Trapper Cleric

[khattiya]

I’m getting ready for a cleric life, but didn’t want to give up trapping. I usually rely on repeating crossbows, so I decided to try out great crossbows as an additional change of pace. The rogue enhancements seem stronger than the artificer enhancements for a great crossbow build, so I decided to splash rogue for trapping skills.

I considered 1 level of rogue just for trapping skills, 2 levels of rogue for evasion, and 5 levels of rogue to unlock tier 5 enhancements. I decided to build for 5 levels of rogue. That way I’ll be able to swap between rogue and cleric tier 5 enhancements if I want to.

I focused on keeping disable device, open lock, search, and spot maximized. After that, I prioritized heal and UMD, which I was also able to maximize. And after that, I focused on jump, which I got to 15. The first level of rogue gave me some extra skill points which I spread out amongst bluff, balance, hide, move silently, tumble, and concentration.
I know some people like to minimize the points in spot and open lock, but I like being able to see stealthed mobs and unlock stuff.

For enhancements, I started off with Arbalester and Lacerating Shots from Mechanic to give the great crossbow a little kick. Then I focused on Harper Agent to get Strategic Combat I and II. Then I focused on Radiant Servant for Positive Energy Burst and Endless Turning. And finally, I focused on the Mechanic enhancements to buff the effectiveness of my great crossbow.
After I had the enhancements in order, I rearranged my class order so that I took the Rogue levels when I was ready to select from the next tier of Mechanic enhancements.

I made an attempt at reasonable spell selections, but figure I can swap those around easily enough. Except for Blade Barrier, I mostly focused on healing and buffing.

For feats, I took Empower Healing Spell and Quicken for the Positive Energy Burst, and focused the rest on ranged damage. I’m missing Empower and Maximize. I guess I can swap those in if the healing seems too weak. I’m thinking Precision would be one of the feats I might swap out.

Feedback is welcome and appreciated. Thanks.

New Build
15/5 Cleric/Rogue
True Neutral Drow


Level Order

1. Rogue . . . . . 6. Cleric. . . . .11. Rogue. . . . . 16. Cleric
2. Cleric . . . . .7. Cleric . . . . 12. Rogue . . . . .17. Rogue
3. Cleric . . . . .8. Cleric . . . . 13. Cleric . . . . 18. Cleric
4. Cleric . . . . .9. Cleric . . . . 14. Rogue . . . . .19. Cleric
5. Cleric . . . . 10. Cleric . . . . 15. Cleric . . . . 20. Cleric


Stats
. . . . . . . .30pt. . .32pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .----. . .---- . . ---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 10 . . . .8. . . .+7. . . .4: INT
Dexterity . . . 16 . . . 16. . . .+7. . . .8: INT
Constitution. . .8 . . . .6. . . .+7. . . 12: INT
Intelligence. . 18 . . . 20. . . .+7. . . 16: INT
Wisdom. . . . . 16 . . . 16. . . .+7. . . 20: INT
Charisma. . . . 10 . . . 10. . . .+7. . . 24: INT
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28: INT

Skills
. . . . . R .C .C .C .C .C .C .C .C .C .R. R .C .R. C. C. R .C .C .C
. . . . . 1 .2 .3 .4 .5 .6 .7 .8 .9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Heal. . . 2 . . . . . . . . . .1 .1 .1 .5. 5 .1 .1. 1. 1. . .1 .1 .2 .23
Disable . 4 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1. 1 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1 .1 .1 .1 .23
Open Lo . 4 .½ .½ .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .2. 1 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1 .1 .1 .1 .23
Search. . 4 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1. 1 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1 .1 .1 .1 .23
Spot. . . 4 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1. 1 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1 .1 .1 .1 .23
UMD . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2. ½ 10. ½. 1. 2 .1 .1 .1 .23
Jump. . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .11 . . . . . 15
Bluff . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Balance . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Hide. . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Move Si . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Tumble. . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Concent . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .52 .7 .7 .8 .8 .8 .8 .9 .9 .9 15 16 10 16 10 11 17 11 11 12


Feats

.1. . . . : Point Blank Shot
.2 Deity. : Follower of: Vulkoor
.3. . . . : Empower Healing Spell
.6. . . . : Quicken Spell
.7 Deity. : Child of: Vulkoor
.9. . . . : Precise Shot
12. . . . : Precision
15. . . . : Improved Critical: Ranged
18. . . . : Improved Precise Shot
21 Epic . : Combat Archery
24 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
26 Destiny: Holy Strike
27 Epic . : Blinding Speed
28 Destiny: Doubleshot
29 Destiny: Deific Warding
30 Epic . : Watchful Eye
30 Legend : Scion of: Ethereal Plane


