Cannith Crafted melee gearset

[EllisDee37]

My favorite thing is mixing and matching gearsets. I'm thinking a generic, all-purpose crafted melee gearset to handle leveling would be nice and simple. Figure five copies: three heroic and two epic, then leave endgame gearsets for named items. Something like levels 3, 7, 13, 20, and 26. Or whatever makes sense based on how the effects scale.

I'm thinking the list of desired effects would be:

Deadly (+Insightful)
Accuracy (+Insightful)
Seeker (+Insightful)
Doublestrike
Armor-Piercing
Strength (+Insightful)
Constitution (+Insightful)
Healing Amp
Fortification (+Insightful)
False Life
Resistance
Parrying
Sheltering
Insightful PRR
Insightful MRR
True Seeing
Striding

Deathblock and Feather Falling are ignored because they can be slotted as yellow augments.

Any other core effects I missed?

EDIT: Quick links for easy reference: Talk:Cannith_Crafting/U32 * ML Spreadsheet * Planner

[dunklezhan]

Deathblock and Feather Falling are ignored because they can be slotted as yellow augments.

I think you should include deathblock, since you can't get that from a trader - that's store or RNG only. Large numbers of my characters no longer carry a DB item because being current lootgen RNG it is usually polluted with some second effect that's totally useless, and the augment is near impossible to get in game.

[cru121]

Crafting all this is gonna be very expensive.
Fortification is imho best slotted.
Insightful MRR is on remnants gear.
False Life has rather slow progression in the new system, perhaps augments would work here as well, or named/legacy crafted items.

Imho it's better to build crafted gear around the best named items. I am looking at Mysterious Cloak/Bracers, Pansophic Circlet, Ring of Prowess..

[EllisDee37]

Here's a first pass:

Trinket can hold most of these effects, so the idea will be to save trinket for a last resort. And we definitely don't want to be crafting effects on weapons, so weapon is right out. So ignoring weapon and saving trinket for last resort, here's my thinking:

• Ideally bracers and cloak would be left open for blurry (bracers of wind) and ghostly (cloak of invisibility)
• Neck and Ring support exactly one each of prefix, suffix, and extra, and it's the same for both. So for the two rings and one necklace slot, craft a single Health necklace/ring of False Life w/Insightful Constitution and leave the other two slots available for named items.
• Armor Piercing only goes on gloves as a suffix, so Gloves of Armor Piercing
• That only leaves a single suffix slot to place deadly, goggles, so Goggles of Deadly
• Insightful Deadly only goes on trinket, so Trinket w/Insightful Deadly
• Eliminating the already-taken effects, armor now only supports one prefix, suffix and extra, so we have Fortification armor of Healing Amp w/Parrying
• That only leaves a single suffix for boots, so Boots of Strength
• That only leaves a single prefix for belt, so Doublestrike belt
• That only leaves a single prefix for gloves, so Alacrity gloves (of Armor Piercing)
• Striding for the Boots prefix because...duh. Striding boots of Strength
• Seeker is the only prefix available for goggles, so Seeker goggles (of Deadly)

Here's the gearset so far:

Head :
Eyes : Seeker goggles of Deadly
Neck :
Back :
Wrist:
Hand: Alacrity gloves of Armor Piercing
Waist: Doublestrike belt
Feet : Striding boots of Strength
Ring : Health ring of False Life w/Insightful Constitution (can be moved to necklace)
Ring :
Trinket: Trinket w/Insightful Deadly
Armor : Fortification armor of Healing Amp w/Parrying

At this point I remembered to add Sheltering, and Insightful PRR & MRR, which invalidates a couple of the above statements. The insightfuls go on cloak, ring and necklace, but also head and bracers. Nothing broken so far, continuing...

