Is my Cleric Broken Beyond Repair?

[kronovan]

Hello everyone,

I was just able to recover my Cleric toon that I played back in the day when I was a subscriber - some time around 2006/07. I've since played a few f2p toons , but not a cleric. A few things left a bad taste in my mouth about playing one, but I can't remember exactly they were. TBH though, the main reason was that I lacked experience with D&D 3e, with really only the Nevewinter Nights 1 videogame as my experience at the time with the system. I've since played & DM'd the Pathfinder Tabletop and other D20-based RPGs, so I'm a bit more confident and comfortable with the system which is somewhat reflected in the Elven lvl 8 Paladin of the Undying court that I rolled up in 2016.

I'm wondering if my cleric is even salvageable and if so, what might be some things to change. Back in the day when I played that toon there wasn't even enhancements and IIRC the level cap at the time was 12. My clerics also multiclassed with 1 level of Fighter, which IIRC I did to get some Jump and Swim skill.

Any feedback or suggestions as to whether I can make my Cleric viable or should just let them continue to slumber in their grave, would be much appreciated. And if it helps, I have a enough XP to level up. The biggest concern I have is the low CHA, which is factored into Turn Undead. Some of the abilities, skills and gear makes me chuckle, but I believe it was more of a challenge back then - especially for such a clueless player. I mean...who was I fooling that I could sneak past or bluff anyone.

[Edit] Should probably mention that I'd only play them as f2p.

Anyhoo...here's my toon's stats.

=====================================
Nordhri Dokalfa, Dwarf, Lawful Neutral Cleric 5, Fighter 1)
STR 15 (+2), DEX 10, CON 14 (+2), INT 10, WIS 17 (+3), CHA 11

HP 105, SP 317, AC 27 +2, Fort +8, Reflex +1, Will +7, BAB +4
Resistances: All 0 except, Physical 18, Magical 10

Skills: Balance -2, Bluff 3, Concentration 9, Diplomacy 3, Heal 6, Jump -2, Listen 3, Search 2, Spellcraft 0, Spot 8, Swim -9
(there's other skills listed but they're all negatives)

Feats: Attack, Cleric Spontaneous Casting, Defensive Fighting, Dismiss Charm, Dwarven Stability, Dwarven Stonecunning, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Dwaven Waraxe), Extra Turning, Giant Evasion, Heavy Weapon Proficiency, Heroic Durability, Improved Heroic Durability, Magical Training, Weapon Proficieny (Battleaxe, Greataxe, Handaxe, etc...), Mental Toughness, Orc & Goblin Bonus, Poison Save Bonus, Religious Lore, Shield Proficiency (general), Sneak, Spell Save Bonus, Sunder, Toughness, Tower Shield Proficiency, Trip, Turn Undead (Cleric), Weapon Focus, (Slashing Weapons [Dwarven Waraxe])

Spells:
Level 1 - Shield of Faith, Bless, Cure Light Wounds, Bane, Command
Level 2 - Lesser Restoration, Bulls Strength, Cure Moderate Wounds, Resist Energy
Level 3 - Remove Curse, Sumon Monster III, Cure Serious Wounds

Enhancements: none

Gear:
+1 Shock Dwarven Waraxe, +3 Full Plate Heavy Armor, +4 Heavy Steel Shield, Armored +1 Bracers, Ogre Power +2 Belt of Light Fortification, Striding (+5%) Boots of Shocking Grasp, Ogre Power +1 Gloves of Escape +3, Charismatic +1 Cape of Hiding +3, Health +1 Neclace, Devotion Helm of Power 1, Ring of Bluffing +3, Goggles of the Eagle +5, Ring of the Eagle +3

[EllisDee37]

I'm counting 4 selected feats, but as a level 6 dwarf you should have only selected 3 feats so far:

Extra Turning
Mental Toughness
Toughness
Weapon Focus: Slashing

Talk to Fred and see which feats he'll let you exchange. Weapon Focus is the least useful of the bunch, for sure. The other three are okay; not optimal, and could be swapped out for something better, but not terrible. Possibly even good choices depending on what you want to do with it. (Caster? Battle Cleric? Healbot?)

It looks to me like it's a 32pt build with the following stats:

14 str +1 levelup
10 dex
14 con
10 int
17 wis
11 cha

Was this build a default path?

