RANT - Cannith Crafting

[psykopeta]

It's much faster, easier and 100% guaranteed you get what u want, and bta

All winninga

[Hawkwier]

People keep comparing Cannith Crafting to other crafting systems; that is illogical, as they have nothing to do with one another. All other crafting systems are special design weapons and armor that when at or near completion are as, or more, powerful than named items, and usually have just as many effects. Cannith items do not, they have a maximum of 3 effects, and to get the 3rd effect costs a premium price.

However, that is only a side point to the main problem, which is that we should not have to be farming. It's not cute, it's not fun, it's not entertaining, it has no game thematic; all it is is running in and out of the same dungeons over and over and over and over for hours trying to get collectables. And, why are we doing this? Why do we HAVE to run in and out and in and out and in and out and in and out, because turbine took the crafting recipes that used to use like 5 and 2 collectables to make an item, and they didn't even do the ridiculously unthinkable and quadruple it, NO, they HEXTUPLED it, making it 30 collectables and some other amount of collectables.

You can't reliably make stat items anymore, because of the rare collectables you need to farm, and stat items for leveling characters is like a staple. And, don't even get me started, again, about how slotting is limited to only certain effects on the body.

Cannith Crafting is supposed to be the equivalent of DnD's table top Craft Wonderous Items, Craft Magical Arms and Armor, Craft Ring, Craft Rod, and Craft Staff. It is not supposed to be this tremendously annoyingly difficult, not due to it being a TOUGH thing to do, but the sheer amount of stamina of patience you have to have to not go insane watching loading screens for hours. It's just DUMB. Farming collectables is dumb, plain and simple, it's dumb, and we shouldn't have to do it to make basic gear, which is exactly what Cannith gear is, BASIC gear, NOT THUNDER FORGED gear, or ToEE gear, like it's been compared to, it's BASIC fricken gear. Farming hours for basic gear is wrong, and I cannot say it enough times. It's wrong.

Did I just say that?

WRONG!

I haven't played this game since the new crafting came out, BECAUSE the new crafting came out, and I used to play everyday for hours. This farming **** completely ruined the game for me, as I am a crafter, and if I'm not leveling, then I shouldn't be farming for hours just to make one piece of gear.

Respefully., I think it's actually much of your thread that is wrong.

Understandable perhaps, given you've apparently never played the new system, and might expect to be ignorant of it's difficulties.

Coming on for a rant is fine, but shouldn't that at least be exercised so on the basis of actual experience?.

The farming required for stat items and others is definitely not over burdensome. To paraphrase Python... Trust me, I've made a few!

Folks like me who never bothered with crafting before but see the benefits now are pretty happy.
Folks who crafted before and focus on the comparative deficiency in the new system also have a point.
But I really don't know what to make of folk who haven't even bothered to try the new system at all.

[EllisDee37]

However, that is only a side point to the main problem, which is that we should not have to be farming. It's not cute, it's not fun, it's not entertaining, it has no game thematic; all it is is running in and out of the same dungeons over and over and over and over for hours trying to get collectables.

My current project happens to be farming tome pages in the orchard wilderness at the moment.

Last time I farmed collectables I needed high level lore collectables, which means Terminal Delirium.

I have to say, in terms of tedium, boredom, entertainment value, and game thematics, the Terminal Delirium farm was superior in every way to orchard rare farming. More engaging, more entertaining, more challenging, and just more interesting overall. Oh yeah, and a bajillion times more reliable.

[ZhenBuYaoShi]

Respefully., I think it's actually much of your thread that is wrong.

Understandable perhaps, given you've apparently never played the new system, and might expect to be ignorant of it's difficulties.

Coming on for a rant is fine, but shouldn't that at least be exercised so on the basis of actual experience?.

The farming required for stat items and others is definitely not over burdensome. To paraphrase Python... Trust me, I've made a few!

Folks like me who never bothered with crafting before but see the benefits now are pretty happy.
Folks who crafted before and focus on the comparative deficiency in the new system also have a point.
But I really don't know what to make of folk who haven't even bothered to try the new system at all.

You make assumptions that are not based on anything but that, your assumptions. I beta tested the crafting system while it was in the course of being made, and I played it for a few days after it came out.

