Please consider TR Iconic to 1 as an option

[pjw]

I know this has been suggested by myself and other before, but I'd love to see this.

Why?

• It gives me the option of playing a much broader group of quests on the same character
• I like my iconic characters and don't want to change their race, but I'd like to take them through low level stuff
• Getting low level favour is more fun a low level
• I don't have the patience to "not level" for 16 levels as some people have previously suggested
• For me, the upper-level game is pretty stale. It's more likely to keep me playing
• I'd like to be able to change the mandatory level 1 (at least on TR); I would never brought a LR+n heart for this alone since it would psychologically lock me at 20+.

Why Not?

• People say they wouldn't be Iconic. Honestly, they're just being pedants. What is the *harm* in breaking this particular rule if it keep more people playing?
• It means fewer LR+n hearts get sold. I doubt it; I'd need to see the stats. It might also mean more people buy iconics and play for longer and at lower levels.
• It uses up precious developer time. This I also doubt: we already have Level 1 iconics, they just have millions of XP. Take the XP away and flag them as TR-capable at 20. It's always difficult determining whats 'hard', but taking away XP doesn't seem hard to me. I'd even go for it if I couldn't TR at 20.

Edit:

How would I do it cheaply?

Make an LR+1 freely available once per life to level 1 iconics. Add a small dialog to the creation story. "If you truly wish to reject all we have taught you, you may also want to talk to <DUDE-WHO-DOES-LR> about your early life. Do it soon though, and remember that to us you will always be <RACE>, despite your willfulness". Or something like that.

[EllisDee37]

Being able to choose any class you want at level 1, but then the cost is you have to start at level 1 instead of 15? That's a neat wrinkle.

I like it.

[spyder7723]

I seriously doubt we will ever see this happen. I think you underestimate just how many plus 1 hearts they sell over this. While i obviously have no access to turbines invoice records, I'm basing it on my interactions with players i encounter in the game. Heck i know several running a skeptic tree build that not only bought a plus 1 heart, but also an alignment change. In my experience, iconics ate predominately played for 3 reasons. 1:Just to get the past life bonuses, these guys rarely will buy a heart for this purpose. 2: an experienced power gamer using an iconic to make a very powerful top tier build. These guys but hearts and alignment changes if the build benefits even slightly from it. 3: new players that don't realize iconics are not very good built as intended. They make excellent advanced builds, but that scripted build path is as crappy as the normal level 1 ones. (Yes i do run into quite a lot of brand new players that bought access to iconics just so they can start at 15 and rush to end game).

Note: i didn't say they shouldn't change iconics to allow this. I said i don't see it happening.

[pjw]

I think you underestimate just how many plus 1 hearts they sell over this....

Note: i didn't say they shouldn't change iconics to allow this. I said i don't see it happening.

Ah, but the people I know who have done this are VIPs; they could afford LR+n on their free TP pretty regularly. I think it would be interesting to assess the genuine revenue. That said, I do agree to some extent. Turbine seem deperate to monetize things so this probably won't make it.

But it would make the game much more fun.

[decease]

ill come back and play if this get implemented.. further more i would purchase the deep gnome iconic (the only one i haven't bought)

[pjw]

ill come back and play if this get implemented.. further more i would purchase the deep gnome iconic (the only one i haven't bought)

I suspect you are not alone in this. I would also be likely to stay longer this time. I assume the amount of time people play the game correlates with to purchases.

[Tscheuss]

Ah, but the people I know who have done this are VIPs; they could afford LR+n on their free TP pretty regularly. I think it would be interesting to assess the genuine revenue. That said, I do agree to some extent. Turbine seem deperate to monetize things so this probably won't make it.

But it would make the game much more fun.

VIP is paid for with real money, so that monthly TP stipend is hardly free.

On topic: No to the OP.

[QuantumFX]

IIRC, the devs said that they would have to redesign the character creation process to facilitate this. IMO, they could probably monetize it by building in the option to roll iconic versions/veteran 3 status of the standard races. So, you could choose to start any of the races at level 1/4/7/15 and if you choose to be a native of the Forgotten Realms, you automatically get the level 15 option. This would require coding Forgotten Realms racial trees for Dwarf/Halfling/Drow/Half-Elf/Half-Orc. But, the work for Human, Elf and Gnome is already done.

