account share epic past life

[RobbinB]

I would say no to the suggestion as proposed.

I agree with many of the points from people on both sides of the op. What confuses me is that there only seems to be two distinct sides to the debate. Did I miss it or did anyone sensibly ask if there might be some compromise somewhere in the middle of all this, some grey in between the black and white?

The introduction of reaper followed immediately by racial tr in it's 3 x10 races format is in my mind insane. +1 skill point for 10 different lives the first time you do each race? That's grind to the extreme and really just plain stupid. And frankly I'm surprised there wasn't a whole lot more resistance to that insanity on Lamannia (there was some resistance but there could have been more).

So, no, maybe account wide xp for playing one toon only isn't reasonable, but maybe there could be some changes made. Like xp bonuses after you get 2/3/4/... toons to a certain # of past-lives, or y% of the xp you earned goes to other toons on the same server, or whatever. Something the helps make successive alts not as grindy to level up as the first character(s) you play.

[Avantasian]

He's saying that account wide rewards aren't the only reason people played alts. His example of a different reason to play alts was to fulfill roles for guild raids.

The original statement that he is trying to spin is that people played alts in the shroud for no account wide reward, which is plainly false.

[Vanhooger]

That is not a good reason

For you maybe for me is very good reason.

[Qhualor]

The original statement that he is trying to spin is that people played alts in the shroud for no account wide reward, which is plainly false.

wrong. I responded to this statement you made.

Wrong. People ran a wide range of alts in shroud exactly because the reward was account wide.

I pointed out that players didn't create alts just for unbound ingredients because there were many other raids being played at the same time where many players wanted to have a stable of options depending on the roles needed for these raids. you needed to bring alts into Shroud for BTC shards, to upgrade GS gear and 20th reward lists. players did farm Shroud with alts, but that was not the only reason and its not the only reason why players started alts.

[Avantasian]

wrong. I responded to this statement you made.



I pointed out that players didn't create alts just for unbound ingredients because there were many other raids being played at the same time where many players wanted to have a stable of options depending on the roles needed for these raids. you needed to bring alts into Shroud for BTC shards, to upgrade GS gear and 20th reward lists. players did farm Shroud with alts, but that was not the only reason and its not the only reason why players started alts.

You are even saying yourself that people didn't run it for no reward, you are confirming the post you are trying to counter. Im not disagreeing with what you are saying. Look at the context of the post instead of doing this meaningless forum lawyering.

[Gremmlynn]

No, I don't get your point. How does that relate to my post? I am talking about shroud and how account wide rewards made people take their alts into shroud. Every single person I knew had some character that they more or less only played in shroud, and most I knew rolled new characters for the sole purpose of using them to far account wide rewards in the shroud. Account wide rewards make people run alts more, that is just a fact. Trying to paint it as though people played alts at that time with no regards for rewards is simply wrong.
The alt focus of the shroud was a big reason people had characters of different roles to jump into when needed for other content.

The three day waiting period between runs also played a factor there and even if the zoned out before completion, chest ransack also did.

With SSG selling bypasses for that waiting period for newer raids, maybe playing alts isn't something they want to promote. Setting an optional pay game up to support itself seems like it could be fairly tricky with quite a bit of though needed to be put into setting up ways of motivating players to want to pay.

[Avantasian]

Income is gained by making people spend time in the game. The more time they spend the more money they spend.
If encouraging alts makes people spend more time in game it is good for profits. There is no other monetization argument that holds up.

[Gremmlynn]

I have never made that point. I have personally rolled up alts for different situations, but I never played alts as much as I did in the shroud and the racial PLs and reaper exp made me stop considering starting to play an alt again.

Because somehow those alts without racial PLs and even reaper xp would be less capable that they are now?

This is what I really don't get. In threads like this I sometimes have to double check to make sure I'm on the DDO forums and not that of some game that is set up to require every possible bonus to be viable in content. While some might make them a little better, most make little or no difference for the task the character is performing.

