Dual-box openers

[EllisDee37]

I think I've settled on a pale trapper for the level 11. While I would absolutely love to have fascinate for Desert Caravan, that's one of the least important duties of the 11 opener. A pale trapper gets us:

- Immunity to level drain for beholders (Invaders!, VON3, etc...)
- Webby firewalls for easy AoE handling of VON5 zombies
- Much better than bard for Tomb of the Tormented
- A pet for:
- ...pulling levers in VON5, both to open doors and to lower forcefields
- ...manning the first gate in VON4, allowing DDoor after each side

The biggest concern for the bard option would be fighting large groups, especially zombies in VON5. Also beholders. The wizard is just a superior option pretty much everywhere except Desert Caravan, which doesn't really need an opener to help solo it anyway.

I figure a starting wisdom of 12 so that ship buffs and a +6 wisdom swap item would let the wizard solo a side in VON5: Wizard handles wisdom and range, skeleton pet handles strength. It's just a matter of finding the least AP and buffs we need to commit to the pet to reach 25 strength.

Just did some testing in VON5: Spot 33 is the magic number, which is fairly easy to hit with a starting wisdom of 12. Reflex save 34 vs traps is trickier, but with some clever gearing it's achievable. Totally gimping my epic challenge farmer into the ground, I was able to test webby firewalls on the first group of zombies in VON5 with a 27 conjuration DC and 120 fire spell power + maximize to almost perfectly mimic the build I'm thinking of and was quite pleased with the effectiveness. (I think the build ends up with 29 conjuration DC and 119 fire spell power + maximize.)

EDIT: Updated the level 7 post with the full build.

[EllisDee37]

After finally pulling Divine Artillery for the 15 I finished gearing her up except for the trinket, since I'm still waiting for a sale on Devil's Gambit. But otherwise she's ready to go.

Now that Mabar is over I hopped back on my completionist paladin life, which is up to Gianthold. After the first quest (Feast or Famine) for bravery my initial feeling is that the 15 opener is ridiculously, comically OP. heh.

I also need to run the 7 through the content it's supposed to open so it actually can. Once the completionist hits 20 and TRs again I'll set up the new 11 Pale Trapper, then maybe the 7 on the following life. Or just have the 7 solo all the content now. Not sure.

[Xahtep]

I dont have the money to buy packs for a 2nd account, instead made the alts to help new guildmates and friends that are in the tr wheel while i farm epic xp.

These toons are very efficient in what they do.

Thanks for posting the builds.

[EllisDee37]

Thanks much, I appreciate the kind words.



I've been using the 7 to do favor runs so it can actually open elite. One thing I've realized in doing this is that the suggested crafted weapons are largely pointless. One of the best features of bane weapons is the +2 enhancement bonus to your weapon, but in this case that adds nothing. It uses a +0 repeater with +3 ammo; adding +2 to the repeater still leaves us with a +3 weapon.

So I think I might deconstruct the crafted weapons I made for the 7 to conserve bag weight. They are technically better, but it's only 1d6 better. I think I'd rather sacrifice 1d6 so that I can use one single weapon for everything.

[Dagobahlt]

Now for a couple of things worth mentioning:
Right now (Thanksgiving Weekend, 2015), both of DDO's expansion packs are on sale in the DDO Market at 85% off. This makes them absolutely amazing deals atm, even if you literally only consider the Turbine Points included (assuming MotU Standard and Shadowfell Collectors editions). Not only that, but the Market is currently the only way to purchase them, since the new DDO Store doesn't support bundles yet. I recommend grabbing both if you can, for a total of 3000 TP, a decent number of adventure packs, access to 3 iconics (all but bladeforged), the Druid class, and Epic Destinies, along with some XP tomes that will help you level. If you do that this weekend (while the sale is on), you'll pay $12.75 (usd).
With the next update, the Vale of Twilight is getting a "Legendary" version. Because of this, the price is also being increased to 995 TP. This means that if you're not a VIP, you should probably go ahead and buy it now, before the price goes up.