[Enoach]

There is one thing I would like to point out. There was a change in the "deity" feats a while back that did leave some cleric's, fvs and paladins in a state where they did not have the feats that should have been granted at level 1 and 6.

At this time I believe only a reincarnation can resolve this be it a Lesser or the result of an Epic reincarnation.

If you see you do not have a "deity" feat you may be able to resolve this by putting in an in game ticket or using the Lesser Reincarnation Heart you may have in your inventory (be careful not to use the LR+20 as you will want that for other purposes)

[kronovan]

Many thanks for the replies.

You know, if back in the day it was possible to substitute another feat for a deity feat at level 1, I might have been n00b enough to have done that. I remember really wanting a Dwarven Battle Cleric (yes that's what I was aiming for) that was good at wielding an axe and none of the deity choices support that. Might explain the presence of an additional racial feat - especially Weapon Focus (slashing). I've always been a player that builds for flavor, so the hammer -would be the next logical flavor choice- may not have appealed to my concept.

Something scratching at the back of my brain though, makes me think that wasn't the case. If only because when I created my Paly last year I remember the deity feats seeming like a new feature. I did really like how my undying court choice tied in with the Eberron setting and the background theme I came up with for my toon. None of the deity choices suit my original concept for a Dwarf Cleric.

So a few questions that come up for me:

Would it be worth me leveling up to cleric 6 to see if I get a deity feat choice, or would that just complicate/compound problems if in fact I am missing a level 1 feat?
As well, wouldn't I be left with something less than a 32 pt build if I did that as a f2p player?

Is the reset back to a level 1 toon something an in-game NPC can do, or do I need to pay someone from Standing Stone for the service?

Last year I had a decrepit gaming rig that could only run WinXP decently, which was a problem as there was a bug with the DDO store overlay that caused it to crash when accessed. That kept me from buying any of the adventure packs or other content. This year my son cobbled together a gaming rig for me & it's running Win7 64 & I can now successfully access the store, not to mention finally being able to run DDO maxed in all its hirez glory.
So that leads to the question...which adventure packs would be most useful for an about to be level 6 Cleric/Fighter 1 & a level 8 Paly?
I remember really missing Tangleroot & Delrina's tomb while leveling my Paly, but aren't those too low level for these 2 toons?

[unbongwah]

I'm counting 4 selected feats, but as a level 6 dwarf you should have only selected 3 feats so far:

Fourth feat is from his fighter splash.

Would it be worth me leveling up to cleric 6 to see if I get a deity feat choice, or would that just complicate/compound problems if in fact I am missing a level 1 feat?

If your toon is old enough to predate the deity feats - IIRC you chose your deity using Enhancements not feats in Ye Olden Tymes - then you need to Lesser Reincarnate in order to add a deity. Fortunately, you should have at least one Heart of Wood in your inventory. This also will let you clean up your other feats, stats, etc.

If you want to stick with battlecleric, Axel's thread is a good place to start. Although since you're Lawful Neutral, you can't take paladin. But still lots of useful info for clerics who think they're warriors.

So that leads to the question...which adventure packs would be most useful for an about to be level 7 Cleric & level 8 Paly?
I remember really missing Tangleroot & Delrina's tomb while leveling my Paly, but aren't those too low level for these 2 toons?

http://ddowiki.com/page/Quests_by_Adventure_Pack

ED37 also has a pretty good overview of adventure packs in his sig above.

[Edstienkin]

There is one thing I would like to point out. There was a change in the "deity" feats a while back ......

I would also like to point out that Fred has a case of amnesia concerning very old chars and what feat they took at level 3.
I have a slew of old characters and I'm guessing that with approximately 90% of them Fred has no idea of what feat was taken at level 3. (And neither do I).
I believe this *might* be related to the deity feat thing.
AFAIK the only recourse is to muddle thru to 20 and TR or to LR.

Talk to Fred and write down which feats he has avail for swap, what level you took them at and what class you were.
It will be helpful to figure out at what level you took your fighter level.

Did you receive any BTC LR and LR+20 hearts?
They gave them both to all chars after the enhancement change, not sure if you had to log in to receive them tho.

HtH

[Jasparion]

Any toon can be saved with Warlock levels. But if you want Cleric and want to do Melee, you could take a few more Fighter levels for more fighting feats, then get a heap of Cleric levels because Blade Barrier is brilliant no matter what else you are doing.