Spells

Cleric

1. Cure Light Wounds, Nightshield, Remove Fear, Divine Favor, Obscuring Mist, Protection from Evil
2. Cure Moderate Wounds, Lesser Restoration, Resist Energy, Aid, Remove Paralysis, Soundburst
3. Cure Serious Wounds, Prayer, Magic Circle Against Evil, Protection from Energy, Mass Aid, Blindness
4. Cure Critical Wounds, Death Ward, Freedom of Movement, Restoration, Recitation, Divine Power
5. Mass Cure Light Wounds, Protection from Elements, Raise Dead, True Seeing, Stalwart Pact, Spell Resistance
6. Mass Cure Moderate Wounds, Blade Barrier, Heal, Heroes' Feast, Word of Recall
7. Mass Cure Serious Wounds, Greater Restoration, Resurrection, Mass Protection from Elements
8. Mass Cure Critical Wounds, Death Pact, Holy Aura

Enhancements (80 AP)

Mechanic (44 AP)

• Arbalester, Tanglefoot
  1. Sharpshooter, Lacerating Shots III, Mechanics III, Awareness III
  2. Sharpshooter, Improved Traps I, Skill Boost III
  3. Sharpshooter, Intelligence
  4. Sharpshooter, Fletching III, Leg Shot, Intelligence
  5. Sharpshooter, Rapid Fire III, Time Bomb III, Sniper, Mechanical Reloader

Radiant Servant (23 AP)

• Healing Domain, Pacifism, Positive Energy Burst, Improved Empower Healing
  1. Extra Turning III, Wand Mastery III
  2. Improved Turning III, Efficient Empower Healing III
  3. Unyielding Sovereignty
  4. Endless Turning I

Harper Agent (13 AP)

• Agent of Good I
  1. Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat, Awareness III
  2. Know the Angles III
  3. Strategic Combat

Leveling Guide

1. Mec0 Arbalester; Mec1 Lacerating Shots I, II, III
2. Hrp0 Agent of Good I; Hrp1 Strategic Combat; Hrp1 Awareness I
3. Hrp1 Harper Enchantment; Hrp1 Awareness II, III
4. Hrp2 Know the Angles I, II; Hrp3 Strategic Combat
5. Rad0 Healing Domain; Rad1 Extra Turning I, II, III
6. Rad1 Wand Mastery I; Rad0 Pacifism; Rad2 Improved Turning I, II
7. Rad2 Improved Turning III; Rad2 Efficient Empower Healing I; Rad0 Positive Energy Burst
8. Rad2 Efficient Empower Healing II; Rad3 Unyielding Sovereignty
9. Rad2 Efficient Empower Healing III; Rad1 Wand Mastery II, III
10. Rad4 Endless Turning I; Mec1 Sharpshooter
11. Mec2 Sharpshooter; Mec1 Mechanics I, II
12. Mec3 Sharpshooter; Mec3 Intelligence
13. Mec1 Mechanics III; Mec1 Awareness I, II, III
14. Mec0 Tanglefoot; Mec2 Improved Traps I; Mec4 Leg Shot
15. Mec4 Intelligence; Mec4 Sharpshooter
16. Mec4 Fletching I, II, III; Mec2 Skill Boost I
17. Mec5 Sniper; Mec5 Mechanical Reloader
18. Mec5 Sharpshooter; Mec5 Rapid Fire I, II
19. Mec5 Rapid Fire III; Rad0 Improved Empower Healing; Hrp2 Know the Angles III; Mec5 Time Bomb I
20. Mec5 Time Bomb II, III; Mec2 Skill Boost II, III

[EllisDee37]

For skills, on your cleric levels I would take heal instead of open lock, then play catch up during rogue levels with open lock instead of heal. That doubles all those points since it switches from cross-class to native skills both ways.

With all the extra skill points you could probably max Jump while still keeping all your other skills maxed too.

[khattiya]

For skills, on your cleric levels I would take heal instead of open lock, then play catch up during rogue levels with open lock instead of heal. That doubles all those points since it switches from cross-class to native skills both ways.

With all the extra skill points you could probably max Jump while still keeping all your other skills maxed too.

Wow. I didn't think it would make that much difference.

Open Lock lags behind until level 11 without monkeying around with the class levels, and taking the last three levels as a cleric limits the skill point pool for playing catch up. I don't think I'd trade delaying my enhancement selections for being able to top off a few more skills, however. That brings Jump to 20 and Balance up to 15. Wow. Thanks.

