damage. It is also fairly easy to work into a build starting at level 10 (for first lifers) or level 8 (for TR's).

[SirValentine]

1) When is the first time you could possibly get hit with blindness in the game? Don't really need it al all before then, right? Same goes for,
...
4) Disease or Poison Immunity?

Never bother w. gear for them. Potions, potions, and potions at lower levels. Or just Heal scrolls later on.

2) When is the first time Fear Immunity will do you any good, or

Epic Desecrated Temple of Vol? I only care when enemies cast Dispel and Fear. Otherwise, GH scrolls from level 9 onward give immunity. Never really noticed an issue with Fear at low levels.

3) Deathblock, or not that I'm planning on it as a constant piece, but maybe a quest specific swap item,

Not sure the very first times you need it, but I don't carry a Deathblock swap item until level 9, though eventually I find a place to slot it full-time.

[Enoach]

Just a note, immunities and deathblock and "how early" will also see adjustments based on your builds "saves" and spell resistance. For some this will mean needing these earlier and others later.

Spell Resistance is something that is often overlooked at lower levels but it also covers a wide range of spell issues. More people should consider spell resistance in the same way we consider blur for its 20% physical damage reduction.

[MeliCat]

1) When is the first time you could possibly get hit with blindness in the game? Don't really need it al all before then, right? Same goes for,
2) When is the first time Fear Immunity will do you any good, or
3) Deathblock, or not that I'm planning on it as a constant piece, but maybe a quest specific swap item,
4) Disease or Poison Immunity?

Hmmm. I think ... all of those things at one time or another have led to my death around the harbour actually Maybe not deathblock ... but that comes soon after.

As a result (and many painful times of death and "the walk of shame" (TM ) - we're talking from Korthos...) I do the following
1) Harbour or that marketplace one whose quest giver is at the tavern under the bank - carry blindness removal pots. I think I need about 10 per life - 3 I might actually use, 7 to be broken by random game breakages chances. Slot/craft it whenever.
2) Harbour ... sigh. Also you can get short term +4 buff against this by fear removal pots if you are about to go into a bit where you know it's likely the mobs will do something like fear. Increasing will saves can be good for other things too like being dazed and stuff. Even if you're not immune, you are more likely to make your saves at the ongoing checks sooner if you've got a higher save.
3) Harbour or maybe marketplace? I know the first time I usually notice this (as I'm too slack to slot it often) is Tempest Spine when I get fingered - because the &**^*(% in there do *dispel* and THEN they do slay living. You know about the deathward clickies from Splinterskull are ml 5. Usually I just use these all the way through and if deathblock is on gear well and good. It's not until I do something like Deathwyrm (where she dispels deathward) that I make sure it's slotted. Or if I'm actually trying with my gear I'll remember (or maybe not).
4) I tend to have stacks of pots of disease and poison immunity as these are short term effects that I regularly need to apply all the way through. Increasing resistances generally (in this case fort ) is good for lots of things (so many saves...) but that removal by a pot I apply as needed (even better buy the non bound to character ones out and help your group members ) . Also the heal spell will do that same removal (UMD scrolling or a cleric in the party). Good to have stacks of disease around for things like mummy rot where you drink a remove curse then a remove disease to get rid of it. So no I don't slot it. If I had a spare augment space right at the end of all my gearing I probably would though (although I almost never get there) - or if I am regularly doing content where chugging a pot is a pain and for some reason my fort saves are just not cutting it. The most common type of pot we drink is curse removal though.

My 2c ...

edit: from level 9 I tend to wear Greater Heroism - which grants immunity to fear - from the planar gird clickie out of Xorian Cipher. So don't think about it after that point.

edit 2: heavy fort level 8 as that is the earliest I can slot it in a blue augment spot (and it comes on gear too). Don't think about fort again until epics.

[OfElectricMen]

Heavy Fortification: Level 10 is when you really start needing heavy fort

Maybe if you're only running on Normal difficulties. If you're running Elite or Reaper, you need all the fortification you can get as soon as you can get it. I equip heavy at level 7 (via a ring crafted in the old crafting system).

I try to slot Fear immunity as soon as I can. I've got a ML 8 BtA cloak with blindness and fear immunity augments slotted. Before then, I use whatever I can find.

I try to have deathblock available at least by level 8, because I like to go do SRE in the demon sands, and some of the more powerful mummies out there (in addition to having a fear effect) will straight up slay living your behind.

Poison/Disease Immunity: I just carry stacks of neutralize poison and remove curse pots. If my spacing for gear is tight enough that I can't use my aforementioned cloak, I'll also carry a stack of remove blindness pots.

[QuantumFX]

1) When is the first time you could possibly get hit with blindness in the game?
Level 2. Kobold Shamen cast the Blindness spell. But, I use an augment for this rather than a cannith slot.

2) When is the first time Fear Immunity will do you any good
I slot it on non-paladin/non-warlocks at level 8 mainly due to Thraak Hounds. Why? Because their buddies tend to dispel my Death Ward clickies.

3) Deathblock, or not that I'm planning on it as a constant piece, but maybe a quest specific swap item,
On fleshies, I leave my neck slot hot swappable for the various Silver Flame necklace/talisman. This is mainly Beholder insurance as they do finger and enervate. Also, IMO, the Eye of the Beholder gets discharged too easily thanks to the eye beams that I can save against.

4) Disease or Poison Immunity?
Only on forged. Since the poison damage icons are useless, and don't list the save DC, it’s stupid to wait for a saving throw over just drinking a potion.

[Selvera]

Maybe if you're only running on Normal difficulties. If you're running Elite or Reaper, you need all the fortification you can get as soon as you can get it. I equip heavy at level 7 (via a ring crafted in the old crafting system).

I run reaper. "Need all the fortification you can get as soon as you can get it" sounds to me like you don't quite understand what it does. Fortification is a percent chance that you negate a critical hit or a sneak attack. Therefore, any fortification over 100% is completely wasted on enemies who do not bypass fortification. There are only a small subset of enemies in the game which can bypass fortification (rogue type enemies and some types of champions), and of those, the fortification bypass granted by champions automatically ignore all fortification, so it doesn't matter how much you have against them.

I can thus conclude that any fortification gained when you have over 100% is much less valuable then any fortification gained when you have less then 100%.

As for negating a critical hit; enemies typically do not have x5, x6 or higher critical multipliers. Typically they'll have x2 or x3 critical multipliers; and at levels below 10 on any difficulty R3 or below, I can easily survive 3 hits from an enemy. (Not including some spells).
Negating sneak attack can typically be done by targeting/attacking the rogue type enemy.

As for what I do; typically I run 25% fortification starting at level 1; then at level 8 I put in a augment of heavy fortification (100%) in my gear and call that good, pretty much forever. In R3 or above at cap, you really don't want to get crit by enemies, but 120% or so which you'll end up with is enough to negate everything except rogue type enemies.