The Balance Change post

[alancarp]

comment removed - still checking data.

[hunzi2010]

So I am still at work for another 7 hours, and haven't uploaded the patch.

Any feedback on how my puer human lvl 28 hand wrap monk is going to play? and my bladeforge pure pally lvl 28 s&b is going to play? and my drow wiz lvl 28 is going to play?
any info would be good.
thanks guys

[EllisDee37]

It's actually worse than that, now that I looked a little harder: I have both the Improved Crit AND the Overwhelming Crit feats, and it seems that NEITHER is stacking with Holy Sword... so I literally have 2 useless feats.

Improved Crit still stacks with Holy Sword. It just no longer doubles Holy Sword.

Any feedback on how my puer human lvl 28 hand wrap monk is going to play?

Worse. You will lose the melee power from the TWF feats, and Improved Crit: Bludgeon no longer gives you a 19-20x2 profile with unarmed. Neither do wraps with Impact. ALL unarmed monks are currently stuck with 20x2.

and my bladeforge pure pally lvl 28 s&b is going to play?

Worse. You lose a noticeable amount of MRR such that spells and energy traps will hurt more. Your shield bashes will do less dps because holy sword no longer applies to shields. On the plus side, a nice quality of life improvement is that you only need to cast Holy Sword once. It persists even if you switch weapons, automatically applying to whatever is equipped in your main hand. (No more multiple castings if you use more than one weapon.)

and my drow wiz lvl 28 is going to play?

Same as it ever was.

[alancarp]

Improved Crit still stacks with Holy Sword. It just no longer doubles Holy Sword....

I have removed my comment - still checking the data... and it's now the overwhelming crit I'm concerned with. I'm aware of the IC effect (or lack thereof).

> Appears that OC is working as before.

[hunzi2010]

Thanks Man for your help.
So my monk is dust. I take it if IC doesn't work with my wraps, then overwhelming crit is also not going to work.
I now can only crit on a 20. Well that totally sucks balls. and no melee power.....
12, 15, 8, 13, 11, 9, 136. wow im definitely going to get smashed by mobs in the face now.

[Kompera_Oberon]

and my drow wiz lvl 28 is going to play?

EllisDee covered the other two and gets a partial for the third. Here's the other part: If your Wizard spent Enhancements and augment slots on negating ASF for heavy (or heavier than robes really) armor you're going to lose a whole lot of PRR since the PRR contribution from armor is now based on your BAB*. (I wonder if Tenser's will boost the armor PRR while it is active?) And you'll lose all of the MRR from the armor, since it went away altogether.


* Although I know that logic isn't a necessary part of game design a friend pointed out to me today how silly it is to base the protective quality of armor on how well you can swing a sword.

[Geekhann]

I have an archer build that just hit 20. He is 9 ranger/6 monk/5 rogue. Wisdom high for 10k. 9 ranger for past life and empower healing. 6 monk for 10k. Tier 5's are in mechanic. Uses int for damage from harper. 2% standing doubleshot (from ship buff).

I challenge anyone to describe an actual character that was made more dysfunctional by this patch than mine.

Mind you, i'm not complaining, or demanding a heart or anything.

LMFAO

I have a 8 ranger/6 monk/6 rogue....

They wanted to ecourage ppl to go pure ranger, they didnt want 6 monk lvls to be a must for monkchers I guess. They could have just removed the dobleshot penalty after manyshot and leave it after 10k stars. Instead they have gimped what was already the gimpiest playstyle in ddo. I m sure that a lvl 6 xbow user w/o rapid reload outpreforms our archers lol. And i did several straight monkcher lives, was happy with new stalker stuff and was really having fun with my archer, had a lot of thinkgs to click, lots of cooldowns to monitor.... It was fun, but now its simply unplayable. I have other legend builds like a Pally, twf assassin, Barbarian, I dont mind the nerfs there, I understand some of it. But to gimp archers like this is insane.

[elvesunited]

Heavy armor / Tower Shield Warlock Tank: BUILD CONCEPT DESTRUCTION. My heavy armor and almost all tower shields are now useless to this guy. The fighter splash is a waste as 90% of the reason for taking it just went away. It will be expensive to make this toon viable again with medium armor and a low ASF shield. Anyone of a spare lesser heart of wood +2?

