I am wanting to make a fighter build that allows use of bow well, but really dont want to multi-class for that purpose, pls help. TY
I am wanting to make a fighter build that allows use of bow well, but really dont want to multi-class for that purpose, pls help. TY
Right now, fighters are in desperate need of buffage, so is there any reason (apart from RP flavor) to do a pure ftr archer?
I mean, it's doable, of course; if DDO is as easy as all the forum vets complain, just because it's gimpy doesn't make it unworkable. But that's not the same as saying it's a good idea, either...
Semi-retired Build Engineer. Everything was better back in our day. Get off my lawn.
Go elf, take dex to damage and unlock the AA racial tree I guess.
I'm thinking heavy armor with ~13 AP in the stalwart defender tree for +25 prr/mrr, +3 saves and +6 con.
You lose most of your dex bonus to AC but the heavy armor is about prr/mrr, not ac.
EDIT: Or not on the stalwart tree. I quickly ran out of AP setting up an Elf Arcane Archer, build details in next post.
Last edited by EllisDee37; 07-12-2015 at 02:29 PM.
I don't know how good this build would be, and the very low levels will hurt since you can't get dex to damage until level 4, plus I started running out of useful feats to take, but here's an idea at least. Hopefully others with more experience in range combat (I have none) can come by and point out what's wrong with it:
FIghter Archer
Fighter 20
Elf
Stats
. . . . . . . .28pt . . 32pt . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 12. . . .12. . . .4: DEX
Dexterity . . . 20. . . .20. . . .8: DEX
Constitution. . 12. . . .14. . . 12: DEX
Intelligence. . 10. . . .10. . . 16: DEX
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . . 8. . . 20: DEX
Charisma. . . . .8. . . . 8. . . 24: DEX
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: DEX
Skills
. . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Jump. . . 3. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 22
UMD . . . 1½ ½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .11
Tumble. . 1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . . 8. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2
Feats
.1. . . . : Least Dragonmark: Shadow
.1 Fighter: Point Blank Shot
.2 Fighter: Precise Shot
.3. . . . : Rapid Shot
.4 Fighter: Weapon Focus: Ranged
.6. . . . : Manyshot
.6 Fighter: Weapon Specialization: Ranged
.8 Fighter: Improved Critical: Ranged
.9. . . . : Greater Weapon Focus: Ranged
10 Fighter: Precision
12. . . . : Improved Precise Shot
12 Fighter: Greater Weapon Specialization: Ranged
14 Fighter: Dodge
15. . . . : Toughness
16 Fighter: Superior Weapon Focus: Ranged
18. . . . : Mobility
18 Fighter: Shot on the Run
20 Fighter: Power Critical
21 Epic . : Combat Archery
24 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
26 Destiny: Toughness
27 Epic . : Blinding Speed
28 Destiny: Doubleshot
Enhancements (80 AP)
Elf (32 AP)
- Elven Accuracy, Elven Dexterity, Elven Accuracy II, Elven Dexterity II
- Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus II, Aerenal Weapon Training
- Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow, Aerenal Weapon Training, Arcanum III
- Greater Dragonmark of Shadow, Aerenal Weapon Training, Arcane Archer
- Aerenal Grace, Aerenal Weapon Training, Skill
Elf-Arcane Archer (48 AP)
- Arcane Archer, Morphic Arrows, Metalline Arrows, Aligned Arrows, Shadow Arrows, Master of Imbuement
- Conjure Arrows, Energy of the Wild III, Corrosive Arrows
- Force Arrows III, Flaming Arrows
- Terror Arrows III, Soul Magic, Shock Arrows, Dexterity
- Banishing Arrows, Paralyzing Arrows III, Smiting Arrows, Frost Arrows, Dexterity
- Moonbow, Arrow of Slaying, Improved Elemental Arrows, Runebow
You might be better off with a strength build focusing on harper agent and kensei, but I honestly have no idea.
Last edited by the_one_dwarfforged; 07-12-2015 at 11:44 PM.
You are but a lamb, ignorant of your own ignorance. You no longer interest me.
