Randomized Loot: Look Two

[NoWorries]

Randomized loot is a bit further along than with the last Lammania preview.

-New scaling effects should be dropping in all slots, and the majority of that should be the correct effects (some are probably still missing)

-Weapon +W bonuses are automatically applied at different minimum levels and go higher than before. Note - these no longer have an effect description to go along with them so you will not see Paragon/Epic etc. There will just be a +W bonus applied and listed in the damage section:

• Min level 10 = +0.5W
• Min Level 20 = +1.0W
• Min Level 24 = +2.0W
• Min Level 28 = +3.0W

-Clarification - I've seen a lot of mention of players thinking that only one level of an effect will drop at Minimum level. Most effects come in a range of power for any given minimum level. Example - a min level 20 item could come with Strength +7, +8, or +9.


Some things still not working:

-Different levels of Vorpal are not dropping, only the base one. - fixed in latest update
-Likely some +0 insightful bonuses dropping in the first couple levels of loot
-Lucky loot does not have different border colors yet - fixed in latest update
-Scaling version of Spellcraft does not exist yet and therefore doesn't drop in random loot currently
-Effects aren't restricted by type yet, so you will see things such as both melee and ranged alacrity show up on the same item -fixed in latest update
-Healing/repair amp not currently scaling



Other things of note:

-Cursed items do not drop. Given the power of items it doesn't really seem necessary, but it is a discussion that can be had. I will say that if we started dropping them again, they would stack properly this time around - ex. If you had two different cursed items that lowered intelligence, they would both actually lower intelligence instead of just one.

-Once the lucky loot icons are in, do players want the text saying it is masterful craftsmanship/etc. or is just the border change enough (Overall I'm trying to minimize the effect info to make it easier/quicker to look at)? Also Luckier loot does not change the bind status, all random weapons/armor/equipment at this time are unbound.

-Now that minimum level is tied to the level of the quest, I have been thinking about having only the enhancement effect increase the +value of the item, and no longer having the enhancement bonus listed under effects. This would mean a +11 weapon would have a +11 Enhancement bonus which would apply to the damage as you would expect. Looking for thoughts on this. If this were to happen and if lucky loot doesn't add to the listing then only the actual effects granted by the item would be shown.

-There has been some discussion on if random loot should only drop with a minimum level of the quest or a range of the level of the quest -1 or -2. Looking for more thoughts on this.



And as always, looking for any feedback/issues as players get in and find random loot throughout the Lammania preview.

[EllisDee37]

Shorter descriptions are better. I personally don't need a whole paragraph, or even a single line, explaining to me that the +11 Enhancement Bonus on my sword adds +11 attack and damage.

I guess I don't need the Paragon/Epic/etc.. descriptions, but I find them useful. With epic destinies, ship buffs, enhancements, etc.. there are many times when it's not obvious exactly how much +[W] I'm getting from the weapon itself compared to other sources. The current in-game descriptions are nice for that.

I think I'd kind of like Masterful description to stay. I don't trust colored borders, and some people are colorblind. Feel free to shorten it up to the extreme if you like. Something like: "Masterful Craftsmanship: This item is more powerful than normal."

Regarding the level of random loot in quests, I still think it's weird that if you run with ship buffs (+2 loot bonus?) you can't use anything you pull until you take a couple more levels. I guess a range of -2 to +0 loot compared to quest level (plus loot bonuses) could solve that.

[UurlockYgmeov]

I like. Keep going.

Lucky - yes would like more information - but could push the 'Lucky' information in two ways - different colored text (I know this would be new technology) or indicated by a symbol on the specific effect that is lucky. Could also put the 'Lucky' text at the end/bottom - so wouldn't clutter. Newspaper article writing - pyramid shape (put the beef first, and expand later). Allows for quick skim and full disclosure later. Could Also change the background of the icon or the text (some new tech maybe).

