Ranger: Tempest Changes

[Vargouille]

Upcoming Changes to Tempest
Hi! As some of you probably know we're working on updating Ranger. Here's our current thinking on Tempest changes.

Goals
We want to bring up Tempest DPS and durability to be more competitive with modern balance (for both classes and monsters). We also wanted to balance rewards for Dexterity Tempest builds - Strength and Dexterity builds should have a reasonable place after these changes. This is also a place we're working to make sure light armor melee characters can be competitive. Some of the changes simultaneously flesh Tempest out with additional flavor.


(Abilities in Orange cost 2 AP per rank.)

Core Abilities

• Shield of Whirling Steel: While dual wielding, 2 Shield bonus to Armor Class, Physical Resistance Rating, and Magical Resistance Rating. This increases by +1 for each additional Tempest Core Ability you acquire. If you are a level 1 character, you gain the Two Weapon Fighting feat until you reach character level 2. (Two Weapon Fighting is granted permanently if you take a second Ranger level).
• Graceful Death: While you are dual wielding, you can use your Dexterity modifier for damage with light melee weapons, +5 Melee Power.
• Whirlwind: +5% melee doublestrike chance when dual wielding, +5 Melee Power, +5 Incorporeality (stacking).
• Dervish: Passive: +4 Dexterity. +25% chance to doublestrike with your off-hand when dual wielding. +10 Melee Power, Physical Resist Rating, and Magical Resist Rating while wearing light armor or cloth.

Tier One

• Improved Defense: Shield of Whirling Steel grants +1/2/3 Armor Class, Physical Resist, and Magical Resistance. If you possess Deflect Arrows it can trigger once every 4/3/2 seconds.
• Acrobatic: +1/+2/+3 Balance, Jump and Tumble. Rank 3: You gain +1 Reflex Saving Throws.
  
  • Removed: +2/+4/+6 Armor Class while tumbling.

Tier Three

• Critical Accuracy: Removed from tree, functionality combined into Critical Mastery.
• Critical Mastery: (1/1/1 AP) +1/2/3 bonus to critical damage and to confirm critical hits.
• Storm Dancer: (2 AP) Stance: Absorb 15% of Electrical damage. Your melee attacks deal +1d6 Electrical damage. This damage scales 100% with Melee Power.

Tier Four

• Elaborate Parry: For the next 6/12/18 seconds, you gain Dodge, Maximum Dodge and maximum dexterity bonus to light armor, equal to your Dexterity Modifier. Cooldown: 90 seconds
  
  • The old Elaborate Parry didn't have a good fit anywhere for anyone. It wasn't a good "panic button", since you had to build up charges. Getting to maximum charges was possible but a chore, and you couldn't keep them for very long. This ability is now a strong panic button for dedicated Dexterity builds, capable of reaching very high Dodge for brief periods. It's still potentially useful for other builds as long as they include moderate Dexterity in their overall build. This also builds into the theme of Tempest as an generally mobile and evasive melee combatant.
  
  
• Critical Damage: Removed from tree, functionality combined into Critical Mastery.
• Storm Tempest: (2 AP) Passive. Upgrades Storm Dancer Electrical damage absorption to 30% (instead of 15%). Upgrades melee attacks to deal +2d6 Electrical damage (instead of 1d6).

Tier Five

• A Thousand Cuts: Melee Dual Wielding Attack. Deals +1/+3/+5(W) damage. You gain +15/+30/+45 doublestrike, +15/30/45 Melee Power, 15 seconds. Cooldown: 90 seconds.
  
  • Gives more room for beneficial Doublestrike from other abilities, increases basic damage, synergy with other abilities that scale with Melee Power, slightly reduces lag with lower Doublestrike.
  
  
• Dual Perfection: (2 AP) Your off hand weapon now adds your full attribute damage modifier. (For instance, if you have 30 Strength, you'll gain +10 damage with your offhand weapon, like your main hand weapon.)
• Whirling Blades: (2 AP) +3 to hit and damage when dual wielding.

Thanks for your thoughts and feedback.

[Delacroix21]

Hurray! Thanks for posting!

[Steve_Howe]

Neato!