Maybe an initimitank that has ranged capabilities? The idea is to draw aggro from afar with ranged and then switch to defense when they come in on you. Intimidating for the rest of the party to help take them out. The only real necessary tome is the plus 3 dex. Otherwise you might as well shoot for the elf. Seriously though I would do three past lives Ranger first...to get you suited and give you time here to get the things you need to pull something like this off.
New Build
Fighter 20
Neutral Good Human
Stats
. . . . . . . .28pt . . 32pt. . .34pt . . 36pt . . Tome. . .Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .---- . . ---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . .9. . . .13 . . . 14. . . .14. . . .+3 . . . 4: STR
Dexterity . . . 18. . . .18 . . . 18. . . .18. . . .+3 . . . 8: STR
Constitution. . .9. . . . 9 . . . 10. . . .12. . . .+3 . . .12: STR
Intelligence. . 14. . . .14 . . . 14. . . .14. . . .+3 . . .16: STR
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . . 8 . . . .8. . . . 8. . . .+3 . . .20: STR
Charisma. . . . 12. . . .12 . . . 12. . . .12. . . .+3 . . .24: STR
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28: STR
Skills
. . . . . 1 .2. 3 .4. 5 .6. 7 .8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Intim . . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
Jump. . . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
Heal. . . 2 .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ . . 11
Spot. . . 1 .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. 1 .1. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ . . 11
UMD . . . 2 .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ . . 11
Listen. . . . . . . . . . . . . . ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. .6
Tumble. . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1. .2
Swim. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1. .1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .20 .5. 5 .5. 5 .5. 6 .6. 6 .6. 6 .6. 6 .6. 6 .6. 6 .6. 6 .6
Feats
.1. . . . : Combat Expertise
.1 Human. : Point Blank Shot
.1 Fighter: Shield Mastery
.2 Fighter: Rapid Shot
.3. . . . : Improved Shield Bash
.4 Fighter: Precise Shot
.6. . . . : Manyshot
.6 Fighter: Weapon Focus: Ranged
.8 Fighter: Improved Critical: Ranged
.9. . . . : Bow Strength
10 Fighter: Weapon Specialization: Ranged
12. . . . : Improved Precise Shot
12 Fighter: Greater Weapon Focus: Ranged
14 Fighter: Greater Weapon Specialization: Ranged
15. . . . : Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
16 Fighter: Superior Weapon Focus: Ranged
18. . . . : Power Critical
18 Fighter: Improved Shield Mastery
20 Fighter: Precision
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Combat Archery
26 Destiny: Holy Strike
27 Epic . : Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: First Blood
Enhancements (80 AP)
Human (19 AP)
- Damage Boost
- Skill Focus: Awareness III, Action Surge: Strength III, Improved Recovery
- Shield Mastery III
- Improved Recovery
- Improved Recovery
Kensei (14 AP)
- Kensei Focus: Archery
- Extra Action Boost III, Weapon Group Specialization, Haste Boost III
- Weapon Group Specialization
Stalwart Defender (47 AP)
- Toughness, Stalwart Defense, Overbalance, Stand Fast
- Durable Defense III, Threatening Countenance III
- Resilient Defense III, Armor Expertise III
- Inciting Defense III, Shield Expertise III, Strength
- Counterattack III, Reinforced Armor III, Strength
- Reprisal III, Block and Cut III, Reinforced Shield III
Last edited by Enderoc; 07-13-2015 at 02:10 AM.
Okay, so let's take a look at an update of the classic elven pure fighter archer.