Skills
. . . . . R .C .C .C .C .C .C .C .C .C .R. R .C .R. C. C. R .C .C .C
. . . . . 1 .2 .3 .4 .5 .6 .7 .8 .9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Heal. . . 2 .1 .1 .2 .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . . .2 . . 2. 2. . .1 .1 .2 .23
Disable . 4 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1. 1 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1 .1 .1 .1 .23
Open Lo . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .10 .1. 1. 1 .1 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Search. . 4 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1. 1 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1 .1 .1 .1 .23
Spot. . . 4 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1. 1 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1 .1 .1 .1 .23
UMD . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 .2. . .9. . . . 3 .1 .1 .1 .23
Jump. . . 4 . . . . . . .½ .½ .1 .1 .1 . . 7 . . 2 . . . .3. . . . . .20
Balance . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .3. . .1. . . . 7 . . . . . 15
Bluff . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Hide. . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Move Si . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Tumble. . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Concent . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1 . . . . . . . 3
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .52 .7 .7 .8 .8 .8 .8 .9 .9 .9 15 16 10 16 10 11 17 11 11 12

[C-Dog]

I'd bump the 2nd level of Rogue to Lvl 9 (or even 7?). I know it delays some good spells by -1 char Lvl, but this character seems like ranged first, caster second, and I think you'll find even more skill points in there. And Mech II +2 to damage, plus a +6 skill boost for DD, more than makes up for that. (And if going w/ Light Armour, Evasion starts to be really useful about Lvl 5 quests, so the sooner the better there imo.)

I'd also hold off on Lacerating Shot and focus on Harper right out of the gate (okay, ~maybe~ after 1 AP for Arbalester). LS scales w/ 200 ranged power, but Int to damage + KtA by the end of Level 4 is just money. (And, speaking just for myself, I find it hard to rely on that "bleed over time" thing, too. Spreading out the love and relying on that to take an enemy down is an art I have not mastered.)

[khattiya]

I'd bump the 2nd level of Rogue to Lvl 9 (or even 7?). I know it delays some good spells by -1 char Lvl, but this character seems like ranged first, caster second, and I think you'll find even more skill points in there. And Mech II +2 to damage, plus a +6 skill boost for DD, more than makes up for that. (And if going w/ Light Armour, Evasion starts to be really useful about Lvl 5 quests, so the sooner the better there imo.)

I'd also hold off on Lacerating Shot and focus on Harper right out of the gate (okay, ~maybe~ after 1 AP for Arbalester). LS scales w/ 200 ranged power, but Int to damage + KtA by the end of Level 4 is just money. (And, speaking just for myself, I find it hard to rely on that "bleed over time" thing, too. Spreading out the love and relying on that to take an enemy down is an art I have not mastered.)

I tried moving the Rogue level to 7, and then realized that would delay Positive Energy Burst by a level, so I think I'd rather not do that. I'll try moving it to level 9 or 8 later today since gaining Evasion earlier is a good idea. For what it's worth, I didn't find any extra skill points. That could be because the max points per skill is lower at the earlier class level. I'll redo the skills when I try moving the Rogue level to make sure I'm not allocating them inefficiently again.

I appreciate the comparison between Lacerating Shots and Know the Angles. I'll reset my enhancements to try them both.

I couldn't really fit in the Skill Boost until later levels. If I stick with picking up Positive Energy Burst at level 7, I can get the full Skill Boost by level 10, but that means delaying Endless Turning. I guess I can reset my enhancements here, too, depending on whether the trapping skills need boosting vs. how much I'm relying on PEB being regenerated. Picking up the Harper Agent skills first, the earliest I could get the full Skill Boost is level 7, so taking it early and then resetting the enhancements to pick up PEB doesn't seem feasible.

Thanks for the feedback.

[unbongwah]

This is a feat-starved build and you forgot Rapid Reload, so I definitely recommend human instead of drow. Also dump-stating CON is...ill-advised. If anything you should dump-stat WIS; this isn't a DC-centric caster build and between tome+gear you can hit WIS 18 for lvl 8 spells easily enough. I'm also thinking Olladra is a better deity choice, just for the Luck bonus to stats from the lvl 6 ability.

If possible I would move up rogue lvls so you hit rog 5 by lvl 12; you really want your T5 Mechanic abilities ASAP, particularly if you plan to use gt xbows. I was thinking rog 1, cleric 1-7, rog 2-5, cleric 8-15; that lets you get Radiant Burst & lvl 4 spells ASAP while getting T5 Mechanic at lvl 12. That might mess up your skill pts, but it's not like you really need 11 extra ranks of Jump, do you?

I don't think it's worth spending more than 13 APs in RS for burst+Unyielding Sovereignty; I also don't think Mechanic traps are worthwhile on a MCed build like this, because DCs are based on # of rog lvls as well as INT. So that would free a bunch of APs you could spend in Harper (Versatile Adept for moar RP), Assassin (extra SAs, Venomed Blades), or racial tree (heal amp if you switch to human).

Finally if you're willing to do some equipment farming before TRing, I would definitely try to acquire a Leverage and Divine Artillery.

[C-Dog]

I didn't even notice the 8 Con. Now that I think about it, in the back of my mind I had been wondering how he found the skill points so easily.

Yeah - in a typical effort along these lines, the "Trapper" part would have to get along on Search + Disable Device at full, make due with 4 levels of Open Lock + Gear, and let all else lapse (with UMD on the short list, if at all). For vet players who know approx where to start looking for the traps in the first place.

...For what it's worth, I didn't find any extra skill points. That could be because the max points per skill is lower at the earlier class level. I'll redo the skills when I try moving the Rogue level to make sure I'm not allocating them inefficiently again...