I hope this helps.

--ArekDorun

.

Copy pasted ArekDourn from another thread.
Also Starter Pack and H-Orc may be worth it for a few more cheap 750 TPs for $4.50

And if you're really hungry for TP, check out the LORTO Expansion pack for 1000TP for $10

[cjgoddard]

would it be more ideal to use another opener,

i have 10 char slots to work with,
(instead of 3,7,11,15,?) + the others.

*at what lvl's would you place a elite opener to party with*???.
-3,6,9,12,15,18,21,24,27,30- <- my thoughts on where to place?

the question im trying to ask is,
at what lvl's, would you place a elite opener, to maxamize its value at that lvl.
(instead of trying to being conservitive).

i wish to maximize guild renown, and i need to stay at, or under lvl.

(from 1 to 30, would this work better or do you have a diff way.
(i would use for buffing and rescues ),
plus,
(it increases the games scaling defficultys, i think)
the opener will be left at door, if it goes inside.

((sorry for the weird questions, still trying to sort things out in my head about ddo)).

p.s. here's my 2 cents,
i'm addicted to DDO because you can design a char from scratch,
it's more in depth than "deus ex" and "fallout",
(that's what hooked me on those games also).
thx for your help

[EllisDee37]

If I were going to add more, I'd probably go with something like

3 runs 1-4
7 runs 5-6
9 runs 7 to 9
12 runs 10-12
15 runs 13-15

I'd keep the 3, 7 and 15 the same builds as detailed in this thread, and probably make the 9 and 12 pale trappers.

If you step every 3 levels, the level 6 build will be noticeably weaker than the 7 build is for running level 5 quests. (Phiarlan Carnival, necro1, etc...)

[cjgoddard]

If I were going to add more, I'd probably go with something like

3 runs 1-4
7 runs 5-6
9 runs 7 to 9
12 runs 10-12
15 runs 13-15

I'd keep the 3, 7 and 15 the same builds as detailed in this thread, and probably make the 9 and 12 pale trappers.

If you step every 3 levels, the level 6 build will be noticeably weaker than the 7 build is for running level 5 quests. (Phiarlan Carnival, necro1, etc...)

thx very much.
(i'm surprised about the lvl 6 build),
its the reason why i'm asking.
in following this thread, how would you speck out to lvl 30?

(with 2 alt accounts, i hvae 14 char slots.)

alt account1 will use (3, 7 ,9, 12, 15) lvl char's-> (not able to buy these packs untill next year)
Heart of Madness
The High Road of Shadows
Haunted Halls of Eveningstar
Shadow Under Thunderholme

alt account2 will use (18, ?, ?, etc). to lvl 30.
(or should i start with 17 here).
(this account will have all packs)

question?
i'm lvl 5, opener is lvl 7, both in a lvl 5 quest.
would the lvl 5 char suffer a 10% or 20% exp penility.

thx for your help.

[Dagobahlt]

thx very much.
(i'm surprised about the lvl 6 build),
its the reason why i'm asking.
in following this thread, how would you speck out to lvl 30?

(with 2 alt accounts, i hvae 14 char slots.)

alt account1 will use (3, 7 ,9, 12, 15) lvl char's-> (not able to buy these packs untill next year)
Heart of Madness
The High Road of Shadows
Haunted Halls of Eveningstar
Shadow Under Thunderholme

alt account2 will use (18, ?, ?, etc). to lvl 30.
(or should i start with 17 here).
(this account will have all packs)

question?
i'm lvl 5, opener is lvl 7, both in a lvl 5 quest.
would the lvl 5 char suffer a 10% or 20% exp penility.

thx for your help.

I find this interesting as well.
Although you mentioned that you like to group in the teens. If life restricts you to solo, what would an 18 opener look like (similar template with troublesome quests 16-18)?
Would your 21 Challenge framer then work for a 19-21 opener?
Adding these 2 to what you already listed should allow for easy HTR.

