Axel's DDO Channel: The Five Most Underrated Adventure Packs

[axel15810]

Take a break from running the new content and click HERE to listen to me give my argument for the 5 most underrated adventure packs in DDO!

As always, thanks for visiting my youtube channel. If you'd like to check out my prior videos you can find them on my youtube homepage HERE.

[FranOhmsford]

This is the reply I posted to Youtube:

Lordsmarch isn't under-rated at all! It's rated highly by pretty much everyone and just because it's not in the top 5 {or even 10} must have packs doesn't make it under-rated!

3BC was the most under-rated pack in the game but has been significantly upgraded and has a far stronger rating now - I'd honestly say it's still quite under-rated though when players still place Delera's {a phenomenally over-rated pack} ahead of it!

Sorrowdusk? You're not serious? It's one thing to rate a pack higher than others because you personally like that pack but Sorrowdusk isn't under-rated! It's rated pretty much where it belongs!
I don't dislike Sorrowdusk Isle! I personally feel it's a weaker copy of Tangleroot Gorge but that doesn't mean It's bad!
I wouldn't count Tangleroot as under-rated either as I feel it's rating based on objectivity fits quite well with my own subjective liking of the pack.

Storm Horns - No way is Storm Horns prettier than 3 Barrel Cove!
Storm Horns is over-scaled in Heroic, What Goes Up has terrible lag issues and an atrocious purple screen that means you can't see anything that's happening...even your own character!
Again - I'd say that the standard rating for Storm Horns is pretty much spot on - It's highly rated because it's Epic Content and has strong rewards, it's also rated highly by many like yourself who find it pretty {I personally don't like the WoW style collect the mobs rares though!} but it's not rated as a must have pack because it doesn't quite have that Oomph to it that the likes of Vale, GH, Sands, VoN and MotU have.

Reaver's Refuge - One of the single worst packs in the game!
Quests that are vastly over-scaled!
An End-Quest that should have been a Raid and is virtually impossible to get a group for!
Loot that is so outdated it's unbelievable!
Only 4 total quests in the pack!
A Slayer Zone where the maximum number of kills per instance is below 50 {more like 30!} - Soami Gardens!
Quest issues that make learning them solo untenable and again groups are incredibly hard to come by!
And worst of all - DO NOT BIND YOUR SPIRIT TO REAVER'S REFUGE! Getting there is bad enough but getting back to civilisation afterwards is a Pain in the Posterior!

Now I actually do enjoy the Eerie Forest Slayer Zone but unfortunately it's the only slayer zone in the game that still cannot be reset!
Mt Reysalon and Aussircaex's Valley are only OK and nothing special.

Over-all Reaver's Refuge is literally in the bottom 5 packs I wouldn't recommend to anyone!
UNLESS they Epic and seriously upgrade/rebuild it that is!



You can't state something is under {or indeed over} rated just on a subjective opinion either - There needs to be an objective measurement of where it would fit in to a list.
There's a lot of must have packs now and calling packs under-rated because you like them personally but they're not on the must have list is wrong.

With the above said:
My Top 5 Under-rated packs would be:
1) 3 Barrel Cove
Still under-rated even though it's now much much stronger objectively and still the prettiest zone in the game with a wide variety of quests!
I personally feel it should be added to the Must Have list by virtue of it having Epic Quests and an Epic Slayer Zone now.
2) Sands of Menechtarun.
I personally feel this should definitely be ahead of Vale of Twilight in today's game and maybe even ahead of Gianthold and Vault of Night in the Must Have list!
Leaving it only behind MotU and Orchard of the Macabre.
3) Catacombs
Always vastly under-rated - This once was a Must Have pack thanks to Silver Flame Potions but even then was rarely mentioned when people asked what packs they should buy!
Thankfully no longer a must have but still a very strong pick!
4) Restless Isles
Yes this one could be considered subjective as it's mainly a personal love of the Slayer Zone but I will give objective reasoning:
The Slayer Zone is basically a quest in it's own right! {And one of the top 5 Slayer Zones in the game for looks!}
The two quests are actually very well made!
The Loot is far stronger than people give it credit for!
The Pre-Raid would have VoN 5 popularity if it was easier to get to!
The main problem is the difficulty in flagging and getting a Raid Group together. Oh and the Raid itself having a really bad one player does everything system. - Yes this pack has similar issues to Reaver's Refuge but the reason I consider it under-rated is because many consider it the single worst pack in the game whereas I personally find it to be much better than that!
Hardly a must have pack and not in the top 10 or anything but stronger than many give it credit for!
If it was Epicced it would immediately become a Must Have!
5) Threnal
OK yes - This pack has so many issues it's not worth listing them all!
BUT
It's got a bad rep based on issues that have been in the main removed now!
Still not in anyone's top 10 but this pack is a lot better now than it was in the past!
Also: New atrocious packs like Wheloon and Druid's Deep have pushed it up the list!