I mean the very fact that we have people complaining on this forum that 10 Skull Reaper doesn't give enough rxp points out that the hardest setting can be played without the reaper bonuses. That most of this is about getting bonuses for the sake of having bonuses.

[Gremmlynn]

There is an aspect that I think some people are missing with the idea of Past Lives (any of them) being Account Wide.

This potentially removes a revenue stream. There are Past Lives that some people "pay" through, be it XP potions, XP Stones or other bypass options.

While there is the claim that people only play a single character because... They are not entirely correct as there are people like me that still have multiple characters and play multiple characters.

As a long time player I would benefit from such a system. But then all of my characters would most likely feel the same as they past lives from my six character would make me done with Epic Reincarnation, Heroic would make me a completionist nearly 3x etc.

I don't want this as in my mind that would be the single biggest "power leap" in the game. I just think this is a bad idea. But unless you see that these are not needed you probably won't agree.

I think some here are of a mind set common in MMOs with actual end games that the real game starts at that end game with the leveling process, in total, some sort of entry cost to playing the real game. So, until a character has every possible past life or other character based bonus (reaper tree, tome, etc.), it is still leveling, rather than actually playing.

Others of us simply see the leveling process as actually playing the game or even as just being a side effect of doing so. With DDO, this could be seen as the more applicable mind set since, what is generally considered "End Game" in many MMOS is actually pretty much the end of the game here due to there really not being much left to play for at that point.

[Gremmlynn]

I don't want Past Lives or XP like Reaper (for trees) or Crafting XP to be shared. I would prefer those stay at the character level.

Crafting wouldn't bother me, as that would mostly be a convenience change. Basically just a lot less changing to a different character to craft or deconstruct items.

But I can see why SSG may not want to do that as a single crafter being extremely optimal for those who play multiple characters likely pushes sales of shared banks and shared bank space.

[Gremmlynn]

I pointed out that players didn't create alts just for unbound ingredients because there were many other raids being played at the same time where many players wanted to have a stable of options depending on the roles needed for these raids. you needed to bring alts into Shroud for BTC shards, to upgrade GS gear and 20th reward lists. players did farm Shroud with alts, but that was not the only reason and its not the only reason why players started alts.

My memory is that players were much more reluctant to do so in those other raids, due to the rewards not being able to be shared though. If the motivation for running the raid was to get item A for character X, running it on character Y was often seen as being rather pointless.

That's not to say it was never done, but generally it was due to not having anything better to do at the time and character X being on timer. Until timer bypasses came out anyway.

[Gremmlynn]

Income is gained by making people spend time in the game. The more time they spend the more money they spend.
If encouraging alts makes people spend more time in game it is good for profits. There is no other monetization argument that holds up.

Except that grind sharing would cause those alts to not really need to play much.

I really don't see how this would cause players to play more. It might cause some players to play different characters in basically the same time span they would have played the one fully maxed out character. But other players without the psychological need to be fully maxed out, would play less due to no longer having to grind out just what they feel an alt may actually need to be good enough for the task.

[GeoffWatson]

Because somehow those alts without racial PLs and even reaper xp would be less capable that they are now?

No, but the devs create new content balanced around the players having the max. In the new raid, the boss has millions of HP, as the devs based it on what maxxed out players can have.
If you just want to do old content, the alts are fine.

[Avantasian]

Because somehow those alts without racial PLs and even reaper xp would be less capable that they are now?

This is what I really don't get. In threads like this I sometimes have to double check to make sure I'm on the DDO forums and not that of some game that is set up to require every possible bonus to be viable in content. While some might make them a little better, most make little or no difference for the task the character is performing.

I mean the very fact that we have people complaining on this forum that 10 Skull Reaper doesn't give enough rxp points out that the hardest setting can be played without the reaper bonuses. That most of this is about getting bonuses for the sake of having bonuses.

What about finishing a character is it you don't get?

[Avantasian]

Except that grind sharing would cause those alts to not really need to play much.