I know exactly what it takes to make items; I know how to farm them; I know how annoying nodes are; I stand by my previously stated "rant" that it's stupid, and a complete waste of game time. If you HAD been a crafter BEFORE this system came out, then you might have some idea of what this system has done to crafting overall, but you weren't. So, the only person making assumptions here is, that's right, you dear :-)

When I started this game in 2009, I immediately saw Cannith Crafting, and I started to grind going on loot runs through STormcleave outpost, because that is what had a large amount of chests, and hence I could get the most number of essences to level. It took me FOREVER to level my crafter to a master crafter. NOW, PUFFT, people just deconstruct their level 12 krap and suddenly they have 100 essences, give me a break. The difference now is that it's simple to level, and difficult as f to craft. ABSOLUTELY BACKWARDS THINKING!

You are still not getting it. If you want to be a CRAFTER, not just craft AN ITEM, but be a STANDARDLY CRAFTING THINGS OFTEN CRAFTER, your life is over in this game, because now all you are going to be doing is farming collectables, and for the 200th time, that's not fun, or interesting in the least.

Dee talking about her farming projects, no offense to her, makes me nauseated just thinking about it. When I had to start farming collectables, at first I was like okay, cool so they're going to increase nodes, or number of drops at nodes. They alluded to things, but kept it vague, then when it came out, all they did was add a few nodes to the epic content, and add rare drops to old nodes... THAT'S NOT HELPFUL! Nodes should have a variable drop rate if we are going to have these ridiculous collectable costs. We should not get 1 item for one node. Even the nodes themselves don't make sense for that. A clump of mushrooms, and you only get 1?! An entire bookcase, but only 1 letter or tome? A partially used backpack by a fallen adventurer, and you only find 1 item inside? LAME LAME LAME LAME!

I expressed these concerns and more all throughout the beta testing process, and there were MANY who were in accord with what I was saying; I'm not that only one that thinks this way. Most of those that do think this way have either given up and left, or just plain don't craft anymore, because it's prohibitive. You either play the game, or you craft, but you can no longer play the game, and be a crafter. Your days are either dedicated to crafting, or playing, you have to choose. And, since I play with crafting as an integral part of my game, I'm screwed! I can't just take out 45 mins to design, make the shards and compile a couple of pieces of gear and then back to the game I go. NO, now it's, "oh, I need to upgrade this gear, well that'll take at least 72 hours, then I can play, again.". Yeah, that's a really fun time.

Like, are you people even listening to yourselves?! It ONLY takes 12 hours, it only takes 1-3 hours to blah blah blah. I don't know about the rest of your, but I have A LOT of time to dedicate to this game, but I still have a life outside of this game, and I don't plan on wasting most of it running in and out of dungeons, and then playing on occasions with the kick-ass gear that I TRAINED to craft already through a massive grind 7 years ago, and now have to train some more to get to max level, again, if I want level 30+ gear.

All of you new crafters just have no idea what it was like before, and what they've done to us now, but you sure like to talk a lot like you do.

[EllisDee37]

I know exactly what it takes to make items; I know how to farm them; I know how annoying nodes are; I stand by my previously stated "rant" that it's stupid, and a complete waste of game time. If you HAD been a crafter BEFORE this system came out, then you might have some idea of what this system has done to crafting overall, but you weren't. So, the only person making assumptions here is, that's right, you dear :-)

Well, I was a crafter before the update as well. I started with cannith crafting when it first came to live, in beta form (when the crafting level cap was 50) in Update 9 back in April of 2011. I remember it clearly, as I started playing the game in February of 2011.

I can't just take out 45 mins to design, make the shards and compile a couple of pieces of gear and then back to the game I go. NO, now it's, "oh, I need to upgrade this gear, well that'll take at least 72 hours, then I can play, again.". Yeah, that's a really fun time.

72 hours is laughably comical. More like 45 minutes to an hour to farm the collectables to make an item. Which is exactly what you're ranting about not being able to do.

As someone who spent an ocean of time leveling and using the old cannith system, my considered opinion is that the cannith crafting revamp is absolutely fantastic. Far superior to the old system.

For clarity, I never did unbound crafting in the old system or the new. Unbound crafters are definitely screwed. But for bound crafters? Vast improvement over what we had.

72 hours?! What are you farming that takes 72 hours to acquire?

[skorpeon]

I love the new crafting, but I collected the collectables for a few years and never used them. Already after crafting a few items I am out of a number of them and have already been making farming runs (which I am not big fan of). I guess in time people may sell these collectables so maybe there is hope.