Winter Wolf Druid: BROKEN. I've got a winter wolf druid with improved critical and testing on the training dummy was only getting critical hits on 19 or 20. As if he didn't have the improved critical feat at all.

Armored non-undead archmage Wizard: MUCH SQUISHIER. Granted 9 base attack bonus has something to do with it. But ouch. He lost over half his damage mitigation.

Pure Swashbuckler Throwing Bard: CONFUSING. In testing with throwing axe confirmed that critical on 15-20 even though description says 16-20. Blow by Blow sonic damage still doesn't work with throwing weapons.

ranger 11 / monk 6 / favored 3 Monkcher: JURY OUT. So many changes. The elemental/force damage may offset the loss of damage through manyshot and thousand stars. The DC arrows are better DC but still far short of useful in Epic Elite. ( Maybe if someone dedicated a AA build to DC maxing but that someone isn't me )

[unbongwah]

Winter Wolf Druid: BROKEN. I've got a winter wolf druid with improved critical and testing on the training dummy was only getting critical hits on 19 or 20. As if he didn't have the improved critical feat at all.

Disappointing, but considering handwraps are bugged, not too surprised animal forms are too. Not looking forward to getting my wolf druid to cap so I can ER->HTR again...

Armored non-undead archmage Wizard: MUCH SQUISHIER. Granted 9 base attack bonus has something to do with it. But ouch. He lost over half his damage mitigation.

Pretty much anybody looking to max their PRR (esp. arcane casters) will need to keep a stack of Div Power clickies handy (or cast Tensers).

Pure Swashbuckler Throwing Bard: CONFUSING. In testing with throwing axe confirmed that critical on 15-20 even though description says 16-20. Blow by Blow sonic damage still doesn't work with throwing weapons.

Sounds like display is bugged and Swashbuckler bugs with throwing weapons (like not getting +1 crit multiplier) still haven't been fixed.

ranger 11 / monk 6 / favored 3 Monkcher: JURY OUT. So many changes. The elemental/force damage may offset the loss of damage through manyshot and thousand stars. The DC arrows are better DC but still far short of useful in Epic Elite. ( Maybe if someone dedicated a AA build to DC maxing but that someone isn't me )

It's too bad there's no bow with Bewildering on it; would be a great way of making Paralyzing more useful.

[KoobTheProud]

It seems like the balance pass basically just involved beginning to bring critical effects more into balance. This is not a bad thing, however we would probably profit as a community if we could begin to agree on what we want out of the game systems in terms of balance and playability.

My primary issue at this point is that min/max builds are always going to be a governing influence on the content that is produced and then balanced over time. It's too easy to design something that exploits the strengths of 2 or more classes and that winds up broken in all but the highest difficulty content as a result. What concerns me is that these builds then become a target for content development since the devs don't want them just flying through content without difficulty. That makes normal builds very tough to manage in high difficulty content. An example of this is the ongoing balancing between evasion and heavy armor builds, with content that would challenge either strategy effectively snuffing the other one.

I'm kind of at the point where I'd be happy if the devs balanced content around pure classes with difficulties aimed at what the pure classes were intended to see as easy, moderate and hard difficulty. I'd be ok if exploiter builds were able to fly though that content, with the price of playing an exploiter build being loss of enjoyment in the overall play experience. The alternative seems to be for content to continuously get harder and harder for basic builds with the power gamers then asking for even higher difficulty levels, with a concurrent drain on dev resources to accommodate those demands.

We've got power creep all over the place and the game is very unforgiving for new players coming in as it is. Wouldn't it make sense to cap the difficulties on what the pure classes can accomplish, with appropriate grouping required for some non-elite content, as opposed to watching the power creep get to the point that nobody but the completionists can really play the game at the top end?

[RobbinB]

Uhmm, I think that is not a good idea for balancing the game, it's hard to survive in EE in some quest, some mob have a heavy damage in aoe spells, if mrr you have to look for boulds with evation and high reflex, this chage do it that the game lose variety of choice (IMOO), any want do it a melle dps to just get beaten.

And the feat...This is a garbage, you hava spend 4 feats for get 30 prr/mrr, may with 2 feat of 15 prr/merr each can be best option and universal, not only for fighters, you forget paladin tanks (same for tactical feat, a good idea but too many feats).

