Collectable Valuation Project

[EllisDee37]

I'd like to put together a value chart for collectables for the purposes of trading. There are two aspects to this: Supply and Demand.

Supply
A measure of how long it takes to farm up any given collectable, using a measure of "seconds per pull." For example, you might be able to farm up 1 Fragrant Drowshood in 2:05, but a Glass Phial takes 4:05, thus making Glass Phials more valuable if they both have the same demand. The supply values will be objective, based on farming runs with an optimal collectable farmer.

Demand
A measure of what shards each collectable is used for and how desirable those shards are. This is more subjective, so I'd like some feedback on my classifications. It'll take me a week or three to gather the supply side numbers; I figure we can use that time to fine tune the demand side numbers.

[EllisDee37]

Here's the final value table, both by value and by collectable.

Essences	Collectable		Essences	Collectable
1575	Silver Flame Hymnal		425	Academic Treatise
1550	Ornate Charm		125	Amber Vial
1475	Scholarly Notes		10	Amulet of the Lost Empire
1475	Silver Bowl		20	Amulet of the Six
1125	Cryptmoss Worm		200	Ancient Text
1050	House-Sealed Letter		775	Archaic Logbook
875	Ivory Scorpion Icon		5	Blade of the Dark Six
875	Sparkling Dust		125	Blessed Candle
850	Charred Soarwood		400	Blister Beetle
850	Wavecrasher Cargo Manifest		225	Bloodfeast Fungus
775	Archaic Logbook		200	Brass Censer
750	Glass Phial		150	Bruised Spore Pod
750	Polished Ore		200	Caravan Logbook
725	Cryptmoss		100	Ceramic Bowl
650	Fragrant Drowshood		850	Charred Soarwood
575	Vial of Pure Water		125	Chipped Bone Talisman
550	Fractured Femur		50	Crypt Moth
525	Moonstone		200	Cryptic Message
500	Khyber Prayer Pamphlet		725	Cryptmoss
500	Stone Fetish		1125	Cryptmoss Worm
500	Warehouse Ledger		250	Cryptmoss Worm Larva
425	Academic Treatise		125	Deadly Feverblanch
425	Pouch of Bone Fragments		25	Duskbrood Trumpeter
400	Blister Beetle		150	Flint Knife
350	Romantic Sonnet		550	Fractured Femur
325	Headsman Beetle		650	Fragrant Drowshood
325	Lodestone		5	Funerary Token
325	Singed Soarwood		750	Glass Phial
300	Research Diary		200	Glittering Dust
300	Skull Fragment		150	Glowmoss Spore
275	Intact Spore Pod		150	Hairy Trumpet Mushroom
250	Cryptmoss Worm Larva		325	Headsman Beetle
225	Bloodfeast Fungus		1050	House-Sealed Letter
225	Runic Parchment		275	Intact Spore Pod
200	Ancient Text		875	Ivory Scorpion Icon
200	Brass Censer		500	Khyber Prayer Pamphlet
200	Caravan Logbook		325	Lodestone
200	Cryptic Message		15	Mark of the Keeper
200	Glittering Dust		525	Moonstone
200	Mortar and Pestle		200	Mortar and Pestle
175	Powdered Blood		75	Mystical Formula
150	Bruised Spore Pod		1550	Ornate Charm
150	Flint Knife		150	Page Torn from a Research Notebook
150	Glowmoss Spore		75	Phoenix Tavern Purchase Order
150	Hairy Trumpet Mushroom		65	Planar Spoor
150	Page Torn from a Research Notebook		750	Polished Ore
125	Amber Vial		425	Pouch of Bone Fragments
125	Blessed Candle		175	Powdered Blood
125	Chipped Bone Talisman		300	Research Diary
125	Deadly Feverblanch		0	Ritual Candle
125	Smoldering Ember		350	Romantic Sonnet
125	Sour Darkcap		75	Ruddy Fungus
100	Ceramic Bowl		225	Runic Parchment
75	Mystical Formula		1475	Scholarly Notes
75	Phoenix Tavern Purchase Order		15	Signet of the Devourer
75	Ruddy Fungus		1475	Silver Bowl
75	Slime Mold		1575	Silver Flame Hymnal
75	Sweet Whitecap		325	Singed Soarwood
75	Withered Cryptmoss		300	Skull Fragment
75	Zygomycota Fungus		75	Slime Mold
65	Planar Spoor		20	Small Planar Crystal
50	Crypt Moth		20	Small Wooden Idol
25	Duskbrood Trumpeter		125	Smoldering Ember
20	Amulet of the Six		125	Sour Darkcap
20	Small Planar Crystal		875	Sparkling Dust
20	Small Wooden Idol		500	Stone Fetish
15	Mark of the Keeper		5	String of Prayer Beads
15	Signet of the Devourer		0	Swaying Mushroom Cluster
10	Amulet of the Lost Empire		0	Swaying Mushroom Spore Pod
5	Blade of the Dark Six		75	Sweet Whitecap
5	Funerary Token		0	Vial of Heavy Water
5	String of Prayer Beads		575	Vial of Pure Water
0	Ritual Candle		500	Warehouse Ledger
0	Swaying Mushroom Cluster		850	Wavecrasher Cargo Manifest
0	Swaying Mushroom Spore Pod		75	Withered Cryptmoss
0	Vial of Heavy Water		75	Zygomycota Fungus