[Grailhawk]

Given that Stalker does not have a Crit extension and Tempest does not have a Crit extension is it save to assume the design decision to leave Rangers as the only melee class with out a Crit extension of some kind has been made and is final?

Barbarian = Critical Rage, Death Frenzy (19-20 +1)
Fighter = Keen Edge
Paladins = Holy Sword
Monks = Earth Stance (19-20 +1), Ninja Mastery, Staff Spec, Violence Begets Violence (not very good but its something)
Rogues = Knife spec, Staff Spec
Bards = Swashbuckler, Exploit Weakness
Ranger = Nothing

[ValariusK]

Given that Stalker does not have a Crit extension and Tempest does not have a Crit extension is it save to assume the design decision to leave Rangers as the only melee class with out a Crit extension of some kind has been made and is final?

Barbarian = Critical Rage, Death Frenzy (19-20 +1)
Fighter = Keen Edge
Paladins = Holy Sword
Monks = Earth Stance (19-20 +1), Ninja Mastery, Staff Spec, Violence Begets Violence (not very good but its something)
Rogues = Knife spec, Staff Spec
Bards = Swashbuckler, Exploit Weakness
Ranger = Nothing

Yep, as Impressive as your proposed 1000 cuts is, its only about the same damage effect as zeal + holy sword when its running, and its only running 15 out of 90 seconds.

[ValariusK]

Can we discuss the bottom line?
It is my contention that a ranger should have more DPS than a paladin.
Why?
A paladin heals better than a ranger, especially in burst circumstances and is much more durable than a ranger, what with heavy armor plus and excellent saves even in EE. If a ranger has only the dps of a paladin, which they don't, even after the tempest + DWS, why play a ranger when a pally or a pally with a ranger splash can cover all the ranger bases better than a mostly pure or pure ranger?
If the pally dps level is too high there are solutions for that.
You're going to have this problem even more for the fighter pass when you get there.

[losian2]

Upcoming Changes to Tempest
Hi! As some of you probably know we're working on updating Ranger. Here's our current thinking on Tempest changes.

Goals
We want to bring up Tempest DPS and durability to be more competitive with modern balance (for both classes and monsters). We also wanted to balance rewards for Dexterity Tempest builds - Strength and Dexterity builds should have a reasonable place after these changes. This is also a place we're working to make sure light armor melee characters can be competitive. Some of the changes simultaneously flesh Tempest out with additional flavor.

Core Abilities

• Shield of Whirling Steel: While dual wielding, 2 Shield bonus to Armor Class, Physical Resistance Rating, and Magical Resistance Rating. This increases by +1 for each additional Tempest Core Ability you acquire. If you are a level 1 character, you gain the Two Weapon Fighting feat until you reach character level 2. (Two Weapon Fighting is granted permanently if you take a second Ranger level).
• Graceful Death: While you are dual wielding, you can use your Dexterity modifier for damage with light melee weapons, +5 Melee Power.
• Whirlwind: +5% melee doublestrike chance when dual wielding, +5 Melee Power.
• Dervish: Passive: +4 Dexterity. +25% chance to doublestrike with your off-hand when dual wielding. +10 Melee Power, Physical Resist Rating, and Magical Resist Rating while wearing light armor or cloth.

Tier One

• Improved Defense: (2/2/2 AP) Shield of Whirling Steel grants +1/2/3 Armor Class, Physical Resist, and Magical Resistance.
• Acrobatic: +1/+2/+3 Balance, Jump and Tumble. Rank 3: You gain +1 Reflex Saving Throws.
  
  • Removed: +2/+4/+6 Armor Class while tumbling.

Tier Two

• Action Boosts: Cost lowered to 1/1/1 AP

Tier Three

• Critical Accuracy: Removed from tree, functionality combined into Critical Mastery.
• Critical Mastery: (1/1/1 AP) +1/2/3 bonus to critical damage and to confirm critical hits.
• Storm Dancer: (2 AP) Stance: Absorb 15% of Electrical damage. Your melee attacks deal +1d6 Electrical damage. This damage scales 100% with Melee Power.