I'm not sure if I'm a fan of the armor/tactics feats, but given that the lower feats are not prereqs for the higher I would think the more valid question is whether 2 feats are worth 21 prr, or 3 feats are worth 27 prr/mrr. There's a logical inconsistency in saying fighters don't have enough feats to get everything they need and then be willing to spend a feat to get 3 prr/mrr when you likely already have reasonable amounts of prr/mrr through feats/enhances/equipment.

[Souless]

Greetings.

We've seen a lot of community feedback, both public and private, about our ongoing plans for balance. These are some changes we are considering to increase game balance.

As with any post that outlines power reductions (aka nerfs) I am sure there will be a lot of players looking for explanations and our thoughts and results on balance that led to these changes. I will be following up this post with more details that talk about why some of these changes are being implemented.

***

Holy Sword (Paladin)
This is now a spell that affects the paladin and buffs whatever melee weapon is being wielded in the main hand.
It no longer persists on your weapon but instead buffs the melee weapon you are holding in your main hand. (Yes, this buffs your two handed weapons.)
It no longer affects missile weapons.
It no longer can be used to buff off hand weapons or shields.
If you change weapons the spell will drop off the unequipped weapon and instead be applied to the newly equipped weapon.

Blood Strength (Barbarian Ravager)
The portion of this enhancement that heals the user when they kill an opponent now has a 1 second internal cooldown.

Critical Rage (Barbarian Ravager)
The bonus to critical threat range is now a competence bonus.

Two weapon fighting animations have been fixed so there is no longer a weird jump on the fourth animation. This has made the fourth attack slightly quicker.

Two Weapon Fighting no longer grants melee power.
Improved Two Weapon Fighting no longer grants melee power.
Greater Two Weapon Fighting no longer grants melee power.

Doubleshot values over 100% now have a chance of producing a third attack. The chance is equal to the amount the value exceeds 100. A doubleshot value of 130, for example, would always produce one extra shot and have a 30% chance to produce a third shot.

(Doublestrike will still cap at 100 for technical reasons.)

Repeating Crossbows and Doubleshot
Fixed a bug where Doubleshot was not being reduced for repeating crossbows. (Doubleshot chance is divided by 3 for repeating crossbows.)

Manyshot
This ability is being redesigned.
For the next 20 seconds you add your (base attack bonus * 4) to your Doubleshot and Ranged Power. This ability puts Ten Thousand Stars on a 30 second cooldown. Cooldown 2 minutes.
(This ability no longer gives a doubleshot penalty when activated.)

Ten Thousand Stars
This ability is being redesigned.
For the next 30 seconds you add your Wisdom ability score to your Ranged Power and you add your monk level * 5 to your Doubleshot. This ability puts Manyshot on a 30 second cooldown. Cooldown 1 minute.
(This ability no longer gives a doubleshot penalty when activated.)

Mechanical Reloader (Rogue Mechanic)
The alacrity for non-repeating crossbows is now 30%. (Was 40%)

Pulverizer (Legendary Dreadnought)
The bonus to critical threat range for bludgeoning weapons is now an Insight bonus.

Improved Critical
These feats now add a bonus to critical threat range based purely on weapon type.
* Adds +3 to critical threat range for falchion, kukri, rapier, and scimitar.
* Adds +2 to the critical threat range of bastard sword, dagger, great crossbow, greatsword, heavy crossbow, khopesh, light crossbow, long sword, repeating heavy crossbow, repeating light crossbow, short sword, and throwing dagger.
* Adds +1 to all other weapons.

Keen
This loot effect now add a bonus to critical threat range based purely on weapon type.
* Adds +3 to critical threat range for falchion, kukri, rapier, and scimitar.
* Adds +2 to the critical threat range of bastard sword, dagger, great crossbow, greatsword, heavy crossbow, khopesh, light crossbow, long sword, repeating heavy crossbow, repeating light crossbow, short sword, and throwing dagger.
* Adds +1 to all other weapons.

Armor Changes
The amount of Physical Resist Rating that armor provides has been changed.
* Heavy armor now increases Physical Resist Rating by (base attack bonus * 2) and no longer adds Magical Resist Rating.
* Medium armor now increases Physical Resist Rating by (base attack bonus * 1.5) and no longer adds Magical Resist Rating.
* Light Armor now increases Physical Resist Rating by (base attack bonus * 1) and no longer adds Magical Resist Rating.
Fixed a bug where players were getting Physical Resist Rating for armor with which they were not proficient.

