TWF Ranger/rogue multiclass questions

[Derran]

Hey guys,

Me and my mate decided to try out DDO for the first time because we couldnt get NWN work on hamachi for some reason (it worked a year ago) and since he's stolen my main class (fighter) i decided to make a dual wield Human Ranger that can spot and remove traps.

My idea is to go 18/1/1 Ranger/Rogue/Fighter or 16/4 Ranger/Rogue.
Im a bit undecided for feats and stats though. Initially I thought going 16/16/14/8/12/8 str/dex/con/int/wis/cha to have good survivability but then it will be more dificult to find traps, so I thought maybe lower dex (since my mate will be tankink anyways) to get int up as well so that i wont get a negative modifier. For Feats im really clueless, thought i'd start with passage dragonmark and thoughness and after that khopesh special or weapon finesse and all those dmg modifiers.

We mainly just wanna play casual pve (albeit we do wanna tackle down heroic/elite dungeons) so any help regarding this build would be greatly appreciated.

[unbongwah]

Welcome to DDO.

The Tempest Trapmonkey is an oldie-but-goodie which never goes out of style.

[Derran]

Welcome to DDO.

The Tempest Trapmonkey is an oldie-but-goodie which never goes out of style.

Yeah I've seen it, I actually (unlike others I assume haha) used the search function before I posted I just didnt really like it to be honest. I dont really want to go ranged unless I have points to spare. I dont want to end up with an average fighter and mediocre archer. That said I never played Ranger before in DND so that might not be the case at all.

edit: Meh, I decided to follow it to a point regardless, since we're only doing casual pve anyways it probably wont affect me much. Thanks for the reply!

[unbongwah]

You can ignore / skip the ranged feats entirely if you want to fight 100% melee. Just move up Dodge+Mobility to where ED37 takes PBS+IC:Ranged. You can also swap ftr splash for barb if you don't need the extra feat, which adds +10% runspeed that stacks with both Expeditious Retreat and Tempest Sprint Boost. Although I recommend playing with Manyshot before you decide that archery is worthless even on a Tempest.

[C-Dog]

Yes, welcome!

First, leave your pre-conceptions from D&D behind - DDO has the same "feel" and atmosphere, but the rules (esp character creation) are NOT D&D. For example, the best "melee" build is not a pure fighter, and you don't have to be pure Rogue to be a great Trapper.

Similarly, dump Wisdom to 8 - you'll find a +3 Wisdom item along the way, and that's all you need to start casting spells. (Also, joining a Guild will get you a "Guild Buff" that adds +2 to Wisdom (and all other stats) - and you're almost home right there.)

I dont really want to go ranged unless I have points to spare. I dont want to end up with an average fighter and mediocre archer.

There is nothing "average" about the Tempest as a melee character - solid build. No 1st-life character will lead the kill count (except w/ a group of other 1st-lifers), but you'll be contributing more than your share, np.

With the exception of the 2 feats taken at Level 1 & 12, the Tempest Trapmonkey is not trying to be "ranged". Any Ranger will have the default 2WF and Ranged Feats from class, so whichever way you go, the other is free gravy.

(For comparison, this is the "ranged" version: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5793839)

Also, the fact that a 100% melee focused Ranger still ends up with superior Ranged ability is a good thing. There are several points in diff quests where you must range a target to proceed - that's a great thing to have in your back pocket.


So - if you want to really pump the melee DPS, maybe something like this...

Tembarian Trapmonkey
18/1/1 Ranger/Barbarian/Rogue
True Neutral Human
(Free to Play, New Player friendly)


Level Order

1. Rogue . . . . . 6. Ranger. . . . .11. Ranger. . . . .16. Ranger
2. Ranger . . . . .7. Ranger . . . . 12. Ranger . . . . 17. Ranger
3. Ranger . . . . .8. Ranger . . . . 13. Ranger . . . . 18. Ranger
4. Barbarian . . . 9. Ranger. . . . .14. Ranger. . . . .19. Ranger
5. Ranger . . . . 10. Ranger . . . . 15. Ranger . . . . 20. Ranger


Stats
. . . . . . . .28pt . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 16. . . .4: STR
Dexterity . . . 14. . . .8: STR
Constitution. . 14. . . 12: STR
Intelligence. . 14. . . 16: STR
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . 20: STR
Charisma. . . . .8. . .

