Same problem with some quests.

[Shavron]

So i tried doing The Church and the Cult quest on Elite only to fail at the first door as i think it needs more search skill than i have.

Same thing with The Keeper's Sanctuary on Hard.

My search skill is 9 "paladin first life" with all my gear and a potion of fox cunning.

Why does a quest have an obstacle like this that prevent me to advance the quest?

Optional doors are no problem but to prevent me from finishing the main objective and wasting my time trying to do a quest that i have no hope of doing?
Tough mobs and traps are no problem at my current level but this screams bad design.

And i did try to host a party but no one showed after 2 hours but that's not my main issue.

[DDOKillingMachine]

this screams bad design.

No, it doesn't. It would only scream bad design if those quests were required to flag for something like GH or the Shroud. They are not. Not all quests should be soloable. But in this case, you might try looking in the Auction House for Detect Secret Doors.

Simple solution to a non-problem.

[Enoach]

All quests designed during the time when this Quest was created was based on a Balanced Party of Four. What this means is you need to compensate for the lack of primary skills that would normally be needed when questing. I'm honestly surprised that your LFM went unanswered for 2 hours.

Now that being said I believe the DC is not over 20.

You don't specify what bonus you are getting from gear or if you are getting the +2 or just +1 from the int buff

Things to try.
1. Find Secret Door (First level spell so has a low UMD)
2. Heroism
3. Search Item
4. Rogue Hireling (I believe at that level it is 10 to 25 TP) <- you will also get the Trap bonus

Now something that you will want to have on your list is to get the Voice of the Master (Deleria's Series end reward) and Mantle of the World Shaper (Threnal Series end reward). Wearing both of these at the same time gives you DM Vision (True Seeing) which will help you find these types of doors.

[blerkington]

Tough mobs and traps are no problem at my current level but this screams bad design.

Hi,

I don't think an underprepared character being unable to deal with the occasional curveball like a secret door is bad design. As people have pointed out, there are ways to deal with secret doors, and the quest is only one of a few like that.

I'd be far more inclined to agree with the statement that a first life character being able to handle all combat and survive traps on the hardest difficulty setting available in the game is bad design.

It's really a matter of perspective.

Thanks.

[FranOhmsford]

No, it doesn't. It would only scream bad design if those quests were required to flag for something like GH or the Shroud. They are not. Not all quests should be soloable. But in this case, you might try looking in the Auction House for Detect Secret Doors.

Simple solution to a non-problem.

Standard DSD items don't work in Keeper's Sanctuary! {A 10th Lvl Wand might if you have the UMD for it or can cast the actual spell!}

I'm guessing it also doesn't work in Church and the Cult anymore.

This is because the Devs decided that DSD was too powerful and nerfed it HARD!
They nerfed True Seeing as well but that should still work in Base Lvl 9 quests.


It's not Bad design as BOTH of these quests were built when DDO was meant to be a Group Game and you were supposed to have a Trapper in Group!

What it actually is is the Implementation of Nerfs without looking at the whole picture and adapting certain quests to fit those nerfs!


Church and the Cult's first Secret Door should in no way have a Search DC of more than 10 {I don't know if the OP was counting a Heroism Pot on his Score but if not Heroism Pots are easily available and should be in your inventory at all times!}.
A Pot of Fox's is actually only +2 to Search and stacks with a Pot of Heroism for a total of +4!

Keeper's Sanctuary seriously needs to no longer require Haunted Library to be completed before you can pick it up!
Again the Search DCs shouldn't be that high as these are quest required Secret Doors NOT Optionals!



P.S. It might be expensive for a newbie but +6 Int items are available as early as Lvl 9 and will give +3 to search {they won't stack with Fox's though as they're the same higher bonus}.
You can use one of these as a swap in when needed rather than drinking Fox's Pots.

[AbyssalMage]

So i tried doing The Church and the Cult quest on Elite only to fail at the first door as i think it needs more search skill than i have.

Same thing with The Keeper's Sanctuary on Hard.

My search skill is 9 "paladin first life" with all my gear and a potion of fox cunning.

Why does a quest have an obstacle like this that prevent me to advance the quest?

Optional doors are no problem but to prevent me from finishing the main objective and wasting my time trying to do a quest that i have no hope of doing?
Tough mobs and traps are no problem at my current level but this screams bad design.

And i did try to host a party but no one showed after 2 hours but that's not my main issue.

I've finished both quests with a skill relative to yours ( I want to say lower but unwilling to commit to that seeings I am not in game. I know I have 0 points in the search skill, no tomes, but do have ship buffs).