Tier Four

• Elaborate Parry: For the next 6/12/18 seconds, you gain Dodge, Maximum Dodge and maximum dexterity bonus to light armor, equal to your Dexterity Modifier. Cooldown: 90 seconds
  
  • The old Elaborate Parry didn't have a good fit anywhere for anyone. It wasn't a good "panic button", since you had to build up charges. Getting to maximum charges was possible but a chore, and you couldn't keep them for very long. This ability is now a strong panic button for dedicated Dexterity builds, capable of reaching very high Dodge for brief periods. It's still potentially useful for other builds as long as they include moderate Dexterity in their overall build. This also builds into the theme of Tempest as an generally mobile and evasive melee combatant.
  
  
• Critical Damage: Removed from tree, functionality combined into Critical Mastery.
• Storm Tempest: (2 AP) Passive. Upgrades Storm Dancer Electrical damage absorption to 30% (instead of 15%). Upgrades melee attacks to deal +2d6 Electrical damage (instead of 1d6).

Tier Five

• A Thousand Cuts: Melee Dual Wielding Attack. Deals +1/+3/+5(W) damage. You gain +15/+30/+45 doublestrike, +15/30/45 Melee Power, 15 seconds. Cooldown: 90 seconds.
  
  • Gives more room for beneficial Doublestrike from other abilities, increases basic damage, synergy with other abilities that scale with Melee Power, slightly reduces lag with lower Doublestrike.
  
  
• Dual Perfection: (2 AP) Your off hand weapon now adds your full attribute damage modifier. (For instance, if you have 30 Strength, you'll gain +10 damage with your offhand weapon, like your main hand weapon.)
• Whirling Blades: (2 AP) +3 to hit and damage when dual wielding.

Thanks for your thoughts and feedback.

Does the dex to damage work with unarmed? It'd be the first thing that does, if so!

[losian2]

Given that Stalker does not have a Crit extension and Tempest does not have a Crit extension is it save to assume the design decision to leave Rangers as the only melee class with out a Crit extension of some kind has been made and is final?

Barbarian = Critical Rage, Death Frenzy (19-20 +1)
Fighter = Keen Edge
Paladins = Holy Sword
Monks = Earth Stance (19-20 +1), Ninja Mastery, Staff Spec, Violence Begets Violence (not very good but its something)
Rogues = Knife spec, Staff Spec
Bards = Swashbuckler, Exploit Weakness
Ranger = Nothing

Monk is probably second worst off here, especially unarmed or not in earth stance (it sucks being pigeonholed into *one* stance forever no matter what to put out decent damage.)

[Grailhawk]

Upcoming Changes to Tempest
Hi! As some of you probably know we're working on updating Ranger. Here's our current thinking on Tempest changes.

Goals
We want to bring up Tempest DPS and durability to be more competitive with modern balance (for both classes and monsters). We also wanted to balance rewards for Dexterity Tempest builds - Strength and Dexterity builds should have a reasonable place after these changes. This is also a place we're working to make sure light armor melee characters can be competitive. Some of the changes simultaneously flesh Tempest out with additional flavor.

Core Abilities

• Shield of Whirling Steel: While dual wielding, 2 Shield bonus to Armor Class, Physical Resistance Rating, and Magical Resistance Rating. This increases by +1 for each additional Tempest Core Ability you acquire. If you are a level 1 character, you gain the Two Weapon Fighting feat until you reach character level 2. (Two Weapon Fighting is granted permanently if you take a second Ranger level).
  + PRR/MRR in the cores is really nice wish there was also +Dodge Cap/Max Dex
• Graceful Death: While you are dual wielding, you can use your Dexterity modifier for damage with light melee weapons, +5 Melee Power.
  Nice
• Whirlwind: +5% melee doublestrike chance when dual wielding, +5 Melee Power.
  This is still really lame for a core 18, Make it 10/10 maybe then it will be as good as Lethality o make it 12/5 half as good as the next core. or just remove it and make it a crit extensions of some kind
• Dervish: Passive: +4 Dexterity. +25% chance to doublestrike with your off-hand when dual wielding. +10 Melee Power, Physical Resist Rating, and Magical Resist Rating while wearing light armor or cloth.

Tier One

• Improved Defense: (2/2/2 AP) Shield of Whirling Steel grants +1/2/3 Armor Class, Physical Resist, and Magical Resistance.
• Acrobatic: +1/+2/+3 Balance, Jump and Tumble. Rank 3: You gain +1 Reflex Saving Throws.
  
