Update 32 on Lamannia: Cannith Crafting Preview

[Cleanincubus]

The crafting level and collectables needed for most non-scaling effects are way off. Note that all new Collectables are only found in level 21+ quests. Here's a comparison from Live to what is on Lammania (all Bound Shards).

Blindness Immunity - From crafting level 25 to level 250, and 5 new Collectables.


Ghost Touch - From crafting level 19 to level 250, and 15 of one new Collectables & 5 of another.


Invulnerability - From crafting level 15 to level 250, and 15 of one new Collectables & 5 of another.


Sacred - From crafting level 8 to level 250, and 15 of one new Collectables & 5 of another.
New image shared with one above.

True Seeing - From crafting level 79 to level 250, and DOWN 2 Purified Dragonshard Fragments but increased to 15 of one new Collectables & 10 of another. So from a Collectable standpoint, a positive thing ?


Metalline actually got better as well, getting rid of the 2 Purified Dragonshard Fragments and only gaining 5 of the new Collectables. It also only gained 150 crafting levels, which is far more realistic for such a powerful Effect.

[GeoffWatson]

The crafting level and collectables needed for most non-scaling effects are way off. Note that all new Collectables are only found in level 21+ quests. Here's a comparison from Live to what is on Lammania (all Bound Shards).

Invulnerability - From crafting level 15 to level 250, and 15 of one new Collectables & 5 of another.

That's totally crazy.
Invulnerability is only useful at low levels, and now requires lots of epic level collectables?
The other items you list are nearly as bad.

Too many epic quests (eg everything in FR) have no collectables. Where are we supposed to get the epic collectables?

[AMADHA]

Not to mention other ingredients, where sometimes the material cost is so high I'll double consider crafting something like False Life EVER, provided I have materials enough for 10 likely shards then it's off. And I am collecting mats for 7 years or so.

Briefly:

- Create the "convert all essences" button. Cleaner and easier way then current system on Lama.

- Lessen the cost of essences in new crafting, especially unbound shourd. They cost A LOT.

- Eliminate, or just slow then the "less XP for you, because of crafting" mechanism. It's ok, that I get less to zero XP when I craft below my crafting level, but until the target shard to be crafter is at least the same level as my crafting level, please stop penelazing the xp. There's literally NOTHING to craft, but ML 26-27-28 etc shards to craft... What if I run out of xp? I'm screwed for life or what ?

- Lessen the spec/rare ingredient requirement. For the newly intruduced mats they have to be found/farmed first let alone being crafted in huge numbers and I doubt it would change for a very long time.

Conclusion: I know it's Lamannia and I hope each and every feedback is read/considered but I know If the revised CC system remains as is, it'll be only a few to craft high-end shard, strictly bound and it won't be everyday thing to craft. Also many will just get stucked around level 280-300. Or even before.

Conclusion 2: I like the very idea how all the crafting system is being consolidated (one type of crafting essence and the way prefix and suffix is done) and some more which I'll not repeat, since all there is in the release notes. I like the whole as it is. Wish I'd be able to create top gear, any time soon this update launches since I have three maxed out toons who would benifit from CC crafted items.

I fully, and completely agree with this post. The conversion routine is ... less than well thought out. You're moving from one system to another, so just do it already. I also agree that the level conversion seems to reduce what I could craft before, the XP grant post conversion is really poor, and to top it off it's abysmally difficult to actually craft anything useful because of all the supplemental stuff that is now required. That stuff was limited for most low to mid-level stuff and now it's seems like a requirement. So I'm on an ever decreasing capability curve with this new system due to the changes in crafting requirements. Well, you could just buy them. Please note: I'm not EVER going to waste points ($) on crafting materials, ever. So thanks for making something of some utility less than useful just like you did with the collectors change... I could collect inventory clutter and exchange them for stuff, the more I had the better the stuff but now you need diamonds to get that better stuff. So I stopped collecting and those treasure bags being dropped are just so much screen litter now. So while actually fixing many bad parts of the crafting process you add a twist that basically makes the whole thing a source of more stuff I will forever be leaving in a chest since there is no point to collecting them since I will always need more of something than I have, or I can carry, to do anything useful.