• The only head prefix not taken yet is sheltering, so Sheltering helm
• Insightful Seeker is the only extra for goggles, so Seeker goggles of Deadly w/Insightful Seeker
• That leaves only Insightful Fortification for the extra boot slot, so Striding boots of Strength w/Insightful Fortification
• Head extra can take either insightful ?RR, so let's go with Sheltering helm w/Insightful PRR
• The only extra effect for belts not yet taken is Insightful Strength, so Doublestrike belt w/Insightful Strength
• Insightful Accuracy's only available slot remaining is gloves, so Alacrity gloves of Armor Piercing w/Insightful Accuracy
• True Seeing only goes on trinket (goggles is taken) so Trinket of True Seeing w/Insightful Deadly
• Accuracy can now only fit as a suffix on the helmet: Sheltering helm of Accuracy w/Insightful PRR
• Resistance can now only fit as a prefix on the trinket: Resistance trinket of True Seeing w/Insightful Deadly

That makes this the final melee gearset for leveling from 1 to late epics, switching out of this only when high enough level to wear your endgame gear:

Head : Sheltering helm of Accuracy w/Insightful PRR
Eyes : Seeker goggles of Deadly w/Insightful Seeker
Neck :
Back :
Wrist:
Hand: Alacrity gloves of Armor Piercing w/Insightful Accuracy
Waist: Doublestrike belt (of Stunning or Jump) w/Insightful Strength
Feet : Striding boots of Strength w/Insightful Fortification
Ring : Health ring of False Life w/Insightful Constitution
Ring :
Trinket: Resistance trinket of True Seeing w/Insightful Deadly
Armor : Fortification armor of Healing Amp w/Parrying

The only thing left to slot is Insightful MRR, which just happens to go on every open slot we have left: Necklace (extra), Cloak (extra), Bracers (suffix), Ring (extra). So if you really want Insightful MRR, put it in any of those slots with whatever else good you can find to craft. (Maybe some skills?)

For me, I'll just wear bracers of wind, cloak of invisibility, maybe craft up some greensteel HP necklaces, and whatever the most interesting named ring I can find. Maybe that DR/Lawful one from Gianthold.

[EllisDee37]

What levels make the most sense for upgrades based on the spreadsheet? Ideally, gearsets would be ML2, ML7, ML13, ML20 and ML26.

Sheltering helm of Accuracy w/Insightful PRR
- Sheltering scales smoothly (increases every level)
- Insightful PRR goes up during odd levels
- Accuracy scaling unknown
Best progression: ???

Seeker goggles of Deadly w/Insightful Seeker
- Seeker increases at levels 2, 4, 6, 7, 10, 13, 15, 20, then progression is unknown for epics
- Deadly scaling unknown
- Insightful Seeker starts at level 5 (+1), then increases at levels 10, 15, 20, 25, 29 and 34
Best progression: 2, 7, 13, 20, 25(?)

Alacrity gloves of Armor Piercing w/Insightful Accuracy
- Alacrity scaling unknown
- Armor Piercing scaling unknown
- Insightful Accuracy scaling partially known; progression is unclear
Bets progression: ???

Doublestrike belt w/Insightful Strength
- Doublestrike progression unknown
- Insightful Stats start at level 4 (+1), then increas at levels 7, 13, 18, 23, 29 and 34
Best progression: 2, 7, 13, 23

Striding boots of Strength w/Insightful Fortification
- Striding progression unknown
- Stats give +1 @ ML1, then increase at levels 2, 4, 5, 7, 10 (+6), 13, 15, 18, 21, 23, 26, 29, 32, 34
- Insightful Fortification scales smoothly (increases every level)
Best progression: 2, 7, 13, 21, 26

Health ring of False Life w/Insightful Constitution
- Stats give +1 @ ML1, then increase at levels 2, 4, 5, 7, 10 (+6), 13, 15, 18, 21, 23, 26, 29, 32, 34
- False Life appears to scale smoothly (increase every level)
- Insightful Stats start at level 4 (+1), then increas at levels 7, 13, 18, 23, 29 and 34
Best progression: 2, 7, 13, 21, 26

Resistance trinket of True Seeing w/Insightful Deadly
- Resistance gives +1 @ ML1, then increases at levels 2, 4, 7, 10, 13, 17, 20, 23, 27, 30, 33
- True Seeing is ML14
- Insightful Deadly starts at ML4 (+1), then increases at 10, 17, 23, 30
Best progression: 2, 7, 14, 20, 23

Fortification armor of Healing Amp w/Parrying
- Fortification scales smoothly (increases every level)
- Healing Amp scales smoothly (increases every level)
- Parrying gives +1 @ ML4, then increases at levels 7, 13, 18, 23, 29, 34
Best progression: 2, 7, 13, 18, 23


And I just realized that I forgot Dodge and Insightful Dodge, but I suppose those aren't relevant for heavy armor builds so it's not a universal effect like resistance or fortification.