Commentary:Code:Bowmeister Fighter 20 True Neutral Elf Stats 28pt 32pt 34pt Tome Level Up ---- ---- ---- ---- -------- Strength 16 16 18 +2 4: STR Dexterity 18 18 18 +3 8: STR Constitution 12 14 12 +2 12: STR Intelligence 10 10 10 +2 16: STR Wisdom 8 8 8 20: STR Charisma 8 8 8 24: STR 28: STR Skills 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 ------------------------------------------------------------ Intim 2 2 2 2 3 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23 UMD 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11 Balance 1 1 1 1 1 1 6 Tumble 1 1 ------------------------------------------------------------ 8 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 Feats 1 : Point Blank Shot 1 Fighter: Rapid Shot 2 Fighter: Weapon Focus: Ranged 3 : Least Dragonmark: Shadow 4 Fighter: Weapon Specialization: Ranged 6 : Bow Strength 6 Fighter: Manyshot 8 Fighter: Improved Critical: Ranged 9 : Precision 10 Fighter: Precise Shot 12 : Improved Critical: Bludgeoning 12 Fighter: Improved Precise Shot 14 Fighter: Two Weapon Fighting 15 : Improved Two Weapon Fighting 16 Fighter: Greater Two Weapon Fighting 18 : Greater Weapon Specialization: Ranged 18 Fighter: Greater Weapon Focus: Ranged 20 Fighter: Superior Weapon Focus: Ranged 21 Epic : Overwhelming Critical 24 Epic : Combat Archery 26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting 27 Epic : Blinding Speed 28 Destiny: Doubleshot Enhancements (80 AP) Elf (16 AP)Elf-Arcane Archer (41 AP)
- Elven Accuracy
- Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus III, Aerenal Weapon Training
- Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow, Arcanum I
- Greater Dragonmark of Shadow, Arcane Archer
Kensei (23 AP)
- Arcane Archer, Morphic Arrows, Metalline Arrows, Aligned Arrows, Shadow Arrows, Master of Imbuement
- Conjure Arrows, True Strike III, Energy of the Wild III, Shock Arrows
- Corrosive Arrows
- Terror Arrows III, Soul Magic, Flaming Arrows
- Banishing Arrows, Paralyzing Arrows III, Smiting Arrows, Frost Arrows
- Moonbow, Arrow of Slaying, Improved Elemental Arrows, Runebow
Destiny (24 AP) Legendary Dreadnought
- Kensei Focus: Archery, Spiritual Bond, Strike with No Thought, Power Surge
- Extra Action Boost III, Weapon Group Specialization, Haste Boost III
- Weapon Group Specialization
- Weapon Group Specialization, Strength
- Weapon Group Specialization
- Extra Action Boost III, Strength
- Damage Boost III, Strength
- Critical Damage II, Strength
- Anvil of Thunder
- Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
- Master's Blitz, Pulverizer
Despite frontloading ranged feats as much as possible, ranged DPS on this build is fairly backloaded; until level 6 when you get Bow STR + Manyshot, I would just melee using whatever's the best 2H weapon you have available. In fact, normally I would build for melee DPS first and backload the ranged feats.
The STR, CON, and INT tomes are nice but not essential; w/out the INT tome I would drop pts from Balance. The +3 DEX tome is necessary to qualify for Improved Precise Shot and Combat Archery; w/out it you'd need to tweak stats accordingly to hit base DEX 21. One option: put your lvl 12 stat pt into DEX to qualify for IPS; then use your +2 DEX tome from 1,750 Favor reward before lvl 24 for CA.
While Morphic Arrows is active, Pulverizer applies to bows, so in Legendary Dreadnought your bow crit profile becomes: 20/x3 base -> 19-20/x3 Pulverizer -> 17-20/x3 IC:Ranged -> 17-18/x3 19-20/x5 Overwhelming Crit + Devastating Crit.
There are a few feats to spare on this build; I used them for Least Shadow DM, TWF chain, and Imp Crit Blunt. I always like to have melee as a backup to archery DPS; and Pulverizer + IC:B gives warhammers the same crit profile as longbows above.
Due to the Doubleshot penalty from Manyshot, I usually don't bother investing in Doubleshot bonuses on archer builds. However, in this case I made an exception, so the combat rotation would be like this:
- 0 - 20 secs: use Manyshot
- 20 - 70 secs: while Doubleshot penalty is active, switch to melee
- 70 - 120 secs: Doubleshot penalty has expired, so you can either switch back to bows (base Doubleshot 34% at level cap w/ED feat) or continue to melee. [If using Div Crusader instead of LD and you switch back to bow, this is a good time to activate Zeal of the Righteous for Doubleshot bonus.]
Semi-retired Build Engineer. Everything was better back in our day. Get off my lawn.
I've just played 2 cleric lives trying to make a racial AA work. Mine were half-elves, not elves.