  • Removed: +2/+4/+6 Armor Class while tumbling.

Tier Two

• Action Boosts: Cost lowered to 1/1/1 AP

Tier Three

• Critical Accuracy: Removed from tree, functionality combined into Critical Mastery.
• Critical Mastery: (1/1/1 AP) +1/2/3 bonus to critical damage and to confirm critical hits.
  Nice
• Storm Dancer: (2 AP) Stance: Absorb 15% of Electrical damage. Your melee attacks deal +1d6 Electrical damage. This damage scales 100% with Melee Power.

Tier Four

• Elaborate Parry: For the next 6/12/18 seconds, you gain Dodge, Maximum Dodge and maximum dexterity bonus to light armor, equal to your Dexterity Modifier. Cooldown: 90 seconds
  
  • The old Elaborate Parry didn't have a good fit anywhere for anyone. It wasn't a good "panic button", since you had to build up charges. Getting to maximum charges was possible but a chore, and you couldn't keep them for very long. This ability is now a strong panic button for dedicated Dexterity builds, capable of reaching very high Dodge for brief periods. It's still potentially useful for other builds as long as they include moderate Dexterity in their overall build. This also builds into the theme of Tempest as an generally mobile and evasive melee combatant.
  
  I hate things with this long a cooldown especially defensive abilities
  
• Critical Damage: Removed from tree, functionality combined into Critical Mastery.
• Storm Tempest: (2 AP) Passive. Upgrades Storm Dancer Electrical damage absorption to 30% (instead of 15%). Upgrades melee attacks to deal +2d6 Electrical damage (instead of 1d6).

Tier Five

• A Thousand Cuts: Melee Dual Wielding Attack. Deals +1/+3/+5(W) damage. You gain +15/+30/+45 doublestrike, +15/30/45 Melee Power, 15 seconds. Cooldown: 90 seconds.
  
  • Gives more room for beneficial Doublestrike from other abilities, increases basic damage, synergy with other abilities that scale with Melee Power, slightly reduces lag with lower Doublestrike.
  
  Please add 5 more seconds up time 45*20/90 = 10 making it a 10/10 over time. At 15 its 7.5/7.5 over time 10/10 is more appropriate for the defining ability of a tree which this should be given the lack of crit extension
  
• Dual Perfection: (2 AP) Your off hand weapon now adds your full attribute damage modifier. (For instance, if you have 30 Strength, you'll gain +10 damage with your offhand weapon, like your main hand weapon.)
  Thank you!!!
• Whirling Blades: (2 AP) +3 to hit and damage when dual wielding.

Thanks for your thoughts and feedback.

comments in colors

[EllisDee37]

A Thousand Cuts still looks terrible to me. In terms of melee clickies, I won't even consider taking anything with a longer cooldown than 15 seconds. And 15 seconds is pushing it. Change it to a different DPS effect that has a 15-second cooldown, making it the single-target dps effect of choice where Dance of Death is the AoE dps effect of choice.

You could even make Thousand Cuts and Dance of Death share a cooldown to prevent stacking with each other if you like. Totally fine by me. But 90 seconds? That means I'll never, ever use it except for exactly one time during boss fights. That's just awful; a tier 5 clicky ability that I only ever use once per quest? Super weaksauce.

EDIT: In terms of crit profile bonuses, what about the idea of adding +1 crit range and multiplier to your offhand weapon only? Maybe the ML18 core.

[EllisDee37]

For a single-target 15-second Thousand Cuts, how about something like:


A Thousand Cuts: Melee Dual Wielding Attack. Deals +1/+3/+5(W) damage. You gain +5/+15/+25 doublestrike and bypass 5%/15%/25% fortification for 12 seconds. Cooldown: 15 seconds. (Shares a cooldown with Dance of Death.)

Compare this to the tier TWO Quick Strike in acrobat:

Quick Strike: Melee Quarterstaff Attack: Deals +1/+2/+3[W] damage. You gain a 5%/15%/25% Morale bonus to melee doublestrike for 10 seconds. (Cooldown: 18/15/12 seconds)


Maybe my proposed Thousand Cuts would need a touch more buffing to justify the difference between tier 5 and tier 2? Maybe add in 3/6/10 melee power as well?