The 0 value collectables aren't used in bound crafting.

[EllisDee37]

Supply numbers are gathered using my Epic Challenge Runner, which happens to be ideally suited for collectable farming: Very fast run speed, many sprint boosts, invisibility, DDoor, and can use wings from exalted angel while farming collectables. For these time trials, I don't use sprint boost unless there's an available shrine to recharge them, and even then I limit it to one sprint boost per run. With 11-12 sprint boosts, that means I would have to shrine every 11-12 runs. Wings I use as much as is repeatable based on recharge rate, and figure echoes of power can pay for unlimited wings.

It's not assumed that other people would be able to replicate these speeds; the average build will almost certainly be slower. The key is to find the relative farming speeds based on a single build, and having an optimized farmer seems like the best way to go.


Some of the less obvious columns in the supply table are:

Realms denotes if the quest is in the Forgotten Realms, which removes Eberron-only collectables from the pool of possible drops.

Time is how long it takes for a full run, beginning and ending at the same place. This can also be a link to a youtube video showing a run.

Arcane, Lore, Natural and Any are simple counts of how many dispensers of each type are collected each run.

Common, Uncommon and Rare show the average time it would take to farm up any one specific collectable. This factors in the basic chance based on frequency (75%/20%/5%), how many collectables there are in the pool for that tier + frequency, and also includes Any dispensers at their suspected rates. Those rates are currently set as follows, but these may change (and thus change the table values) if more data is acquired in the linked thread:

22% Arcane
50% Cultural
20% Lore
8% Natural

Note: When reading this table, out-of-school collectables are just bonus extras that aren't factored into the time needed. Consider the Tier 3 Lore farm Eyes of Stone: The 1 natural and the 1 arcane don't mean anything other than that they're there. The three Lore dispensers are the only ones that matter in terms of time to collect. ("Any" would count too, but there are none in that farm.)

School

Tier

Quest

Realms

Difficulty

Time

Arcane

Lore

Natural

Any

Common

Uncommon

Rare

Arcane

1

Tomb of the Crimson Heart

Normal

1:15

4

1

1

0:24

1:29

5:55

Arcane

2

Enemy Within

Casual

3:05

10

1

0:48

3:01

12:04

Arcane

3

Enemy Within

Normal

3:05

10

1

1:12

4:32

18:06

Arcane

3

Through a Mirror Darkly

Yes

Casual

4:05

10

1:05

4:05

16:20

Arcane

4

Through a Mirror Darkly

Yes

Normal

4:05

10

1:05

4:05

16:20

Arcane

5

Through a Mirror Darkly

Yes

EC

4:05

10

0:33

2:02

8:10

Arcane

6

Through a Mirror Darkly

Yes

EN

4:05

10

0:33

2:02

8:10

Cultural

4

Wheloon Prison

Yes

Heroic

4:30

17

0:42

5:18

21:11

Cultural

5

Wheloon Prison

Yes

Epic

4:30

17

0:42

2:39

10:35

Cultural

6

Precious Cargo

EH

0:50

2

1:07

4:10

16:40

Lore

1

Repossession

Normal

0:35

1

2

0:23

1:28

5:50

Lore

2

Repossession

Elite

0:35

1

2

0:47

2:55

11:40

Lore

3

Eyes of Stone

Normal

1:30

1

3

1

1:20

7:30

30:00

Lore

4

Schemes of the Enemy

Normal

2:05

4

1

1

0:40

2:29

9:55

Lore

5

Schemes of the Enemy

Elite

2:05

4

1

1

0:40

2:29

9:55

Lore

6

Terminal Delirium

EN

2:20

2

3

1

1

0:58

3:39

14:35

Natural

1

A Small Problem

Normal

2:30

10

0:20

1:15

5:00

Natural

2

Last Stand

Normal

0:45

3

0:40

2:30

10:00

Natural

3

Assault on Summerfield

Normal

1:15

9

0:33

2:05

8:20

Natural

4

Breaking the Ranks

Yes

Normal

0:40

5

0:21

1:20

5:20

Natural

5

Breaking the Ranks

Yes

Elite

0:40

5

0:21

1:20

2:40

Natural

6

Breaking the Ranks

Yes

EN

0:40

5

0:11

0:40

2:40

Collectables flagged as Eberron-only:

Charred Soarwood
Lightning-Split Soarwood
Singed Soarwood

[EllisDee37]

What I'm thinking is to assign a value between 1 and 10 to each category, then add up the totals for every shard a collectable is used for to get their demand value.

Universal: 10 points
Universal effects are desirable for every possible build.

Common: 8 points
Common effects are used by many builds, possibly (probably?) a majority of them.

Uncommon: 6 points
Uncommon effects are used by a fair number of builds, though clearly a minority.

Niche: 4 points
Niche effects are very desirable, but only for a small handful of build types.

Obsolete: 2 points
Obsolete effects are better off being replaced by using augments. Still, you might have a reason to craft these if you need it on a lower ML than the augment allows, or maybe the augment is too expensive to acquire.

Rarely Used: 1 point
There is probably someone, somewhere, who will want to use any one of these effects, but for the most part they have little value.

Group	Universal	Common	Uncommon	Niche	Obsolete	Rarely Used
Stats	Constitution	Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, Wisdom, Charisma
Energy Absorptioon						Acid, Cold, Electricty, Fire, Sonic
Banes				Construct, Chaotic Outsider, Evil Outsider, Lawful Outsider, Undead, Unnatural		Aberration, Animal, Dragon, Dwarf, Elemental, Elf, Giant, Gnoll, Goblinoid, Halfling, Human, Incorporeal, Monstrous Humanoid, Ooze, Orc, Plant, Reptilian, Vermin
DPS		Accuracy, Armor Piercing, Deadly (regular), Doublestrike/shot, Melee/Range Alacrity, Seeker		Shield Bashing, Insightful Deadly
Defense	Insightful Fortification, Sheltering, iPRR, iMRR	Dodge, Healing Amp		Spell Resistance, Natural Armor, Protection, Negative Amp, Repair Amp	Fortification (regular only)
Stat Damaging						Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, Charisma
Guard						Acid, Evil, Fire, Good, Ice, Lightning, Piercing, Solar, Sonic, Undead
Misc	False Life			Diversion, Incite, Vampirism, Vitality	Striding
Weapon Procs			Good, Bludgeon, Piercing, Slashing	Chaos, Evil, Force, Light, Bashing, Shield Spikes		Acid, Cold, Electric, Fire, Law, Negative, Poison, Sonic
Energy Resistance				Light		Acid, Cold, Electric, Fire, Negative, Poison, Sonic
Save	Resistance, Parrying		Spell Saves	Enchantment Saves		Disease, Fortitude, Illusion, Poison, Reflex, Will
Skill			Spellsight, Search, Spot, Disable Device, Open Lock	Concentration, Heal, Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Haggle, Hide, Move Silently, Jump, Swim, Perform		Balance, Listen, Repair, Tumble
Spellcasting		Wizardry (regular)		Spell Penetration, Insightful Wizardry
Spell Focus			Evocation	Conjuration, Enchantment, Necromancy, Spell Focus Mastery		Abjuration, Illusion, Transmutation
Spell Lore				Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire, Force, Light, Negative, Positive, Repair, Sonic		Universal
Spell Power		Devotion		Combustion, Corrosion, Glaciation, Impulse, Magnetism, Nullification, Radiance, Reconstruction, Resonance		Potency
Static				Aligned, Efficient Maximize, Eternal Faith, Everbright, Ghost Touch, Invulnerability, Keen, Lesser Casting Dex, Metalline, Persuasion, Silver Flame, True Seeing	Blindness Ward, Deathblock, Feather Fall, Underwater Action	Blueshine, Efficient Empower / Empower Healing / Enlarge / Extend, Fearsome, Regeneration, Sacred, Songblade, Twilight, Unbalancing, Vengeful
Tactics			Combat Mastery, Stunning	Assassinate		Shatter, Tendon Slice, Vertigo

Except for Fortification, Deadly and Wizardry, all effects listed also include their Insightful version.