The trick, as Ellis demonstrated, is to abandon the whole dedication to "all skills must be kept at max!". Let x-class skills lapse, focus on in-class skills while the points are worth more there, then "play catch up" at Rogue levels. Same w/ starting skills - maybe look at NOT putting Rogue skills into Heal, and taking 4 in something else (or, if less Int, not at all, ahem).

Of course, if you take Ung's suggestion of early Rogue Levels, nm.

[khattiya]

If possible I would move up rogue lvls so you hit rog 5 by lvl 12; you really want your T5 Mechanic abilities ASAP, particularly if you plan to use gt xbows. I was thinking rog 1, cleric 1-7, rog 2-5, cleric 8-15; that lets you get Radiant Burst & lvl 4 spells ASAP while getting T5 Mechanic at lvl 12.

I'd also hold off on Lacerating Shot and focus on Harper right out of the gate (okay, ~maybe~ after 1 AP for Arbalester). LS scales w/ 200 ranged power, but Int to damage + KtA by the end of Level 4 is just money.

I'm trying to reconcile these two suggestions as I rework the build. I'm looking at 13 enhancement points in Radiant Servant, 39 in Mechanic, and 8 in Harper Agent (just to get Know the Angles).

Between Radiant Servant and Mechanic, I can start taking T5 enhancements at level 11, and need a full 13 levels to get all of the T5 enhancements (Sniper, Mechanical Reloader, Sharpshooter, and Rapid Fire).

If I take KtA first, I push everything back 2 levels (8 enhancement points). And if I go for T3 Strategic Combat, that's another level (2 more enhancement points to unlock it and 2 more to take it).

Am I better off 1) taking Harper Agent through KtA or T3 Strategic Combat first, 2) taking Radiant Servant and Mechanic first, or 3) starting off with Harper Agent and resetting my enhancements at level 11 or 12 (only 1 enhancement point for T5 at level 11 - so that would limit me to Rapid Fire I; probably better to wait one level) (and taking T5 at level 11 would require interrupting the cleric levels at 6 instead of 7).

Hopefully, I'm not being obtuse. Thanks for all the helpful advice.

[EllisDee37]

You aren't allowed to take Tier 5 enhancements until Level 12, so no worries about trying to squeeze them in by 11. As a general rule, I personally consider finishing tier 5s by the end of level 13 as fine, 15 at the latest.

[Dielzen]

Don't waste all those skill points in Search. Find Traps is your friend.

[unbongwah]

Am I better off 1) taking Harper Agent through KtA or T3 Strategic Combat first, 2) taking Radiant Servant and Mechanic first, or 3) starting off with Harper Agent and resetting my enhancements at level 11 or 12 (only 1 enhancement point for T5 at level 11 - so that would limit me to Rapid Fire I; probably better to wait one level) (and taking T5 at level 11 would require interrupting the cleric levels at 6 instead of 7).

If it were up to me, I'd focus on Harper up thru T3 Strategic Combat (12 APs) for INT to dmg ASAP; then focus on Mechanic; then focus on RS. But odds are you will reset your Enhancements regularly, particularly if you follow my leveling suggestion; you won't be able to take T2-5 Mechanic until char lvls 9-12, so you might as well spend your APs elsewhere until you get there.

As a general rule, I personally consider finishing tier 5s by the end of level 13 as fine, 15 at the latest.

For some builds I would agree, but Sniper+Mechanical Reloader is really sweet on a gt xbow build, IMO, so I would definitely want those ASAP. I certainly wouldn't want to wait beyond lvl 13 which is also when you can equip Divine Artillery.

[EllisDee37]

Here's my take on the build concept. Differences in philosophy between this and the build in the OP are as follows:

1. Cleric spells are more than enough healing for heroics. Thus, until you get your Tier 5s all squared away, don't even worry about positive energy burst.
2. I dropped Empower Healing Spell, took Insightful Reflexes instead. (This is an INT build, and cleric healing is very strong.)
3. I took Rapid Shot with the Human bonus feat, and dropped Quicken to fit in Rapid Reload. If you really want Quicken, I think I'd take it instead of Overwhelming Critical @ 21.
4. Unbongwah's right: This build will want as many Tier 5s as early as possible.
5. I spaced out the rogue levels evenly to try and get the most out of skills. The 5th rogue level now comes at 13.