Cursed. Yes. bring it on! It gives interest and something to talk about. 'pulled x today and it was the ultimate monk item -- if only it wasn't cursed.'

Enhancement listing - KISS - so the question is does having more information help the player or not? How important is this information if is valuable?

• SO if valuable and important: yes, keep it and keep it prominent (higher , earlier)
• if valuable or important but not both: yes, but keep it later, lower and not so prominent
• if neither - then don't include it.

[Qhualor]

Other things of note:

-Cursed items do not drop. Given the power of items it doesn't really seem necessary, but it is a discussion that can be had. I will say that if we started dropping them again, they would stack properly this time around - ex. If you had two different cursed items that lowered intelligence, they would both actually lower intelligence instead of just one.

-Once the lucky loot icons are in, do players want the text saying it is masterful craftsmanship/etc. or is just the border change enough (Overall I'm trying to minimize the effect info to make it easier/quicker to look at)? Also Luckier loot does not change the bind status, all random weapons/armor/equipment at this time are unbound.

-Now that minimum level is tied to the level of the quest, I have been thinking about having only the enhancement effect increase the +value of the item, and no longer having the enhancement bonus listed under effects. This would mean a +11 weapon would have a +11 Enhancement bonus which would apply to the damage as you would expect. Looking for thoughts on this. If this were to happen and if lucky loot doesn't add to the listing then only the actual effects granted by the item would be shown.

-There has been some discussion on if random loot should only drop with a minimum level of the quest or a range of the level of the quest -1 or -2. Looking for more thoughts on this.



And as always, looking for any feedback/issues as players get in and find random loot throughout the Lammania preview.

ive always hated cursed items. I never wore any of them and just vendored them off. please do not let them come back.

if we can have both text and border highlights it would be great. if not, than at least the border highlight.

this is fine, but the more information we have the better. some of us aren't very good with figuring out DDO math and where all the effects come from.

I still like loot dropping for the minimum level of the quest. I don't have a well thought out reason. I just prefer it that way. I wont care really either way.

[Mithis]

I do not object to the idea of cursed items dropping but I feel it could wait for a patch if dev time is a potential problem.

I would also like to see 'lucky' text stay for same reasons as EllisDee.

On the enhancement text...I vote vote keeping it. I know most players don't need the additional description but I think it is useful for a new player.

Last, I vote for a range on the loot. Maybe -2 to +1??

[FranOhmsford]

ive always hated cursed items. I never wore any of them and just vendored them off. please do not let them come back.

Gotta second this.

[maddong]

Regarding the strength item example. Currently I think it is something like +6 ML 20, +7 ML 21, +8 ML 24, +9 ML 26, +10 ML 28, +11 ML 30 (wondrous ML 28). I'm probably off on those but regardless making ML 20 up to +9 is a lot of inflation.
I would do something like:
ML 20 +7
ML 22 +8
ML 24 +9
ML 26 +10
ML 28 +11
ML 30 +12
ML 31 (masterful craft ML 30) +13
ML 32 (wondrous item ML 30) +14
For a little less stat inflation in the early epics and making the high stat bonuses more rare on random items.

I'm ok with removing cursed items and just keeping masterful craftsmanship/wondrous item. I'd like them in the text in case I forget what the border color means.

I'm ok with removing the enhancement bonus from text to decrease the spam.

Before the update 19 ghost baning of the loot people had to run higher level of quests to get their loot (I think it was quest level -3 because people used to need bonus loot weekends to get the top level loot they needed). That made the equipment you needed more rare and I think was better for the economy. I would stagger the loot level a little.
Level (chest level = quest level):
1-8 = loot level = chest level
9-16 = level minus one (level 15 loot in a 16 chest)
17-24 = level minus two (level 22 loot in an 24 chest)
25+ = level minus three (level 30 loot in a 33 chest)
That would mean that a level 33 quest (legendary elite) would get you level 30 loot without any bonuses.
A level 30 quest with a +2 jewel and + 1 guild boost would also drop level 30 loot.
That will make loot boosts useful again (as opposed to now when you announce +2 loot bonus and no one cares... people used to play specifically for the loot boosts but not since Update 19).