(For 32 pt builds, bump Str to 17, throw the last point into Wisdom 9.)

Skills
. . . . .Rg Rn Rn Bn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn
. . . . . 1 .2 .3 .4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Concent . 2 .2 .2 . . 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Disable . 4 .1 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Search. . 4 .1 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Spot. . . 4 .1 .1 . . 1. 1. 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
UMD . . . 4 .½ .½ . . . .1 .½ .2 .1½ 1½ 1 .1½ 1½ 1½ 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Heal. . . 2 . . . . . 1. 2. . . . 1. . .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .16
Open Lo . 4 .1 .1 . . 1. . .1 . . . .½ .½ . . . . . ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. 12
Jump. . . 4 . . . .3. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .7
Haggle. . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Swim. . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .3
Tumble. . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .40 .9 .9 .7. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9
. . . . .44 .9 .9 .7. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9

Feats

.1. . . . : Power Attack
.1 Human. : Least Dragonmark: Passage
.2 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Undead
.3. . . . : Precision
.6. . . . : Exotic Weapon: Khopesh
.7 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Construct
.9. . . . : Improved Critical: Slashing
12. . . . : Dodge
12 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Giant
15. . . . : Empower Healing Spell
17 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
18. . . . : Extend Spell


Spells

Ranger

1. Jump, Ram's Might, Merfolk's Blessing, Resist Energy
2. Protection from Energy, Cure Light Wounds, Barkskin
3. Cure Moderate Wounds, Remove Disease
4. Cure Serious Wounds, Freedom of Movement

Enhancements (78/80 AP)

Tempest (41 AP)

• Shield of Whirling Steel, Tempest, Graceful Death, Deflect Arrows, Whirlwind
  1. Improved Reaction III, Whirling Blades
  2. Improved Parry III, Whirling Blades, Sprint Boost I
  3. Storm Dancer, Whirling Blades, Strength
  4. Storm Tempest, The Growing Storm III, Whirling Blades, Strength
  5. Dual Perfection, Cuts: A Thousand Cuts III, Whirling Blades, Dance of Death III

Deepwood Stalker (25 AP)

• Far Shot, Sneak Attack
  1. Increased Empathy III, Versatile Empathy II
  2. Survivalist, Skill Boost III
  3. Survivalist, Thrill of the Hunt III, Favored Hunter II
  4. Survivalist, Killer III

Human (8 AP)

• Damage Boost, Strength
  1. Dragonmark Focus: Orien I, Improved Recovery
  2. Lesser Dragonmark: Dimension Door

Ravager (4 AP)

• Furious Rage
  1. Barbarian Power Attack III

Leveling Guide

1. Hum0 Damage Boost; Hum1 Improved Recovery; Hum1 Dragonmark Focus: Orien I
2. DS0 Far Shot; DS1 Tendon Cut I; (Bank 2 AP)
3. (Bank 6 AP)
4. Hum0 Strength; Rav0 Furious Rage; Rav1 Barbarian Power Attack I, II, III
5. ...etc*...

(* See the original here; note that the early AP allocation dives heavily into the Human tree for early levels (to pump Skill bonuses), while the final AP spread is for late game and DPS once the Ranger abilities kick in. It's cheap to re-set AP in this way.)

Notes:

Only 78 AP allocated - dealer's choice for the last 2. Consider Human skill bonus, either Awareness or OL/DD, if you're having trouble there.

Use a big 2-hand weapon for the first few levels - a Great Axe, Grt Sword, or even Great Club is awesome w/ Power Attack for early levels. Once you get some of the 2WF Feats/Abilities/Enhancements (and a decent pair of weapons), ~then~ go 2WF.

(The 6 AP that get banked become 18 Str & +3 to damage at Level 4. No other trees really help this much this fast, esp since you're pro'ly not dual wielding yet.)

Watch for Khopeshes early (haunt the Auction House!) - if you find 2 you like before Level 3, swap EW proficiency w/ Precision, np.

The Barb splash gives you a faster toon - +10% may not seem a big deal now, but it grows on you, trust us. (Fighter would only get you some Feats a bit earlier - maybe add Cleave, tho' I' can't say from experience how well Cleave works w/ Ranger's Dance of Death etc.)