Maybe this is a "new" problem. By "new" I mean bad programming that only shows up on certain instances or possibly something they broke in the last 1 or 2 updates (U27.1 or the recent emergency patch). Sorry it was a roadblock.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

If only there was a way to bring other players along with you so that someone else could help you find the door...

[Seikojin]

So i tried doing The Church and the Cult quest on Elite only to fail at the first door as i think it needs more search skill than i have.

Same thing with The Keeper's Sanctuary on Hard.

My search skill is 9 "paladin first life" with all my gear and a potion of fox cunning.

Why does a quest have an obstacle like this that prevent me to advance the quest?

Optional doors are no problem but to prevent me from finishing the main objective and wasting my time trying to do a quest that i have no hope of doing?
Tough mobs and traps are no problem at my current level but this screams bad design.

And i did try to host a party but no one showed after 2 hours but that's not my main issue.

I am sorry you couldn't find that door as a paladin and no lfm's allowed you to get the search you needed to find the door.

However searching is not a paladins forte, so I can see the difficulty on elite being appropriate.

You could have opened the ddo store and got a gold seal rogue hireling iirc.

Not every quest was designed to be done with each individual class. So if a main line path requires a rogue, you will either have to get a rogue or skip that quest until you can get a rogue. Pen and paper works like this, and so does ddo.

[Qhualor]

So i tried doing The Church and the Cult quest on Elite only to fail at the first door as i think it needs more search skill than i have.

Same thing with The Keeper's Sanctuary on Hard.

My search skill is 9 "paladin first life" with all my gear and a potion of fox cunning.

Why does a quest have an obstacle like this that prevent me to advance the quest?

Optional doors are no problem but to prevent me from finishing the main objective and wasting my time trying to do a quest that i have no hope of doing?
Tough mobs and traps are no problem at my current level but this screams bad design.

And i did try to host a party but no one showed after 2 hours but that's not my main issue.

back when the devs changed detect secret doors, it was supposed to be that any secret door that was required for quest advancement had a low enough search skill. I always bring a rogue hire for those quests for the extra xp, so I wasn't aware those have a high search requirement still. it does need to be fixed.

[FranOhmsford]

I am sorry you couldn't find that door as a paladin and no lfm's allowed you to get the search you needed to find the door.

However searching is not a paladins forte, so I can see the difficulty on elite being appropriate.

You could have opened the ddo store and got a gold seal rogue hireling iirc.

Not every quest was designed to be done with each individual class. So if a main line path requires a rogue, you will either have to get a rogue or skip that quest until you can get a rogue. Pen and paper works like this, and so does ddo.

You also don't HAVE to do every single quest at BB level!

If you can't afford a Gold Seal Rogue you can always go back to that quest at a higher level when you have a +10 Search item or even at Lvl 21 when you can pick up an Epic Rogue Hire for Plat!

back when the devs changed detect secret doors, it was supposed to be that any secret door that was required for quest advancement had a low enough search skill. I always bring a rogue hire for those quests for the extra xp, so I wasn't aware those have a high search requirement still. it does need to be fixed.

This ^!

Qhualor is right - The Devs did state that Secret Doors required for quest completion would be reduced in DC to very low numbers.

However - The OP stated he had 9 Search with Fox's in a Lvl 9 quest - Let's assume the OP was playing that quest on Elite at BB level which would be Lvl 11 and see what the OP could have brought with him:

Int 6 Item - +1 above Fox's
Heroism Pot - +2
+7 Search item - Available at Lvl 5 on random loot - By level 11 this should be easy to find.

So the OP could have got a Search of 19 with relative ease!

There's also http://ddowiki.com/page/True_Seeing_(spell) if the OP has the UMD for Scrolls of it this will find any Secret Door with a DC of 30 or less!
and http://ddowiki.com/page/True_Seeing_(enchantment) which is available as early as Lvl 13 - http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Teraza%27s_Perfect_Sight

[SirValentine]

Keeper's Sanctuary seriously needs to no longer require Haunted Library to be completed before you can pick it up!

There's nothing wrong with having quest chains where you have to do the quests in order. Not sure why you're suggesting to nerf just this one chain.

[Lonnbeimnech]

So i tried doing The Church and the Cult quest on Elite only to fail at the first door as i think it needs more search skill than i have.

Same thing with The Keeper's Sanctuary on Hard.

My search skill is 9 "paladin first life" with all my gear and a potion of fox cunning.

Why does a quest have an obstacle like this that prevent me to advance the quest?

Optional doors are no problem but to prevent me from finishing the main objective and wasting my time trying to do a quest that i have no hope of doing?
Tough mobs and traps are no problem at my current level but this screams bad design.

And i did try to host a party but no one showed after 2 hours but that's not my main issue.