Would you keep your mombots for the quests that don't need these openers?

Then to make openers for 24, 27 and 30 when the cap raises for ETR. Is this even feasible?

Already you have made it so that these openers can add an option of variety while questing (ie: slower but fun challenge of elite stealthy repossession) ?

Thanks for your work!

[EllisDee37]

The 18 build would probably be either a mechanic, or maybe a swashbuckler with trap skills for variety.

Would your 21 Challenge framer then work for a 19-21 opener?

Well, it could, but it has no trapping skills.

Would you keep your mombots for the quests that don't need these openers?

I deleted my mombots and replaced them with the builds from this thread. Well, the 3, 7 and 15 anyway. Haven't gotten around to replacing the 11 yet but I will.

Then to make openers for 24, 27 and 30 when the cap raises for ETR. Is this even feasible?

It's feasible, but I don't know how much utility they would provide. Pretty sure epic quests can be opened on elite by anybody, even on a first life.

But it might be fun think up the special requirements of the epic levels and try to build alts to satisfy them. Epic isn't really my bag, so I can't speak to that. Maybe a druid earthquake build for EE crowd control?

[Dagobahlt]

Ok. I spent 21.75 this weekend for a dual box account.
Got HOrc, Starter, Underdark and Both Shadowfells for 8 caharacter slots, 4750TP and a ton more extras!
I love your guides and tweak them for my own preferences.

[Jasparion]

I'm trying to come up with the most useful dual-box opener builds for various heroic levels. The goal is to make the opener for a given level range provide all (or as many as possible) of the specialized services called for by quests in that range.

My assumption for a dual-box account is that it starts off with both expansions during a Black Friday sale, then slowly buys adventure packs on sale, starting with the lowest level packs first. That means no premium races or classes (except druids, pdk, shadar-kai and sun-elf), no 32pt builds at first, no shared bank, and virtually no crafting skills. (Only unbound crafting shards, no masterful.)

In addition to any quest-specific functions, an opener is assumed to be able to handle all trapping needs. In a perfect world the opener will run really fast, be able to teleport, and have DDoor.

Level 3
Level 7
Level 11
Level 15

Feedback is encouraged. Any build or gear choices that could be made better? Any specialized needs the openers don't cover? All suggestions and ideas welcome.

So I have read through all of this and have a few questions:

When you say "dual box opener" do you mean that the only purpose for the other account is to open the quest? Because then you would just need any character that has already done the quest on Elite, then you dual box, share the quest with that character, then your levelling character can enter on Elite on its own. I have a level 28 toon on my main account that I use to open dungeons on my alt account.

Or do you mean "will actually run the quest while my gimp levelling toon sits inside at the door and gets the dungeon completed for me"... because then all of this makes a lot more sense? The best option here would be to use Iconics. You create them, then leave their starting zone at level 1 and go to the Harbor/Marketplace/House D trainers and instantly level them up to whatever level you want. You then only need to worry about getting the right gear. A quick trip to the AH to start, then farm for whatever it is you are after.

BTW: for Stealthy Repossession, the easiest way is a level 3 Invis clicky (if you have one), 3 Invis pots (if you can afford them), or a Level 3 Wiz who casts Invisibility 3 times.

To complete:
Buff up in the room, open the door and zerg to the 1st lever, pull it, zerg to the next lever, Invis, zerg to the door with the next lever and Invis after doing that lever, zerg to the side room with the 2 levers, then Invis after that.

Then its a matter of going in to the final room and grabbing the gem. On Elite you can run behind the boxes and kill a few Kobolds until you can exit out. On Hard and Normal you can easily clear the room and then exit out.

That said, if you are levelling first life toons, just skip the tough quests. You get so much XP you will never have a problem. Levelling a heap of toons to different levels and gearing them all up seems like an enormous amount of effort. The time spent doing this would get a couple of new toons to level 20 and TRd.