Vitality, Insightful Deadly and Insightful Wizardry are downgraded due to only being craftable in a single slot.

[EllisDee37]

What I'm looking for now is feedback on any effects you think I've put in the wrong category. Also any feedback on the points system is welcome.

[Ulfo]

DEX. Seeker, Deadly put to Universal, Natural Armor and Protection to Uncommon, Damage proc Good, Force, Light, Bludgeoning, Piercing, Slashing to Universal, Rogue skill to Nishe, Spell Penetration to Universal, exchange Doublestrike and Melee Alacrity for Doubleshot and Ranged alacrity.

[EllisDee37]

DEX. Seeker, Deadly put to Universal
[...]
Damage proc Good, Force, Light, Bludgeoning, Piercing, Slashing to Universal

Spellcasters don't need any of those, and dex isn't needed by int builds.

Spell Penetration to Universal

Neither melee nor range builds need spell pen. "Universal" means literally every build can benefit from it.

Natural Armor and Protection to Uncommon

I'm open to this.

Rogue skill to Niche

Lots of builds splash trapping skills, though.

exchange Doublestrike and Melee Alacrity for Doubleshot and Ranged alacrity.

Are you saying there are more ranged builds online at any given time than melee builds?

[Ulfo]

Spellcasters don't need any of those, and dex isn't needed by int builds.

I see many times ( and run too 8) ) when wizard or cleric take Greatsword instead caster stick, especially in low lvl. At higher lvl just change to caster setup with caster ability boost.

DEX is universal clearly for same reason as CON - any build can use additional AC and Reflex save, include int builds ( save feat slot ).

Same for CHA - any build can use additional points in UMD or Diplo/Inti/Bluff.

Neither melee nor range builds need spell pen. "Universal" means literally every build can benefit from it.

It's correct. Common then as wizardry (Though... everyone can use additional Wizardry for cast more Cocoon... so... Wizardry/Devotion is universal? 8) ).

Lots of builds splash trapping skills, though.

Yea, but nevertheless trap skillz is technically nishe skillz, surely not mandatory or majority. 8)

Are you saying there are more ranged builds online at any given time than melee builds?

In my experience - yes.

[Torkzed]

Regarding your demand table, there is a lot of stuff that will be rated according to personal taste, but it is a cool idea to try to get a consensus.

As a guy who plays caster more than melee, I doubt I would ever pay much to craft wizardry. Shrines are fairly plentiful, and folks who are experienced enough to craft gear sets are likely reasonably good at being spell point efficient. As such, I would move wizardry down to uncommon. (Maybe it is more valuable to non-spell casters, actually?)

I'd move spell penetration up to uncommon. I get that it is a smallish set of builds that want it, but they want it pretty bad by mid-teen levels and higher.

If the melee DPS stuff is common, id move many spell caster things up to at least uncommon from niche. (lore, spell power, spell focus).

Overall, it looks like you did a pretty good cut at it though!

[EllisDee37]

DEX is universal clearly for same reason as CON - any build can use additional AC and Reflex save, include int builds ( save feat slot ).

An int build who gears for dex to save a feat slot will be losing reflex save, not gaining.

I suspect you may value AC more than the average player. You may very well be right about AC, but I don't get the feeling that every person cares about AC as much as they care about hit points.

Same for CHA - any build can use additional points in UMD or Diplo/Inti/Bluff.

I typically build for 39 UMD. If I can reach that without a charisma item I don't wear a charisma item for UMD, and it's not hard to get there if you splash rogue levels. My tempest trapmonkey, for example, doesn't wear a charisma item.

It's correct. Common then as wizardry (Though... everyone can use additional Wizardry for cast more Cocoon... so... Wizardry/Devotion is universal? 8) ).

Pale Masters don't need devotion, but yeah, melee using wizardry and devotion for cocoon is why they're rated as common.

Yea, but nevertheless trap skillz is technically nishe skillz, surely not mandatory or majority. 8)

Agreed that the majority of builds aren't trappers, for sure. However, I would say that more builds have trapping skills than do DC casting, for example.

In my experience - yes.

I think you've convinced me on range; I'll move ranged alacrity and doubleshot up to equal with melee alacrity and doublestrike.

I'd move spell penetration up to uncommon. I get that it is a smallish set of builds that want it, but they want it pretty bad by mid-teen levels and higher.

That's exactly the description of the niche category.

[EllisDee37]

I moved up Ranged Alacrity and Doubleshot from Uncommon to Common.


