A Decent Proposal

[Mellkor]

After running a few lives in the racial PL hamster-wheel, The biggest complaint I have heard and experienced is running reaper in groups requires a narrower range of character levels in the typical reaper group. There is a real desire to play together among friends, but I am finding it is difficult for people in my own circles who play at different times, with some playing more than others per day but still want to play together, to actually do this.

IE:
A level 10 character running reaper quests usually looks to do level 10 quests with lev 9 and 10 characters to avoid heavy penalties.
A level 10 character running elite quests usually looks to do level 12 quests with lev 9 thru 12 characters.

This makes forming PUG groups or questing with your friends/guildies a little more difficult to do because of the very narrow level range to run at optimized xp.

I often find myself holding levels just to stay in a level range with my friends. There is more than enough XP at any level to make 'holding' levels an antiquated idea. But this only works within a 2 level range.

So why not increase (or eliminate) the XP limit currently in place? I really do not see a reason for this 'limit' anyway with the way XP penalties work now with repeating quests as well as the 'power level' penalty. If 'farming' XP on a particular quest is a DEV concern, then simply make repeat XP penalties harsher (or last much longer) OR make them permanent until you undergo some form of character resurrection.

At the very least make it so you can 'hold', say, 5 levels worth of XP?

This would add a lot of flexibility when forming groups and people with different schedules can still play together at level and simply progress as a group at the pace of the slowest player?

why? because keeping everyone within a 2 level range is difficult to do in practice. There always seems to be someone who "gets left behind". Implementing this would make it a lot easier for a group of people with different habits to still play together, and still play the game the way they like.

What do you think?

-JR

[Qezuzu]

What do you think?

You basically covered it. Making the Reaper XP penalty come sooner than BB cutoff was a bad move.

If I want to get reaper XP in level X quests my desired level range will be X-1 to X. Before, with BB, it was X-2 to X+2 (or X+4 iirc in epics.) At any given time there will be less people eligible for my LFM and it will be harder to fill, decreasing my enjoyment for that time played.

It was objectively a bad decision, I just don't understand it.

[Saekee]

/signed

[Qhualor]

I think BB should be +0 not +2.

[slarden]

Another option would be running level 10 quests on reaper with characters that are level 8-10 rather than 10-12. Under the regular xp system a the level 9 character in a group of characters from level 9-12 would suffer an xp penalty wouldn't they?

[MistaMagic]

You start off by saying you are running Racial then you bring Reaper into it, so which is it you are running as both have different values ie

If you are running Racial then then the old Elite is no problem or run Reaper1 and don't worry about the reaper xp penalty which is what a lot of pugs on Khyber are doing just for the additional 120% xp with RXP being a bonus

[Cantor]

Another option would be running level 10 quests on reaper with characters that are level 8-10 rather than 10-12. Under the regular xp system a the level 9 character in a group of characters from level 9-12 would suffer an xp penalty wouldn't they?

9-12 is the allowed 4 levels with no penalty, this is why that was the range established by BB.

I have been doing a TR with a friend and my wife, and we're not all 3 available at the same time all the time. I have let 100ks of heroic xp disappear capping banked xp to run with my group and still get max reaper xp. It would be nice if the reaper range matched the BB range or we could bank more.

[slarden]

9-12 is the allowed 4 levels with no penalty, this is why that was the range established by BB.

I have been doing a TR with a friend and my wife, and we're not all 3 available at the same time all the time. I have let 100ks of heroic xp disappear capping banked xp to run with my group and still get max reaper xp. It would be nice if the reaper range matched the BB range or we could bank more.

In that case running 7-10 is still an option or is there a lockout preventing a level 7 from joining? If so they should remove it.

[EllisDee37]

I think BB should be +0 not +2.

BB is +0, actually. Reaper is -2.

[Avantasian]

The solution is to simply match reaper cut off levels with BB, which is even what the devs thought they had done in the first place.
Any other fix will only put the real solution further away and make the whole system make less sense.

[slarden]

The solution is to simply match reaper cut off levels with BB, which is even what the devs thought they had done in the first place.
Any other fix will only put the real solution further away and make the whole system make less sense.

I am not seeing it as a complicated issue. If you run a level 10 quest you run that with level 7-10 characters on reaper. People are completing things fine as is so there is no need to make it easier. And the power creep will only get worse as people fill their reaper trees and acquire racial past lifes.

[Qhualor]

BB is +0, actually. Reaper is -2.

maybe I said it wrong. using an example of what I mean, running a level 10 quest right now you can get BB at level 12. I think BB should be at level 10.

[icekinslayer]

make it so you can 'hold', say, 5 levels worth of XP?

/signed

[Avantasian]

I am not seeing it as a complicated issue. If you run a level 10 quest you run that with level 7-10 characters on reaper. People are completing things fine as is so there is no need to make it easier. And the power creep will only get worse as people fill their reaper trees and acquire racial past lifes.

If you run a level 10 quest with a level 10 character you get a 50% exp penalty.
How hard/easy it is to complete has nothing to do with it, the problem is the inconsistency with the already well established meta and how badly it fits into the game for no good reason at all. It creates tons of problems with grouping an pugging.
If it has to do with difficulty then just make reaper harder to compensate. Numbers can always be tweaked, it's far more important to make sure the mechanics are sound.