[C-Dog]

You know, if back in the day it was possible to substitute another feat for a deity feat at level 1, I might have been n00b enough to have done that...

Nah, nothing "n00b" about that, it was done quite a bit, even recommended. And still done today, depending - it's this quest:

o http://ddowiki.com/page/Hall_of_the_Mark

Run your cleric there to see if you've done it - can't do that one twice.


But even if so, Fred will now exchange any feats (altho' lower level ones are cheaper).

o http://ddowiki.com/page/Fred#Feat_respec

(This is what someone referred to above - visit him, see what he will exchange at each level, just don't pull the trigger. Repeat until you have the picture of your build that you need.)

[kronovan]

Thanks for all the replies and links everyone - very helpful.

If you want to stick with battlecleric, Axel's thread is a good place to start. Although since you're Lawful Neutral, you can't take paladin. But still lots of useful info for clerics who think they're warriors.

I checked out Axel's thread, but a Cleric with a WIS dump stat just screams "no" to me. I realize it's workable and may very well make an effective toon, but I couldn't bring myself to using a build which I'd frown upon if a player ever brought such a PC to my gaming table - guess I'm just not very good at disconnecting my tabletop play and sentiments from DDO.

I took the advice to check with Lockania for the Hall of the Mark & in fact hadn't run that quest with my Cleric. After completing it I checked with Fred and he would let me exchange all the feats that ED37 listed. As it turns out, I took my Fighter level at character level 5. These are the feats that Fred will let me replace my Weapon Focus with and my comments / impressions:

Brutal Throw (not planning on throwing weapons, so nope)
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (nothing much appealing with exception of bastard Sword, but I still want me axe)
Improved Shield Bash (maybe)
Point Blank Shot (nope, not ranged)
Power Attack (it's a good feat, but I'm not planning on using 2-H weapons)
Quick Draw (nope, not ranged)
Rapid Reload (nope, not ranged)
Resilience (save bonuses are nice, but cooldown increase seems brutal)
Sap (nope, seems only optimal for rogues)
Shield Mastery (maybe)
Slicing Blow (maybe)
Stunning Blow (maybe, but my Fort save DC would only be 12)
Weapon Focus (nope, already replacing slicing)
Zen Archery (nope, not ranged)

Still not decided, but the 2 shield and the 2 blows seem to be the most promising. My toon concept always has me donning a shield & wielding an axe, so shields are definitely workable. The blows seem better on damage though and residual effects.

I do have the 2 hearts of wood in my inventory, so the lesser reincarnation is a possibility. My dilemma though, is I really don't care for any of the deity feats and somewhat of a beef with Turbines' implementation of the Eberron lore in that there's only 1 overarching Sovereign Host feat. I really wish Balinor was treated as a separate deity as he be the axe god. With a Lawful Neutral alignment, I can only get deity feats for Quarterstaves, Flails or unarmed weapons - none of which I care for. But I'm only probably going premium at best, so I'm not complaining too hard.
IIRC though, once I take the deity feat I can visit Fred & he'll let me exchange it for the House Kundarak dragon marked feat, which I do quite like for both effect & flavor. At least I seem to recall exploring that with my Undying Court Elven Paly, but in his case not preferring the dragon marked feats over the deity ones.

Anyhoo...lots of decisions and reading to make & do.

[C-Dog]

I checked out Axel's thread, but a Cleric with a WIS dump stat just screams "no" to me. I realize it's workable and may very well make an effective toon, but I couldn't bring myself to using a build which I'd frown upon if a player ever brought such a PC to my gaming table - guess I'm just not very good at disconnecting my tabletop play and sentiments from DDO...
...
Resilience (save bonuses are nice, but cooldown increase seems brutal)

DDO is not D&D. There are many great D&D builds that simply can't be replicated here, and vice versa, builds that would crash and burn tabletop but rock here. (It's the Enhancements, mainly, but the core system is just... different. The way you could easily have an Elf Fighter/Wizard in early D&D, but that concept was just flawed in later editions.)

As for the dump-Wis Cleric and the Resilience, these seem tied to the same pre-conceptions. If all you're doing is using the cleric spells as buffs, you can take all the time you need - you'll never be spamming them in combat, so all good. On a RP level, it would be a lay-cleric who has just enough juice to cast some spells on themself, but not enough to cast them offensively - and as a long-time GM, that makes sense to me. (tho' ymmv, natch.)