[eldersinger]

Hmmm. I'm not arguing with your selections; in fact, I don't own most of them, so I can't have an opinion. I am, however, arguing with your reasoning. If you're going to lampoon Axel for "calling packs under-rated because you like them personally but they're not on the must have list", you must then, as you put it have "an objective measure of where it would fit in a list" if you're going to disagree.

I'm sure you can understand then that I'm fairly confused when your argument is:

I personally feel
[snip]
I personally feel
[snip]
Yes this one could be considered subjective as it's mainly a personal love of the Slayer Zone but I will give objective reasoning:...
[snip including non-objective reasoning]

Objective reasoning would include data that can't be refuted as opposed to opinions that can, using something like:
1) avg. exp/min
2) quests/turbinePoint
3) Comparison of exp available, say, run everything once on heroic normal w/o exp boosts, etc.
4) Favor available

and certainly not arguments about aesthetics, LFM patterns, etc. Unless, of course, you either kept close watch on LFMs and took data to support that point or took a credible poll of DDO players about their preferences. Without that, the argument is subjective, not objective.

[FranOhmsford]

Hmmm. I'm not arguing with your selections; in fact, I don't own most of them, so I can't have an opinion. I am, however, arguing with your reasoning. If you're going to lampoon Axel for "calling packs under-rated because you like them personally but they're not on the must have list", you must then, as you put it have "an objective measure of where it would fit in a list" if you're going to disagree.

I'm sure you can understand then that I'm fairly confused when your argument is:

When you snip specific quotes while ignoring what I say AFTER each of those quotes then yes you could get confused!

However if you read on after each of those quotes you'll note that I did state objective reasoning for all of them!


Also: I didn't lampoon Axel - I simply gave reasoning why his statement that his personal liking of the quests he mentioned could not outweigh the objective reasons {loot, xp etc.} why other packs are rated higher by the majority!

The problem with his premis was that a personal subjective recommendation is just that {Personal and Subjective} and therefore the person you're recommending those packs too may not like them at all!
He/she may have completely different personal tastes - Many people consider Vale of Twilight incredibly beautiful, whereas I personally much prefer the starkness of Menechtarun while I've even heard and seen multiple people say they love the look of Gianthold {which I personally loathe!}.

I did state that I love the look of 3 Barrel and Restless Isles but I didn't use that as my ONLY reasoning!

I did state that I personally wouldn't place Storm Horns ahead of 3BC for looks but literally the ONLY reasons given by the OP for liking Storm Horns was the looks and What Goes Up {which I also disagreed with for other reasons!}.


P.S.

The Loot is far stronger than people give it credit for!

is NOT Subjective - Go look that loot up!

The two quests are actually very well made!

- Also NOT subjective - Those two quests were very well made! They're substantially different to literally any other quest you care to mention {yes the look of Ghola Fan is similar to Whisperdoom and Dreams of Insanity but the quest ISN'T!}

The Pre-Raid would have VoN 5 popularity if it was easier to get to!

Is an outright FACT! Remember that once you have your sigil you have it forever - The ONLY reasons this raid isn't run every day is that it's not Epic! If it wasn't for the fact that The Foothold cannot be got to while in a Raid Group without Greater Teleport and that you have to run quite a distance through a gated slayer zone to get to it the Heroic Raid would be run with the same regularity as VoN 5 is {VoN 5 Heroic isn't actually that popular either as the Epic XP for 1st time completion makes it a good idea to skip it so Twilight Forge could even outdo Heroic VoN 5 given easier access!}.