My small issue is I just don't have time to do the farming required and probably will just do a few more heroic level items (Have a full set of lvl 13, some lvl 7 and lvl 18 items, just a few epic). One concern is after doing this farming we will have more power creep and then my items will seem not so great again. Still I guess this is the way MMO's work.

[ZhenBuYaoShi]

Well, I was a crafter before the update as well. I started with cannith crafting when it first came to live, in beta form (when the crafting level cap was 50) in Update 9 back in April of 2011. I remember it clearly, as I started playing the game in February of 2011.

72 hours is laughably comical. More like 45 minutes to an hour to farm the collectables to make an item. Which is exactly what you're ranting about not being able to do.

As someone who spent an ocean of time leveling and using the old cannith system, my considered opinion is that the cannith crafting revamp is absolutely fantastic. Far superior to the old system.

For clarity, I never did unbound crafting in the old system or the new. Unbound crafters are definitely screwed. But for bound crafters? Vast improvement over what we had.

72 hours?! What are you farming that takes 72 hours to acquire?

When I went into House of Rusted Blades, and I tried to farm Fractured Femurs so I could make stat items, which was like the first thing I wanted to do, but not the only thing; I must have had a list of 6 or 7 items I wanted to make, and this was JUST FOR ONE EFFECT.

I spent 30 mins running from node to node, clearing the dungeon's nodes, hoping to get Fractured Femurs, but you know what I got a lot of instead? Mortar and Pestles. Why? Because that's what the standard drop is for the Arcane node is. 30 mins later I had farmed 37 Mortar and Pestles and 4 Fractured Femurs; I needed at least 5 just to make one stat item, and I wanted to make much more than just one stat item. And, that was fast farming, as it takes time to wait for two loading screens, and reset, and time to get to the nodes is easy in House of Rusted Blades.

It's taking me, personally, over 30 mins just to farm the rares to make one item effect, say 40 mins, and I would have had enough, then that's one effect on a three effect item. To round out the rest of the item, and make it, nevermind the designing time it takes to juggle everything around to get what you want to fit, which takes forever even with the online crafting planner, since only certain things go in certain spots, it would take me at least 2 hours to make just one item, and that's also not including the time it takes to get the essences, which isn't much time if you play epic, essences are rather trivial to get now. They are not the problem.

So, I would estimate from my experience farming that it would take about 2 hours or so to make a full 3 effect item, but like I said design time takes a lot of work when trying to fit several items on the body at once, and you have a grocery list of effects that you want done. And, you have to research everything it takes to make them, figure out where the nodes are and which collectables you need from them. So, after hours of "oh this can't go there, because I need this effect, and it only goes in that slot, so I need to put this effect somewhere else, now where am I going to put that effect...", then I can start farming.

But, can this be done all in one gaming session, 2 hours is per item, when I want to make 6 or 7? That would take about 12-14 hours from my personal farming experiences. And, factor in the design time, which is like another 2 hours, yes, to try to cobble together 6-7 items on the body with the effects you want, it does take like 2 hours of ring around the rosey with effects and slots; it's not fun. So, that's like 14-16 hours just to make my one set of upgraded BASIC GREEN GEAR, not named items, not thunderforged, not legendary green steel, but BASIC GREEN GEAR, which you all seem to forget.

Now, can all of this be accomplished in one gaming session, maybe, if you have some SERIOUS patience, time, and determination; however, I've lost my patience with this game, I don't have huge blocks of time like I used to, and as far as determination goes, I'm going to continue to reserve that for being a voice that stands up and says that this is not how crafting should be. It was never like this when crafting was making BASIC GREEN GEAR that was in line with RANDOM GREEN GEAR FROM CHESTS that could be made when CC came out originally, so why exactly is it like this now?

The ONLY reason CC lost it's power over time, was because Turbine did not keep up the crafting system with the random loot, like it should have been with every iteration of gear. They should have been raising the power of effects, and adding in new effects; that's it. Instead, they wait for nearly 5 years to upgrade the system, after it's WAY out of date, and then they do THIS?! I'm all for the upgrading of effects, but the prohibitive costs that take hours and hours of farming is, once again I will say it, stupid.