I took the advice to check with Lockania for the Hall of the Mark & in fact hadn't run that quest with my Cleric...

Grats!

(But don't forget, that's just "free" - with the right dragonshard you can change others too, if that will help!)

Yeah, if your style is straighforward melee, then that's half of those...

Improved Shield Bash (maybe)
Power Attack (it's a good feat, but I'm not planning on using 2-H weapons)
Resilience (save bonuses are nice,
Shield Mastery (maybe)
Slicing Blow (maybe)
Stunning Blow (maybe, but my Fort save DC would only be 12)

One of the nice things about Power Attack, even with 1-handed weapons, is that it's a pre-cursor to Cleave, the melee build's Area attack. Yes, even better w/ 2-handed, but good enough, esp if you have the feats to spare.

As for the Shield feats, Shield Mastery is a little bonus to a lot of important areas - and anything that adds to Physical Resistance is a great survival tool. Don't underestimate it, while ISB essentially makes him a 2-weapon fighter, which is a nice style and image. Both together are strong.

[EllisDee37]

Fourth feat is from his fighter splash.

Oh, duh. I should have realized that, thanks much.

Power Attack (it's a good feat, but I'm not planning on using 2-H weapons)

Assuming you want to use a shield and dwarven axe, the feats you'll want are:

Shield Mastery
Improved Shield Mastery
Improved Critical
THF
ITHF
GTHF
Power Attack
Cleave
Great Cleave
Stunning Blow

The shield mastery feats gives you doublestrike...yummy! They also let you twist in even more doublestrike later in epic levels.

The THF line increases your glancing blow % and damage, which is good for you because dwarven axes get glancing blows when you S&B with an axe and shield. (Only dwarven axes and bastard swords get glancing blows when S&B.)

Cleaves are just full of win for any melee except TWF rangers.

Stunning Blow in and of itself isn't great, but it becomes a free melee power +9 clickie thanks to the Vanguard tree:

Vanguard Tier 4: Follow Up
When you hit with activated stunning attack (e.g. Stunning Blow or Stunning Shield), your Melee Power increases by [3/6/9] points for 12 seconds, regardless if enemy stunned.


All told that's 10 feats, and a 19/1 cleric fighter build only gets 8 feats. I would probably go at least to 6 fighter for extra feats and so you can take Tier 5s in a fighter tree, probably Vanguard but maybe Kensei.

[unbongwah]

I checked out Axel's thread, but a Cleric with a WIS dump stat just screams "no" to me. I realize it's workable and may very well make an effective toon, but I couldn't bring myself to using a build which I'd frown upon if a player ever brought such a PC to my gaming table - guess I'm just not very good at disconnecting my tabletop play and sentiments from DDO.

That's fine, but you should probably consider a caster cleric instead, since boosting WIS affects your spell DCs; particularly if you're duoing with a paladin who will presumably be handling the melee DPS. It's very easy to spread yourself too thin in DDO if you get too hung up on your favorite PnP character.

Still not decided, but the 2 shield and the 2 blows seem to be the most promising. My toon concept always has me donning a shield & wielding an axe, so shields are definitely workable. The blows seem better on damage though and residual effects.

Compared to other melee combat styles, S&B DPS is still the lowest. Vanguards can hit reasonable DPS, IMO, but a mostly-pure cleric? Not so much. There are still survivability benefits to using a shield, of course, but again: it's important to think about what's actually effective in-game, IMO, and not just what sounds cool.

IIRC though, once I take the deity feat I can visit Fred & he'll let me exchange it for the House Kundarak dragon marked feat, which I do quite like for both effect & flavor.

Dragonmark feats occupy regular feat slots; deity-only feat slots have to be used for deity feats.

[Tlorrd]

Hello everyone,

I was just able to recover my Cleric toon that I played back in the day when I was a subscriber - some time around 2006/07. I've since played a few f2p toons , but not a cleric. A few things left a bad taste in my mouth about playing one, but I can't remember exactly they were. TBH though, the main reason was that I lacked experience with D&D 3e, with really only the Nevewinter Nights 1 videogame as my experience at the time with the system. I've since played & DM'd the Pathfinder Tabletop and other D20-based RPGs, so I'm a bit more confident and comfortable with the system which is somewhat reflected in the Elven lvl 8 Paladin of the Undying court that I rolled up in 2016.

