RANT - Cannith Crafting

[undercover69]

I'm VERY disappointed in how the cannith crafting turned out. It's no longer a part of the game for me because of it's ridiclously difficult recipes.
I used to craft gear for my younglings, not everything but a ring for one, some boots for another, and now it's just impossible.

1) My crafting level is 182 under the new system. In the old, for example, I could make a ghost touch weapon if my char lvl 7 needed one. Now it requires level 250. I did some quick calculations and it costs US$ 652 buying essences alone to get there. US$ 652! And I can't even use the old shard of ghost touch I have made under the old system.

2) The collectables required are too rare. Pulling the resources of all my chars I can make 1 weapon with acid damage. Just 1. If I make 1 ML 5 for a char starting now I just can't make another when he hits lvl 10 or 15.

3) Cannith Crafting should be something for the newbies and occasional players to dab with. Why? Because an elite player already has named items that compete or perform better. They don't need the CC.

4) As a result of 1 and 2 the crafting became totally elitist. My crafter is just no longer viable. Now there are absolutely no crafting for newbies and long gone returning players. Is that the goal? To scare away those who did not play 24/7 in the last few years?

5) With a waning playerbase, playerbase avoiding lower levels and much of the loot going to deconstruction the AH and ASAH are almost empty, making it impossible to find an item to properly gear a newly created char, consequently the game just got harder for newbies.

I'm very disappointed in you, Turbine.

</rant>

[Hawkwier]

Not sure I agree with all of your points. I farmed about 1000 essences from questing today, so you don't have to buy them from anywhere. Sure, it's a grind, but that's the nature nature of most stuff these days.

I do kinda agree with you on point 3 though. I think named loot, and particularly raid loot should be peerless. I've got a fair chunk of good raid loot, but am working on crafting about 4-5 items to replace some of it. That just doesn't seem right somehow.....

[EllisDee37]

Ghost Touch and Everbright are the biggest missteps, for sure. If those were properly set as level 1 recipes, the system as a whole would be far more new-player friendly.

[PNellesen]

Not much to add, OP addresses my complaints as well. I agree with EllisDee that Everbright and Ghost Touch should be much lower level recipes, using not-too-hard-to-farm collectibles. I was pretty upset when I discovered that none of my characters could create those items any more, when previously all of them could...

[SuperNiCd]

These are fair points. It has become tough for a newbie or casual/returning player to gear up a toon. At least on Sarlona, the AH started dying well before U32 was released, and U32 put the nail in the coffin.

It doesn't help that plat is essentially worthless, so there is almost no motivation to list things there. I will still list occasional items I don't need on the AH if I feel they are good ones that would benefit someone, but honestly that's more of an altruistic move than it is needing to profit. Since the AH is pretty much dead, there's little spend plat on - the occasional spell swap or tree reset, maybe restocking the guild ship cargo bay.

So for a top tier or even a mid-range player, selling on the AH essentially just slows down the game. U32 CC adds incentive to take lootgen items out of the game quickly. This is a detriment to casual/new/returning players.

There are many things I like about the new CC, but it did seem make more difficult to craft leveling gear, and even to obtain leveling gear.

EDIT: In an effort to not post problems without at least an attempt at a solution... Since i think it's unlikely the brand new CC will get a massive overhaul, I think a huge plat sink targeted at the most active players would help invigorate the AH. Maybe some new guild ship amenities that can only be bought (and must be renewed often) for HUGE plat. "+1 wealth bonus to <stat>" shrine? 60 min expires on death. 1M pp/week per stat?

[JOTMON]

Given time the collectibles will refill the new void created by introducing new high level drop collectibles with a new crafting system dependant on those new collectibles.

That said..
They should have separated epic level from heroic levels for crafting and the collectibles required.
Insightful stats for instance are crafted from collectibles only available in level 26+ content but are craftable for level 10 gear.
The amount of collectibles are heavy for heroic crafted items and cost the same for the epic.. only difference is the min level shard applied...

[Annex]

Of all the game crafting systems I have tried over the years, I think new Cannith Crafting may be my least favorite. In my opinion, it was purposely designed to generate revenue from dedicated players, not to help new players. However, one could argue that class enhancements, Warlocks, and the relative ease of crafting ability shards (and some other effects) serve that purpose.