[Propane]

A few thoughts…


Core – Add some noticeable defense – don’t forget STR builds.

Whirling Steel – 5 to AC/PR/MR at T1, + 2-3 per core
Dervish +4 DEX & + 4 STR

Tier One

Improved Defense 3, 5, 10 to all per rank
Acrobat - +1 Reflex per rank

Tier Five

I would like to see the auto crit attack from DWS – Melee only + 1 crit modifier – 10 sec cool down

[DevilYouKnow]

I love it ! Thanks very much.

[Hafeal]

With my first look, I like the changes.

I would go along with the suggestion for a crit extension; but, I would understand if the goal is to up DPS v crit profiles.

If you do not want to give a straight crit profile, what about:

1) an enhancement = "free feat" such as the option to use any single handed weapon in your main hand without penalty (i.e,. Bastard Sword, Khopesh, Dwarven War Axe, Kama), this effectively gives more access to a greater crit range without having to use a feat; OR

2) the ability to use over-sized weapons in an upper tier.

As I think about it, this remodel of Ranger would have me strongly thinking about a Dex based Ranger/Rogue build with assassin and tempest abilities.

[CThruTheEgo]

I would agree with others that the offensive benefits do not seem to be enough to keep up with or surpass paladin (or bard). Full damage mod on the offhand is nice because it fits thematically. I do not, however, want to see simply an increased crit profile. Everything is getting that and it's not necessarily thematically appropriate for every build. Thematically, tempest should get more permanent doublestrike, not from a clicky attack with a long cooldown. Even if it's more offhand doublestrike so the tree mixes well with other sources of mainhand doublestrike.

[mezzorco]

I have three things to say.

1. I'm so happy that tempests now have full stat on offhand! And the stance too, it's really nice!

2. I feel that this tree is a bit too expensive.
For example, on T2 there is +10 prr for 6 APs, while the same enhancement in warpriest costs 3 APs.
The same can be said for Improved Defense, 6 APs for +3 prr/mrr is a bit much, expecially when considering that it contends with Improved Reaction, a good choice for 3 APs.
Also, I don't understand if you are removing Whirling Blades from T1-T4 and placing the T5 one instead, or if the T5 one is in addition to them: if you're removing them, then good job as it frees up some APs, thus rendering moot-ish my point.

3. Thousand Cuts.
Doublestrike is thematic, but unfortunately doesn't synergize well with TWF, since it only applies to main hand.
Let's assume a pure tempest has ~35% doublestrike for math easiness (9% EPL, 5% tempest, 5% PTWF, 3% twist, item) and 35% offhand doublestrike (PTWF and capstone).
So he's hitting 2.7 times per swing. When activating Thousand Cuts, he's hitting 3.15 times per swing, just 16% more.
While melee power definitely will help here, I find awkward this imbalance between main hand and offhand.
Maybe it could grant 30% doublestrike, 30% offhand doublestrike and 30 melee power. Don't know, opinions?

EDIT: 4. Capstone could love STR builds a bit more

[HuneyMunster]

Given that Stalker does not have a Crit extension and Tempest does not have a Crit extension is it save to assume the design decision to leave Rangers as the only melee class with out a Crit extension of some kind has been made and is final?

Barbarian = Critical Rage, Death Frenzy (19-20 +1)
Fighter = Keen Edge
Paladins = Holy Sword
Monks = Earth Stance (19-20 +1), Ninja Mastery, Staff Spec, Violence Begets Violence (not very good but its something)
Rogues = Knife spec, Staff Spec
Bards = Swashbuckler, Exploit Weakness
Ranger = Nothing

You forgot one that does through form, but not enhancements
Druid = Winter Wolf x3 19-20, Dire Bear x3 20

Also
Arti melee based Battle Engineer = Nothing

And you could also include just for completion

Cleric/FvS Warpriest = Nothing
Wiz/Sorc Tempest Knight = Nothing
Warlock Enlightened Spirit = Nothing, but doesn't need it.