[EllisDee37]

When you say "dual box opener" do you mean that the only purpose for the other account is to open the quest? Because then you would just need any character that has already done the quest on Elite, then you dual box, share the quest with that character, then your levelling character can enter on Elite on its own.

This doesn't work for chains. (Catacombs, tangleroot, etc...)

BTW: for Stealthy Repossession, the easiest way is a level 3 Invis clicky (if you have one), 3 Invis pots (if you can afford them)

That's how I ran it for years, as alluded to in this post.

That said, if you are levelling first life toons, just skip the tough quests. You get so much XP you will never have a problem. Levelling a heap of toons to different levels and gearing them all up seems like an enormous amount of effort. The time spent doing this would get a couple of new toons to level 20 and TRd.

We have fundamentally different philosophies on playing the game. As much as you read the first page and thought "You're doing it wrong", I read your suggested alternative and think "You're doing it wrong." I'm guessing you prefer playing epics?

As a general rule, I don't skip content other than a few exceptions. Also, I explained a separate motivation for this project in this post.

[Jasparion]

This doesn't work for chains. (Catacombs, tangleroot, etc...)

That's how I ran it for years, as alluded to in this post.

We have fundamentally different philosophies on playing the game. As much as you read the first page and thought "You're doing it wrong", I read your suggested alternative and think "You're doing it wrong." I'm guessing you prefer playing epics?

As a general rule, I don't skip content other than a few exceptions. Also, I explained a separate motivation for this project in this post.

My first 2 points were questions. The final point was a suggestion. Not sure why you are so defensive.

So your philosophy is to level a whole bunch of different characters but only use the same handful of "openers" to actually complete all of the quests each time?

[EllisDee37]

My first 2 points were questions. The final point was a suggestion. Not sure why you are so defensive.

Probably the condescending tone and implied "you're doing it wrong" insult. Bonus points for offering a "superior" alternative that doesn't actually work. (Sharing doesn't work for chains.)

So your philosophy is to level a whole bunch of different characters but only use the same handful of "openers" to actually complete all of the quests each time?

I use my dual-box openers to:
1) Open elite for first and second life alts
2) Assist running a handful of quests on any life: Stealthy Repossession, Partycrashers, Burning Heart, Xorian Cypher, Crucible, possibly a few more
3) Bring into PUGs I'm already in if the group wants a trapper and is tired of waiting for one to join
4) Double my drop rates when farming gear/mats (Invaders! tokens, Tor dragonscales, etc...)
5) Group with guildies/friends at various heroic levels if they're looking for help
6) Run events (eg: Crystal Cove) at various levels if I feel like it

When I use my dual-box openers in combination with my main account, the opener is usually the secondary character. The "main" does the heavy lifting inside quests. The exception here is when I bring in the dual-box to handle traps in PUGs. Then I'll typically run the dual-box while my main pikes.

The difference in philosophy I mentioned was that I'm guessing you see Heroic levels as a chore to be gotten through as quickly and painlessly as possible so you can get back to epics. I view heroics as the game, with epics being my unfun chore I try to get through as quickly and painlessly as possible so I can get back to heroics.

[Jasparion]

Probably the condescending tone and implied "you're doing it wrong" insult. Bonus points for offering a "superior" alternative that doesn't actually work. (Sharing doesn't work for chains.)

I use my dual-box openers to:
1) Open elite for first and second life alts
2) Assist running a handful of quests on any life: Stealthy Repossession, Partycrashers, Burning Heart, Xorian Cypher, Crucible, possibly a few more
3) Bring into PUGs I'm already in if the group wants a trapper and is tired of waiting for one to join
4) Double my drop rates when farming gear/mats (Invaders! tokens, Tor dragonscales, etc...)
5) Group with guildies/friends at various heroic levels if they're looking for help
6) Run events (eg: Crystal Cove) at various levels if I feel like it

When I use my dual-box openers in combination with my main account, the opener is usually the secondary character. The "main" does the heavy lifting inside quests. The exception here is when I bring in the dual-box to handle traps in PUGs. Then I'll typically run the dual-box while my main pikes.