Trapper Cleric
15/5 Cleric/Rogue
True Neutral Human


Level Order

1. Rogue           6. Cleric         11. Cleric         16. Cleric
2. Cleric          7. Rogue          12. Cleric         17. Cleric
3. Cleric          8. Cleric         13. Rogue          18. Cleric
4. Rogue           9. Cleric         14. Cleric         19. Cleric
5. Cleric         10. Rogue          15. Cleric         20. Cleric


Stats
               34pt     36pt     Tome     Level Up
               ----     ----     ----     --------
Strength         8       10       +7       4: INT
Dexterity       16       16       +7       8: INT
Constitution    14       14       +7      12: INT
Intelligence    18       18       +7      16: INT
Wisdom          10       10       +7      20: INT
Charisma         8        8       +7      24: INT
                                          28: INT

Skills
          R  C  C  R  C  C  R  C  C  R  C  C  R  C  C  C  C  C  C  C
          1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
         ------------------------------------------------------------
Disable   4        3  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Open Lo   4        3        3        3        3  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Search    4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Spot      4        3     1  2  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
UMD       4        3        3        3        3  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Concent   2  2  2     2  1     2  1     2  1  1        1  1  1  1  2  22
Jump      4                 4        5        3                       16
Heal         3  3     2  1     1  2     1  1                          14
Balance   4        1                 1     1  2                        9
Bluff     4                                                            4
Diplo     4                                                            4
Intim     4                                                            4
Haggle    4                                                            4
Swim      3                                                            3
Tumble    1                                                            1
         ------------------------------------------------------------
         52  7  7 14  8  8 14  9  9 15  9 10 16 10 10 11 11 11 11 12


Feats

 1        : Point Blank Shot
 1 Human  : Rapid Shot
 2 Deity  : Follower of: Sovereign Host
 3        : Rapid Reload
 6        : Precision
 9        : Insightful Reflexes
 9 Deity  : Unyielding Sovereignty
12        : Improved Critical: Ranged
15        : Precise Shot
18        : Improved Precise Shot
21 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic   : Combat Archery
26 Destiny: Pierce Damage Reduction: Cold Iron
27 Epic   : Blinding Speed
28 Destiny: Doubleshot
29 Destiny: Embodiment of Law
30 Epic   : Epic Damage Reduction
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea


Spells

Cleric
Cure Light Wounds, Nightshield, Protection from Evil, Divine Favor, <Any>, <Any>
Cure Moderate Wounds, Find Traps, Resist Energy, <Any>, <Any>, <Any>
Cure Serious Wounds, Magic Circle Against Evil, Protection from Energy, <Any>, <Any>, <Any>
Cure Critical Wounds, Death Ward, Freedom of Movement, <Any>, <Any>, <Any>
Mass Cure Light Wounds, Raise Dead, True Seeing, Spell Resistance, <Any>, <Any>
Mass Cure Moderate Wounds, Heal, Blade Barrier, <Any>, <Any>
Mass Cure Serious Wounds, Greater Restoration, Mass Protection from Elements, Resurrection
Mass Cure Critical Wounds, Mass Death Ward, <Any>

Enhancements (80 AP)

Mechanic (39 AP)
Arbalester
Sharpshooter, Lacerating Shots III, Mechanics III, Awareness III
Sharpshooter
Sharpshooter, Wracking Shot III, Intelligence
Sharpshooter, Fletching III, Leg Shot, Intelligence
Sharpshooter, Rapid Fire III, Sniper, Mechanical Reloader
Radiant Servant (23 AP)
Healing Domain, Pacifism, Positive Energy Burst, Improved Empower Healing
Extra Turning III, Wand Mastery III
Improved Turning III
Intense Healing III, Unyielding Sovereignty
Endless Turning I
Harper Agent (12 AP)
Agent of Good I
Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
Versatile Adept II, Know the Angles III
Strategic Combat
Human (6 AP)
Damage Boost, Intelligence, Saves Boost
Improved Recovery
Leveling Guide
Mec0 Arbalester; Hrp0 Agent of Good I; Hrp1 Strategic Combat
Hrp1 Harper Enchantment; Hrp2 Versatile Adept I, II
Hrp2 Know the Angles I, II, III; Mec1 Awareness I
Hrp3 Strategic Combat; Mec1 Sharpshooter
Mec1 Lacerating Shots I; Mec2 Sharpshooter; Mec1 Lacerating Shots II
Mec1 Lacerating Shots III; Mec1 Mechanics I, II, III
Mec3 Sharpshooter; Mec1 Awareness II, III
Mec3 Wracking Shot I, II, III; (Bank 1 AP)
(Bank 5 AP)
Mec3 Intelligence; Mec4 Intelligence; Mec4 Fletching I, II, III; Mec4 Sharpshooter
Mec4 Leg Shot; (Bank 2 AP)
(Bank 6 AP)
Mec5 Mechanical Reloader; Mec5 Sniper; Mec5 Rapid Fire I, II, III; Mec5 Sharpshooter; Hum0 Damage Boost
Hum1 Improved Recovery; Hum0 Intelligence
Hum0 Saves Boost; Rad0 Healing Domain; Rad1 Extra Turning I, II
Rad1 Extra Turning III; Rad1 Wand Mastery I, II, III
Rad0 Pacifism; Rad2 Improved Turning I, II; Rad0 Positive Energy Burst
Rad3 Unyielding Sovereignty; Rad3 Intense Healing I
Rad3 Intense Healing II, III
Rad2 Improved Turning III; Rad4 Endless Turning I; Rad0 Improved Empower Healing

One thing of note: Human Saves Boost is great for things like the crucible swim because while it's active, you no longer auto-fail on a roll of 1. That means if you can get your trap saves up to 35, while the boost is active (so now 39) you cannot possibly be hurt by traps during the swim.