[patang01]

I seriously doubt we will ever see this happen. I think you underestimate just how many plus 1 hearts they sell over this. While i obviously have no access to turbines invoice records, I'm basing it on my interactions with players i encounter in the game. Heck i know several running a skeptic tree build that not only bought a plus 1 heart, but also an alignment change. In my experience, iconics ate predominately played for 3 reasons. 1:Just to get the past life bonuses, these guys rarely will buy a heart for this purpose. 2: an experienced power gamer using an iconic to make a very powerful top tier build. These guys but hearts and alignment changes if the build benefits even slightly from it. 3: new players that don't realize iconics are not very good built as intended. They make excellent advanced builds, but that scripted build path is as crappy as the normal level 1 ones. (Yes i do run into quite a lot of brand new players that bought access to iconics just so they can start at 15 and rush to end game).

Note: i didn't say they shouldn't change iconics to allow this. I said i don't see it happening.

I can play to make iconic reinc hearts for 'free'. The +1 would hopefully be store bought only and a netnew revenue stream for them.

[NaturalHazard]

Being able to choose any class you want at level 1, but then the cost is you have to start at level 1 instead of 15? That's a neat wrinkle.

I like it.

I love it, and the choice to TR like normal at 20 would be a big bonus to many I see it opening up more content for more people, it would have more people interested in Iconics and probably playing the game longer. But some will argue that it will sell less hearts in the store, +1's and Iconic and Epic hearts to tr.

[xberto]

[*]I don't have the patience to "not level" for 16 levels as some people have previously suggested.

Maybe I'm missing something but, can't you just progress your iconic levels at the rate you desire. Nothing stopping you from playing at any level 1-15 that you like. Nothing really needs to be changed. If you have not the patience to level this way, it must not be so important.

Seems this should be pretty low on priority list.

[pjw]

... just progress your iconic levels at the rate you desire. Nothing stopping you from playing at any level 1-15 that you like

Two reasons:

1) Having tried this it gets old really fast. I have some mild difficulty holding one level even though I at least gain XP when doing so. Holding 14 levels, and getting no XP, got old really fast. I think I made it to level 4 last time. You lose all sense of purpose and progression while leveling. The ONLY reason to do this is social; it does not add to the fun.

2) You can't choose a different level 1; part of the idea was choosing a different level 1 and then *having* to level from 1 as part of the price.

[spyder7723]

Two reasons:

1) Having tried this it gets old really fast. I have some mild difficulty holding one level even though I at least gain XP when doing so. Holding 14 levels, and getting no XP, got old really fast. I think I made it to level 4 last time. You lose all sense of purpose and progression while leveling. The ONLY reason to do this is social; it does not add to the fun.

2) You can't choose a different level 1; part of the idea was choosing a different level 1 and then *having* to level from 1 as part of the price.

Just use your vip points to buy a plus 1. And if not vip, spend ten bucks on points. It's 10 bucks man, you can't even buy a decent lunch on that.
Turbine is not a non profit, they make this game in order to make money. The day they stop making money is the day the game shuts down. It's really that simple. They aren't going to just hand away a very good profit source.

[Mglaxix]

I know this has been suggested by myself and other before, but I'd love to see this.

Why?

• It gives me the option of playing a much broader group of quests on the same character
• I like my iconic characters and don't want to change their race, but I'd like to take them through low level stuff
• Getting low level favour is more fun a low level
• I don't have the patience to "not level" for 16 levels as some people have previously suggested
• For me, the upper-level game is pretty stale. It's more likely to keep me playing
• I'd like to be able to change the mandatory level 1 (at least on TR); I would never brought a LR+n heart for this alone since it would psychologically lock me at 20+.

Why Not?

• People say they wouldn't be Iconic. Honestly, they're just being pedants. What is the *harm* in breaking this particular rule if it keep more people playing?
• It means fewer LR+n hearts get sold. I doubt it; I'd need to see the stats. It might also mean more people buy iconics and play for longer and at lower levels.
• It uses up precious developer time. This I also doubt: we already have Level 1 iconics, they just have millions of XP. Take the XP away and flag them as TR-capable at 20. It's always difficult determining whats 'hard', but taking away XP doesn't seem hard to me. I'd even go for it if I couldn't TR at 20.

Edit:

How would I do it cheaply?

Make an LR+1 freely available once per life to level 1 iconics. Add a small dialog to the creation story. "If you truly wish to reject all we have taught you, you may also want to talk to <DUDE-WHO-DOES-LR> about your early life. Do it soon though, and remember that to us you will always be <RACE>, despite your willfulness". Or something like that.

