Caster Staffs

[noinfo]

For a while it looked like the traditional caster staffs were getting a buff, not huge but a small one, both in random loot and in TF. (2 handeds in general there as well) however with the new loot and with GS this seems to have fallen by the wayside leaving us with the 2 single handed weapons again though this includes orbs.

While ideally I would like to see the caster staff as marginally more powerful, perhaps a better solution is to allow an off hand item to be equipped for any 2 handed item with only the physical effects of the main hand weapon (physical attacks etc) taking effect, but the passive ones continuing to work.

[Tlorrd]

While ideally I would like to see the caster staff as marginally more powerful, perhaps a better solution is to allow an off hand item to be equipped for any 2 handed item with only the physical effects of the main hand weapon (physical attacks etc) taking effect, but the passive ones continuing to work.

While I hate to be the one to point this out ... Really?? You want to wield a single handed weapon at the same time as a 2HW?? Really??

I agree with making caster staves nice, but please refer to my above statement.

[noinfo]

While I hate to be the one to point this out ... Really?? You want to wield a single handed weapon at the same time as a 2HW?? Really??

I agree with making caster staves nice, but please refer to my above statement.

As opposed to casters in movies? Really? Sorry not seeing the OP nature of this?

2 Handed weapon fighting has some advantages, 2 handed casters makes 0 difference and only penalises them. When they looked like fixing it with TF weapons and their attempts originally with random loot, but now not so much. Really its not "wielding" as opposed to using.

[icekinslayer]

As opposed to casters in movies? Really? Sorry not seeing the OP nature of this?

2 Handed weapon fighting has some advantages, 2 handed casters makes 0 difference and only penalises them. When they looked like fixing it with TF weapons and their attempts originally with random loot, but now not so much. Really its not "wielding" as opposed to using.

There are a ton of good 1H weapons and orbs and staves and 2H weapons for casters...not sure what the issue is here....

[EllisDee37]

While ideally I would like to see the caster staff as marginally more powerful, perhaps a better solution is to allow an off hand item to be equipped for any 2 handed item with only the physical effects of the main hand weapon (physical attacks etc) taking effect, but the passive ones continuing to work.

Better would be to allow equipping a quarterstaff + orb at the same time, and as the trade-off, either you can't melee attack at all, or maybe melee attack at -50% speed so you could still break boxes.

[icekinslayer]

Better would be to allow equipping a quarterstaff + orb at the same time, and as the trade-off, either you can't melee attack at all, or maybe melee attack at -50% speed so you could still break boxes.

...but caster staves already have more effects on them than 1H weapons and orbs to make up for the fact that it takes 2Hands to use it...instead of asking for more power creep, we should just leave it as is...

[janave]

Just put back thaumaturgy into randgen, and maybe every 1d3 update when devs add a qstaff for melee, include a spell casting version of it too.

also 'DUH

[noinfo]

...but caster staves already have more effects on them than 1H weapons and orbs to make up for the fact that it takes 2Hands to use it...instead of asking for more power creep, we should just leave it as is...

Have I missed something since the new update?

Not seeing any of the effects like thaugmaturgy (not that I used those) and GS crafting is still the same 1 or 2 handed.

It seems that the devs have gone back to the standardised method of treating 2 weapons the same.

[noinfo]

Better would be to allow equipping a quarterstaff + orb at the same time, and as the trade-off, either you can't melee attack at all, or maybe melee attack at -50% speed so you could still break boxes.

Yep this would do.

[dunklezhan]

As opposed to casters in movies? Really? Sorry not seeing the OP nature of this?

Gandalf. 'nuff said.

However, I dont' think its the answer in DDO/DnD. The answer in DDO/DnD is to make caster staves more awesome.

For example, give them a chance of proccing an 'orb slot'.

[Wizza]

Can't they just make good staffs? With double Spell powers, Spell crits, maybe Universal Spell critical damage? Maybe with Legendary Arcane Augmentation?

Just maybe.

[Angelic-council]

For a while it looked like the traditional caster staffs were getting a buff, not huge but a small one, both in random loot and in TF. (2 handeds in general there as well) however with the new loot and with GS this seems to have fallen by the wayside leaving us with the 2 single handed weapons again though this includes orbs.

While ideally I would like to see the caster staff as marginally more powerful, perhaps a better solution is to allow an off hand item to be equipped for any 2 handed item with only the physical effects of the main hand weapon (physical attacks etc) taking effect, but the passive ones continuing to work.

Staves in DnD are usually treated as "focus" caster weapon. That's why it specialized in pure DC or pure damage casting, sometimes both. So, I agree that there has to be powerful 1 handed caster weapon. But in the reality of MMO, 2 different weapons are much stronger than 1 weapon that is in general easy to acquire (less work). So how we balance that.. I believe it can be done by giving a staff different flavor. So that people might want to get staff, but also scepter/orb.

What if 2 weapons gave you: 210 spell power/23% critical chance/8 DC/60SP back on hit (1 min CD). While staff would have: 180 spell power/20% critical chance/8DC/+5 spell power boost on magic cast (stack 10 times)/stacking +2 spell pen or augmentation. Something like that. Not nessecerely the same. But as you can see, staff would have less critical while it's useful in a long run.