Reviewing this build, I think I might redo the leveling order to race to cleric 3 (cure moderate) and get 5 rogue levels by 12 for Tier 5s. Then I'd take a 6th rogue level @ 20 to maximize skills.

EDIT: Here's that variation, and I think I like it better:

Trapper Cleric
14/6 Cleric/Rogue
True Neutral Human


Level Order

1. Rogue           6. Cleric         11. Cleric         16. Cleric
2. Cleric          7. Cleric         12. Rogue          17. Cleric
3. Cleric          8. Rogue          13. Cleric         18. Cleric
4. Cleric          9. Cleric         14. Cleric         19. Cleric
5. Rogue          10. Rogue          15. Cleric         20. Rogue


Stats
               34pt     36pt     Tome     Level Up
               ----     ----     ----     --------
Strength         8       10       +7       4: INT
Dexterity       16       16       +7       8: INT
Constitution    14       14       +7      12: INT
Intelligence    18       18       +7      16: INT
Wisdom          10       10       +7      20: INT
Charisma         8        8       +7      24: INT
                                          28: INT

Skills
          R  C  C  C  R  C  C  R  C  R  C  R  C  C  C  C  C  C  C  R
          1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
         ------------------------------------------------------------
Concent   2  2  1  2     2  1     1     3  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Disable   4  1  1     2  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Open Lo   4                    7     2     2                       8  23
Search    4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Spot      4        1  3        3  1  1     2  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Jump      4           4     1        4     2           1  1  1  1  4  23
UMD       4           4        3     2     2  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Heal      2  1  2  2     2  1     2     2     1  1  1                 17
Balance   4                          4     4                          12
Bluff     4                                                            4
Diplo     4                                                            4
Intim     4                                                            4
Swim      3                                                            3
Tumble    1                                                            1
         ------------------------------------------------------------
         52  7  7  8 14  8  8 15  9 15  9 16 10 10 10 11 11 11 11 18


Feats

 1        : Point Blank Shot
 1 Human  : Rapid Shot
 2 Deity  : Follower of: Sovereign Host
 3        : Rapid Reload
 6        : Precision
 9        : Insightful Reflexes
 9 Deity  : Unyielding Sovereignty
12        : Improved Critical: Ranged
15        : Precise Shot
18        : Improved Precise Shot
21 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic   : Combat Archery
26 Destiny: Pierce Damage Reduction: Cold Iron
27 Epic   : Blinding Speed
28 Destiny: Doubleshot
29 Destiny: Embodiment of Law
30 Epic   : Epic Damage Reduction
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea


Spells

Cleric
Cure Light Wounds, Nightshield, Protection from Evil, Divine Favor, <Any>, <Any>
Cure Moderate Wounds, Find Traps, Resist Energy, <Any>, <Any>, <Any>
Cure Serious Wounds, Magic Circle Against Evil, Protection from Energy, <Any>, <Any>, <Any>
Cure Critical Wounds, Death Ward, Freedom of Movement, <Any>, <Any>, <Any>
Mass Cure Light Wounds, Raise Dead, True Seeing, Spell Resistance, <Any>
Mass Cure Moderate Wounds, Heal, Blade Barrier, <Any>, <Any>
Mass Cure Serious Wounds, Greater Restoration, Mass Protection from Elements, Resurrection

Enhancements (80 AP)

Mechanic (39 AP)
Arbalester
Sharpshooter, Lacerating Shots III, Mechanics III, Awareness III
Sharpshooter
Sharpshooter, Wracking Shot III, Intelligence
Sharpshooter, Fletching III, Leg Shot, Intelligence
Sharpshooter, Rapid Fire III, Sniper, Mechanical Reloader
Radiant Servant (23 AP)
Healing Domain, Pacifism, Positive Energy Burst, Improved Empower Healing
Extra Turning III, Wand Mastery III
Improved Turning III
Intense Healing III, Unyielding Sovereignty
Endless Turning I
Harper Agent (12 AP)
Agent of Good I
Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
Versatile Adept II, Know the Angles III
Strategic Combat
Human (6 AP)
Damage Boost, Intelligence, Saves Boost
Improved Recovery[/color]
Leveling Guide
Mec0 Arbalester; Hrp0 Agent of Good I; Hrp1 Strategic Combat
Hrp1 Harper Enchantment; Hrp2 Versatile Adept I, II
Hrp2 Know the Angles I, II, III; Mec1 Lacerating Shots I
Hrp3 Strategic Combat; Mec1 Sharpshooter
Mec1 Lacerating Shots II, III; Mec2 Sharpshooter
Mec1 Mechanics I, II, III; Mec1 Awareness I
Mec1 Awareness II, III; Hum0 Damage Boost; (Bank 1 AP)
Mec3 Sharpshooter; Mec3 Wracking Shot I, II, III
Hum0 Intelligence; Mec3 Intelligence
Reset Human
Mechanic
(none)
(none)
(none)
Sharpshooter, Fletching III, Intelligence
Mec4 Leg Shot; (Bank 2 AP)
Mec5 Mechanical Reloader; Mec5 Sniper; Mec5 Sharpshooter
Mec5 Rapid Fire I, II, III; Hum0 Damage Boost
Hum1 Improved Recovery; Hum0 Intelligence
Hum0 Saves Boost; Rad0 Healing Domain; Rad1 Wand Mastery I, II
Rad1 Wand Mastery III; Rad1 Extra Turning I, II, III
Rad0 Pacifism; Rad2 Improved Turning I, II; Rad0 Positive Energy Burst
Rad3 Unyielding Sovereignty; Rad3 Intense Healing I
Rad3 Intense Healing II, III
Rad2 Improved Turning III; Rad4 Endless Turning I; Rad0 Improved Empower Healing