Now for some specific help. With regards to leveling under the new system, I recommend reading the first post in slarden's thread on leveling Cannith Crafting. If you are willing to spend about $15 US worth of Turbine Points and have a character to deconstruct Epic Level magic items you can quickly reach a useful crafting level. A warning: if you do NOT have the Turbine Points for crafting potions and accelerators, leveling under the new system is very painful.

With regards to collectibles, I recommend reading the first post in the thread by dancing_hawktopus on farming collectibles. If you can tolerate the boredom of taking 30 steps into a dungeon and then resetting it for a few hours, you can solve the collectibles problem. I know that is a big 'if' but there it is.

[Ebforest60]

If you can tolerate the boredom of taking 30 steps into a dungeon and then resetting it for a few hours, you can solve the collectibles problem. I know that is a big 'if' but there it is.

If only this were true. Those damned Glass Phials are eluding me even with the farm. Maybe I need to try a Temple of Vol instead of Gianthold.

[Selvera]

And I’m going to have to disagree to a large extent with most of your points.

I agree that ghost touch and everbright should have been a lower level recipe to craft then 250. They are good recipes for new players who don’t have named items to fill that gap and 250 is pretty difficult to get up to through normal play (although possible with some work). It would have been better if ghost touch and everbright were more like level 100 recipes.

Farming collectables is very manageable, even for weaker characters, since collectables drop just as well on normal as they do on elite, and just as well in quests 20 levels below you as they do on quests at your level. A first life character at level 30 shouldn’t have much trouble farming most of the collectables in the game. Except for the bugged ones (cultural). And some collectables are much easier to farm in paid content then f2p content. That being said, I wish cultural collectables were dropping like they should be.

I have a newbie friend who wants to dabble in Cannith crafting. My first thought was “damn, got to be level 30 to do anything useful in crafting”, until I took a look at some of the stuff you can make with much lower crafting levels. A ML 10 weapon with 3d6 elemental damage and 3d6 physical damage costs collectables in the level 5-10 range and Cannith crafting level 100. Certainly an obtainable goal, and it’ll make a much better weapon that said character is likely to find on their first life at level 10. A ML 10 Cloak with elemental resistance and elemental asorbtion takes collectables in the level 1-10 range and Cannith crafting level 100, also obtainable, also useful. ML 10 Gloves of devotion and heal amplification, again can be done with level 6-10 collectables and Cannith crafting level 100. Certainly for someone who hasn’t farmed thousands of mysterious remnants, this would be a huge boost to their healing. Sure they might not get top-tier 3 slot best in slot items, but they can make some pretty **** useful stuff early. Certainly better stuff then they’re likely to find from random drops at that point.

I’m on Sarlona, and the AH seems to be pretty active to me. I’m busy getting my crafting levels up, so I check fairly often to buy all of the random loot items for deconstruction above a certain level (more essences and doesn’t disrupt what new players need for gear) and below a certain price. And… I usually find new items in that level/price range every day on the AH. And yes, I’m talking about plat, not shards.

I used to only post items that I thought were very good on the AH and vendor all the rest of the trash I picked up, but now I post only the items I think are very good, and the items I think are very good for crafting (anything with an augment slot) and then I deconstruct the rest. So, since the update I’m buying more from the AH and selling more to the AH.
However the collectables market never seems to have anything I want and is way overpriced. It probably would be a good idea to once again push new players to pick up all the collectables they come across and drop them on the AH for plat. The new players will get the plat they want (yes, plat IS useful for new players, res scrolls, collectables bags and restoration pots don’t buy themselves, and getting items on the AH costs a fair chunk of plat for a new player), and dedicated crafters might start complaining less about getting hard-to-find collectables.

Overall, I like the new Cannith crafting. Turbine needs to fix things about it, but it is pretty good overall.

[TPICKRELL]

Now for some specific help. With regards to leveling under the new system, I recommend reading the first post in slarden's thread on leveling Cannith Crafting. If you are willing to spend about $15 US worth of Turbine Points and have a character to deconstruct Epic Level magic items you can quickly reach a useful crafting level. ...