Hardly a must have pack and not in the top 10 or anything but stronger than many give it credit for!

I specifically stated that I wasn't placing it higher than it's worth! Just that it's not as bad as it's made out to be!

If it was Epicced it would immediately become a Must Have!

Go on...Tell me this isn't the truth! Remember that flagging is a once and done thing for this raid and given VoN 5 like XP this Raid would be run every 3 days at least by those farming destinies/E-TRs!

[FranOhmsford]

Objective reasoning would include data that can't be refuted as opposed to opinions that can, using something like:
1) avg. exp/min
2) quests/turbinePoint
3) Comparison of exp available, say, run everything once on heroic normal w/o exp boosts, etc.
4) Favor available

and certainly not arguments about aesthetics, LFM patterns, etc. Unless, of course, you either kept close watch on LFMs and took data to support that point or took a credible poll of DDO players about their preferences. Without that, the argument is subjective, not objective.

Lol - No!

I don't have to spend days/months collating data to prove my reasoning based on obvious and blatant facts that anyone can see in game!

I also don't have to take a poll {not sure what you'd call "credible" here either} as polls are regularly wrong and sometimes outright specious anyway - Just look at Exit polls for governmental elections!


As for XP vs Favour vs Loot vs Aesthetics vs Any other specifics of each pack - That's EXACTLY my point!
And again - These things are easy enough to look up - Take Delera's for instance: Ask anyone to name 3 pieces of valuable loot for Delera's and 100% of players who know the pack will give you the exact same two while maybe 30% will state the UMD necklace {Golden Cartouche which actually isn't all that great for newbies} as the third while the other 70% won't have a clue! {Monks may add the Wraps I suppose}.
The quests are amongst the most monotonous in the game with minimal differences and the exact same mobs throughout!
The XP used to be amongst the best in the game but is nothing special now thanks to other quests being upgraded!
The Favour is substantially useless in-game and only required if you want to get the 5k favour tome {then again that requires you own EVERY SINGLE PACK IN THE GAME anyway!}.
So literally the ONLY reason people recommend it still is Voice of the Master - They may as well recommend Threnal instead - The rest of the loot in Threnal was significantly upgraded, The XP is fine for the level, The quests definitely aren't monotonous though they can be extremely annoying! BUT Threnal has the exact same reason for getting it as Delera's {+5% to XP!}.

Oh and Mantle's an outright better option than Voice for many too! {Not many decent cloaks out there}.

[dunklezhan]

Axel - agree with all your picks although I confess I don't run Reavers because frankly I've always found it too hard - I do tend to go get the explorers for each though. Whether they are 'underrun' packs in general I'm not sure. 3BC and Lordsmarch always seem popular. Lordsmarch has always been popular, its one of the few sets of quests I almost never have problems getting a group for. 3BC has only got popular with the mainstream since the loot pass - but I always played it, and for more or less identical reasons to you. Sorrowdusk I really like the second half but the first half is repetitive - though at least it isn't tangleroot repetitive (another area with a lovel explorer though).

And Stormhorns? Oh, Stormhorns, how do I love thee? Let me count the ways... second thoughts, let's not count the ways. Let's just say that if I could take a tent and live there, I'd say goodbye to Blighty in a heartbeat. What an amazing piece of work that area is.

Also - I understand it would have taken more time, but it would lovely if you could redo the video with sample footage from your favorite parts of those quest packs.

[EllisDee37]

My top 5 underrated packs in level order:

Sharn Syndicate
Nice change of pace in terms of setting and enemies at that level range, and the best source of craftable BTA accessories and armor. (No weapons, sadly.)

Restless isles
Getting to the quests isn't as bad as it first looks; generally what I do now each life is make a single run to both quest-givers, then rebuff and run the quests since now I can teleport to both. Ghola Fan is a great quest with an excellent end fight. Slavers is worse, but the more you run it the better it gets. Never set foot in the pre-raid or raid proper, but I've heard good things.

Harbinger of Madness
Great atmosphere and a fantastic end fight in the last quest.

Reaver's Reach
Fun and interesting quests with clever puzzles and tricky fights, though the loot is comically obsolete due to changes to the game.

Secrets of the Artificers
Fun and interesting quest design, plus rocket boots!