[khattiya]

Thanks everyone for the excellent feedback, suggestions, and help.

Don't waste all those skill points in Search. Find Traps is your friend.

Thanks for the suggestion: "Grants the caster the ability to find traps much like a skilled Rogue. The caster gains an insight bonus of caster level/2 to the Search Skill."

If it were up to me, I'd focus on Harper up thru T3 Strategic Combat (12 APs) for INT to dmg ASAP; then focus on Mechanic; then focus on RS. But odds are you will reset your Enhancements regularly...

Thanks. This makes good sense to me.

Here's my take on the build concept.

Wow. Thanks.

I was taking Quicken because I wasn't investing any enhancement points in Concentration. If it's a problem, I can respec feats with Fred.

I really appreciate the hint about the Human Saves Boost and the Crucible swim, and I'm really looking forward to trying that out.

I like the second variation. It looks like the trade off is a 6th Rogue level to balance out skills vs. 8th level spells from the 15th Cleric level.

I see the last three Epic, Epic Destiny, Legendary feats are different.

Embodiment of Law gives 10 bane damage vs. all targets + 20 law damage vs. chaotic targets (vs. Deific Warding which gives +10 PRR/MRR and up to 20 stacking temporary PRR/MRR).

Epic Damage Reduction gives +10 PR (vs. Watchful Eye which keeps other players from finding traps for me ).

Scion of: Arborea gives +20 ranged power (which is just better than Scion of: Ethereal Plane, I think).

Finally if you're willing to do some equipment farming before TRing, I would definitely try to acquire a Leverage and Divine Artillery.

I've been working on this, and, after a week, I finally managed to pull Divine Artillery last night!

Thanks again, everyone, for all the help!

[SirValentine]

Thanks for the suggestion: "Grants the caster the ability to find traps much like a skilled Rogue. The caster gains an insight bonus of caster level/2 to the Search Skill."

Let me offer the exact opposite advice: I wouldn't neglect your Search skill because of Find Traps. A extra +1 to +3/4ish in the level 3-9 range is fine, but isn't going to do the job by itself. And it's an Insight bonus; it doesn't stack with, and is lower than, the Insight bonuses you can find or craft for the double-digit levels.

Now, it's been a while since I play a trapper in level 1-13 content, so maybe you'll be fine with fewer skill points spent; but if you'll be fine, it won't be because of the Find Traps spell.

It used to make a huge difference, but since the introduction of high-bonus Insight items into random loot & Cannith crafting, I feel the only real purpose left to Find Traps is for people who don't have a Rogue or Arti level at all.

[EllisDee37]

Embodiment of Law gives 10 bane damage vs. all targets + 20 law damage vs. chaotic targets (vs. Deific Warding which gives +10 PRR/MRR and up to 20 stacking temporary PRR/MRR).

That feat slot is my least favorite in terms of choices:

Embodiment of Law? Meh. It scales with ranged power, but still meh. Requires the entire martial sphere maxed to take. Ugh.

Deific Warding? 10-20 PRR is nice, but meh. Requires the entire divine sphere maxed to take. Ugh.

I might even just take toughness and call it good enough.

Epic Damage Reduction gives +10 PR (vs. Watchful Eye which keeps other players from finding traps for me ).

If not Epic DR, go with Epic Reflexes. Only +2 reflex save, but the "no-fail on a 1" is now a permanent thing.

Scion of: Arborea gives +20 ranged power (which is just better than Scion of: Ethereal Plane, I think).

Arborea is pretty much my default choice on most builds that do physical damage.

I've been working on this, and, after a week, I finally managed to pull Divine Artillery last night!

Nice, gratz! My level 15 opener uses it, and as far as weapons go, it's awesome. Positively drowning in win.

[C-Dog]

I'm trying to reconcile these two suggestions as I rework the build...