And as soon as you truly refuse all you have learned

*** POOF ***

Shadari-Kai becomes a normal Human

Purple Dragon Knight becomes a Human

BladeForged becomes a Warforged

Sun-Elf becomes an Elf

Deep Gnome becomes a Gnome

Sounds like a simple solution to me no one is forcing anyone to play and iconic race at all

[goodspeed]

A barb with a recon sla freely given? Hellz ya sign me up! lol gotta lesser 1 and alignment that sucker... or OR..how about change pallys to being able to be caotic or evil eh? ehh?

Hey if those freakish shadowknight things can in dust we can to blast it! They look more badass to.

[morkahn82]

the concept of selling class/race combinations with minimal changes to races and classes and introducing heuristics like not starting at level 1 (15 instead) and fixating the class for the first level is a failure imho.

An optional change in heuristics will not cure iconics.

Why not generate new class/race combinations, starting at level 7 (max level 23), fixate multiclass combinations (2 level class a, 2 level class b, 2 level class c obligatory), call it principal characters and sell em for 2000 tp each? Why not? Because it is bad design imho.

At least to me I can not see a good reason why sun elf, bladeforged, shadar-kai and purple dragon knight and deep gnome was not integrated as a normal race.

I currently play a shadar-kai. It is so frustrating starting at level 15. The annoying character generation. Not having any favor before, not having the bags. Technically you need 15 levels favor cleanup if you do not intend to reincarnate the character again.

But I guess, "don't like it don't use it" is valid here.

[pjw]

the concept of selling class/race combinations with minimal changes to races and classes and introducing heuristics like not starting at level 1 (15 instead) and fixating the class for the first level is a failure imho.

I agree.

Why not generate new class/race combinations, starting at level 7 (max level 23), ...Because it is bad design imho.

Yep, which is pretty much why I refuse to TR my Iconic and then pay for an LR+1 every life.

I'll happily pay for good design, but deeply resent paying for bad design.

At least to me I can not see a good reason why sun elf, bladeforged, shadar-kai and purple dragon knight and deep gnome was not integrated as a normal race.

Yep. It *was* good marketing; most of them came when MotU came out and it was a way to get new players who would be nearly able to play the new content. It was actually quite sensible from a marketing point of view. The problem is that as with so many other things, there was no folow through.

I currently play a shadar-kai. It is so frustrating starting at level 15. The annoying character generation. Not having any favor before, not having the bags. Technically you need 15 levels favor cleanup if you do not intend to reincarnate the character again.

Yep, it sucks and it's boring. I'm almost at the "need to TR" stage again (bored with L20+) and I really can't face another bout of L16+.

But I guess, "don't like it don't use it" is valid here.

That was, is, and never shall be a valid argument. At best it's an excuse for poor design.

[FranOhmsford]

I currently play a shadar-kai. It is so frustrating starting at level 15. The annoying character generation. Not having any favor before, not having the bags. Technically you need 15 levels favor cleanup if you do not intend to reincarnate the character again.

Actually it's even worse as you get xp while doing that Favour Cleanup {large amounts of Monster Manual XP included}.

So if you do that Favour Cleanup at say Lvl 15 you're reducing the number of Gianthold/Orchard etc. quests you can run at BB level, and so on into higher levels as you carry on catching up.


I've worked out one decent xp route for an Iconic but it requires NOT TAKING 15 until hardcapped 16 and therefore not having that Starter Gear immediately available to you {it doesn't pop into your Inv until you take 15 and even if it did it's min lvl 15}.
- Level to 14, do Enhancements, figure out best gear set up from TR Cache for Lvl 14.
- Run VoN 1-4 Elite {Gets you your 1st extra Bank Tab and decent xp actually from this even at 14}
- Run Lordsmarch I Elite BB {51 Coin Lords Favour}
- Run Invaders and Relic E-BB
- Run OoB Elite, WK E-BB, Chains E-BB and ADQ1 E-BB
- Take 15
- Run GH Walkups, Lordsmarch II, Mired and Archons E-BB
- Take 16
- Run GH Flags, Tor, Orchard E-BB
- Take 17
- Run Harbinger of Madness, Disciples of Shar/Escape Plan/Shadow of a Doubt, Acid Wit and Delirium E-BB
- Take 18
- Run LoD Chain+Rift+Mask of Deception and Vale E-BB
- Take 20
- Now do your Favour Cleanup of Lvl 1-10 Quests you missed before.

[Oliphant]

Cool idea. This would create a lot of value without much coding. Just let you pick the race at level 1!

[pjw]

Cool idea. This would create a lot of value without much coding. Just let you pick the race at level 1!

Yes, I like the simplicity that provides flexibility and options to players, without affecting game balance in any substantial way. I'd also be fine if it cost another 42 heart seeds or whatever.