[axel15810]

Like I said in the video this is just my opinion. This is a completely subjective list and I would expect most everyone to have their own list that's different from mine. It's just for fun, the goal here was not to create a 100% accurate list. That would impossible to create regardless. The main factors I considered when rating these packs are fun, feel and lore which is not something quantifiable in the first place.

Axel - agree with all your picks although I confess I don't run Reavers because frankly I've always found it too hard - I do tend to go get the explorers for each though. Whether they are 'underrun' packs in general I'm not sure. 3BC and Lordsmarch always seem popular. Lordsmarch has always been popular, its one of the few sets of quests I almost never have problems getting a group for. 3BC has only got popular with the mainstream since the loot pass - but I always played it, and for more or less identical reasons to you. Sorrowdusk I really like the second half but the first half is repetitive - though at least it isn't tangleroot repetitive (another area with a lovel explorer though).

And Stormhorns? Oh, Stormhorns, how do I love thee? Let me count the ways... second thoughts, let's not count the ways. Let's just say that if I could take a tent and live there, I'd say goodbye to Blighty in a heartbeat. What an amazing piece of work that area is.

Also - I understand it would have taken more time, but it would lovely if you could redo the video with sample footage from your favorite parts of those quest packs.

The reason I listed attack on stormreach is while I agree it's not as rarely run as some of the others I've listed, I still feel it's underrated because Gianthold and Necro 4 are around the same level range and tend to overshadow it in popularity from my personal experiences. Plus I feel the attack on stormreach quests are just that good to warrant it being on there. Although it was close.

I would have liked to put gameplay footage from each pack in there too. But it would have taken a few hours to record and edit that footage which I just didn't have time for yesterday.

[dunklezhan]

Like I said in the video this is just my opinion. This is a completely subjective list and I would expect most everyone to have their own list that's different from mine. It's just for fun, the goal here was not to create a 100% accurate list. That would impossible to create regardless. The main factors I considered when rating these packs are fun, feel and lore which is not something quantifiable in the first place.

I understood this. I hope I didn't come across as thinking otherwise!

The reason I listed attack on stormreach is while I agree it's not as rarely run as some of the others I've listed, I still feel it's underrated because Gianthold and Necro 4 are around the same level range and tend to overshadow it in popularity from my personal experiences. Plus I feel the attack on stormreach quests are just that good to warrant it being on there. Although it was close.

Agree 100%, I just got the impression you were saying it was underrun, probably not paying enough attention .

I would have liked to put gameplay footage from each pack in there too. But it would have taken a few hours to record and edit that footage which I just didn't have time for yesterday.

I totally get that. Just saying it would be nice if it got a revisit when you did have time. Or revisit each one separately so you can spend some time really highlighting what you think are the best bits.

Appreciate anything you do video-wise Axel - it's always good to have videos to point people at when they say 'why are you still playing that old game?'

[axel15810]

I understood this. I hope I didn't come across as thinking otherwise!

No you didn't - I wasn't referring to you with that specific comment, I was referring to a few of the posts above yours Maybe I should have quoted some of the others posts for clarification.

[dunklezhan]

No you didn't - I wasn't referring to you with that specific comment, I was referring to a few of the posts above yours Maybe I should have quoted some of the others posts for clarification.

Ah right. I saw some but Fran's in particular I can't say registered (it's nothing against you Fran personally, I swear! I just find all the exclamation marks you use make it really hard for me to absorb your posts Frequently it just doesn't go "in". I do try, honest).

I did just see Ellis' list though. And I agree about those too (though same comments from me on Reavers Reach. I think RR loot sucks, and always have so that plus the difficulty for my skill level just puts me off).

I'm really not sure I can stick to just 5 underrated packs...

I mean, has anyone mentioned IQ yet? Now those are some inventive, distinctive quests that I never see anyone playing anymore. With yours and Ellis' list combined that makes a top 10 already and I haven't even thought about it that hard yet.

[EllisDee37]

With yours and Ellis' list combined that makes a top 10 already and I haven't even thought about it that hard yet.

Top 9. We both picked Reaver's Reach.

[DocHawkeye]

There are 70 kills in Aussie's Valley.
85 on Mount Reyselon
70 in the Soami Gardens.

Concidering how small they are, that's pretty dense.