[EllisDee37]

I wonder if I could fit trapping skills in there somewhere. I notice that the belt has no suffix, and I have a whole ring slot open. Hmmm...

What about run speed? Or are you counting with bugged Chronoscope?

Chronoscope has never bugged for me, but I picked up Quiver of Alacrity for all my alts during the birthday event.

But that's a good call. Striding would be a good effect to fit in there. That could take the place of Dexterity as the Boots prefix.

For a heavy armored melee, at least in heroics, some Natural Armor and Protection gear can be useful if you have room left. Jump skill. Charisma/Persuasion gear for UMD, but those can be swapped.

I thought about Charisma/Persuasion, (Persuasion ring of Charisma seems like a natural fit) and also Concentration.

Oh, hey, nice, I see the belt suffix could be your choice of Stunning or Jump. That works.

Concentration...hmmm...not sure where that would go.

[EllisDee37]

I went back and edited Striding into the boots, in place of Dex.

[Elfishski]

What levels make the most sense for upgrades based on the spreadsheet? Ideally, gearsets would be ML2, ML7, ML13, ML20 and ML26.

Sheltering helm of Accuracy w/Insightful PRR
- Sheltering scales smoothly (increases every level)
- Insightful PRR goes up during odd levels
- Accuracy scaling unknown
Bets progression: ???

Seeker goggles of Deadly w/Insightful Seeker
- Seeker increases at levels 2, 4, 6, 7, 10, 13, 15, 20, then progression is unknown for epics
- Deadly scaling unknown
- Insightful Seeker starts at level 5 (+1), then increases at levels 10, 15, 20, 25, 29 and 34
Best progression: 2, 7, 13, 20, 25(?)

Alacrity gloves of Armor Piercing w/Insightful Accuracy
- Alacrity scaling unknown
- Armor Piercing scaling unknown
- Insightful Accuracy scaling partially known; progression is unclear
Bets progression: ???

Doublestrike belt w/Insightful Strength
- Doublestrike progression unknown
- Insightful Stats start at level 4 (+1), then increas at levels 7, 13, 18, 23, 29 and 34
Best progression: 2, 7, 13, 23

Dextrous boots of Strength w/Insightful Fortification
- Stats give +1 @ ML1, then increase at levels 2, 4, 5, 7, 10 (+6), 13, 15, 18, 21, 23, 26, 29, 32, 34
- Insightful Fortification scales smoothly (increases every level)
Best progression: 2, 7, 13, 21, 26

Health ring of False Life w/Insightful Constitution
- Stats give +1 @ ML1, then increase at levels 2, 4, 5, 7, 10 (+6), 13, 15, 18, 21, 23, 26, 29, 32, 34
- False Life appears to scale smoothly (increase every level)
- Insightful Stats start at level 4 (+1), then increas at levels 7, 13, 18, 23, 29 and 34
Best progression: 2, 7, 13, 21, 26

Resistance trinket of True Seeing w/Insightful Deadly
- Resistance gives +1 @ ML1, then increases at levels 2, 4, 7, 10, 13, 17, 20, 23, 27, 30, 33
- True Seeing is ML14
- Insightful Deadly starts at ML4 (+1), then increases at 10, 17, 23, 30
Best progression: 2, 7, 14, 20, 23

Fortification armor of Healing Amp w/Parrying
- Fortification scales smoothly (increases every level)
- Healing Amp scales smoothly (increases every level)
- Parrying gives +1 @ ML4, then increases at levels 7, 13, 18, 23, 29, 34
Best progression: 2, 7, 13, 18, 23


And I just realized that I forgot Dodge and Insightful Dodge, but I suppose those aren't relevant for heavy armor builds so it's not a universal effect like resistance or fortification.