The difference in philosophy I mentioned was that I'm guessing you see Heroic levels as a chore to be gotten through as quickly and painlessly as possible so you can get back to epics. I view heroics as the game, with epics being my unfun chore I try to get through as quickly and painlessly as possible so I can get back to heroics.

My group will do a few quick Iconic lives followed by a long run from level 1 where we run every quest in the game (well, they do about 10 Iconic lives, but I dont).

There are good and bad points to each. The same quests over and over can get boring but you level quickly. Some of the dungeons quite simply suck so its a chore to do them.

For my own alts Im quite happy running things on Hard. Generally takes far less time meaning your XP/min is a lot better.

Requires *FAR* better gear than I have to be able to solo zerg Elite stuff.

[EllisDee37]

My group will do a few quick Iconic lives followed by a long run from level 1 where we run every quest in the game (well, they do about 10 Iconic lives, but I dont).

heh, I hear ya.

I have so far never run an Iconic life. I have five total EPLs on two different characters (3 on one, 2 on the other) on my entire account, and those two characters are the only characters I've ever leveled past 25. Mostly I just run heroics, always from level 1, always running every quest elite for bravery, often solo. If I'm playing a lot, it'll take me 3-4 weeks to go from 1 to 20. More typical is 4-5 weeks. This year much (most?) of my play time has been diverted to working on my character planner, plus setting up these dual-box alts, so I've only managed a handful of lives on my real characters.

[Zistra]

Caveat: I haven't read all the postings to this thread.

However, I did make a F2P opener account with which to dual-box, mostly so I could open and solo elites on 1st and 2nd life toons. I didn't invest any money into the account, so it only has a few low-level packs.

Just in case you hadn't considered it, your opener often doesn't need to run to the quest. The reason I mention it is that not doing so can save you tons of time, which is often a consideration for those of us who have played many of these quests over and over. If your opener has elite unlocked because they have already run Hard or Elite, for many quests, they just have to be in the party and logged in (This is not true for someone who can open elites because they're VIP). There are exceptions, and some matter more than others. Any multi-part quest, the opener has to actually run through the progression (Cartamon, for example). Some other quests, the opener has to enter regardless (e.g. Collaborator). Sometimes, it's easier to run the opener through the progression and simply run the main from quest to quest without progressing the storyline (e.g. Catacombs). For my needs, this less-complicated lower-investment approach worked well, so I thought I'd present it for consideration.

Obviously, having the opener have the skills to handle a particular quest or part of a quest can be helpful, but balanced against the need to run him/her to each and every quest every time.. I found that it didn't really pay off.

<EDIT>
I have since read a bit more and I realize your philosophy on this differs from mine. I'll leave this post in case it is of value to anyone else.

[EllisDee37]

<EDIT>
I have since read a bit more and I realize your philosophy on this differs from mine. I'll leave this post in case it is of value to anyone else.

I don't know, I often don't set foot inside the quest with the opener, but instead just leave him in the party so the main character can enter elite. It feels like I do this for the majority of quests, but there are a lot of chains, so I don't know how the actual percentages shake out.

I'm curious how your opener opens elite for the packs that the account doesn't own. It sounds like your opener doesn't have access to most quests.

[C-Dog]

...My assumption for a dual-box account is that it starts off with both expansions during a Black Friday sale, then slowly buys adventure packs on sale, starting with the lowest level packs first...

Was fired up for the Level 7 repeater, but the lowbie quests you assume are bought early include Sorrowdusk Isle (not typically a "first buy"*). Without that, no House D returning ammo. ("Sentinals" won't quite get you there.)

(* Other quest packs around that same level are, generally speaking, more attractive early on (Delara, Devils), and then other levels are crying for love all too soon.)

Hardly a dealbreaker, just sayin' before other non-VIP start down this path.

Other than that, awesome possum!