[FranOhmsford]

-Clarification - I've seen a lot of mention of players thinking that only one level of an effect will drop at Minimum level. Most effects come in a range of power for any given minimum level. Example - a min level 20 item could come with Strength +7, +8, or +9.

So can we get some sort of idea for those of us who can't get on Lamannia of what loot is going to look like post Update 29 vs pre Update 29?

Example:

Current Clean +6 Strength item = Min Lvl 11 {9 if Masterful Craftmanship}
Will future Min Lvl items with Strength on them be +6 Str or will they be more like +4 Str because of the other effects and the fact that we seem to be completely losing Clean items?

Basically - Will say a +4 Str Ring of +7 Disable Device be dropping a that level or will we be getting a +6 Str of +10 or 11 Disable Device?


Will old Clean items become uber AH and Banked items held on to for years or will they become utter vendor trash? {I'm sorry but I can't see a middle ground?}.

[Krelar]

-Once the lucky loot icons are in, do players want the text saying it is masterful craftsmanship/etc. or is just the border change enough (Overall I'm trying to minimize the effect info to make it easier/quicker to look at)? Also Luckier loot does not change the bind status, all random weapons/armor/equipment at this time are unbound.

How is lucky loot going to work on the auction house? Currently the auction house checks the name of the item, will this show up as a third effect in the name somehow or do we have to scroll through every item of that level looking for them? (Are there any plans to someday rework the AH so that it searches the effects rather than the name?)

[Milikki]

Are you going to fix the tables for items like vorpal, paralyzing so they can be had below level 20 again? As is now, everything saves except on a 1 making those effects instant vendor trash.

[RobbinB]

[/LIST]
-Clarification - I've seen a lot of mention of players thinking that only one level of an effect will drop at Minimum level. Most effects come in a range of power for any given minimum level. Example - a min level 20 item could come with Strength +7, +8, or +9.

This is not a trivial point. As another poster brings up, +7 Str for ML 20 is OK, but +9 is over-the-top power-creepy.

But if the +8 and +9 are set up as "lucky" rolls, where their probability is not equal to the +7, that could work. Maybe 90% chance of +7, 7.5% chance of +8, and 2.5% chance of +9?

This also helps fend of the potential ridulous +9 str/+max ins str ML 20 item. Yes, this item would be possible, but very unlikely, as you would need to have str come up for both attributes AND hit two separate 2.5% rolls (for my suggestion), which isn't very likely.

So, to sum up, if the +7 to +9 in your proposed loot system are of equal probability, I think the system is a power-creep disaster. If you weight the probabilities appropriately, then it could work nicely. So which is the plan?

EDIT: for ML 20, based on existing game, I would believe +6 to +9 range makes more sense with probability of 60/35/4/1 for +6/+7/+8/+9. Even that is probably excessive power-creep.

[SableShadow]

If you weight the probabilities appropriately, then it could work nicely.

I would have a care here; given enough time, there will be a lot of this out there ... you're just delaying, not mitigating.

[RD2play]

Randomized loot is a bit further along than with the last Lammania preview.

-New scaling effects should be dropping in all slots, and the majority of that should be the correct effects (some are probably still missing)

-Weapon +W bonuses are automatically applied at different minimum levels and go higher than before. Note - these no longer have an effect description to go along with them so you will not see Paragon/Epic etc. There will just be a +W bonus applied and listed in the damage section:

• Min level 10 = +0.5W
• Min Level 20 = +1.0W
• Min Level 24 = +2.0W
• Min Level 28 = +3.0W

This is going to have to be listed for reasons already provided, my vote goes to Paragon, Epic, Epic Paragon, Legendary

-Clarification - I've seen a lot of mention of players thinking that only one level of an effect will drop at Minimum level. Most effects come in a range of power for any given minimum level. Example - a min level 20 item could come with Strength +7, +8, or +9.

these values are a bit high compared to life, are you going to provide similar bonuses to s/s/s items in a future pass? else I would say 6/7/8 would be as high as I would go for ml20 and then still, you are pushing it.