If you reincarnate or have lots of alts, you can avoid spending most of this $15 by getting success boosters (25% instead of 35% from store) and Crafting XP Pots (75% instead of 100% from store) for free from completing the crafting tutorial in house k once per toon per TR. It requires more essences than the store route but its a viable option.

[Selvera]

The success boosters are BtC not BtA, so you can't really farm those except by TR. However the XP pots are BtA, so get a few of those to make your leveling much easier. You can also use 10% success boosters which you can buy for plat in game. 10% success boosters and 75% XP elixirs are great for making your cannith leveling much more manageable.

[SuperNiCd]

If only this were true. Those damned Glass Phials are eluding me even with the farm. Maybe I need to try a Temple of Vol instead of Gianthold.

Yeah, if you aren't getting what you need, try different quests. I know that a node of a given level and type is supposed to drop all eligible mats equally. But in my observation that isn't true. Grimm & Barrett and Lords of Dust HC have never once dropped a house sealed letter for me - though I got plenty of the other uncommon T3 Lores in them. But Church & The cult dropped quite a few of them. Just one example, and I'm sure I didn't enough runs to be statistically conclusive or anything. But worth switching up the quest to see if you get different results if you're never getting a drop an a particular mat.

[LeadHero5]

should be much more available. They were level 19 in the old system, I got there in a week or two.

Side rant

It always makes me roll my eyes when crafting and character planning guides have to be written by players, not Turbine.

[changelingamuck]

Farming collectables is very manageable, even for weaker characters, since collectables drop just as well on normal as they do on elite, and just as well in quests 20 levels below you as they do on quests at your level. A first life character at level 30 shouldn’t have much trouble farming most of the collectables in the game.

This is actually the problem with the system though.

Collectible farming really shouldn't be 'a thing' at all. I think that the vast majority of players would agree that spending gaming time taking their level 30 characters through low-level quests mindlessly dashing from collectible node to collectible node is not FUN.

And a crafting system that pressures you to keep a character in epic levels in order to continually use it effectively (so that you can farm high Tier collectibles and farm low Tier collectibles faster) has a serious problem. Not everyone has or wants to have a character at or near level-cap just so we can mindlessly slog through low-level content clicking on cabinets and backpacks waiting for collectible X, Y, or Z to appear so that we can get back to doing something that we actually enjoy. What if a person only has two characters? The new CC system incentivizes not TR-ing so much that one of them will need to be stuck at level 30 forever.

The fact that a first life character at level 30 shouldn't have much trouble farming most of the collectibles in the game doesn't make me any happier about the situation because collectible farming shouldn't be an activity built into the logic of a game system in the first place because it's not enjoyable.

And as you pointed out, if people want to craft certain things, the AH/ASAH is not a valid solution because of price-gouging. And the price-grouging exists specifically because players understand that what they're really selling when they're posting collectibles is the opportunity for buyers to avoid collectible farming themselves. The fact that this opportunity is so highly priced should really tell us something about how problematic the collectibles issue is within the new cannith crafting system.

[changelingamuck]

In other words, the fact that this thread, "This is How to Farm the Collectibles System Efficiently", exists at all reveals that there's a huge problem with Cannith crafting.

I don't want to farm the collectibles system efficiently because I don't want to farm it at all. I want to use Cannith crafting to its fullest potential without being side-tracked repeatedly by having to spend time on a tedious, utterly brain-dead activity with zero challenge and an 'excitement factor' that's the equivalent of pulling the lever on a slot machine repeatedly except the slot machine requires less actual effort.

[Pyed-Pyper]

In other words, the fact that this thread, "This is How to Farm the Collectibles System Efficiently", exists at all reveals that there's a huge problem with Cannith crafting.

I don't want to farm the collectibles system efficiently because I don't want to farm it at all. I want to use Cannith crafting to its fullest potential without being side-tracked repeatedly by having to spend time on a tedious, utterly brain-dead activity with zero challenge and an 'excitement factor' that's the equivalent of pulling the lever on a slot machine repeatedly except the slot machine requires less actual effort.

Agreed. Collectible farming = MacGuffin. Ingredients for items used by low level characters should be low level and relatively inexpensive. Item effects for low level characters should be available at low experience levels and at level-appropriate costs, or they won't get used at all.

