Now that we have reaper mode..

[losian2]

Maybe it's time to toy with elite difficulty for some quests. For example, was running the lead-in series to Eveningstar, the stuff in harbor, on elite. Two players, just second and third lifers, two hirelings and two VIP freebie alabaster cats.

We started to notice how wide the difficulties gap is between hard and elite. On hard it was borderline a snooze fest, on elite our hirelings, who were fully buffed with resists, died instantly just a few rooms in to casters. Zero time to react or manage, which happens sure, it's DDO, but over and over. I know, we should use cookie cutter min max broken builds and come back with twenty past lives and sixteen hotbars of raid clickies and learn 2 play and all that. :P But bear with me a moment.

Maybe, instead, elite can cool it on the one ******** with some quests and leave that to reaper. I know elite had to provide done challenge to a huge range of characters and lives/builds, and I'm not suggesting universally easier. It should be harder than hard, but the gap between hard and elite seems huge, whereas elite to reaper 1 is tiny. Anything we could do elite we could do reaper 1, anything we couldn't do reaper 1 we couldn't do elite, and it was just as much a curb stomp. I guess that's what seemed wonky to me specifically. Maybe difficultly should curve a little less sharply now that reaper exists to help provide a more varied upper end - elite doesn't have to catch all anymore.

Tl;Dr - elite should be harder than hard, but the gap from hard to elite feels like a mile wide while elite to reaper 1 is an inch, total gimme.

[Malex]

for starters: are you talking heroic or epic?
Becuase the gap from EH to EE sure is big, but from HH to HE.. not so much.

Also, really, bringing out the argument about 20 past lives and min-max toons.. on lord of dust??
The easiest EE in the whole game?
If that's the case, I think you are doing something wrong.

Really, I'm not a min maxer: I played 3 pure 20 class until today, and on the second life a TYWA THF pure barbarian was handling LoD (solo) easly on elite. And TYWA is far, far, far away from a min-max build, it's pretty weak actually.
I also did it on pure sorc (no min-maxing possible with a pure sorc: your feat selection is basically THAT..), havent tried solo on my 1st life (pure wizard), but still 2 people where enough.

It might depend on playstyle/experience on how to play your toon, but it's not the build or the past lives that matter for those quests, just player skill.

If you were talking other stuff, like at level trial of the archons/devil's gambit, it would be anohther talk.

[Powerhungry]

Maybe it's time to toy with elite difficulty for some quests. For example, was running the lead-in series to Eveningstar, the stuff in harbor, on elite. Two players, just second and third lifers, two hirelings and two VIP freebie alabaster cats.

We started to notice how wide the difficulties gap is between hard and elite. On hard it was borderline a snooze fest, on elite our hirelings, who were fully buffed with resists, died instantly just a few rooms in to casters. Zero time to react or manage, which happens sure, it's DDO, but over and over. I know, we should use cookie cutter min max broken builds and come back with twenty past lives and sixteen hotbars of raid clickies and learn 2 play and all that. :P But bear with me a moment.

Maybe, instead, elite can cool it on the one ******** with some quests and leave that to reaper. I know elite had to provide done challenge to a huge range of characters and lives/builds, and I'm not suggesting universally easier. It should be harder than hard, but the gap between hard and elite seems huge, whereas elite to reaper 1 is tiny. Anything we could do elite we could do reaper 1, anything we couldn't do reaper 1 we couldn't do elite, and it was just as much a curb stomp. I guess that's what seemed wonky to me specifically. Maybe difficultly should curve a little less sharply now that reaper exists to help provide a more varied upper end - elite doesn't have to catch all anymore.

Tl;Dr - elite should be harder than hard, but the gap from hard to elite feels like a mile wide while elite to reaper 1 is an inch, total gimme.

If the hirelings were healers the AI will always target them first. I've had mobs run past my greataxe wielding, cleaving barbarian to get to the hireling outside the room. Or head straight to the passive, invis'ed around the corner hireling...

[Qhualor]

keep in mind not everyone is playing Reaper. I'm not just talking about me because I have met some players that don't run it at all or run Reaper on occasion. if elite was made easier than my incentive to group would be diminished even more than it is. sounds like OP doesn't have a problem with sticking to a difficulty that is more comfortable, so its just too bad n/h/e wasn't better balanced. I also wouldn't gauge a difficulty on how well hires do compared to hard and normal.

[changelingamuck]

so its just too bad n/h/e wasn't better balanced.

They were balanced... the balance just got broken by excessive power creep/not nerfing things that needed to be nerfed.

[Cantor]

Hard should be brought up, not elite down to smooth the curve.

[SirValentine]

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Cantor again."

Hard should be brought up, not elite down to smooth the curve.

Exactly that. Elite isn't too hard. Hard is too easy. Hard should be, well, hard, not, as the OP says, a snoozefest.

But the devs don't want to rebalance difficulties. As long as R10 isn't a snoozefest, they can declare victory at "providing challenge".

[EllisDee37]

Hard should be brought up, not elite down to smooth the curve.

Exactly right.

[Annex]

If the developers bring down Elite / Epic Elite, it spoils the game for players who currently enjoy those difficulties. If the developers bring up Hard / Epic Hard, it likewise spoils the game for some players. I am always very reluctant to propose or support any change that benefits one group of people at the direct expense of another group of people. It just makes for more anger and bile.

A difficulty between Hard and Elite, between Epic Hard and Epic Elite, makes some sense but frankly, switching classes and/or tactics will achieve the same result. While not "fair", DDO went down a design route strongly favoring certain play styles--crowd control and ranged. If you choose to play outside that small box the game becomes much harder.

With regard hires, I always considered them fulfilling three purposes. First, they allow solo players to experience DDO in the same manner as a "solo with group" game like Might and Magic.* Second, hires help new players cover deficiencies in their characters, usually in the form of extra healing. Finally, hires help experimenting players with truly problematic characters get to L20 or L30 so they can swap into something else. In my opinion, hires were not designed to work in high difficulty environments because high difficulty environments were never intended for problematic characters. In other words, Elite / Epic Elite difficulty was designed for strong characters, only weak characters need hires, therefore hires need not perform in Elite / Epic Elite difficulty.

One could argue that, at this late phase of the game, some sort of compromise aimed at solo and small group players, allowing them to more easily succeed at higher difficulties, would benefit the game in the form of higher revenue. If you make that argument, get ready for a long debate. If the game did go that route, I would suggest, rather that adjusting difficulties, adding a new class of Platinum Seal hires. Of course, this begs a difficult question--if everyone has access to Platinum Seal hires and Platinum Seal Hires allow almost any character to succeed at Elite difficulty, why have Casual, Normal, and Hard difficulties?

Anyway, I totally understand your frustration having no proper difficulty for your characters. DDO went down a strange design path resulting in gigantic power gaps between characters at the same level. For what it is worth, in time, even weak characters ultimately become strong. Good luck!




* DDO could do much better in this regard, offering hires that level with a character.