Reaper/Champion Changes: Recommendation and Reasoning, Jan10-12, Lamma Patch

[Sam-u-r-eye]

Recommendation: You now have 2 songs to make the audio on every reaper quest.
Reasoning: Because you play 10% better according to ETH.

[SirValentine]

If there's a problem with specific content...it's a problem with the specific content. If the saves are too easy on R10...is it possible that it's not a R10 issue, but that the saves are too easy even not in Reaper?

If the DCs are too easy then that's a major problem.

Oh, agreed. But how easy is too easy? 50% versus a mob's weakest save isn't ringing the bell for me.

Instead of inflating DCs out of reach, you might as well just bring back the old old Epic blanket immunity. You can't even be an old-school hold-bot if your max DCs can't land on over-inflated mob saves.

If melee need 10s to kill a mob then 2 energy drains and a necro to kill something is reasonable.

No, it's not.

Others already pointed out the unreasonable SP use, but let's also talk seconds: 2 energy drains per mob means 12 seconds per single mob, since it has a 6s cool-down.

[SirValentine]

People use DC spells at level 5?

Command starting at level 1, until Greater Command is available.

Hold Person starting at level 3, and still in use at level 30.

No insta-kills until level 7, though.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

Recommendation: Up fear reaper damage a bit.
Reasoning: First lamma preview they were fun.

Recommendation: Give famine reapers a slow AOE that is quite large.
Reasoning: They aren't scary enough.

Recommendation: Give Carnage reapers complete spell immunity.
Reasoning: They aren't scary enough.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

Recommendation: Increase penalties for ranging.
Reasoning: Its not enough ATM. All increases of difficulty disproportionately affect melee in a natural way. This should addressed directly. There is a massive opportunity cost to being in melee. While a fighting style feat is active you could give 10% hp bonus, and a 20% hp bonus while the shield feat is active. Additionally ranged damage while moving could get give 1/2 range power with the ability to recoup 1/4 of it through shooting on the run.

[Morroiel]

Disallow sp pots, ethereal rest shrines, cakes.

Drastically increase sp regen gems to compensate. I also think shrines in quest should be reusable after x amount of time

[Mr_Helmet]

Web. Soundblast / Sonic Blast. Acid Spray. Etc...

Plenty of DC spells at low level.

Understandable, but I'm using master's touch and a great axe still at those levels.

[Mr_Helmet]

Recommendation: Increase penalties for ranging.
Reasoning: Its not enough ATM. All increases of difficulty disproportionately affect melee in a natural way. This should addressed directly. There is a massive opportunity cost to being in melee. While a fighting style feat is active you could give 10% hp bonus, and a 20% hp bonus while the shield feat is active. Additionally ranged damage while moving could get give 1/2 range power with the ability to recoup 1/4 of it through shooting on the run.

Make PRR 1/2 as effective when you're not in melee.

I like the ranged power debuff while moving.

[Jasparion]

Understandable, but I'm using master's touch and a great axe still at those levels.

Anyone with common sense did that in the "good" old days. These days spellcasting is powerful straight away, so you dont need to swing an axe until level 5 or 8 or whatever anymore.

[EllisDee37]

ranged damage while moving could get give 1/2 range power with the ability to recoup 1/4 of it through shooting on the run.

Very clever; I like it.

Disallow sp pots, ethereal rest shrines, cakes.

Unfortunately those are revenue streams. I think it's highly unlikely we'll see reaper mode disallow (or limit in any way) store-bought pay-to-win.

[Yalinaa]

Additionally ranged damage while moving could get give 1/2 range power with the ability to recoup 1/4 of it through shooting on the run.

Hell no, it would just encourage kiting to safe spots. Everyone hates to chase mobs, and if they have aggro on the ranger, they will follow that ranger. Noone is so stupid to stand in one place waiting for the sure death, ofc rangers will run to safer spots where they can rely on full of their dps, so you will have to run with them. No thanks!!

[count_spicoli]

Hell no, it would just encourage kiting to safe spots. Everyone hates to chase mobs, and if they have aggro on the ranger, they will follow that ranger. Noone is so stupid to stand in one place waiting for the sure death, ofc rangers will run to safer spots where they can rely on full of their dps, so you will have to run with them. No thanks!!

This already happens. I think it is a great idea. Cheez kiting needs to be slowed if this thing is to take any traction.