Seriously, I have an tempest ranger elf that I've struggled to get to level 18 (I play mostly solo for various reasons), he's my first toon and he just sucks. I rebuilt him with stones a few times using various forum assists but he's basically the same character I started with. In the beginning an elf trained from birth with long-swords and bows working as a ranger seemed like a great character, yadda yadda, but he's terrible at dealing out death and destruction, at level, with the tools he is supposedly expert in. Why do I make this comment? Because the elf race seems broken to me, and the collecting thing while not great when I started playing it was OK... then it got "fixed" and I don't do it anymore. Now you're "fixing" crafting and from what I'm seeing I won't be doing that anymore either. As a VIP every change in the game does two things... highlights that my main toon is terrible (every festival REALLY points this out), and reduces my enjoyment of the game. One would think that doing the opposite would be the goal of such changes. Alas, earwax.

Here's a question? Does player numbers go up or down after 'improvements' like these? I'd like to know because the possibility of my stopping playing gets higher with every release.

[DYWYPI]

Referencing posts: [#279] and [#280]. Yes, I had also made a ML 1 Underwater Action item in the Test Dojo...

[...]I think something broken.

I'd concur that it doesn't seem to be fully implemented that's why I'm asking NoWorries or any other capable Turbine Representative. What their true intention (in Layman's Terms) was concerning ML and 'Underwater Action' and if they could make sure that it was no higher than ML 3 to equip? Like its currently within live DDO Cannith Crafting - I gave several valid reasons.

[Free2Pay]

Say Goodbye to
1) Wounding of Puncturing
2) Holy Burst of Pure Good
3) Shattermantle
4) Keen
5) Icy Burst (or anything Elemental Burst)
6) Stench

Tendon Slice (Suffix) and Tendon Slice (Extra) don't work.

All stat damaging effects display as another type in combat log.

[Nuclear_Elvis]

Say Goodbye to
1) Wounding of Puncturing
2) Holy Burst of Pure Good
3) Shattermantle
4) Keen
5) Icy Burst (or anything Elemental Burst)
6) Stench

Tendon Slice (Suffix) and Tendon Slice (Extra) don't work.

All stat damaging effects display as another type in combat log.

Don't forget some of the other lesser used ones not showing up, as I don't think "Vicious" is in the recipes either (which is a great effect if you're Half Orc and want to trigger boosted stats from reduced health).

Also, there are all the effects we lost from the New Loot System itself being implemented (such as the ultra-rare "Erosive" effect with "Greater Stone Prison"), and some of us were holding out hope that new crafting would bring back some of those lost effects. Instead, what we're seeing is a cementing in/solidifying of the existing New Loot System and its shortcomings, into new CC. The Dev's never admitted the depth/breadth of failures for the New Loot System, and have not put 100% effort into a Community influenced change to New Loots. Instead, we have Oz behind the curtain calling some mysterious shots toward this New Loot System and what it became and we're just supposed to "deal with it" seems to be the going Dev attitude (since we don't have official threads about New Loot System failures in detail, that's exactly how it all comes off regardless what the Dev's may really intend).

[lostgunman]

Yea, Confirmation from Cordovan that they will NOT be changing the shard costs and that they will not be adding in the missing shards for U32. (From last Dev Chat)

It was mentioned that there could possibly be a change in a patch or later update if this is a problem.

To me, it's bad planning and bad listening. EVERYONE in this thread was saying the collectible cost is too high or just bad in general. And I know a LOT of us crafters will really miss those missing shards.

This change is not looking good anymore.

Edit:
Also, they will not be putting in anything to convert all the currently made shards into anything, they will be just useless after the update...so decon them now.