(Note: The Physical Resist Rating and Magical Resist Rating offered by shields remain unchanged.)

As a result of dialing back armor, some fighter only feats that will boost their effectiveness with armor and add to tactical DCs will also be included.

Tactical Training
Requires Fighter Level 4
You gain +2 to the DC of all tactical feats.

Tactical Combatant
Requires Fighter Level 8
You gain +4 to the DC of all tactical feats.

Tactical Mastery
Requires Fighter Level 12
You gain +6 to the DC of all tactical feats.

Tactical Supremacy
Requires Fighter Level 16
You gain +8 to the DC of all tactical feats.

Notes: All tactical feats stack for a total of +20. The lower level feats are not prerequisites for the higher level feats so a higher level fighter could save a feat if he/she wanted to skip Tactical Training and forego the +2 but still have access to Tatical Supremacy.

Heavy Armor Training
Requires Fighter Level 2
You gain +3 Physical Resistance Rating and Magical Resistance Rating while wearing heavy armor.

Heavy Armor Combatant
Requires Fighter Level 6
You gain +6 Physical Resistance Rating and Magical Resistance Rating while wearing heavy armor.

Heavy Armor Master
Requires Fighter Level 10
You gain +9 Physical Resistance Rating and Magical Resistance Rating while wearing heavy armor.

Heavy Armor Champion
Requires Fighter Level 14
You gain +12 Physical Resistance Rating and Magical Resistance Rating while wearing heavy armor.

Notes: All Heavy Armor feats stack for a total of +30. The lower level feats are not prerequisites for the higher level feats so a higher level fighter could save a feat if he/she wanted to skip Heavy Armor Training and forego the +3 and still have access to Heavy Armor Champion.


Divine Grace (Paladin)
Divine Grace now provides a maximum bonus equal to 2 + (Paladin level x 3).

Eldritch Blast and other enhancements (Warlock)
The spellpower scaling for Eldritch Blast and several enhancements has been reduced.

Spellpower scaling of Warlock Abilities

Ability	Old	New
Eldritch Blast	150%	130%
Eldritch Blast Cone	130%	130%
Eldritch Blast Chain	110%	95%
Eldritch Blast Aura	150%	130%
Stricken (Souleater)	150%	125%
Consume (Souleater)	150%	125%
Eldritch Burst (Enlightened Spirit)	120%	100%
Spirit Blast (Enlightened Spirit)	120%	100%

I will be following up this post with some details on our thoughts on balance and design.

Sev~

Now I know I've said that I'm done posting here. However since you guys have updated the game I would like one final complete list of what you have done....

No comparisons, no doubletalk, Just a complete list of the everything in it's current state.

That way I can at least have the basis to reroll

The Bytcher~

[Souless]

Now I know I've said that I'm done posting here. However since you guys have updated the game I would like one final complete list of what you have done....

No comparisons, no doubletalk, Just a complete list of the everything in it's current state.

That way I can at least have the basis to reroll

The Bytcher~

NM.....I just read this list I guess at least u've done it already.

The Bytcher~

[zeonardo]

The unbalancing started back in U14 MotU with the introduction of EDs. Instead of letting toons gain power thru epic levels. what we faced the last four years, with each and every enhancement pass, was even more power creep. Making barb self healing *shakes head*. Nothing against Barbs. This were all strategic decisions by the devs. Now takign them back, after Pandoras Box is already open, what do they / you expect? That there is much rejoicing?

And take a close look at all the new quests since Shadowfell expansion. Epic Elite they are geared for the best of the best. And the best of the best are still complaining its too easy. What will change with the nerf? The best of the best will adapt and build their next FOTM build, going back on top and complaining DDO is too easy. And all other players will further fall behind in the power curve. And be frustrated that their builds (which woul dbe considered "orchid" by the power gamers) do not perform.

Metagaming already is the single most important factor to build a successful build, at least for EE. The new nerf/bug fix pass will not help with that.

I would never ever call any player "immature", not even those posting on the other forum. There simply is no propper balancing in DDO, at least not w/o scrapping all the enhancement passes and the EDs and going back to the drawboard. And that will not happen, let´s get over this. So there always will be players cookiecutting their builds and others trying to survive with what suits them best.