[Vargouille]

Also, I don't understand if you are removing Whirling Blades from T1-T4 and placing the T5 one instead, or if the T5 one is in addition to them

Clarifying: Unmentioned enhancements are remaining the same. Whirling blades in lower tiers still exist.

[sjbb87]

Core Abilities

• Shield of Whirling Steel: While dual wielding, 2 Shield bonus to Armor Class, Physical Resistance Rating, and Magical Resistance Rating. This increases by +1 for each additional Tempest Core Ability you acquire. If you are a level 1 character, you gain the Two Weapon Fighting feat until you reach character level 2. (Two Weapon Fighting is granted permanently if you take a second Ranger level).
  That's amazing
  
• Graceful Death: While you are dual wielding, you can use your Dexterity modifier for damage with light melee weapons, +5 Melee Power.
  ok
  
• Whirlwind: +10% melee doublestrike chance when dual wielding, +5 Melee Power.
  5% are too low, maybe 10% melee doublestrike
  
  
• Dervish: Passive: +4 Dexterity and +4 Strength . +25% chance to doublestrike with your off-hand when dual wielding. +10 Melee Power, Physical Resist Rating, and Magical Resist Rating while wearing light armor or cloth.
  We have Strength build to tempest too
  

Tier One

• Improved Defense: (2/2/2 AP) Shield of Whirling Steel grants +1/2/3 Armor Class, Physical Resist, and Magical Resistance.
  Deflect Arrows it can trigger once every 4/3/2 seconds removed?
  

Tier Two

• Action Boosts: Cost lowered to 1/1/1 AP
  ok

Tier Three

• Critical Accuracy: Removed from tree, functionality combined into Critical Mastery.
  ok
  
  
• Critical Mastery: (1/1/1 AP) +1/2/3 bonus to critical damage and to confirm critical hits.
  ok
  
• Storm Dancer: (2 AP) Stance: Absorb 15% of Electrical damage. Your melee attacks deal +1d6 Electrical damage. This damage scales 100% with Melee Power.
  ok
  

Tier Four

• Elaborate Parry: For the next 6/12/18 seconds, you gain Dodge, Maximum Dodge and maximum dexterity bonus to light armor, equal to your Dexterity Modifier. Cooldown: 90 seconds
  Nice,but the cooldown is high
  
  
• Critical Damage: Removed from tree, functionality combined into Critical Mastery.
• Storm Tempest: (2 AP) Passive. Upgrades Storm Dancer Electrical damage absorption to 30% (instead of 15%). Upgrades melee attacks to deal +2d6 Electrical damage (instead of 1d6).
  nice
  

Tier Five

[LIST][*]A Thousand Cuts: Melee Dual Wielding Attack. Deals +1/+3/+5(W) damage. You gain +15/+30/+45 doublestrike, +15/30/45 Melee Power, 15 seconds. Cooldown: 90 seconds.
Remains weak, you need to improve dps. I believe that adding 10% attack speed as passive would be good.



[*] Dual Perfection: (2 AP) Your off hand weapon now adds your full attribute damage modifier. (For instance, if you have 30 Strength, you'll gain +10 damage with your offhand weapon, like your main hand weapon.)
nice
[*]Whirling Blades: (2 AP) +3 to hit and damage when dual wielding and gain +1 critical damage multiplier while two-weapon fighting.

Very weak, give more bonus.


Assassin Have 15~20 x4 with Daggers and Kukris and Assassinate


Thief-Acrobat
Cartwheel Charge: After tumbling, you gain a +2 Morale bonus to Strength and Dexterity for 12 seconds.
Passively provides: +2 to maximum dodge, and +20% Doublestrike.

Staff Specialization: You gain a +1 Competence bonus to Critical Damage Multiplier and Threat Range with Quarterstaves.



And tempest got it, really?

[Grailhawk]

You forgot one that does through form, but not enhancements
Druid = Winter Wolf x3 19-20, Dire Bear x3 20

Also
Arti melee based Battle Engineer = Nothing

And you could also include just for completion

Cleric/FvS Warpriest = Nothing
Wiz/Sorc Tempest Knight = Nothing
Warlock Enlightened Spirit = Nothing, but doesn't need it.

All of those are caster classes (so are bards but ...) dipping into melee, I wouldn't expect them to have the best of the best melee abilities.