Edit: I just don't think staff should be exceptionally powerful, but not too weak. Many characters from DnD world use staff. Some even enchant their life force to make it stronger. So it doesn't make sense that staffs are in bad comparision with 2 wielding wep. It should be as close it can be, with 1 dominating another in different aspects.

[Angelic-council]

deleted.

[Riddle_of_Steel]

I haven't used a staff since they put spell power in the game. Most casters have 2 things they do well, maybe it's Necro-Ice or Fire-Acid .. whatever.

There isn't one single solitary staff I have found that is even capable of equalling 2 dedicated caster sticks (and that's even ignoring Augments). If they want casters using staves then they really do need to make it so that the staff is at least as powerful as 2 sticks OR provides a benefit that is highly desirable and far more common on the staff, perhaps even exclusive to them.

For example IF the staff could be equipped with an orb at the same time THEN staves become instantly more attractive. My guess is they are happy seeing all these dual wielding wizards wandering around though because in all honesty since the introduction of spell power staves have been getting shafted more and more each year.

[noinfo]

Another option would be having Magical Training give addional benefits with staffs similar to how PA provides double effect and you get strength and a half

Exact values would be determined but the idea would be to make them the most powerful single focus item at the cost of diversity

so could be that while having a staff equipped you receive double the implement bomus, +1 to dc per x number of levels (small bonus here) +1 to spell pen per x number of levels (small bonus here) +2% or something to crit then +1% per every 2 epic levels or something.

[Wightscion]

...Most casters have 2 things they do well, maybe it's Necro-Ice or Fire-Acid .. whatever.

There isn't one single solitary staff I have found that is even capable of equalling 2 dedicated caster sticks (and that's even ignoring Augments). If they want casters using staves then they really do need to make it so that the staff is at least as powerful as 2 sticks OR provides a benefit that is highly desirable and far more common on the staff, perhaps even exclusive to them.

This is really the heart of the matter. They need to make staffs, in some way, capable of exceeding--slightly--the power of dual wielding two caster sticks.

This can be done as some pointed out, by being able to wield an orb in the off hand with the staff

This can also be done probably, as another poster pointed out by adding thaumaturgy back to the loot tables, and once a staff has this tag, it can then gen some of the more attractive -new- caster abilities that are not on other items (like, say, insightful combustion).

Maybe there is some third option out there we have not thought of yet, but the point Riddle of Steel makes is the crux.

[ssternlight]

This is really the heart of the matter. They need to make staffs, in some way, capable of exceeding--slightly--the power of dual wielding two caster sticks.

This can be done as some pointed out, by being able to wield an orb in the off hand with the staff

This can also be done probably, as another poster pointed out by adding thaumaturgy back to the loot tables, and once a staff has this tag, it can then gen some of the more attractive -new- caster abilities that are not on other items (like, say, insightful combustion).

Maybe there is some third option out there we have not thought of yet, but the point Riddle of Steel makes is the crux.

Another idea:

Magecrafting (constructing/deconstructing) two sticks, augments, etc.. into one staff and vice versa. That way you're not limited by any one point of view/feature set. Features can increase/cap,by level to prevent things getting out of hand or there can be a formula for an overall power/feature limit that can be increased by a revised magister tree.

[IronClan]

They best way to fix this was always the same: Caster staffs, one handed weapon with 1d4 base dice, and some flavor text about being light weight and less balanced for combat and more suitable for casting spells. Use the scroll animation for attacking so it even looks unwieldy.

Just going to ignore people who don't get why caster staffs need to be treated differently than a melee Two hander (hint a Melee Two handed weapon actually gains a benefit that compensates for only having half the affixes of two weapons or weapon+ shield, it gets 1.5 damage mod and has higher base dice than one handed weapons, a caster Two handed weapon however gives NO benefit and costs you at least a red slot a spell power and a lore, probably it costs you more, now scoot off to wiki and find out stuff geez)

As for why...


Because of reasons.



Known as fantasy archetypes



Which are slightly important.

[Angelic-council]

This is really the heart of the matter. They need to make staffs, in some way, capable of exceeding--slightly--the power of dual wielding two caster sticks.

This can be done as some pointed out, by being able to wield an orb in the off hand with the staff

This can also be done probably, as another poster pointed out by adding thaumaturgy back to the loot tables, and once a staff has this tag, it can then gen some of the more attractive -new- caster abilities that are not on other items (like, say, insightful combustion).

Maybe there is some third option out there we have not thought of yet, but the point Riddle of Steel makes is the crux.

Anyone can come up with those power up ideas, but you missing the point. In the world of design, and knowing turbine. This will not going to happen. Yes, staff should be unique weapon, but not something that will ruin the value of 2 different weapon types. We simply need to come up with the concept and say, 2 scepters should offer this' and staff should offer that. Then we can work our way from there. People should have a choice in this game. In DDO, you can easily acquire any staff, but 2 dagger or scepters would require time. So, should staff really be that powerful?. I would love to hear stat break down from people who think staff should be very powerful. Not that I disagree, but it seem like this idea is just an idea.

[RapkintheRanger]

While I hate to be the one to point this out ... Really?? You want to wield a single handed weapon at the same time as a 2HW?? Really??

I agree with making caster staves nice, but please refer to my above statement.

Maybe Yalthoon can hook you up with a third arm?