By the way, since you mentioned it, 8 years ago we were at what, cap 14? it´s much easier to balance for a small level range. And guess what, before ddo got much easier, opened up and went f2p, the game was neraly dead. It was going forward or closing. Want back into those times? Me not!





Warlock is still massvely OP, but not because of DPS. The only thing that does not need "fixing" in Warlock is DPS. What needs fixing is the tremendous advantage a WL (and WL splash!!!) gains thru ES tier 5 "Shining Through". That is the worst case of OP I have seen in DDO for years, and that includes the Pally before the 1st Holy Sword nerf. On a second thought, if WL is still perceived too OP after that fix, make blasts (not base blast, but all else, like chain blast...) cost SP. Problem solved. WL needs an up on DPS in epic levels, by the way. Any chance we get Draconic and Magister scale WL levels too?




I can see you have not been playing WL. Otherwise you would know that one single enhancement gives the WL that perceived OPedness you are ranting about. Any WL splash of at least 5 levels can take that enhancement at lv. 12 total. and ever there after is OP to the worst! The enhancement is named "Shining Through" and gives Con x 12 temporary hit points to the toon. You gain 25% healing amp on top of that for 20 seconds and the cooldown is just 30 seconds.

Take away exactly that one single enhancement, or even better, make it only give Con x 6 and make the cooldown at least one minute (better 2), and you will see how fast all the WL and WL splashes will vanish from EE or any content above lv. 12.

Pure WL needs some help until lv. 4. With lv. 4 WL gains enough power to do serious damage in heroic content. The WL reaches the damage maximum at lv. 20, and if EDs are available becomes nearly godlike powerful at that level. The Warlock does not gain more inherent blast DPS ever there after, with the exception of taking epic feats that give some few points of damage more. The WL power curve flattens significantly where most other builds quite finely get significantly more power - during epic levels. At lv. 28 the Warlock is barely on par with most medicore builds and clearly sub par compared to Swash, Pally, Barb and most fotm and exploiter builds.

So, WL is OP from lv. 4 onwards, gets a significant power boost at lv. 12 (Shining Through) and another upon reaching EDs on lv. 20. The WL maxes out at lv. 20, his power curve flattens out thereafter and upon reaching lv. 28 and end game, the WL is comparable to most other builds and even lags behind the EE power builds. Any build can take on 5 or 6 level of WL and profit from Shining Through.

What would be needed to do? In heroics, the DPS from a WL needs some tone down. A possible solution would be to make Blasts cost SP. That would keep WLs off too much DPS in heroic content. The Shining Through enhancement needs a complete nerf on both output and cooldown. Leave the current DPS intact, do the other nerfs. You will see how much the WL looses where it counts most: Heroic levels and early epics.

And for those telling me I do not play WL - I have played WL now several times, from 1 to 28. Yes, I know exactly what WL is capable and what not. WL is OP. But it´s not DPS.

And how do you explain this SS:

Are warlocks spoiling the fun of every other party member and trivializing EE content with only Uber HP?
Are they killing 225 EE mobs with their sheer constitution?

[Enderoc]

not a single blunt weapon crit chance increase...or bows.

[Nestroy]

Are warlocks spoiling the fun of every other party member and trivializing EE content with only Uber HP?
Are they killing 225 EE mobs with their sheer constitution?

I think I gave a more detailed answer here.

Here a short version: While there are certain WL builds and splashes, that can do tremendous damage in a quest, they are still off what current Barb, Pally, Bard and Ranger builds are capable of doing. And most exploiter wolfs and Shuriken expoiter builds. What you are telling us: You (and perhaps some of your group) were galled to see one of the ubers rocking content. I have seen such on quite some builds and players lately, e.g. Bards leading kill counts by a landslide. And I have been running with them on my WL. What you try to showcase to us is the fact that a geared out and maxed PL vet uber build can rock content. The only new information gained here is the fact that WLs can do this too.

There had been a time when the other caster classes were likely uber. Wizzies and Sorcs nuking everything into oblivion, like there would not have been a tomorrow. Nowadays it´s usually melees and some ranged builds doing this kind of stuff. Good to see at least one arcane class beeing able to keep up with meanwhile older EE stuff. Time to get a general caster pass.

[elvesunited]

Testing on dummy with a wold druid. Criticals have improved but .....