It's pretty obvious random loot below level 30 is completely dead in the longer term when (given time to afford ingredients) you can craft these. No random loot will ever replace anything anyone crafts, and a crafted set like this will be a huge amount of power creep at all levels.

Devs, tone the bonuses down a bit so random loot isn't invalidated. Then it's still worth crafting an awesome set of effects as proposed here, but it won't be the end of ever looking at loot in chests (again).

It's disappointing.

[dunklezhan]

It's pretty obvious random loot below level 30 is completely dead in the longer term when (given time to afford ingredients) you can craft these. No random loot will ever replace anything anyone crafts, and a crafted set like this will be a huge amount of power creep at all levels.

Devs, tone the bonuses down a bit so random loot isn't invalidated. Then it's still worth crafting an awesome set of effects as proposed here, but it won't be the end of ever looking at loot in chests (again).

It's disappointing.

They aren't as good as the theoretical values you could get on lootgen, which can be freely traded and could drop for absolutely anyone, anytime. All of the above is being considered as bound.

Have you got any idea how much time would be involved in crafting this lot, even if you ignore the time spent levelling crafting, getting the ingredients for this would be...

Well.

Ellis, you got an ingredient count for all this? I'm not sure I want to know how much it would cost to make unbound, even assuming no crafting failures.

[Renvar]

It's pretty obvious random loot below level 30 is completely dead in the longer term when (given time to afford ingredients) you can craft these. No random loot will ever replace anything anyone crafts, and a crafted set like this will be a huge amount of power creep at all levels.

Devs, tone the bonuses down a bit so random loot isn't invalidated. Then it's still worth crafting an awesome set of effects as proposed here, but it won't be the end of ever looking at loot in chests (again).

It's disappointing.

My understanding of the loot tree is: (best on top)

Really, Really lucky Ran Gen Loot (win the lottery/struck by lightning)
Raid Loot
Named Loot
CC Loot
Average Ran Gen Loot

CC loot is supposed to be better than the majority of Random Loot pulls, but Random Loot can be better. It's just going to be really freaking rare.

[cru121]

What about run speed? Or are you counting with bugged Chronoscope?

For a heavy armored melee, at least in heroics, some Natural Armor and Protection gear can be useful if you have room left. Jump skill. Charisma/Persuasion gear for UMD, but those can be swapped.

[bsquishwizzy]

What about run speed? Or are you counting with bugged Chronoscope?

For a heavy armored melee, at least in heroics, some Natural Armor and Protection gear can be useful if you have room left. Jump skill. Charisma/Persuasion gear for UMD, but those can be swapped.

I'd also add CHR & Intim for pulling mobs away from casters.

Also, a possible consideration for DEX on the fringe DEX-based builds and/or skills (spitballin' here)?

Plus adding Resistance is nice, but I think it helps to maybe have Enchantment resistance additionally with WIS for will saves? Or maybe a modest amount of SR as an alternative?

Again, just throwing out a few ideas here.

[EllisDee37]

Fortification is imho best slotted.

At low levels, but the crafted version goes above 100% starting at level 17. (Only 101%, but still.)

The above crafted fort + insightful fort combine for 99% at level 7, and goes up from there.

I think you should include deathblock, since you can't get that from a trader - that's store or RNG only. Large numbers of my characters no longer carry a DB item because being current lootgen RNG it is usually polluted with some second effect that's totally useless, and the augment is near impossible to get in game.

Fair enough, but I consider them cheap. I think they're only like 75 TP.

[Feithlin]

My favorite thing is mixing and matching gearsets. I'm thinking a generic, all-purpose crafted melee gearset to handle leveling would be nice and simple. Figure five copies: three heroic and two epic, then leave endgame gearsets for named items. Something like levels 3, 7, 13, 20, and 26. Or whatever makes sense based on how the effects scale.

