Dual-box openers

[Livmo]

I added the level 15 version, which is one I'm actually leveling now. She's currently level 13.

Way cool and TY!

Also, make it a 3 pack sampler? One of each Iconic that comes with DDO Market Shadowfell expansion?

You're really good at building toons and can present them well here on forums. I do all mine in my head and don't use planners. If I were to put them on here in a narrative style the big wall of text would scare people off and they would not read them

[Jeromio]

I've dual-boxed quite a lot, and I really like to use a human bard/rogue with Greater Dragonmark of Finding, and which can handle almost any trap/lock, buff up my main (GH, FoM, Blur etc), do social skill optionals and give +1 loot in chests. Fascinate can also be useful sometimes.

As for handling the rest of the quests, my mains are usually quite capable of handling them. For Necro 2-3, it might be handy to have wizard/rogue alt char to speed things up a bit.

I rarely use any alt account for levels 1-4.

[EllisDee37]

I rarely use any alt account for levels 1-4.

As a non-vip, I use alt accounts to open elite for my mains on their first and second lives.

[EllisDee37]

I added the level 7 opener, and re-did both the OP and the presentation for the level 3 opener.

[Livmo]

As a non-vip, I use alt accounts to open elite for my mains on their first and second lives.

Since I'm Premium, as side from openers, I leave toons at various levels to run with peeps and help out. I play mostly epics, but also use my openers throughout the level ranges to run with lowbies (level 14 and below IMO). Sometimes folks say ask to run Level 8s, so I also use my Level 8 opener to run with them on my alt. When they get to L12 later on, then I'll log onto my L12 opener is need be.

I like having the toons parked at various levels for lots of other stuff besides opening. It's nice to have a variaty to choose from, aside from my main toons leveling plans. If an opener caps on XP I then level up and move up a toon from below to replace the alt that just took 2 levels.

[EllisDee37]

Yep, agreed. It's nice having real alts in a variety of ranges.

The problem with my original openers (the "mom" build) is that they are deliberately gimped to be nothing more than buffbot trappers. That's good in terms of forcing me to use my real alt to run content (instead of just running the opener) but it's quite bad in terms of having alts at various levels to help out friends and guildies.

For example, when cove rolls around next time, if anyone needs help at any heroic level range I should be good to go.

The problem now is that I need to replace my 3/7/11 mom builds with alts as outlined in this thread.

[EllisDee37]

Just rolled up a veteran level 4 version of the level 3 opener to test its stealth capabilities in Stealthy Repossession. I just used the starter gear, but it seemed to work well enough. She easily finished, and the handful of kobolds that followed me (I've never tried stealth before, and was bad at it) were easily cleaved down after completion.

[EllisDee37]

Well, hmmm. Running the 15 through Shadowfell to pick up the Guardian's bracers/gloves, I just looted Assassin Initiate's Leathers.

Black Dragonhide is still better, right? (It definitely looks way cooler, at least.)

[Livmo]

Well, hmmm. Running the 15 through Shadowfell to pick up the Guardian's bracers/gloves, I just looted Assassin Initiate's Leathers.

Black Dragonhide is still better, right? (It definitely looks way cooler, at least.)

I use the leather's when no other options are availabe and slot a level 8 Sapphire of Heavy Fortification in it. I prefer the dragoscale if I have the scale and sometimes wear those L14 armors till L25. If I had to choose between those 2 I would take the black dragon.

However, these are BtA and work great on rouge types withe +10 will save upgrade. Plus, I can pass these around when a toon out levels them to another toon coming up the levels.

[EllisDee37]

I use the leather's when no other options are availabe and slot a level 8 Sapphire of Heavy Fortification in it. I prefer the dragoscale if I have the scale and sometimes wear those L14 armors till L25. If I had to choose between those 2 I would take the black dragon.

However, these are BtA and work great on rouge types withe +10 will save upgrade. Plus, I can pass these around when a toon out levels them to another toon coming up the levels.

BTA doesn't matter for dual-box openers; shared bank is too expensive.

Parasitic Breastplate and Sustaining Symbiont were part of the original gear plan, but I quickly shifted away from them when I realized I could get +10 to all saves by combining a +6 resistance lootgen item with the +4 insightful saves bracers from Shadowfell.



I think I agree that black dragonhide is better than assassin leathers. At very least they're close enough that I'll choose the dragonhide anyway because it looks a million times cooler. It's also trivially easy to farm up black dragonscale on a dual-box account, since by definition you get two chest pulls per run (~5 scales) and you can bring an epic alt from your main account to faceroll it quickly on heroic elite.

[Livmo]

BTA doesn't matter for dual-box openers; shared bank is too expensive.