[Eth]

Recommendation: Summons, and companions shouldn't receive damage bonuses that scale with skull.
Reasoning: My ooze outkilled everyone in the party in a 10 skull LOD. (I was playing a TWF melee). I know we're over level but I was seeing 6-10k hits from the thing. Seems like a bug or exploit lol. ^^ Not that I don't love my oozes but if their damage stays the same (~600 a hit) they will still be out-dpsing me on 10 skull unfortunately.

Hope the devs catched that. Not that I'm against summons being finally useful, but those Oozes are just to powerful.
Oozes doing equivalent of adrenalined slayer arrows per hit is stupid. They also make way to good tanks.

[LavidDynch]

Whatta refreshing post from the OP!

Content will be so much harder, for all, when CC and Instant-kills are more in line.

[Vanhooger]

I completely agree with OP, quest should be impossible 7-10 skull for long time, or reaper is going to die in a month or less. Doesn't matter if the quest is lvl 20.

[Eth]

Make PRR 1/2 as effective when you're not in melee.

I like the ranged power debuff while moving.

How do you determine if something is a melee?
A caster uses melee weapons, no?
Putting in checks if you are in range of something would likely just add a ton of lag.

[JOTMON]

Recommendation: Make reaper Legendary+ content across the board, start them all at level 34 regardless of where they are.

Reasoning: Reaper at heroic levels and low level XP range is pointless, these are levelling ranges not the be at your best endgame worthy challenge..

at the low levels players are either just learning the game or levelling to get to higher content.
Many builds are worthless until Epic+ content... whats a wizard going to do in reaper level 4 content... or worse.. multi-class builds...

Reaper should be about endgame ready players and builds..

Would like to see players coming back around with their endgame ready toons and redoing all the early content scaled to Level 34+.
Waterworks, invaders, stk.. all scaled up to endgame reaper difficulty...

Give endgame ready players the full range of max level content to run..

[Blastyswa]

If melee need 10s to kill a mob then 2 energy drains and a necro to kill something is reasonable.

140 spellpoints for a single mob?

Yes, completely agreed. I'd prefer for instakills to be gradually turned through saves/sp restrictions into more of a precision and tactics based HVT killer, focusing on waiting for a potentially lethal champion/other dangerous enemy to unload 150-200 spellpoints to kill it. I've played quite a few instakillers in Epic/Legendary content, and if the performance in reaper is similar then it's frankly silly to tap through a cycle of a half-dozen buttons and have each one instantly kill an enemy for next to no spellpoints. Personally, I'd actually be willing to have them push it even further and make it take even more debuffing for a completely maxed out DC build, and practically impossible for a non maxed-out build, but the pushback on that would be so immense that beyond 140 spellpoints for a single mob would be hard to get developed.

[Blastyswa]

How do you determine if something is a melee?
A caster uses melee weapons, no?
Putting in checks if you are in range of something would likely just add a ton of lag.

I'd be fine with melee being determined as:
1. Standing still.

Caster's that bounce around spamming chain missiles are penalized; caster's that are standing still to cast a spell are not, and have full PRR. Ranged that are kiting back and forth are penalized; ranged that let the melee get aggro and then shoot the enemies that are on him while stationary are not. Melee's that kite tank are penalized; melee's that stock tank are not.

It's not anything to do with the actual distinction between swinging an axe and shooting a bow in my opinion, it's the fact that shooting the bow can be done while putting distance between yourself and your target while swinging an axe requires closing that distance. (With that said, your response does definitely make sense in regards to the person you quoted, and I'm not trying to be critical. This would just be my recommendation on how to implement an additional kiting penalty)

[Kebtid]

I'd be fine with melee being determined as:
1. Standing still.

Learning how to and execute proper twitch was always the biggest and hardest to learn task as a 2 handed melee.
With the stand still penality you totally reduced dps of good 2 hander players by 30% (or more, going 30% by feeling but never actually recorded swing with and without timing).
Nerf to ranged but a total blow to melee.
Its really silly that whenever we try to make a mechanic vs casters we actually penalize melees more.
ITs hard not to do so in ddo because everything is tied together.

Better solution would be to do a some kind of buff that is a feat (maybe autogranted) and procs only when you hit in melee and duration is like 2 or 3 second which grants full prr, in the same time reduce general prr by 50%, also dont forget to make it so that it doesnt work on cleaves either (to prevent wlock abuse).
That way you punish casters, and force melees to fight /runing away to selfheal puts a heavy burden because you have so much less survival.