This is what I am planning so far:

Belt................Dstrike............Parrying... ....iCon
Boots.............Striding...........Str.......... ....iDodge
Bracers...........Resistance......iPRR............ .iStr
Cloak..............Int (for KtA)....Dodge..........iInt
Gloves............Alacrity...........HA........... ....iAccuracy
Googles..........Seeker............Deadly......... .iSeeker
Helm..............Sheltering.......Accuracy....... iMRR
Necklace.........Con...............Cha............ ..iCha
Ring...............Wizardry.........Dex........... ...iDex
Armor ............False Life

I didn't use trinket (this is the joker slot) and could ease the setup by using more armor slots.

[EllisDee37]

This is what I am planning so far:

Belt................Dstrike............Parrying... ....iCon
Boots.............Striding...........Str.......... ....iDodge
Bracers...........Resistance......iPRR............ .iStr
Cloak..............Int (for KtA)....Dodge..........iInt
Gloves............Alacrity...........HA........... ....iAccuracy
Googles..........Seeker............Deadly......... .iSeeker
Helm..............Sheltering.......Accuracy....... iMRR
Necklace.........Con...............Cha............ ..iCha
Ring...............Wizardry.........Dex........... ...iDex
Armor ............False Life

I didn't use trinket (this is the joker slot) and could ease the setup by using more armor slots.

Nice! I'll spend some time analyzing that, though I'll miss not having blurry due to having crafted bracers. (Could be halfway made up for with a dusk heart, though.) Another plus of not using trinket is that you can easily swap in PLIS without concern. And I like that you incorporated iMRR. That's pretty sweet.

However, giving up Inisghtful Deadly (which only goes on trinkets) seems like a major loss for a melee character.

EDIT: Wizardry is okay, but I'm fine slotting that in a yellow. It's less mana per level, but meh. Plenty for a melee. Still, if you end up with an open spot, and wizardry goes there, for sure. Good choice.

Is it worth throwing in Devotion for Cleric, Druids, FvS and Paladins?

Devotion can be slotted in a red on a named weapon, which will also give you an implement bonus. However, the crafted version might end up a little higher than augment+implement, so it's worth keeping an eye on.

Insightful Spellpower is definitely worth considering, which can be put in the extra slot on gloves or trinket.

I'm also liking some of the suggestions (enchantment save, spell resistance, etc...) so I might do a second pass.

[Gremmlynn]

Nice! I'll spend some time analyzing that, though I'll miss not having blurry due to having crafted bracers. (Could be halfway made up for with a dusk heart, though.) Another plus of not using trinket is that you can easily swap in PLIS without concern. And I like that you incorporated iMRR. That's pretty sweet.

Greater Nimble Trinket from Crystal Cove is full blur at a lower ML, 5 iirc.

[EllisDee37]

Thinking further about a universal melee gearset for all possible melee, unfortunately all stats become desirable:

Strength - attack and damage, or carrying capacity for a non-strength build
Dexterity - for dex builds, also reflex saves
Constitution - every build wants con, plus for damage on dwarven TYWA builds
Intelligence - for int builds, but also str/dex/whatever builds might still want to use know the angles
Wisdom - for monks, will saves, and to allow paladins/rangers/battleclerics who dump wis to cast spells
Charisma - for cha builds (pdk bards), umd, and paladin saves

Then there are some crucial skills for certain builds:

Concentration - for monks, and also scroll healing
Perform - a melee bard really wants a perform item equipped
Spot - I've run multiple trapper lives without spot, but i much prefer having it where possible
Intimidate - If your build is designed to intimidate, it would suck not having it on your gear

Other useful skills (Heal, Jump, Balance, Bluff, etc...) are nice but not critical, so they can be slotted in a colorless. Heck, some of the "big 4" above might have to be relegated to an augment anyway.

I also looked into tactical bonuses, thinking the two big ones are Stunning and Vertigo. Insightful for either is the same bonus as Insightful Combat Mastery, so ICM is the no-brainer choice. Then I compared to basic bonuses, and Combat Mastery is very competitive with individual bonus effects. +7 vs +10, for example. So I decided that Combat Mastery is the way to go for a universal gearset.

Ignoring "extra" effects, that makes 7 combat effects to fit in: Deadly, Accuracy, Seeker, Armor Piercing, Doublestrike, Alacrity, Combat Mastery.