Previously ....

Wolf form crits only on 19 and 20 regardless of improved critical feat.

Now .....

Wolf form crits on 18, 19, and 20 but not 17.

So it's +1 crit range from the feat for the wolf. Not +2.

[Grace_ana]

I'm not on board with a lot of the changes, but I find the exploitation of this person's story by another poster unhappy with the changes really disturbing. This story was posted by the original poster once. It has now been plastered in at least two or three other threads by someone using it to apparently claim that the changes are so bad they are literally ruining someone's life. Personally, I wouldn't claim someone as a friend and use them and their personal life for my own purposes.

[raeslys]

I'm not sure if I'm a fan of the armor/tactics feats, but given that the lower feats are not prereqs for the higher I would think the more valid question is whether 2 feats are worth 21 prr, or 3 feats are worth 27 prr/mrr. There's a logical inconsistency in saying fighters don't have enough feats to get everything they need and then be willing to spend a feat to get 3 prr/mrr when you likely already have reasonable amounts of prr/mrr through feats/enhances/equipment.

As you wish, but 4 Feats for 30 prr/mrr is a garbage, and I do not think many people is willing to sacrifice more than two feats in its, I think it. Feats are very important. Other better solution is a feat like Toughness. That you can get always you want and you get 5/10/15 prr/mrr if you have light/medium/heavy armor. Then it can be a little useful.

Outside your personal tastes, you have to see the impact on the game. The long run this detracts diversity to the game, less melle dps, less tanks, more melle with evation (goodbye lv 20 capstons), and very more warlocks and mechanics.

[FerretBabette]

I got pretty aggravated recently due to handwraps being gimped by the change combined with chronic lag making the game unplayable and I raged about quitting the game.
After talking with a fellow guildie, (a software developer herself), and seeing some other posters here who seem maintain pretty steady positive perspectives, regardless of their own game playing challenges..AND fellow guildies who LOVE their monk toons but didn't miss much of a beat when their wraps got nerfed.. ..I had a change of heart about quitting this game.

Still..the mere thought of the lag which has been an old persistent issue still aggravates me and I cringe at the thought of upcoming holidays where I have personally had more time to play, but haven't been able to due so to game stopping lag.
Yet in all fairness..I didn't want to deal with submitting bug reports everytime it happened and maybe some submitted details can help with the issue.
Some folks don't seem even really bothered by it..and maybe if I had more time to play..the subject might be a shoulder shrugger for me as well.
In the spirit of Occam's razor however..I do think and will say..if a customer pays for a product..seems like they should be able to use it.
Especially a video game during the holidays...but enough of that. What I will commit to on that topic is to try to do something productive with the frustration with deep breath and detailed bug report and see where that goes.
Hopefully at least some transparency about the lag root causes to start.

Ok ..that was a focus on LAG.

Now. Before and after balance change with my barbarian.

Very first barb toon for me. I was inspired by a video I saw a month or so ago of Eth doing CITW EH PDK with hammers and then a great post by Red Sonja on some logistics of how to approach a 2wf barb build.
It just looked really fun and I wanted to try a different melee toon to play thru martial epic tree lives but I also wanted survivability and was hoping fast healing, blood strength and consecration twist would get me that on my lil toon with not so many past lives yet...

Before the change I decided to test her with some Whelon quests on Epic Hard solo. I did 2 of the quests. Loved it. Very fun. Look ma no hireling! :-D
2WF-warhammers main hand drow with stunning and offhand thunderforged.
PDK Level 26
Ravager mainly for the blood strength and other treats.

After the change:
Same build same weapons and I finished the chain.
Maybe slight difference in dps and I hardly noticed the 1 sec cooldown on blood strength at all...especially with fast healing ticking as well.
The quests 'felt' a little more challenging especially with the crowned shadar kai but it probably should feel kinda challenging for Epic Hard solo....even after a few past lives.. (I only have 4 or 5 at this point on Ferbear.)


Overall for me on the barb pre and post change, I was able to complete some epic hard quests solo and that was very fun.

Eventually I hope to be able to do some epic elites just as smoothly on any class and contribute effectively and funly to any groups I run with.

Thankies for reading.
Apologies for previously unproductive angry rantz. (I totally blame the FerretBarbarian Raging RoaawerrFrenzy!) X-D