[Astoroth]

So why not increase (or eliminate) the XP limit currently in place? I really do not see a reason for this 'limit' anyway with the way XP penalties work now with repeating quests as well as the 'power level' penalty. If 'farming' XP on a particular quest is a DEV concern, then simply make repeat XP penalties harsher (or last much longer) OR make them permanent until you undergo some form of character resurrection.

At the very least make it so you can 'hold', say, 5 levels worth of XP?

This would add a lot of flexibility when forming groups and people with different schedules can still play together at level and simply progress as a group at the pace of the slowest player?

It's a nice idea. They should also have epic reincarnation just cost the 6m exp to fill a sphere and allow it whenever you are level 20 or higher and a have filled sphere.

[slarden]

If you run a level 10 quest with a level 10 character you get a 50% exp penalty.
How hard/easy it is to complete has nothing to do with it, the problem is the inconsistency with the already well established meta and how badly it fits into the game for no good reason at all. It creates tons of problems with grouping an pugging.
If it has to do with difficulty then just make reaper harder to compensate. Numbers can always be tweaked, it's far more important to make sure the mechanics are sound.

It seems I am getting full xp for running a level 10 quest at level 10. If you are referring to the quest level +2 you are just complicating a really simple thing. This is the actual quest level and someone isn't able to figure this out they probably don't belong in reaper anyhow

http://ddowiki.com/page/Quests_by_level

Here are the actual level 10 quests
Level 10 quests

Black and Blue • Bring Me the Head of Ghola-Fan! • Escort the Expedition • Hiding in Plain Sight • Hold for Reinforcements • Plane of Night • Reclamation • Secure the Area • Slavers of the Shrieking Mines • Sykros' Jewel • Tempest's Spine • The Chamber of Rahmat • The Gate Chamber • The Giants' Supplies • The Newcomers • The Sanctum: Church of the Fury • The Sanctum: Quench the Flames • The Vault of Night

Are you not getting full reaper xp for running these at level 10?

There is no reason for reaper to conform to the old +2 quest level convention. It's designed for challenge and the fact is people were completing it BEFORE they had reaper AP spent and BEFORE they had racial TR benefits. There is no need to water down reaper with these type of requests. I am not running into people that don't understand how it works on Sarlona.

[Avantasian]

It seems I am getting full xp for running a level 10 quest at level 10. If you are referring to the quest level +2 you are just complicating a really simple thing. This is the actual quest level and someone isn't able to figure this out they probably don't belong in reaper anyhow

http://ddowiki.com/page/Quests_by_level

Here are the actual level 10 quests
Level 10 quests

Black and Blue • Bring Me the Head of Ghola-Fan! • Escort the Expedition • Hiding in Plain Sight • Hold for Reinforcements • Plane of Night • Reclamation • Secure the Area • Slavers of the Shrieking Mines • Sykros' Jewel • Tempest's Spine • The Chamber of Rahmat • The Gate Chamber • The Giants' Supplies • The Newcomers • The Sanctum: Church of the Fury • The Sanctum: Quench the Flames • The Vault of Night

Are you not getting full reaper xp for running these at level 10?

Those are indeed level 10 on normal. In quests that are level 10 on reaper you do get a 50% exp penalty if you are level 10, that is simply an undeniable fact.

There is no reason for reaper to conform to the old +2 quest level convention. It's designed for challenge and the fact is people were completing it BEFORE they had reaper AP spent and BEFORE they had racial TR benefits. There is no need to water down reaper with these type of requests. I am not running into people that don't understand how it works on Sarlona.

Making it harder by making it stupid is not worth it. There are far better ways to create challenge than tossing out the meta and making pugs less accessable.
If you truly cannot fathom a negative effect of this then the first thing you should do is read the OP. Then search for other topics like it. Keep doing that until you are informed and actually understand what we are talking about.
"there is no reason". lol, how arrogant

[slarden]

Those are indeed level 10 on normal. In quests that are level 10 on reaper you do get a 50% exp penalty if you are level 10, that is simply an undeniable fact.

Making it harder by making it stupid is not worth it. There are far better ways to create challenge than tossing out the meta and making pugs less accessable.
If you truly cannot fathom a negative effect of this then the first thing you should do is read the OP. Then search for other topics like it. Keep doing that until you are informed and actually understand what we are talking about.
"there is no reason". lol, how arrogant

This is not hard to understand. If you are level 10 run the quests in the link I provided that are shown as level 10 or above for full reaper xp. If you want to run with 4 level ranges open your lfm to levels 7-10 rather than 9-12. None of this is complicated or hard to figure out. None of this is causing any grouping issues on Sarlona. If you want to make the quests easier to run just keep begging on the forums and maybe the devs will see it your way and make it easier. I don't see a reason with people gaining more power from reaper trees and more power from racial lifes.

[Mellkor]

Those are indeed level 10 on normal. In quests that are level 10 on reaper you do get a 50% exp penalty if you are level 10, that is simply an undeniable fact.

This is not correct. Running a level 10 character through any level 10 quest on any reaper skull level does not incur a penalty. (if it is the first time you are running it, repeat penalty(s) apply after the first run through).

I think you may be confused. A level 8 quest on reaper 1 will say "level 10" in the quest window when you start the quest, but it is still a level 8 quest. In this case there is indeed, a rather harsh penalty. (as should be IMO, in this case).

[Sam-u-r-eye]

I think BB should be +0 not +2.

+1