I was accepting the build proposal at face value, that you wanted Cleric first, and Rogue/crossbow second, and so was trying to fine-tune it with that assumption. Ungbongwah (who has WAY more experience at these things) recognized the flaw in that approach, and offered a radical but far more powerful alternative.

So, unless you're in love w/ "Cleric BAE", get that crossbow singing first. DPS is king - gotta stay alive before you can keep others alive.

FWIW, I think ED's Cler 14/Rog 6 is a nice synthesis, ~IF~ you, personally, can let go of the L8 spells (spec. Firestorm, Death Pact, & Cure Critical Mass). That way you can both 1) get that X-bow early, and still 2) be a true end-game trapper. For that, I think I could - ya can't have everything. <shrugs>

[khattiya]

Thanks, everyone, for the excellent discussion.

I monkeyed around with one or two things, but my current build is essentially the second one posted by EllisDee37. I might exchange some of the "extra" Radiant Servant enhancement points for more Versatile Adept in Harper Agent to pick up some additional Ranged Power and take Endless Turning from Divine Crusader, but I'll worry about that closer to level 20. It's not what I had imagined starting out, but I'm really looking forward to trying this out!

Thanks again.

[Pyyro_del_Drago]

Got some great feedback on the Request a Build - Get A Build thread when I asked about doing a 15/5 cleric/rogue that I suggest reading as well, might give you some ideas for this build as well as other similar splits you might enjoy:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...d/page164#3278

[EllisDee37]

Got some great feedback on the Request a Build - Get A Build thread when I asked about doing a 15/5 cleric/rogue that I suggest reading as well, might give you some ideas for this build as well as other similar splits you might enjoy:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...d/page164#3278

Nice link, thanks much.

The 6th rogue level opens up a couple things that slipped my mind, but are worth considering:

- The ML6 core in Assassin is a clickie that reduces target's fortification and sneak immunity by 25
- The ML6 Mechanic core grants Int to damage with crossbows

The Assassin's core would be nice to have. Not a dealbreaker to skip it, but something to keep in mind. (Great xbows do lots of crits.)

The Mechanic core isn't available until much later than harper Strategic Combat, so you would still start the same way as written. However, if you spend the 2 AP on the mechanic cores (ML3 & ML6) instead of Strategic Combat (2 AP), you no longer need to spend 10 AP in harper to unlock tier 3s. Now you can scale back to 8 AP for Know the Angles and that tier 1 "int to attack" (which mechanic doesn't get) and you're good to go.

I'm not actually saying that's what I would do; I think harper with its range power (versatile adept) is some of the better AP you can spend on this build, but it is worth being aware of your choices.

[tsteigner]

I’m getting ready for a cleric life, but didn’t want to give up trapping. I usually rely on repeating crossbows, so I decided to try out great crossbows as an additional change of pace. The rogue enhancements seem stronger than the artificer enhancements for a great crossbow build, so I decided to splash rogue for trapping skills.

I considered 1 level of rogue just for trapping skills, 2 levels of rogue for evasion, and 5 levels of rogue to unlock tier 5 enhancements. I decided to build for 5 levels of rogue. That way I’ll be able to swap between rogue and cleric tier 5 enhancements if I want to.

I focused on keeping disable device, open lock, search, and spot maximized. After that, I prioritized heal and UMD, which I was also able to maximize. And after that, I focused on jump, which I got to 15. The first level of rogue gave me some extra skill points which I spread out amongst bluff, balance, hide, move silently, tumble, and concentration.
I know some people like to minimize the points in spot and open lock, but I like being able to see stealthed mobs and unlock stuff.

For enhancements, I started off with Arbalester and Lacerating Shots from Mechanic to give the great crossbow a little kick. Then I focused on Harper Agent to get Strategic Combat I and II. Then I focused on Radiant Servant for Positive Energy Burst and Endless Turning. And finally, I focused on the Mechanic enhancements to buff the effectiveness of my great crossbow.
After I had the enhancements in order, I rearranged my class order so that I took the Rogue levels when I was ready to select from the next tier of Mechanic enhancements.

I made an attempt at reasonable spell selections, but figure I can swap those around easily enough. Except for Blade Barrier, I mostly focused on healing and buffing.

For feats, I took Empower Healing Spell and Quicken for the Positive Energy Burst, and focused the rest on ranged damage. I’m missing Empower and Maximize. I guess I can swap those in if the healing seems too weak. I’m thinking Precision would be one of the feats I might swap out.

Feedback is welcome and appreciated. Thanks.

i personally if you just want to hit 20 would go a bit different
lvl 1 - rogue lvl 11 clr, then lvl 2-5 rogue and the rest in clr/rogue / whatever
reason is even if you dump stat wis, you will most likely be waaaaayyyy faster in lvling with using a maximized bladebarrier, which you will get @lvl 12 with this combo

also swap out empower healing for maximize then (both work with burst iirc )
i would also try to squeeze in empower until around lvl 18 and at lvl 18 switch over to rogue mechanic