I was thinking, should Sonic Resistance move up to Obsolete? I could see people slotting a draconic soul gem for Acid, Cold, Electricity and Fire and then trying to work sonic resistance into their build so that they can skip the cargo hold entirely. It would be preferable to slot sonic resistance as an augment, and that's exactly what the obsolete category is for.

[cdbd3rd]

...

Are you saying there are more ranged builds online at any given time than melee builds?

Before the New Thing, I would occasionally craft a couple unbound Alacrity shards and AH them. [one Ranged, one Melee] Invariably, the Ranged would sell the first day, while the melee would not sell for a week or two. I'd say Ranged shards have a higher demand than Melee.


-----------

edit: Noticed after posting:

I moved up Ranged Alacrity and Doubleshot from Uncommon to Common...

I'll never remember to finish reading threads before replying.

[EllisDee37]

I think I was biased by the great 10th anniversary give-away, where I picked up a dozen quivers of alacrity for all my playable alts on both my accounts. So every character I have has a minimum of 10% ranged alacrity from level 1 on. (And also 30% striding, since I spent a month or so upgrading all of them.)

[SirValentine]

A factor to consider for demand is crafting leveling.

You don't need any collectibles to level quite high, and certain recipes are only useful after you cap.

But there's a window in there where the only recipes that give you crafting XP require a certain set of collectibles, even if those recipes would be otherwise worthless.

[Frogger1234]

With the electricity damage in the new raid, elemental resistance and absorption for electricity might not be rarely used any more. Depending on how many people run the raid and craft their protection item.

[EllisDee37]

A factor to consider for demand is crafting leveling.

You don't need any collectibles to level quite high, and certain recipes are only useful after you cap.

But there's a window in there where the only recipes that give you crafting XP require a certain set of collectibles, even if those recipes would be otherwise worthless.

That's a good thought, but I think the percentage of players aiming for crafting level 400 is low enough that the net effect on demand would be negligible. 311 (?) lets you craft literally everything bound. Combine that with the ridiculous expense of unbound crafting and I think the overwhelming majority stop around 325.

With the electricity damage in the new raid, elemental resistance and absorption for electricity might not be rarely used any more. Depending on how many people run the raid and craft their protection item.

Good call. Seems reasonable to bump both up to niche, yes?

I could see someone wanting the following, available as a swap item on either a shield or a trinket:

Electricity Absorption 38 of Electric Resistance 57 w/Insightful Electric Resistance 28

[SuperNiCd]

First, great idea!

I'd say your table is pretty spot on with the types of things I craft. After having crafted vampirism on something and observing the effects I'd likely never do it again, because it seems to me it has some kind of cooldown between procs. I'm just not sure it's worth it's cost in collectibles and I'd probably leave it blank if there was nothing else to put there. So with that I'd have probably put it in rarely used. But maybe if you have significant healing amp and low HP it could be useful...

[Gargoyle69]

Awesome work ED37. It's this sort of thing that you do over and over again for the DDO community, you're a legend

I would propose bumping ratings on two skills from Niche to Uncommon: Concentration and Intimidate.

Rationale:

Concentration - I would argue that this is more Uncommon than Niche, as there a number of builds that use it. Monks it's their primary skill, many casters and healers take it as standard, and some other builds take it to stop their scrolls from being interupted.

Intimidate - I would argue that reaper has increased the number of tanks, quasi-tanks and 'tank-like' builds around, and that hopefully they are therefore more like Uncommon than niche now.

What do you think ?

[Zeleron]

Awesome work ED37. It's this sort of thing that you do over and over again for the DDO community, you're a legend

I would propose bumping ratings on two skills from Niche to Uncommon: Concentration and Intimidate.

Rationale:

Concentration - I would argue that this is more Uncommon than Niche, as there a number of builds that use it. Monks it's their primary skill, many casters and healers take it as standard, and some other builds take it to stop their scrolls from being interupted.

Intimidate - I would argue that reaper has increased the number of tanks, quasi-tanks and 'tank-like' builds around, and that hopefully they are therefore more like Uncommon than niche now.

What do you think ?

And bump up spellsight, especially with the influx of warlocks for racial reincarnations. Spellsight = spellcraft which is a Class skill for Artificers, Bards, Clerics, Druids, Favored Souls, Sorcerers, Warlocks, and Wizards(according to the wiki)

[Gargoyle69]

And bump up spellsight, especially with the influx of warlocks for racial reincarnations. Spellsight = spellcraft which is a Class skill for Artificers, Bards, Clerics, Druids, Favored Souls, Sorcerers, Warlocks, and Wizards(according to the wiki)

And useful for Arcane Archers too!