I had a similar problem the other day. Went into keeper's sanctuary on a first life rogue and I couldn't turn undead!

[EllisDee37]

My search skill is 9 "paladin first life" with all my gear and a potion of fox cunning.

First life paladins don't make good trappers, or even searchers. 9 search is super low for a level 9 quest.

[FranOhmsford]

There's nothing wrong with having quest chains where you have to do the quests in order. Not sure why you're suggesting to nerf just this one chain.

Chain?

You're kidding right?

Keeper's Sanctuary is in Delera's Graveyard - It's a Delera's side-quest!
That you can't pick it up until you've completed Haunted Library is an aberration!


And sorry but removing the need to flag for a quest that doesn't give anything special is most definitely not a "Nerf"!
People are still going to run Haunted Library! It's a pretty popular quest! But maybe a few more might run Keeper's Sanctuary too if they didn't HAVE to run HL first!

[Qhualor]

Chain?

You're kidding right?

Keeper's Sanctuary is in Delera's Graveyard - It's a Delera's side-quest!
That you can't pick it up until you've completed Haunted Library is an aberration!


And sorry but removing the need to flag for a quest that doesn't give anything special is most definitely not a "Nerf"!
People are still going to run Haunted Library! It's a pretty popular quest! But maybe a few more might run Keeper's Sanctuary too if they didn't HAVE to run HL first!

It's part of a storyline. Something I would like to see more of but only seen in low levels. It's just like you have to do Baudrys chain before doing HIPS before doing RI quests.

[Shavron]

Yah i get the idea.
I used a +5 search item and have nothing that give +int because i didn't think that i would need one.

+1 from voice of the master and +2 hero pots and that's all i can remember.
Fact is it's frustrating because it's a waste of time and frankly it's useless.
I hate this quest any way i was doing it for favor.

Also i did search the auction house for a +7 or more search but coudn't find more than the +5 that i have.

when i join a guild i will do it with guild mates.

[Coyopa]

Yah i get the idea.
I used a +5 search item and have nothing that give +int because i didn't think that i would need one.

+1 from voice of the master and +2 hero pots and that's all i can remember.
Fact is it's frustrating because it's a waste of time and frankly it's useless.
I hate this quest any way i was doing it for favor.

Also i did search the auction house for a +7 or more search but coudn't find more than the +5 that i have.

when i join a guild i will do it with guild mates.

Yep. You lost the whole two or three minutes in that quest! I mean, imagine all the things you could have done in that time!

[FranOhmsford]

Yah i get the idea.
I used a +5 search item and have nothing that give +int because i didn't think that i would need one.

Then that was your mistake - Even at Lvl 9 {the base level of these two quests} a +7 Search item shouldn't be hard to find.

+1 from voice of the master and +2 hero pots and that's all i can remember.
Fact is it's frustrating because it's a waste of time and frankly it's useless.
I hate this quest any way i was doing it for favor.

Doing it for Favour? What Level are you? If you're running these two quests for Favour then I'd assume you must be at least Lvl 18 - Just wait till 21 and grab an Epic Rogue Hire for Plat!

Also i did search the auction house for a +7 or more search but coudn't find more than the +5 that i have.

Ouch - Bad Auction House!

Even so...You've stated you were doing these quests for Favour so wait till you're higher level and do them then!

when i join a guild i will do it with guild mates.

Lol - You don't know much about Guilds in DDO then!

Don't expect your Guild mates to even be at the same level as you, to want to do that quest when you want to do it OR even to have any Guild mates online at the same time as you!

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I had a similar problem the other day. Went into keeper's sanctuary on a first life rogue and I couldn't turn undead!

lol

[lyrecono]

So i tried doing The Church and the Cult quest on Elite only to fail at the first door as i think it needs more search skill than i have.

Same thing with The Keeper's Sanctuary on Hard.

My search skill is 9 "paladin first life" with all my gear and a potion of fox cunning.

Why does a quest have an obstacle like this that prevent me to advance the quest?

Optional doors are no problem but to prevent me from finishing the main objective and wasting my time trying to do a quest that i have no hope of doing?
Tough mobs and traps are no problem at my current level but this screams bad design.

And i did try to host a party but no one showed after 2 hours but that's not my main issue.

sight, this is wrong on so many levels

First, a first lifer shouldn't be doing quests on elite that were designed to be run with more party members in mind.
Second, you could have worked around it, detect secret doors or the DM set works as well.
Third, you imply that you're over level, did you keep that in mind whille posting an lfm?
when you use detect secret doors or true seeing scrolls, make sure you take of any armor (if aplicable), armor has a skill penalty to search and arcane spell failure on some scrolls (for some reason that is bugged)

It doesn't scream bad design but bad assumptions on your side