W/ decent at-level gear, you don't need more Open Lock than that imo. If you fail, you try again until you roll well, no loss except time. Adjust if you want. Meanwhile, UMD can be delayed until you get the ranks to do something with it.

Trusting to Concentration over Quicken Spell is debatable, but should be fine. Change if you want. Sim w/ Extend spell, which is pure Quality-of-Life choice - take anything that speaks to you by then (Toughness?), just easier on those longer end-game quests.


(And btw - If your buddy hasn't done so, make sure he patterns his build off of something tried-and-true. In DDO, the various Enhancement Trees can be very confusing, and it's VERY easy to paint yourself into a dead-end corner, or just fake a build that starts strong but fails around Level 8-12 or so. Can't just pattern it off "my favorite D&D character" and expect it to all work out. VERY different games.)

[Majrpayne]

I was thinking my next life would be str-based TWF, similar to OP, maybe 18/1/1 Rgr/Ftr/Rog (maybe deeper dive into Ftr for more feats, less focus on traps). I wasn't sure how the TWF feats stacked up so last night I rolled a new toon at level 4 just to test it out. I also decided to go Aasimar. A few questions:

1) I liked 'Fallen' Aasimar for STR buff, better self-healing, both from the healing hands & some better WIS, and I also liked the Aasimar tree better than Human for healing amp, i.e. the 'other' stuff in the Aasimar tree looked better than human for the same hamp benefit. Of course, lose a feat and some skill points going Aasimar. Any other opinions on Aasimar vs. human for a Ranger?

2) Aasimar specific - I didn't put points into WIS, so WIS was 10 with the Aasimar bonus. "Wis to low" to use healing hands. Not seeing a WIS requirement in the Wiki, anyone know what it is?

3) Where are the wings? I activated the bond (kneel down & draw on the ground animation) but no wings. Is this only when you activate the temp buff from the enhancement tree?

thanks!

[unbongwah]

2) Aasimar specific - I didn't put points into WIS, so WIS was 10 with the Aasimar bonus. "Wis to low" to use healing hands. Not seeing a WIS requirement in the Wiki, anyone know what it is?

"Racial Lay On Hands (Healing Hands). Start with one charge per rest, gain more in tree. Can only be used while your Bond Feat is active. (10+Character Level) * WIS Mod = HP gained."

WIS 10 means your WIS mod is zero. "Zero times anything" is what, class? Be grateful it prevents you from wasting a charge!

3) Where are the wings? I activated the bond (kneel down & draw on the ground animation) but no wings. Is this only when you activate the temp buff from the enhancement tree?

I think that's correct. I don't see any mention of wings in the Ascendant Bond description, only for Divine Purpose. And we've had a number of threads angsting over the lack of permanent Aasimar wings.

[Gerril]

Tembarian Trapmonkey

Feats
.1. . . . : Power Attack
.1 Human. : Least Dragonmark: Passage
.2 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Undead
.3. . . . : Precision

I know this is an old but I'm kind of following it now as a fairly new player to DDO. Why take both Power Attack and Precision Stance? You don't need either to obtain later feats and they can't be used together, so it seems a feat that could be used elsewhere?

[Mindos]

I know this is an old but I'm kind of following it now as a fairly new player to DDO. Why take both Power Attack and Precision Stance? You don't need either to obtain later feats and they can't be used together, so it seems a feat that could be used elsewhere?

Use a big 2-hand weapon for the first few levels - a Great Axe, Grt Sword, or even Great Club is awesome w/ Power Attack for early levels. Once you get some of the 2WF Feats/Abilities/Enhancements (and a decent pair of weapons), ~then~ go 2WF.

You can swap out power attack later, but at first the damage bonus with two handed fighting is killing faster.

[EllisDee37]

Yeah I've seen it, I actually (unlike others I assume haha) used the search function before I posted I just didnt really like it to be honest. I dont really want to go ranged unless I have points to spare. I dont want to end up with an average fighter and mediocre archer. That said I never played Ranger before in DND so that might not be the case at all.

Rangers get most of their melee (and ranged!) feats auto-granted by ranger levels, so there aren't many must-have feats to take for either style.

If you drop the ranged feats entirely, you'll find that there aren't enough melee feats to fill the open slots so you start looking around at metamagic and defensive feats. Reasonable people can disagree, but for my money, increasing your ranged dps is the best value for those feats.