[Evin_Drake]

Yea, Confirmation from Cordovan that they will NOT be changing the shard costs and that they will not be adding in the missing shards for U32. (From last Dev Chat)

It was mentioned that there could possibly be a change in a patch or later update if this is a problem.

To me, it's bad planning and bad listening. EVERYONE in this thread was saying the collectible cost is too high or just bad in general. And I know a LOT of us crafters will really miss those missing shards.

This change is not looking good anymore.

Edit:
Also, they will not be putting in anything to convert all the currently made shards into anything, they will be just useless after the update...so decon them now.

Which missing shards was he referring to? Keen, Impact and Vamp? Or others?

Also, any word on if applying spell power, insightful spell power or spell lore to a weapon will make it a spellcasting implement and grant the USP bonus accordingly?

[Vellrad]

There is a single school for the new Cannith Crafting system. The level cap is 400, and your previously-earned Cannith Crafting XP will be added together and carried over.
Level 50: 1,256 Cannith Crafting XP
Level 100: 7,313 XP
Level 150: 30,151 XP
Level 260: 245,580 <- where current maxed out crafters will end up.
Level 340: 472,752 XP
Level 400: 650,040 XP


Short version: If you were capped before, you're not even halfway done now. Good luck.

1.
I have 234?*057 XP now, and that's 147/146/145, so not even close to caps (200s), so people who are capped are going to have more XP and levels.
2.
And why should people with 200/200/200 be done before its live? Its like demanding your XP to accumulate, for future lvl cap increase, you're 40 on day 1.

[Krelar]

1.
I have 234?*057 XP now, and that's 147/146/145, so not even close to caps (200s), so people who are capped are going to have more XP and levels.
2.
And why should people with 200/200/200 be done before its live? Its like demanding your XP to accumulate, for future lvl cap increase, you're 40 on day 1.

Cap is 150 you're practically there.

Personally I don't mind that I have to level up some more on my capped crafter, I'm a little worried about the collectible costs but haven't had a chance to try it out myself yet.

[Vellrad]

Cap is 150 you're practically there.

Personally I don't mind that I have to level up some more on my capped crafter, I'm a little worried about the collectible costs but haven't had a chance to try it out myself yet.

Really?
I was sure they upped it to 200 some time ago.
Well, I'm gonna push one to 150 to see.

[RD2play]

Agreed on PEB being unbound as its the only ingredient people can't pass to a crafter. Only way around it is to run quests and have them pass tokens or agree on AS price and put in ASAH but there is always a chance, however small, someone unintended grabs the item fast.

Fragments are unbound, you could trade them instead. The crafter can then turn them in for PEDS.

After new Lammy build, still no Impact/Keen or Vamp shards... WAI or still incomplete?

Yeah unfortunately, also still no scaling keen for RGL either....

WHAT!!!????

Ahem... Okay outburst over. But seriously, ***? Is there a change I don't know about to collectibles and bag space?

Here's my thoughts on this:
We can carry a tiny and medium collectible bag for a total of 42 unique collectibles.
There are already like >100 different types of collectibles. How exactly are we supposed to craft anything if we need collectibles for everything? And they are adding even more collectibles for crafting? I know I don't have the bag space to carry 100+ collectibles around for crafting purposes. I really don't get it. Can someone please explain how this could possibly work???

Run Subterrain in marketplace, farm 150 planar shards and get yourself a large bag. Or two...

You do raise a point about what the changes are going to be concerning collectibles! In a live stream changes where mentioned but nothing concrete has been posted by any devs. A couple of questions need answering: Are collectibles going to no longer be House bound? but only depend on nodes? How are they going to be added into the Fearun stuff? will there be nodes added? or just trough purple bags? Will the droprate be changed? I noticed a piece of rubble in one of the new quests dropped a whole stack of stuff (though another pile dropped me a gem?!?).

The crafting level and collectables needed for most non-scaling effects are way off. Note that all new Collectables are only found in level 21+ quests. Here's a comparison from Live to what is on Lammania (all Bound Shards).