I really don't see how this would cause players to play more. It might cause some players to play different characters in basically the same time span they would have played the one fully maxed out character. But other players without the psychological need to be fully maxed out, would play less due to no longer having to grind out just what they feel an alt may actually need to be good enough for the task.

There is more than enough grinding to keep players busy for years and years. It's not like the majority of players had run out of things to do before racial PLs and RXP.
Causing players to play more characters creates variety.
Look, Im not asking for sharing of all grinds.

If account wide rewards are inherently bad, the same must apply to unbound and BTA loot.

[EllisDee37]

Crafting wouldn't bother me, as that would mostly be a convenience change. Basically just a lot less changing to a different character to craft or deconstruct items.

I don't bother changing, since both my crafters (on both accounts) can craft anything bound that I'd ever want, so neither crafter needs more crafting xp. But I can always use essences so I decon everything with whoever I'm on. My non-crafters are around crafter level 100 just from decon.

But I can see why SSG may not want to do that as a single crafter being extremely optimal for those who play multiple characters likely pushes sales of shared banks and shared bank space.

You don't need shared bank for crafting. Shared Crafting Storage suffices, and all premium players get 12 slots for free. So a premium player without shared bank can still pass bound crafted shards around. (Just not finished items.)


All that to say that I tend to agree, account-wide crafting xp seems like a reasonable idea.

[Chai]

Income is gained by making people spend time in the game. The more time they spend the more money they spend.
If encouraging alts makes people spend more time in game it is good for profits. There is no other monetization argument that holds up.

Their income model is predicated on spending money to circumvent calendar time playing to attain specific goals. Those who advocated this method and supported it through the years would argue that doesnt make people spend less time in the game. Ive seen evidence of both. Some of those folks who staunchly supported it over the years still play and still pay, however some of them paid their way through the game, then left. A good example of the latter is the guy who created the thread a few years back regarding having spent thousands of dollars attaining completionist, then complained there was nothing to do, then hasnt been heard from since.

This isnt necessarily the argument that would convince SSG however. What could convince them is making a case that the success of this marketing model doesnt justify moving forward with it and monetizing current PLs even more, and also monetizing new XP methods such as reaper XP. Could that case even be made? I highly doubt it. This is the accepted revenue model now.

[Avantasian]

Their income model is predicated on spending money to circumvent calendar time playing to attain specific goals. Those who advocated this method and supported it through the years would argue that doesnt make people spend less time in the game. Ive seen evidence of both. Some of those folks who staunchly supported it over the years still play and still pay, however some of them paid their way through the game, then left. A good example of the latter is the guy who created the thread a few years back regarding having spent thousands of dollars attaining completionist, then complained there was nothing to do, then hasnt been heard from since.

This isnt necessarily the argument that would convince SSG however. What could convince them is making a case that the success of this marketing model doesnt justify moving forward with it and monetizing current PLs even more, and also monetizing new XP methods such as reaper XP. Could that case even be made? I highly doubt it. This is the accepted revenue model now.

The idea is that making some of the grind account wide would lead to an increase in demand for circumventing calendar time. If the hill is slightly less steep more people will travel it.

[Qhualor]

The idea is that making some of the grind account wide would lead to an increase in demand for circumventing calendar time. If the hill is slightly less steep more people will travel it.

the hill was already less steep when new content, reducing the xp required for cap on 2nd and 3rd lifers, adding multiple xp boosts, increasing xp in some quests, pay to bypass and reworking quest xp. account wide is one of the worst forum ideas I have seen without taking into account the negative side affects or if they are, they don't seem to care.

[Chai]

The idea is that making some of the grind account wide would lead to an increase in demand for circumventing calendar time. If the hill is slightly less steep more people will travel it.

Theres also the possibility that if more people will run/walk the marathon for free, that means less people will pay for the taxi to take them to the finish line. If there was an endgame at that finish line waiting for us, that would add incentive to "finish" characters to keep them at cap.