Now, as for the 72 hour thing, that is not coming from me, but coming from people that are posting. People are talking about taking 12 hours over the weekend to farm this and that, and taking out 5 hours here to do some of their farming for these collectables so it isn't that much of their game time. That's where the 72 hours comes from, not from my experience, but from others' posts, and how quickly farming times will reach 72 hours of your gaming time just to craft, and not that it takes 72 hours to craft AN item. It should not easily become 72 hours of my gaming time farming for crafting, and under this system, it will accumulate VERY quickly. If the system called for 1 rare collectable, that would be MUCH more reasonable, and something that I could see myself taking time away from the game to go and scout for that rare item that I need to make this piece of gear... but making it 5 on a random rare system makes it ridiculous. They either need to increase node drops, or lower costs. I used to know some crafters on Ghallanda, but since I came back in the last few days to see if I could handle this farming krap I can't find any of them. As a matter of fact, there was a guild master that all he used to do was spend most of his days crafting for players. When I told him what was coming for crafting he nearly lost his mind, then when it actually came out he crafted for a brief period, ran out of mats, got furious, disbanded his guild and rage quit.

And, also, as I keep on saying, I was a dam crafter, I would play with people, especially rogue types, and help them by making them gear all the time. I can't do that anymore, and them taking that ability away from me when I earned that ability years ago, the dam hard way, when all you could deconstruct maximum was level 5 stuff, not like level 12 deconstructions which are like a joke nowadays, omg essences are so trivial now, leveling is so trivial. As a master crafter from the old days I deserved a hell of a lot more than just level 260, when with just a little bit of work, people can get there in probably a week if they dedicate themselves to crafting leveling, maybe less, all depends on boosts and XP elixirs.

Anyway, I'm sick of debating this topic. Is crafting better? DUH! Crafters have only been *****ing about it for oh 5+ years to get it brought up to power with the rest of green gear. Is the cost ludacrous? For what you have to do to get the materials, the fact that we've spent YEARS of playing only to run out of collectables in seconds trying to make just a couple items, is absolutely ridiculous. People are DEFINITELY turning away from the crafting that they had been using for years, because of this after waiting for years for it to get fixed and then getting screwed. Are some people staying, SURE, SOME are staying that are of a conservative mindset that see things they way that turbine does and are fine with it.

But, for the last time, farming, with no gaming mechanic, like challenges have, and challenges reward you properly with NOT just 1 mat, is not entertaining. I have no idea what you see entertaining about running in and out of a dungeon from node to node, while invis, or stealthed, if you're smart. I DO actually see some fun in farming rares in wilderness areas, because you get to fight minibosses, and their minions over and over again, and you don't know which bosses you're going to get each reset, whether the chest has what I want or not is irrelevant, it's a random chance, just like the nodes except slower, the fact is I'm still playing the game when I'm doing this, as opposed to chasing nodes.

Anyway, DDO has been great, and I sure did spend a boat load of money on it, but since I don't like farming, I'll do it for raid gear, I'll do it for named items, and I'll do it for high powered crafting systems, but I'm not going to do it for the BASE GEAR I need to just play the game, I'm out, again. I will check into the game from time to time, just to see what's up, and to see if they ever lower the cost so I can start playing again, but I doubt that will ever happen, because many of you that post are so complacent and seem to enjoy farming so much. But, lastly, I cannot stress that there are so many of us, and there are plenty of posters right in this thread that feel the same way, that are NOT complacent, and that are NOT okay with it; they simply aren't as outspoken as I am.

[EllisDee37]

It's taking me, personally, over 30 mins just to farm the rares to make one item effect, say 40 mins, and I would have had enough, then that's one effect on a three effect item. To round out the rest of the item, and make it, nevermind the designing time it takes to juggle everything around to get what you want to fit, which takes forever even with the online crafting planner, since only certain things go in certain spots, it would take me at least 2 hours to make just one item

You lost me here. Why do you need to farm ALL collectables? Did you not have any collectables at all when the crafting pass went live?

Prefixes and suffixes, for the most part, cost collectables that have existed in-game for years and years. Why is it that you have to still farm all of those? Fractured Femurs are new, so yeah, those have to be farmed if you want to use them now. But that specific item you farmed them for, what were the three effects?

[Ulfo]

72 hours?! What are you farming that takes 72 hours to acquire?