Blindness Immunity - From crafting level 25 to level 250, and 5 new Collectables.


<snip>

Metalline actually got better as well, getting rid of the 2 Purified Dragonshard Fragments and only gaining 5 of the new Collectables. It also only gained 150 crafting levels, which is far more realistic for such a powerful Effect.

Yeah it is totally out of wack! The "static"effects should be better distributed through the crafting levels!
T1 - Underwater Action, FeatherFall, Ghosttouch
T2 - Blind Immune, Invulnerability, (lionheart - Fear Immune, missing)
T3 - True seeing, Deathblock, Metalline, Aligned

I did not check them all but you get the drift. Ghosttouch adds only incorp bypass, which you are in need of quite early in the game. By the time you will be able to make this (components wise) you will have found a GhostBane item dealing both DMG as well as bypass incorporeal.

Say Goodbye to
1) Wounding of Puncturing
2) Holy Burst of Pure Good
3) Shattermantle
4) Keen
5) Icy Burst (or anything Elemental Burst)
6) Stench

Tendon Slice (Suffix) and Tendon Slice (Extra) don't work.

All stat damaging effects display as another type in combat log.

And Crit-Banes! Don't forget the Crit-Banes! (no Crit effects are added at all btw)

Yea, Confirmation from Cordovan that they will NOT be changing the shard costs and that they will not be adding in the missing shards for U32. (From last Dev Chat)

It was mentioned that there could possibly be a change in a patch or later update if this is a problem.

To me, it's bad planning and bad listening. EVERYONE in this thread was saying the collectible cost is too high or just bad in general. And I know a LOT of us crafters will really miss those missing shards.

This change is not looking good anymore.

Edit:
Also, they will not be putting in anything to convert all the currently made shards into anything, they will be just useless after the update...so decon them now.

Well that is to bad then! I know I will do a lot less crafting under the new system. Initially I will burn mats to get my levels up, making ML shards. But after I will prolly run out of collectibles soon, so I will hold off till I really need/want an item. In any case I am first going to gauge if there are any changes to the collectible drops. And wont be crafting willy-nilly for my alts if they need a quick item for a few levels.

Edit: Also there are currently in the lamma build 4 shards at least that you can make but not attach to anything! I bugged them, so I hope they do get fixed, and then I don't mean get removed!

[EllisDee37]

There is a single school for the new Cannith Crafting system. The level cap is 400, and your previously-earned Cannith Crafting XP will be added together and carried over.
Level 50: 1,256 Cannith Crafting XP
Level 100: 7,313 XP
Level 150: 30,151 XP
Level 260: 245,580 <- where current maxed out crafters will end up.
Level 340: 472,752 XP
Level 400: 650,040 XP


Short version: If you were capped before, you're not even halfway done now. Good luck.

1.
I have 234?*057 XP now, and that's 147/146/145, so not even close to caps (200s), so people who are capped are going to have more XP and levels.
2.
And why should people with 200/200/200 be done before its live? Its like demanding your XP to accumulate, for future lvl cap increase, you're 40 on day 1.

It's largely irrelevant.

I'm not even capped (in the 140s, lower than Vellrad) and I will be able to immediately make every single bound effect shard in the game as soon as it goes live. So it's not like I'm only "halfway there." The highest bound effect is something like level 280, and my low/mid 140s translates to level 251 in the new system.

Unbound shards are entirely irrelevant, as they are far too expensive to craft anything for other people, even if they tried to supply the mats. Because they can't: One of the most expensive mats (purifieds) is unbound, and every single unbound recipe calls for them. So unbound crafting will die no matter what, meaning all crafting levels above 300 may as well not even exist.

[UurlockYgmeov]

It's largely irrelevant.

I'm not even capped (in the 140s, lower than Vellrad) and I will be able to immediately make every single bound effect shard in the game as soon as it goes live. So it's not like I'm only "halfway there." The highest bound effect is something like level 280, and my low/mid 140s translates to level 251 in the new system.