I'm wondering if my cleric is even salvageable and if so, what might be some things to change. Back in the day when I played that toon there wasn't even enhancements and IIRC the level cap at the time was 12. My clerics also multiclassed with 1 level of Fighter, which IIRC I did to get some Jump and Swim skill.

Any feedback or suggestions as to whether I can make my Cleric viable or should just let them continue to slumber in their grave, would be much appreciated. And if it helps, I have a enough XP to level up. The biggest concern I have is the low CHA, which is factored into Turn Undead. Some of the abilities, skills and gear makes me chuckle, but I believe it was more of a challenge back then - especially for such a clueless player. I mean...who was I fooling that I could sneak past or bluff anyone.

[Edit] Should probably mention that I'd only play them as f2p.

Anyhoo...here's my toon's stats.

=====================================
Nordhri Dokalfa, Dwarf, Lawful Neutral Cleric 5, Fighter 1)
STR 15 (+2), DEX 10, CON 14 (+2), INT 10, WIS 17 (+3), CHA 11

HP 105, SP 317, AC 27 +2, Fort +8, Reflex +1, Will +7, BAB +4
Resistances: All 0 except, Physical 18, Magical 10

Skills: Balance -2, Bluff 3, Concentration 9, Diplomacy 3, Heal 6, Jump -2, Listen 3, Search 2, Spellcraft 0, Spot 8, Swim -9
(there's other skills listed but they're all negatives)

Feats: Attack, Cleric Spontaneous Casting, Defensive Fighting, Dismiss Charm, Dwarven Stability, Dwarven Stonecunning, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Dwaven Waraxe), Extra Turning, Giant Evasion, Heavy Weapon Proficiency, Heroic Durability, Improved Heroic Durability, Magical Training, Weapon Proficieny (Battleaxe, Greataxe, Handaxe, etc...), Mental Toughness, Orc & Goblin Bonus, Poison Save Bonus, Religious Lore, Shield Proficiency (general), Sneak, Spell Save Bonus, Sunder, Toughness, Tower Shield Proficiency, Trip, Turn Undead (Cleric), Weapon Focus, (Slashing Weapons [Dwarven Waraxe])

Spells:
Level 1 - Shield of Faith, Bless, Cure Light Wounds, Bane, Command
Level 2 - Lesser Restoration, Bulls Strength, Cure Moderate Wounds, Resist Energy
Level 3 - Remove Curse, Sumon Monster III, Cure Serious Wounds

Enhancements: none

Gear:
+1 Shock Dwarven Waraxe, +3 Full Plate Heavy Armor, +4 Heavy Steel Shield, Armored +1 Bracers, Ogre Power +2 Belt of Light Fortification, Striding (+5%) Boots of Shocking Grasp, Ogre Power +1 Gloves of Escape +3, Charismatic +1 Cape of Hiding +3, Health +1 Neclace, Devotion Helm of Power 1, Ring of Bluffing +3, Goggles of the Eagle +5, Ring of the Eagle +3

TBH ... If you have no past live and only 4-5 levels ... I'd just delete the toon and start a new one ... You can then make a dwarf battle cleric as you like while incorporating all the new changes to the game without much fuss.

[ArgentMage]

TBH ... If you have no past live and only 4-5 levels ... I'd just delete the toon and start a new one ... You can then make a dwarf battle cleric as you like while incorporating all the new changes to the game without much fuss.

No - don't delete the toon. This toon probably has 1 or 2 unopened Raider's Boxes, a 6-year old cake, and other irreplaceable stuff like that piled up.
Find a build you like and LR that puppy.

[C-Dog]

@ OP - I think what you're going thru is what a lot of tabletop players experience when they come here - they want to build a concept character inspired by their tabletop experience, a combination of nostalgia and tribute, or whatever. I know I did.

And it can be a trap. Ohhhh, such a trap.

I was really enthused to build a certain multiclass mix - something that works great in 3.5, but was told (and by some others on this very thread) that it was just not really doable in this DDO version of D&D. But I built it anyway. And, quel suprise, it certainly failed, couldn't really push it past Lvl 9. Oh brother, light a match - here, you'll need the whole pack.

Break out of that before it's too late. Accept that this is D&D, but a diff version, and some builds are not going to translate well from the version(s) you are used to, and that some strong builds here have never been seen on your tabletop, in any version. Find a build here that can speak to you - if in a new and unfamiliar accent - and enjoy.