I looked closer at Enchantment Save shards, which I've long been a fan of. (Most of my alts wear a BTA Enchantment Save +6 helm until level 9, usually.) Turns out that "spell saves" gives the same bonus value, but works for all spells. This would stack with both resistance and enchantment saves, but trying to fit in both is a step too far, I think. Just sticking with Spell Saves (+Insightful) is probably the best compromise. But that brings the total to 8 or 9 defensive effects desired, again ignoring "extra" effects:

False Life, Fortification, Dodge, Spell Resistance, Sheltering, Resistance, Spell Saves, Healing Amp(, Devotion?)

And finally, there are 2 quality of life effects: Striding and True Seeing.




The issue is that there are 12 gear slots including armor but excluding weapons/shields. That's a maximum of 24 prefixes and suffixes that can be crafted. Unfortunately, I just tallied up 27 or 28 desirable effects:

6 stats
4 skills
7 combat
9 defense
2 quality of life
---
28 prefix/suffix effects

That's not even getting into "extra" effects, where we only have 12 total slots to work with. If we want all stats, that's 6 insightful stats and we're left with only 6 available.

A universal melee gearset for leveling may not be an achievable dream.

[Cantor]

I would move con from neck to armor. I like to swap a silverflame neck for beholders etc and it would be nice to not lose hp on swap. Also put parry on armor extra slot. Which lets you move false life to the belt suffix. Which lets you move Hamp to armor which opens glove suffix. There are a lot of nice glove suffixes either unused in this setup, or to move something around.

edit: don't see anything really good to replace neck prefix, I guess that's why you put con there. It just doesn't work well with swapping for me. Maybe a special save type?

If you don't have the swapping issue, you could leave con on neck and put combat mast on armor prefix.

[Stoner81]

Greater Nimble Trinket from Crystal Cove is full blur at a lower ML, 5 iirc.

Bracers of Wind from the Cannith Challenges grant Blurry at ML3.

Thinking further about a universal melee gearset for all possible melee, unfortunately all stats become desirable:

Strength - attack and damage, or carrying capacity for a non-strength build
Dexterity - for dex builds, also reflex saves
Constitution - every build wants con, plus for damage on dwarven TYWA builds
Intelligence - for int builds, but also str/dex/whatever builds might still want to use know the angles
Wisdom - for monks, will saves, and to allow paladins/rangers/battleclerics who dump wis to cast spells
Charisma - for cha builds (pdk bards), umd, and paladin saves

<snip>

Maybe look at if from a different perspective...

While all those stats are "needed" they only are so on certain builds, by this I mean that not all 6 stats are needed all the time. Maybe you could work out something like "right I want these specific things which covers every build, these other slots are interchangeable depending on the build". So for example you have Gloves which you use for STR/DEX/whatever, the same could apply to any other slot (obviously depending on where stuff can be crafted) anyway you get the idea probably a bad idea knowing me if nothing else I am consistent in bad ideas lol!

Yep. Armor Piercing is a particularly useful glove suffix for melee dps.

The more I play around with different setups the more I'm convinced that the ideal armor is Fortification of Healing Amp w/Parrying because all three shards are super cheap, which makes it easy to create multiple versions. (Cloth, Light, Medium, Heavy, Docent) It's also super easy to replace Heal Amp with Repair Amp on the docent if you prefer.

Figure use base armor with a blue slot and slot in good luck.

How about Heavy Fort instead in the Blue slot which opens up the prefix slot though no idea what else could go there that would be worth doing this.

Stoner81.

[EllisDee37]

Belt................Dstrike............Parrying... ....iCon
Boots.............Striding...........Str.......... ....iDodge
Bracers...........Resistance......iPRR............ .iStr
Cloak..............Int (for KtA)....Dodge..........iInt
Gloves............Alacrity...........HA........... ....iAccuracy
Googles..........Seeker............Deadly......... .iSeeker
Helm..............Sheltering.......Accuracy....... iMRR
Necklace.........Con...............Cha............ ..iCha
Ring...............Wizardry.........Dex........... ...iDex
Armor ............False Life

On further analysis, I'm unsurprised that you only specified one ring. (The second ring is your second joker slot, along with trinket?) Ring affixes blow chunks.