Some things still not working:

-Different levels of Vorpal are not dropping, only the base one.
-Likely some +0 insightful bonuses dropping in the first couple levels of loot
-Lucky loot does not have different border colors yet
-Scaling version of Spellcraft does not exist yet and therefore doesn't drop in random loot currently
-Effects aren't restricted by type yet, so you will see things such as both melee and ranged alacrity show up on the same item
-Healing/repair amp not currently scaling

Other things of note:

-Cursed items do not drop. Given the power of items it doesn't really seem necessary, but it is a discussion that can be had. I will say that if we started dropping them again, they would stack properly this time around - ex. If you had two different cursed items that lowered intelligence, they would both actually lower intelligence instead of just one.

They are great flavour but I wont miss them if they are gone.

-Once the lucky loot icons are in, do players want the text saying it is masterful craftsmanship/etc. or is just the border change enough (Overall I'm trying to minimize the effect info to make it easier/quicker to look at)? Also Luckier loot does not change the bind status, all random weapons/armor/equipment at this time are unbound.

Different border would be enough IMO, the masterful effect was nice when it actually affected the ML of the item but otherwise I see no reason for it to be listed. Although I could see Cursed/Masterful relate to the general power vs ml of an item so a Lucky roll would give you masterful(so you know the values are better), and an unlucky roll gives cursed. So not curse would not be giving any negative stats, it will just be an indication that this item could be considered trash as other items with the same tier effects exist with a lower ML.

-Now that minimum level is tied to the level of the quest, I have been thinking about having only the enhancement effect increase the +value of the item, and no longer having the enhancement bonus listed under effects. This would mean a +11 weapon would have a +11 Enhancement bonus which would apply to the damage as you would expect. Looking for thoughts on this. If this were to happen and if lucky loot doesn't add to the listing then only the actual effects granted by the item would be shown.

No this should stay listed! Also just like effects I think a ML item should be able to drop with ML-1, ML or ML+1 enhancement bonus.

-There has been some discussion on if random loot should only drop with a minimum level of the quest or a range of the level of the quest -1 or -2. Looking for more thoughts on this.

I think a range would be best, people have already stated how they dislike pulling loot they cannot directly use. I myself don't really have a problem with this. But you will have to consider loot weekend, ship buffs and gems. These easily put a chest well above the level of the quest and thus with a static ML would always give out "too high ML'" loots.

And as always, looking for any feedback/issues as players get in and find random loot throughout the Lammania preview.

Glad to be of service

[Systern]

Randomized loot is a bit further along than with the last Lammania preview.
...snip...

-Cursed items do not drop. Given the power of items it doesn't really seem necessary, but it is a discussion that can be had. I will say that if we started dropping them again, they would stack properly this time around - ex. If you had two different cursed items that lowered intelligence, they would both actually lower intelligence instead of just one.

Cursed and Master/Wonderful Craftsmanship were the only loot that I looked at. When the system first launches, it'll be new and shiny and we'll look at everything. In 6 months, we'll go back to being platcapped and consider all this vendor trash once again and these variations keep it interesting.

-Once the lucky loot icons are in, do players want the text saying it is masterful craftsmanship/etc. or is just the border change enough (Overall I'm trying to minimize the effect info to make it easier/quicker to look at)? Also Luckier loot does not change the bind status, all random weapons/armor/equipment at this time are unbound.

A quick one liner is nice. Just numbers can easily be overlooked. I recently pointed out to a friend that's been playing since beta that Dueling Schlager actually has an increased die-step... Also, its nice to clarify that your "Exceptional Skill: farting +2" is actually an insight typed bonus.