1) You don't get anywhere near enough ranged power. There is none in the AA tree, and none in the feats you can afford as a cleric (and none or very little in Warpriest). A fighter will get some from having extra feat slots and may get some from enhancements.
2) Enhancements are VERY tight on a racial AA. You need 14 to unlock the tree, and 18 to get to the top of the racial tree (for max Helf Dilettante or Elf Dex-to-Damage). If you're only going for a heroic build, you need 30 points in the AA tree to unlock any T5, plus 2 ap for Slayer Arrows and 3 ap for maximum Improved Elemental Arrows. Aligned Arrows are the best core you can buy and are available at level 15. This means you'll need to spend 32-35 points in the tree for heroic AA with two T5s. If you're going to 28 you'll want to spend 41 points in the tree.
Assuming level 28, you're looking at a ballpark of 47-50 ap spent just on AA. 30 ap may not sound bad, but it goes fast when you'll want things out of multiple trees.
On a cleric, I'm able to get the Radiant Mighty Turning and the cleric burst, with a little in Warpriest for PRR and extra hit points.
3) Feats are also tight. This is less of a problem with a fighter. You need a bare minimum of: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, and Manyshot. Once you have those, you "should" next make sure to have Improved Critical: Ranged, Precise Shot, and Improved Precise Shot. There are some others after that (I think most of the feats that give Ranged Power) but I don't know them as well because I'm not playing a Fighter. I think it's things like Shot on the Run and Weapon Specialization/Weapon Focus.
4) When you're not using Manyshot, you're nearly useless. . This is not me *****ing, this is just a statement of fact. There's no ranged power in the AA tree and the rate of fire on bows is very slow. Mobs (especially champions) just have too many hit points and hit too hard. Once you unlock slayer arrows you can use them every 20 seconds. But they only do 250 points of damage (unless you crit) which most mobs can easily shrug off. Edit: Precise shot gives some extra DPS if you can build Archer's Focus, but it's really hard to hold still or get the time to let stacks build. Especially with room-clearing Warlocks being the new flavor-of-the-month class.
5) The good news is, there's only a couple named bows you'll need. The bad news is, there's only a couple of useful named bows. I get by with a Silver Longbow, a Serpentbranch, a Bow of Sinew, and a triple positive (for when I remember to swap to it against undead). I have all the other sexy bows, they just turn out to not be that useful. Once I hit 14 I really don't swap away from the Bow of Sinew (expanded threat range, x4 multiplier, and aligned is useful in too many situations). It lets me break most heroic DRs and either paralyze or use an elemental toggle and its crits are just too tasty.
Note: I use the Serpentbranch when I absolutely _must_ have a spell stick and still shoot arrows. A fighter wouldn't have the same use for it.
A few positives: with the changes to the repeater animations, and the AA imbues working with repeaters (in some cases you need to swap to a bow and back), you can actually make a pretty nice repeater AA (I used Artificer Dilettante to get the repeater proficiency, you could just burn a feat).
Also, there's some nice synergy with AA imbues and clerics. Fear arrows work nicely to debuff a mob before casting Slay Living or Destruction, and also works to debuff mobs before using a save-based AA toggle. Taking the elf/helf spell pen enhancements helps spend points in the racial tree and boosts casting a little. Paralyze holds stuff in place while you cast a slow spell. Clerics are rolling in spell points, so you can easily afford to swap toggles or use special arrows a lot.
In the case of a fighter, you can afford full Bow Strength (not just Ranger Dilettante) and will easily be able to stack their strength. You'll also get full BAB.
I'm not sure if this is useful, but it's real experience from someone trying through multiple lives to make racial AA playable.
I've just started my first paladin life. I'm hoping this one will be more effective given a paladin's higher DPS and Holy Sword (which is supposed to work with bows).
Edited to fix the parts where I meant to refer to level 28 vs heroic levels.
Last edited by eachna_gislin; 07-17-2015 at 05:23 AM.
I would think a dex build (which requires elf, not half-elf or morninglord) would be the way to go, so bow strength wouldn't be needed.
Fighter can indeed fit all the feats; I actually ran out of good feats to choose. Had to pad with a toughness.
