Avenging Cleave

[jetster11]

I am going to be spending some time in a Paladin Alt and was looking over Avenging Cleave and I noticed it says "1% vulnerability stacks up to 20 times". This would be great but this only lasts 3 seconds and the cool down on Avenging Cleave is 5 seconds. Is it even possible to get more than one percent vulnerability? If this is this case, why even have this as feature and is this a "broken" enhancement?

Thanks for any insights.

[Vargouille]

Vulnerability can be inflicted from a variety of sources across different classes and even equipment. It is generally more powerful with a group who can build it up (though of course it is still a 1% increase in damage even with just one character in this case).

[jetster11]

Thanks for comment Vargouille, but ability to achieve 1% vulnerability seems like a really weak T5 ability. Comparing this to basically all other stacking features in the game, why wouldn't this be set up to stack for the paladin in and of his/ her own attacks. I do not believe this was how the developers saw this as functioning, but unless a developer comments on this, I guess we will never know.

[psykopeta]

Thanks for comment Vargouille, but ability to achieve 1% vulnerability seems like a really weak T5 ability. Comparing this to basically all other stacking features in the game, why wouldn't this be set up to stack for the paladin in and of his/ her own attacks. I do not believe this was how the developers saw this as functioning, but unless a developer comments on this, I guess we will never know.

:O

vargouille is a developer, just saying

xD

and his answer has been "it's supposed to help building stacks of vulnerability, not being the only way to do so"

which, as you said, makes avenging cleave not an awesome t5

however pally doesn't need an awesome t5 imho

[Vargouille]

The strongest part of Avenging Cleave is, of course, the ability to attack multiple enemies every five seconds.

[Rusty_Can]

I do not believe this was how the developers saw this as functioning, but unless a developer comments on this, I guess we will never know.

I think Vargouille qualifies .....

which, as you said, makes avenging cleave not an awesome t5

Well, Avenging Cleave is basically a Great Cleave which doesn't take a feat slot and paladins are a feat-starved class... plenty of worse T5 stuff around.

[jetster11]

I apologize to Vargouille, I don't post enough on forums so did not realize you are a developer and that you would know about the vulnerability and that this was as itended. I guess I should have realized as the name seemed familiar.

[Impaqt]

Thanks for comment Vargouille, but ability to achieve 1% vulnerability seems like a really weak T5 ability. Comparing this to basically all other stacking features in the game, why wouldn't this be set up to stack for the paladin in and of his/ her own attacks. I do not believe this was how the developers saw this as functioning, but unless a developer comments on this, I guess we will never know.

o.O

When did V get demoted?

Some abilities are designed to work better in a GROUP. gasp.... those evil devs!

[Wh070aa]

The strongest part of Avenging Cleave is, of course, the ability to attack multiple enemies every five seconds.

And that is different than any other AoE attack how? I newer have considered taking it. Or any other 1% debuff ability for that matter. 1% damage increase for 3 seconds does absolutely nothing.

With paladin animations you might as well auto attack with weapon that has glancing blows.

[HuneyMunster]

I think Vargouille qualifies .....




Well, Avenging Cleave is basically a Great Cleave which doesn't take a feat slot and paladins are a feat-starved class... plenty of worse T5 stuff around.

Its better than Great Cleave but +2[W] on its own. Paladins get 3 cleave like abilities including holy retribution which can be powerful even in epic elite content if you build for it on a max strength and charisma build.

[Vargouille]

I apologize to Vargouille, I don't post enough on forums so did not realize you are a developer and that you would know about the vulnerability and that this was as itended. I guess I should have realized as the name seemed familiar.

No worries!

And that is different than any other AoE attack how? I newer have considered taking it. Or any other 1% debuff ability for that matter. 1% damage increase for 3 seconds does absolutely nothing.

With paladin animations you might as well auto attack with weapon that has glancing blows.

Your mileage may vary. As far as we can tell lots of players do like and use this enhancement, but if you aren't interested in using cleave-like abilities that's fine too.

(And, of course, many parties regularly get Vulnerability up to 20% on bosses, which is where Vulnerability is more useful - balancing off the nature of cleave-like abilities that are generally better against many weak enemies. Even just two Paladins could do this.)

[DrawingGuy]

Avenging Cleave is amazing:

- 5[W] vs 2[W] of Great Cleave
- Doesn't require a feat
- Qualifies for Momentum Swings resets, which is huge for LD

You use it in situations where you would use GCleave, and at 5[W], it's worth it on cooldown for THF and SWF users. The "One Stack of Vulnerability" is just a little cherry on top.

[Blackheartox]

Considering i save 3 feats by taking them from palie tree, and considering palie ones are better w, i can say that avenging cleave is amazing.
At least its crucial part of couple builds i did and synergizes well with aoe clearing/momentum resets

[arkonas]

i love the cleaves from paladin. it saves me feats that i didn't have to get. no need to splash if i dont want to. so i don't see the harm in it at all.

[patang01]

No worries!



Your mileage may vary. As far as we can tell lots of players do like and use this enhancement, but if you aren't interested in using cleave-like abilities that's fine too.

(And, of course, many parties regularly get Vulnerability up to 20% on bosses, which is where Vulnerability is more useful - balancing off the nature of cleave-like abilities that are generally better against many weak enemies. Even just two Paladins could do this.)

Cleaves are terrific - I try to use as many as possible on fighter types, the regular with barbs and the enhancement ones with Paladins. That's how you melt mobs. BTW, is it possible to make sure the paladin enhancement ones qualify for legendary cleaves? That way you can use the legendary ones?

[EllisDee37]

The strongest part of Avenging Cleave is, of course, the ability to attack multiple enemies every five seconds.

Agreed, and I love the pally cleaves.

The problem for me is that the pally cleaves frequently (~30-40% chance) put each other on cooldown, so a significant portion of the time you only get to use one. Feats never put each other on cooldown, so I think the pally cleaves end up being strictly worse than their feat counterparts due to this bug.

[FranOhmsford]

Considering i save 3 feats by taking them from palie tree, and considering palie ones are better w, i can say that avenging cleave is amazing.
At least its crucial part of couple builds i did and synergizes well with aoe clearing/momentum resets

3?

Cleave and Great Cleave yes but what's the third?

[Grailhawk]

3?

Cleave and Great Cleave yes but what's the third?

Assuming they only take power attack to take the cleaves means it saves 3 feast. Some people prefer precision that much.

[EllisDee37]

Assuming they only take power attack to take the cleaves means it saves 3 feast. Some people prefer precision that much.

Yep.

My pally dropped power attack altogether and runs with precision 24/7.

[Faltout]

Agreed, and I love the pally cleaves.

The problem for me is that the pally cleaves frequently (~30-40% chance) put each other on cooldown

I've never witnessed this. What I've witnessed is that if you hit the 2 cleaves in rapid succession, the second cleave will not activate but will go on a cooldown. That's why I'm allowing about 1 second delay before hitting the 2nd cleave.