-Now that minimum level is tied to the level of the quest, I have been thinking about having only the enhancement effect increase the +value of the item, and no longer having the enhancement bonus listed under effects. This would mean a +11 weapon would have a +11 Enhancement bonus which would apply to the damage as you would expect. Looking for thoughts on this. If this were to happen and if lucky loot doesn't add to the listing then only the actual effects granted by the item would be shown.

If you get rid of the item's "potential" number, won't that completely destroy cannith crafting until/if it gets its update?

-There has been some discussion on if random loot should only drop with a minimum level of the quest or a range of the level of the quest -1 or -2. Looking for more thoughts on this.

I'd prefer the range. With ship buff +1 loot, and the +2 loot weekend etc... I get bored/confused on never being able to find something I can use right now, and don't want to think "Will this be good in 2 days when I level?" and either leave it or sell it immediately. It also begs the question "Wait, I'm doing this at level and roflstomping it... how did these kobolds manage to kill the guy with better loot than I'm wearing now to keep in this chest?" I want to grow into named gear, and possibly find a random thing to use now.

[maddong]

This is not a trivial point. As another poster brings up, +7 Str for ML 20 is OK, but +9 is over-the-top power-creepy.

But if the +8 and +9 are set up as "lucky" rolls, where their probability is not equal to the +7, that could work. Maybe 90% chance of +7, 7.5% chance of +8, and 2.5% chance of +9?

This also helps fend of the potential ridulous +9 str/+max ins str ML 20 item. Yes, this item would be possible, but very unlikely, as you would need to have str come up for both attributes AND hit two separate 2.5% rolls (for my suggestion), which isn't very likely.

So, to sum up, if the +7 to +9 in your proposed loot system are of equal probability, I think the system is a power-creep disaster. If you weight the probabilities appropriately, then it could work nicely. So which is the plan?

EDIT: for ML 20, based on existing game, I would believe +6 to +9 range makes more sense with probability of 60/35/4/1 for +6/+7/+8/+9. Even that is probably excessive power-creep.

I think the lucky roll should be the "wondrous item" not an additional stat range.
If +9 stat items drop as ML 20 without wondrous item then +7/8 is just vendor trash and +9 will eventually be the new normal with a +11 wondrous item ML20 item not far behind.

So I'd either keep ML20 items at +6 or increase them to +7.

Also bring back convalescent bracers of parrying....

[sirgog]

On curses:

-1 stat for -2 ML isn't very impactful. It's strong, but not very noticeable.

I'd rather see a more noticeable curse with more power.

Take the time on these and get them right. Cursed items should be polarizing, and it's perfectly fine if an item rolls that one player looks at and says "oh wow, that's amazing" while a different player looks at the same item and says "trash tier".




On min levels:

Can we have an uneven distribution? Perhaps 65% of drops are quest level, 30% are QL-1, 4% are QL-2, 1% QL-3.

[DarkSable]

There has been some discussion on if random loot should only drop with a minimum level of the quest or a range of the level of the quest -1 or -2. Looking for more thoughts on this.

If it drops with the minimum level of the quest, then there's absolutely no benefit in challenging myself to do an at-level quest on elite, because it's just giving me items that I can't use yet, but that when I can use them, are no better than what I get breezing through an at level quest on normal.

I would prefer to have -2 of the quest level, or if it's a range, have a decent spread. The other thing that would make me absolutely ecstatic is have the items be generated at the ML of the quest, but with a much higher chance of having -1 / -2 minimum level. (Kind of like an inverse lucky, that's more common and less powerful than lucky.)

Seriously, this is a change that would make a LOT of players happy. We used to have a ton of very nice TR gear that was low or no minimum level. It wasn't impacting the balance of the game, it just made the early levels (some of the most painful and wonky) of a TR smoother. These items got removed or had a "normal" minimum level applied to them with the first random loot pass, making entire chains (The flavorful and fun sharn syndicate, for example), pointless to own or run, because of negligible xp and no useful loot. I would really, really like to see something implemented to make up for that, since the TR grind is one of the cooler appeals of this game.