The biggest problem with AA in this kind of build is...fighters get no spell points. The idea then becomes to get echoes from the tier 1 AA enhancement, or even take it as a feat. Plus feywild tap from the elf tree. You're hurting for mana to power the AA abilities, for sure.
This build, as you point out is comfortable in feats. However its really tight on AP so why would you take DEX to damage when you could spec bow STR and save a bunch of AP.
I would like to point out as the others have that fighter is the weakest class in the game at this time and that a full time bow user that doesn't have 10k stars and manyshot is also just about the lowest DPS you can manage in the game.
Viamel ~ Lava Divers
Since you need base 21 dex you may as well max dex. I would imagine a max dex build will have higher dex than a strength build will have strength if it also has to hit base 21 dex.
Also, if you're going for the racial AA tree you've already committed to 14 AP in the elf tree. Meaning dex to damage costs 5 AP more. I concede that they may be a big "if", though.
Then again, if I were to go the strength-based fighter route I'll likely focus on getting both "strong defense" (tier 3 stalwart granting +6 strength) and Power Surge (Kensei ML12 core) for another +8 strength. I'd probably also go human (or maybe half-elf) to get another +3 strength from Action Surge while Power Surge is active.
Last edited by EllisDee37; 07-15-2015 at 01:36 PM.
Yes, you need base DEX 21, but for an elf that's actually not that hard. Pure ftr gets +8 STR from Power Surge and either +6 STR from Gtr Defensive Stance or (in epics) +5 STR from Primal Scream. By comparison, apart from racial bonuses, there's not really any way of boosting DEX; so let's say +2 to +4 DEX. Either way, STR-based comes out ahead. And that's before you factor in other STR bonuses like Madstone Boots.
Semi-retired Build Engineer. Everything was better back in our day. Get off my lawn.
From all reports, which is really just "one" report: Syncletica's monk AA build, helf's str-based damage dies abruptly in epic levels. However, for heroics I find the helf damage is "enough" to feel like a slightly gimp toon who manages to contribute in a group (I don't really solo). The helf ability to get Artificer dilettante and then swap to Ranger dilettante is priceless for me. The Arti dilly benefits from all ranged feats and provides a lot of DPS right when archer is the most anaemic.
If you're starting with a pure fighter I might be tempted to splash 2 paladin. This gives you paladin spellpoints, divine grace, divine might (if it's "worth" it with the tight ap and you're going str-based-helf), you can still take all three tiers of AA spellpoints (paladins don't get Echos) and it doesn't break your BAB. The fighter can afford a bit of charisma for DM/DG. Overall, it's very close to a pure fighter with just enough spellpoints to make it worth the splash.
So I was looking at the race options closely and it seems even though you have an extra feat at the beginning for human, later down the road you can use your constitution for damage on a dwarf, i like that style as hit will allow me to dps based off con and also give me extra hp, thoughts pls.
Note that Throw Your Weight Around (TYWA) subs CON for dmg but not to-hit; that is still based on STR for melee weapons, DEX for thrown weapons. [Unless you have, e.g., Weapon Finesse or Strategic Combat.] To-hit bonuses are less important than they used to be, but you still wouldn't want to completely dump STR, either.
If you are interested in CON-based TYWA dwarf builds, I recommend considering barb instead of ftr, which has both better DPS and free self-healing, which ironically makes it easier to solo a pure barb than a pure ftr these days. Also OS and Ravager capstones provide more oomph to CON-based builds, although FB capstone is still best for DPS.
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...rven-Barbarian
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...arbarian-Build
That said, if you are still committed to the idea of a CON-based dwarf ftr - well, you're my kind of crazy. I've toyed with Dwarven Defender variants which are CON-based, but haven't gotten around to updating my thread.
Semi-retired Build Engineer. Everything was better back in our day. Get off my lawn.
Hmmm...you're right. I'm just so used to advising 2 paladin for Divine Grace that I forgot it would need to be 4 paladin for the rest.
This life I'm playing a paladin AA, with 2 cleric for Mighty Turning. I'm waiting to see if I get enough AP for the Harper Ranged Power enhancements. Unlike other players, I take my enhancements as I level, I don't plan them out ahead of time.
Last edited by eachna_gislin; 08-02-2015 at 01:12 AM.