Parasitic Breastplate and Sustaining Symbiont were part of the original gear plan, but I quickly shifted away from them when I realized I could get +10 to all saves by combining a +6 resistance lootgen item with the +4 insightful saves bracers from Shadowfell.



I think I agree that black dragonhide is better than assassin leathers. At very least they're close enough that I'll choose the dragonhide anyway because it looks a million times cooler. It's also trivially easy to farm up black dragonscale on a dual-box account, since by definition you get two chest pulls per run (~5 scales) and you can bring an epic alt from your main account to faceroll it quickly on heroic elite.

I have a handful of alt accounts and one of the first items I get it the Shared Bank to pass BtA stuff amongst toons, especially Crystal Cove gear around. I only do the first one typically.

You'll find the dragon scale is better for the armor piercing (nice to have).

To get scales faster, use a L28 on HE T0R and let your other 5 toons die at the start and then pick up their stones and carry them to first dragon chest, etc. I use the shrines near the chest(s). Then I get them killed by the giant skelli and pick them all up on way to the next dragon. Rinse and repeat.

[EllisDee37]

You'll find the dragon scale is better for the armor piercing (nice to have).

Assassin Initiate's Leathers has the same 10% Armor Piercing as Black Dragonhide. The comparison boils down to:

Black Dragonhide: +5% damage for 30 seconds after killing blow
Assassin Leathers: +5 Sneak Attack damage, Blue Augment slot

[Livmo]

Assassin Initiate's Leathers has the same 10% Armor Piercing as Black Dragonhide. The comparison boils down to:

Black Dragonhide: +5% damage for 30 seconds after killing blow
Assassin Leathers: +5 Sneak Attack damage, Blue Augment slot

I meant over the Parastitic. The armor piercing is nice to have. I would take the dragon armor over the leathers if I had the scales handy.

[EllisDee37]

Just successfully farmed up mantle of the worldshaper on the level 7, which is nice. I was worried you might not be able to run all of threnal on a level 7, but you can.

[EllisDee37]

Finishing off the 7 I just took her in to solo Circles of Power and Kobold Chaos. Did both on 10 because why not. Man, this repeater build just killed it. In both challenges, amost every mob died to just one volley, while bosses took around four volleys. It was insane.

One run of each challenge netted me 600+ lava caves mats and 800+ island mats. Done and done, she is now completely geared. At least until cove rolls around and I can make her a cove hat.

[EllisDee37]

Finished gearing up the 3.

Stealthy Repossession is actually quite fun when you do it with real stealth, as opposed to invisi-running. This was only my second try, and the first one was the level 4 test build with no gear.

This time around I put some effort into really stealthing, and finished the entire run with two gongs and only 1 kill after picking up the gem. With this build I can easily get those down to no gongs and no kills.

I would have thought the trickiest part would have been after you take that left turn, open the door to the small room and pull the switch in that small room, but no. Since I was stealthy (instead of loudly clanking around) the kobolds in that little room never woke up.

EDIT: Part of gearing up the 3 involved running Partycrashers with the recently finished 7, who easily soloed the whole thing with no end fight at all.

[EllisDee37]

With this build I can easily get those down to no gongs and no kills.

Several tries later and mission accomplished. I captured video and added it to the level 3 build post.

Turns out that the kobold pathing is semi-randomized in there. Any or all of them may walk their paths in either direction (clockwise or counter-clockwise) and there are several spots where there may be either one or two prophets walking around. It's random enough that you can't just memorize a pattern, but have to adjust as you go. That's way more fun, so kudos to the original designers.

I wouldn't want to do this with any lower skills; the first couple runs I was spotted for seemingly no reason. I think 22 hide & move silently is right around the lower limit of what you want to make this easy.

It took a couple attempts to get the hang of it, then maybe three or four more to get a perfect run with no gongs and no kills, with no fighting after completion. In all runs I could have easily gotten a completion, though, so it's not like you have to do perfect runs.

I now look forward to Stealthy Repossession each life as a fun diversion, instead of the chore where I have to remember to grab 7 invis potions off my mule. Granted the invisi-run technique is much faster; around a minute compared to the 3.5 minutes in the video, but stealthing it is way more fun.

Unfortunately something on my computer started checking for updates during the captured run, so the video gets jittery in a couple places early on.

[EllisDee37]

Thinking about the 11, I'm torn between an 8/2/1 bard/rogue/fighter or a 9/2 wizard/rogue.

The 8/2/1 bard/rogue fighter takes the fighter level solely to reach 8 BAB so it can take improved crit: bludgeoning. You can craft a keen kukri for zombies in VON5, use a tiefling assassin's blade for trash, then craft up light maces for skeletons and constructs. All the crafted weapons would then be at their proper 15-20x3 crit profile since kukris are 18-20x2 weapons.