Indicated by a symbol on the specific effect that is lucky.

This. I want to see which enchantment is the bonus one. I would also really appreciate being able to search for lucky items specifically in the AH... but really, that has to wait until Dev time can go to an AH update... which will hopefully come soon, because it would go a long way towards jumpstarting the games' economy again. Regardless, as long as there's a quick way to 1) see that the item has a lucky enchantment (even just lucky in its name) and 2) notice them while searching through chest loot or the AH (a different color border and lucky in the name would fix that), we'd be good.

[slarden]

- +21 to UMD seems excessive to me, but it doesn't bother me if it stays either
- when showing items to people the effects do not display properly, but they do for me (shows type of bonus but not # to others)
- parrying item had +6 bonus to AC and +12 bonus to saves - quite a jump from what existing items have

Overall, the loot is much more interesting.

[Silverleafeon]

-Weapon +W bonuses are automatically applied at different minimum levels and go higher than before. Note - these no longer have an effect description to go along with them so you will not see Paragon/Epic etc. There will just be a +W bonus applied and listed in the damage section:

• Min level 10 = +0.5W
• Min Level 20 = +1.0W
• Min Level 24 = +2.0W
• Min Level 28 = +3.0W

Given a min level 32 (lucky loot) would that become +4.0W ?
I don't need a classification to appreciate a +X W

Other things of note:

-Cursed items do not drop. Given the power of items it doesn't really seem necessary, but it is a discussion that can be had. I will say that if we started dropping them again, they would stack properly this time around - ex. If you had two different cursed items that lowered intelligence, they would both actually lower intelligence instead of just one.

-Once the lucky loot icons are in, do players want the text saying it is masterful craftsmanship/etc. or is just the border change enough (Overall I'm trying to minimize the effect info to make it easier/quicker to look at)? Also Luckier loot does not change the bind status, all random weapons/armor/equipment at this time are unbound.

I would prefer to reclassify Mastercraftmanship and Cursed into Lucky I, Lucky II, Lucky III, etc loot.

I have no problems with cards being color coded, but would like to use the auction house to search for lucky loot somehow.

I have yet to find a cursed item that I am really admiring and using, so frankly its a waste of coding.
Would prefer time spent on possible Lucky Boost potions (won in silver / gold rolls / ddo store / rare drop).
Would prefer various forms of lucky loot including masterful craftsmanship.

-Now that minimum level is tied to the level of the quest, I have been thinking about having only the enhancement effect increase the +value of the item, and no longer having the enhancement bonus listed under effects. This would mean a +11 weapon would have a +11 Enhancement bonus which would apply to the damage as you would expect. Looking for thoughts on this. If this were to happen and if lucky loot doesn't add to the listing then only the actual effects granted by the item would be shown.

That seem fine to me.

-There has been some discussion on if random loot should only drop with a minimum level of the quest or a range of the level of the quest -1 or -2. Looking for more thoughts on this.

As before, I remain opposed to a range of levels and would prefer to only drop min level of the quest. As far as I can remember moving towards ransacking used to affect min levels anyway, would prefer that not happen till ransack warning appears. However if certain things only drop on odd or even numbers for some strange reason, then a range of 0 to -1 would be appropriate.

If a level range is chosen, I would prefer it to be as small as possible.

And as always, looking for any feedback/issues as players get in and find random loot throughout the Lammania preview.

Thanks for listening.

[Propane]

Hello!

Are drops going to have a chance to have a special base material (flame touched, cold iron, silver, etc...)?
Are drops gong to have a chance to have both special base material and a slot?

(these make wonderful crafting blanks - assuming we will still need them).

I am excited to see the Base Damaged increased at higher levels, good foreshadowing for the upcoming crafting update - more possible usable high end crafted gear!

TIA-

Propane