Seems he farming our angry responses. For player with 7 year DDO stage he too successful pretends to be an noob. 8)

So, that's like 14-16 hours just to make my one set of upgraded BASIC GREEN GEAR, not named items, not thunderforged, not legendary green steel, but BASIC GREEN GEAR, which you all seem to forget.

And you forget surely what all thing you so loud call "BASIC GREEN GEAR" currently much more powerful than mostly old named/raided gear corresponding ML? Your "arguments" just laughable. 8)

[GoMeansGreen]

powercreep = game death
.
this is really nothing more than that; now you can farm level 30 items and deconstruct for unlimited essences; only the rare collectibles are hard to get, and that not so much;
.
my only gripe with it is having to level each character as a crafter, due to unbound shards being level gimped (right, only half level max?)
.
make unbound shards equal to bound shards, yet cost more (understandable)
.
or have they already done this? are unbound shards craftable to the same level as bound shards?

(also gripe-worthy is the ridiculous need to level up crafting at all)

[EllisDee37]

my only gripe with it is having to level each character as a crafter, due to unbound shards being level gimped (right, only half level max?)

You don't have to. Bound crafting is BTA, not BTC.

And no, unbound crafting is exactly the same as bound crafting, just (way) more expensive.

[dunklezhan]

I tried to make someone an unbound item yesterday for Crucible (underwater action - and **** expensive it was too). Everything was made at the unbound altar. Then I made the item to send them... and it became BTA. Is that right?

[Ulfo]

I tried to make someone an unbound item yesterday for Crucible (underwater action - and **** expensive it was too). Everything was made at the unbound altar. Then I made the item to send them... and it became BTA. Is that right?

You use BtA PED to apply unbound shard to crafted item? Blank was unbound before?
Anyway send unbound blank and shard separately to end user must be more safe.

[EllisDee37]

You use BtA PED to apply unbound shard to crafted item? Blank was unbound before?
Anyway send unbound blank and shard separately to end user must be more safe.

If so, that would appear to be a design flaw.

Isn't one of the main goals of unbound crafting the ability to craft items for sale on the auction house? At least theoretically?

[Ulfo]

If so, that would appear to be a design flaw.

Yea, but I feel we need more investigation and confirmation with this issue.

Isn't one of the main goals of unbound crafting the ability to craft items for sale on the auction house? At least theoretically?

Pure theoretically, with current price for ingredients to craft unbound shard and apply it to blank, as we both know too well... 8)

[GoMeansGreen]

You don't have to. Bound crafting is BTA, not BTC.

And no, unbound crafting is exactly the same as bound crafting, just (way) more expensive.

oh, right, so you just need a 'blank' that is specifically bta? or i guess like someone said, send the blank and the shard in the mail? anyone can apply any shard to any blank?
and, i certainly thought the unbound crafting was level gimped, or was that the old system?

sounds like someone got their neck-bolts tightened at turbine (now let's see some new level 1-3 stuff)

[dunklezhan]

If so, that would appear to be a design flaw.

Isn't one of the main goals of unbound crafting the ability to craft items for sale on the auction house? At least theoretically?

Well that's what I thought too, but the item was bought from the AH and disjuncted immediately, and the ML shard and UWA shard were both made at the unbound altar. I went to the machine and made the item... and it was bound. I don't know if it bound after the ML shard or after the effect shard, I didn't notice till I tried to trade the UWA item. I made it in the AH at the item altar on the unbound side, too.

I've deconned it to recover some essences now, I didn't need an UWA item on any character.

[EllisDee37]

and, i certainly thought the unbound crafting was level gimped, or was that the old system?

Sounds like the old system, where you just couldn't make the good stuff unbound.

In the new system, every single shard has a bound and unbound version.

[TDarkchylde]

I tried to make someone an unbound item yesterday for Crucible (underwater action - and **** expensive it was too). Everything was made at the unbound altar. Then I made the item to send them... and it became BTA. Is that right?

Weird. Got to be a bug. I made an unbound Dodge/False Life belt a couple days ago to pass to my dualbox account, and it stayed unbound after getting put together on my main.

[skorpeon]

Weird. Got to be a bug. I made an unbound Dodge/False Life belt a couple days ago to pass to my dualbox account, and it stayed unbound after getting put together on my main.

Is it possible the item was then crafted at the bound items machine?

Another possibility is that some items are bound to account on equip?