Considering the interval between the introduction of cannith crafting and the long-promised (and by some, long-awaited) completion, I feel there is little chance of any changes happening within the foreseeable future.

[SuperNiCd]

Considering the interval between the introduction of cannith crafting and the long-promised (and by some, long-awaited) completion, I feel there is little chance of any changes happening within the foreseeable future.

Our crystal balls are in agreement here. So really what remains is how to make the best of what we've got.

The links in my signature are the best of what I've collected so far on the new crafting system. Some have already been mentioned in this thread, and none of them are my works - just "standing on the shoulders of giants" here.

Farming
My intent is to do a little at a time. Many of the runs mentioned in the farming thread are 1-3 minute endeavors. So I've been doing 15-20 minutes at a time mostly, then get on to more exciting things. In short intervals, its no less boring than many other activities in the game (purging your inventory, buying spell components, replenishing potion supplies, etc.)

Trade
As mentioned above, I'm unlikely to sell collectibles on the AH. Due to the current game economic conditions, I am taking in more plat than I spend in the course of normal questing. And I don't really like fussing with the fickle ASAH. But I'd be willing to trade collectibles. Things I need for things I have excess of. Or things I need right now for things I don't need right now. Rare for rare, uncommon for uncommon, etc. Bet others would too. So the trade window might be a good thing here.

In fact, might be cool to have a custom server-wide userchat called "CraftingTrade" or something like that on each server. Considering starting this on Sarlona and advertising it on the forums and maybe in general chat in the marketplace/harbor.

I think once a fair number of people have hit a happy crafting level, cannith essences will become a little less valuable. They aren't the scarce component of crafting anymore, the collectibles and PEDs are. So guessing people who run high level quests and decon a lot of gear might also be willing to trade big stacks of essences to those needing to level for some collectibles they don't feel like farming. Time will tell.

What ideas do others have?

[Sylvado]

So I got from 0 to 283 without much effort, spent a few bucks to do it but under $20. So now I can craft pretty much anything I need, just a bit more for levels 32-34. However, when I look at the component cost for unbound I have to wonder if there will ever be a market for unbound given it is so easy to craft your own.

[bsquishwizzy]

One comment about the "easy" collectible farming:

BULL.

Half of the problem is that what drops as a collectible is random, and it utilizes the same randomization engine that makes it such that some people can get an item on their first few runs, and then some people run stuff 40 times in a row and NEVER get the item. And THAT is maddening.

I remember a post by a guy who was farming Terror out of IQ. He was 42 runs in, and NEVER saw the weapon a single time.

So their alternative is to go to the AH, where they buy stuff for highly inflated prices. If they have the plat.

So no, collectible farming is *not* all that simple.

My solutions are to provide a trade-in system for Mysterious Remnants. Or provide a collectible exchange vendor that will trade 2-for-1 on given items of the same ranking, but different types. That way if you are top-heavy in - say - prayer beads, you can actually USE that to get something that you need: like skull fragments. Or provide 4-to-1 exchange for the next item up in the rank.

[Permian]

Glass Phial...bane of my DDO existence. If anyone out there knows of a relatively reliable place to farm these please reply. I've been around all of the Wiki and forum guides to no avail, it's insane as to how rare this collectable is and it really has turned me off to the game for a bit.

One comment about the "easy" collectible farming:

BULL.

Half of the problem is that what drops as a collectible is random, and it utilizes the same randomization engine that makes it such that some people can get an item on their first few runs, and then some people run stuff 40 times in a row and NEVER get the item. And THAT is maddening.

I remember a post by a guy who was farming Terror out of IQ. He was 42 runs in, and NEVER saw the weapon a single time.

So their alternative is to go to the AH, where they buy stuff for highly inflated prices. If they have the plat.

So no, collectible farming is *not* all that simple.

My solutions are to provide a trade-in system for Mysterious Remnants. Or provide a collectible exchange vendor that will trade 2-for-1 on given items of the same ranking, but different types. That way if you are top-heavy in - say - prayer beads, you can actually USE that to get something that you need: like skull fragments. Or provide 4-to-1 exchange for the next item up in the rank.