Enhancements would be a pretty firm 7 AP human for DDoor and 18 AP swashbuckler for uncanny dodge, resonant arms and skirmisher. (All of which require 10 AP spent, and total 8 AP between them.) That leaves enough AP to get either to 10 AP in warchanter (greater heroism, frozen fury) or spellsinger (fascinate undead). Not sure which I'd rather have. VON5 zombies are one of my biggest concerns for the 11, but I'm not sure we need to be able to fascinate them. A keen kukri with resonant arms and spell power in a red slot should be sufficient for them.

The best feature of the bard option would be Desert Caravan, which is trivially easy for a bard: Fascinate the first couple waves, then keep them fascinated for the whole 10 minutes. All you have to do is kill the few scorpions who spawn in the center and you're done. I love doing this approach, so this adds extra weight to the bard choice for me.

The 9/2 wizard/rogue might be weak against VON5 zombies, maybe. I suppose you could cast a firewall, switch to a tower shield and shield block while they die, but would that take ages before it actually kills them? Maybe I should test that.

The wizard would be much, much, much better than the bard for Tomb of the Tormented, for sure. Night and day better. It's worse for Desert Caravan, though, where you'd be stuck playing it straight up. No fun there.


EDIT: Testing The first blade trap in VON5 on my old "mom build" 11 opener:

2+34 save (36)
4+31 fail (35)

Meaning the target number for reflex save vs traps is 34: fails on a 1, saves on a 2+.

EDIT 2: Further testing on that same VON5 blade trap, after many many deaths (to manipulate his skill total) my ranger has confirmed that the spot check is 33. (32 = fail, 33 = success)

[EllisDee37]

Running through the 2s, 3s and 4s on the level 3 opener (so that it can actually open elite) it is able to find all the boxes and disable all the traps, but the Spot is currently too low to spot danger in Bookbinder's, Proof, and Redfang.

This won't effect me all that much, but I do prefer being able to actually spot danger so I'm going to try a couple things to see if I can't get that squared away. Easiest is to just add Owl's Wisdom potions for an extra +2 spot. If that's not enough, I'll try swapping out the Dex +2 item for a Spot +5 item for another +2. If that's still not enough I may very well just give up and call it good enough. Spot isn't strictly necessary.

Another thought I had for the 3 is something to make Protect Baudry's Shipment (or whatever it's called) easier. I always find that quest stressful, but am not sure what would make it easy. Possibly a range build, but would that fire fast enough to kill the kobolds before they break the crate? Melee are slower in there if only because casters can come from multiple directions at once and only come within lightning bolt range of the crate, so you have to do a ton of running.

If it could be done by simply swapping out Human Versatility (skills boost) for Arbalester and going to town with a great crossbow of reptillian bane, that's an easy enough change to make. Not sure about that since we wouldn't be getting any ability mod damage bonus.

[EllisDee37]

Final changes to the level 3 are posted. This includes feat and gear changes:

- Moved Deadly II from head to ring (which used to be Resistance +4)
- Moved Resistance +4 from ring to gloves (which used to be Dex +2)
- Added Cat's Grace potions (for Stealthy Repossession only)
- Dropped Stealthy, replaced it with Skill Focus: Spot
- Added Spot +5 hat
- Added Owl's Wisdom potions (for general questing)
- Added maul of Undead Bane (for catacombs, mainly)
- Changed trash weapon from +1 Flaming to +1 Screaming

Some testing for Spot DCs show you need 15 for redfang, 17 for bookbinder's and 17 for proof is in the poison. Further testing showed that you need hide & move silently somewhere in the 18-20 range to be effective in stealthy repossession. These changes kick our spot up from 14 to 18, while only dropping hide & move silently down one point from 22 to 21: -2 from losing the Stealthy feat, +1 from going to cat's grace potions instead of using a +2 dex item.

The new gear layout now allows for a cove hat upgrade to squeeze out another +5 HP. You also could swap out the crafted axeblock II leather for Stonedust Leather to get another +1 hide & move silently, since Stonedust has no skill penalty while crafted leathers have -1 skill penalty. Mine won't bother with that, but may upgrade to a cove hat next time it comes around. (A false life of spot +5 cove hat only requires doubloons, no gems or greens. So maybe one or two gem runs at low level and you're done.)

For the weapons, catacombs has enough armored skeletons that you'll really want a maul for undead. I decided to forego a ghost touch version, since the only wraith through level 4 is the final boss in catacombs. That would require a +1 ghost touch weapon, with no room for any suffix.

While flaming is great for ice spiders and frost mephits, the hell hounds in catacombs are immune. Screaming hits everything from level 1 to 4, as far as I can tell.