Unbound shards are entirely irrelevant, as they are far too expensive to craft anything for other people, even if they tried to supply the mats. Because they can't: One of the most expensive mats (purifieds) is unbound, and every single unbound recipe calls for them. So unbound crafting will die no matter what, meaning all crafting levels above 300 may as well not even exist.

aren't Purified Eberron Dragonshards (PED) bound (bta)?

[Zafaron]

Would it be possible to include in the tooltip for crafting shards (bound or unbound) which piece of equipment that the shard can be placed onto? Currently it seems like you have to run back and forth between the shard crafting station and the item crafting station to see if the piece of gear you want to build is possible. Since the information for which piece of equipment a shard can be placed on already exists on the other crafting station, maybe it wouldn't be too difficult to add that information to the tooltip where the shards themselves are crafted?

Or better yet, add an additional filter onto the crafting station itself where the filter for XP, Level and Proficiency are, for the gear slot you are interested in crafting. Like a dropdown menu or a check box to pick say... belt, and then all the shards that could be placed on a belt would be listed and the others would be hidden.

I know it's kinda late in the game, and I'm not sure how complicated or difficult such a change would be, but it would make life a lot easier for players.

[Vellrad]

aren't Purified Eberron Dragonshards (PED) bound (bta)?

Bet 100k he made a typo.

[Wipey]

So unbound crafting will die no matter what, meaning all crafting levels above 300 may as well not even exist.

Die ? I bet after a day or two after crafting goes live we will see lots of uber unbound crafted items for sale.
It's not hard to get purified shards.

[Vellrad]

Now that I see tables at wiki, I'd halve collectable/essence cost of shards and ammos, runestones, and double costs of min lvl shard.

[DYWYPI]

Since it was mentioned above about lots of good (desirable) unbound crafted items appearing for sale on AH, we'll presume a Epic Level item, with 3 useful Slots. I could be totally wrong but I personally doubt they'll be loads of Epic level Unbound Crafting items for sale in the Platinum Auction within the first week - or even a steady flow afterwards. Since obtaining Collectables is the major choke point or grind.

Let's have a look at some simple gear, e.g. ML 20 Spot Goggles with three effects: Spot, Insightful Spot and Wisdom

I believe (E&OE) that would require the following:

• 1950 Cannith Essences
• 14 Purified Eberron Dragonshards
• 30 Amber Vials
• 10 Khyber Prayer Pamphlets
• 2 Vials of Contagion
• 30 Cryptic Messages
• 10 Silver Bowls
• 5 Sanguine Moths
• 30 Singed Soarwoods
• 10 Silver Flame Hymnals
• 2 Lightning-Split Soarwoods

Even in raw materials if you sourced them all currently on the Thelanis Auction House that would likely set you back over: 1,640,000pp. That's considering much lower than average weekly prices for those materials. (It's not uncommon to see Eberron Dragonshards posted at over 500,000pp 'starting price' or higher but I'm using lower values, about half that).

So if you were the Crafter and wanted to even break-even, you'd need to be selling those Goggles well over 2-million Platinum... There are probably much easier ways to make platinum than grinding Crafting materials and selling those goggles. It totals around 130 Collectables just for that single item alone. I doubt hardcore Crafters will be falling-over-themselves to make unbound items on a whim to place upon AH if they have to farm all the raw materials themselves.

[Nuclear_Elvis]

This new CC system gives opportunity to correct a long-standing error, the reduction of XP to zero in crafting tasks, and no acknowledgement of XP for making an item.

Every task, every single one, should earn at least some XP, even if that baseline default is one XP (or perhaps 5).

No matter how repetitive, no task should result in zero XP, especially with the costs involved, and considering just how much of a grind this new system will become otherwise.

Even players taking an Unbound Shard to a machine and applying it should still get at least 1 XP. Tasks are not being properly recognized in crafting, and let's not perpetuate this error from old CC.