Need help on build

[Kuthber]

I am wanting to make a fighter build that allows use of bow well, but really dont want to multi-class for that purpose, pls help. TY

[unbongwah]

Right now, fighters are in desperate need of buffage, so is there any reason (apart from RP flavor) to do a pure ftr archer?

I mean, it's doable, of course; if DDO is as easy as all the forum vets complain, just because it's gimpy doesn't make it unworkable. But that's not the same as saying it's a good idea, either...

[EllisDee37]

Go elf, take dex to damage and unlock the AA racial tree I guess.

I'm thinking heavy armor with ~13 AP in the stalwart defender tree for +25 prr/mrr, +3 saves and +6 con.

You lose most of your dex bonus to AC but the heavy armor is about prr/mrr, not ac.

EDIT: Or not on the stalwart tree. I quickly ran out of AP setting up an Elf Arcane Archer, build details in next post.

[EllisDee37]

I don't know how good this build would be, and the very low levels will hurt since you can't get dex to damage until level 4, plus I started running out of useful feats to take, but here's an idea at least. Hopefully others with more experience in range combat (I have none) can come by and point out what's wrong with it:


FIghter Archer
Fighter 20
Elf


Stats
. . . . . . . .28pt . . 32pt . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 12. . . .12. . . .4: DEX
Dexterity . . . 20. . . .20. . . .8: DEX
Constitution. . 12. . . .14. . . 12: DEX
Intelligence. . 10. . . .10. . . 16: DEX
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . . 8. . . 20: DEX
Charisma. . . . .8. . . . 8. . . 24: DEX
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: DEX

Skills
. . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Jump. . . 3. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 22
UMD . . . 1½ ½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .11
Tumble. . 1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . . 8. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2


Feats

.1. . . . : Least Dragonmark: Shadow
.1 Fighter: Point Blank Shot
.2 Fighter: Precise Shot
.3. . . . : Rapid Shot
.4 Fighter: Weapon Focus: Ranged
.6. . . . : Manyshot
.6 Fighter: Weapon Specialization: Ranged
.8 Fighter: Improved Critical: Ranged
.9. . . . : Greater Weapon Focus: Ranged
10 Fighter: Precision
12. . . . : Improved Precise Shot
12 Fighter: Greater Weapon Specialization: Ranged
14 Fighter: Dodge
15. . . . : Toughness
16 Fighter: Superior Weapon Focus: Ranged
18. . . . : Mobility
18 Fighter: Shot on the Run
20 Fighter: Power Critical
21 Epic . : Combat Archery
24 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
26 Destiny: Toughness
27 Epic . : Blinding Speed
28 Destiny: Doubleshot


Enhancements (80 AP)

Elf (32 AP)

• Elven Accuracy, Elven Dexterity, Elven Accuracy II, Elven Dexterity II
  
  1. Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus II, Aerenal Weapon Training
  2. Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow, Aerenal Weapon Training, Arcanum III
  3. Greater Dragonmark of Shadow, Aerenal Weapon Training, Arcane Archer
  4. Aerenal Grace, Aerenal Weapon Training, Skill

Elf-Arcane Archer (48 AP)

• Arcane Archer, Morphic Arrows, Metalline Arrows, Aligned Arrows, Shadow Arrows, Master of Imbuement
  
  1. Conjure Arrows, Energy of the Wild III, Corrosive Arrows
  2. Force Arrows III, Flaming Arrows
  3. Terror Arrows III, Soul Magic, Shock Arrows, Dexterity
  4. Banishing Arrows, Paralyzing Arrows III, Smiting Arrows, Frost Arrows, Dexterity
  5. Moonbow, Arrow of Slaying, Improved Elemental Arrows, Runebow

You might be better off with a strength build focusing on harper agent and kensei, but I honestly have no idea.

[eachna_gislin]

Go elf, take dex to damage and unlock the AA racial tree I guess.

I'm thinking heavy armor with ~13 AP in the stalwart defender tree for +25 prr/mrr, +3 saves and +6 con.

You lose most of your dex bonus to AC but the heavy armor is about prr/mrr, not ac.

EDIT: Or not on the stalwart tree. I quickly ran out of AP setting up an Elf Arcane Archer, build details in next post.

I've just played 2 cleric lives trying to make a racial AA work. Mine were half-elves, not elves.

1) You don't get anywhere near enough ranged power. There is none in the AA tree, and none in the feats you can afford as a cleric (and none or very little in Warpriest). A fighter will get some from having extra feat slots and may get some from enhancements.

2) Enhancements are VERY tight on a racial AA. You need 14 to unlock the tree, and 18 to get to the top of the racial tree (for max Helf Dilettante or Elf Dex-to-Damage). If you're only going for a heroic build, you need 30 points in the AA tree to unlock any T5, plus 2 ap for Slayer Arrows and 3 ap for maximum Improved Elemental Arrows. Aligned Arrows are the best core you can buy and are available at level 15. This means you'll need to spend 32-35 points in the tree for heroic AA with two T5s. If you're going to 28 you'll want to spend 41 points in the tree.

Assuming level 28, you're looking at a ballpark of 47-50 ap spent just on AA. 30 ap may not sound bad, but it goes fast when you'll want things out of multiple trees.

On a cleric, I'm able to get the Radiant Mighty Turning and the cleric burst, with a little in Warpriest for PRR and extra hit points.

3) Feats are also tight. This is less of a problem with a fighter. You need a bare minimum of: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, and Manyshot. Once you have those, you "should" next make sure to have Improved Critical: Ranged, Precise Shot, and Improved Precise Shot. There are some others after that (I think most of the feats that give Ranged Power) but I don't know them as well because I'm not playing a Fighter. I think it's things like Shot on the Run and Weapon Specialization/Weapon Focus.

4) When you're not using Manyshot, you're nearly useless. . This is not me *****ing, this is just a statement of fact. There's no ranged power in the AA tree and the rate of fire on bows is very slow. Mobs (especially champions) just have too many hit points and hit too hard. Once you unlock slayer arrows you can use them every 20 seconds. But they only do 250 points of damage (unless you crit) which most mobs can easily shrug off. Edit: Precise shot gives some extra DPS if you can build Archer's Focus, but it's really hard to hold still or get the time to let stacks build. Especially with room-clearing Warlocks being the new flavor-of-the-month class.

5) The good news is, there's only a couple named bows you'll need. The bad news is, there's only a couple of useful named bows. I get by with a Silver Longbow, a Serpentbranch, a Bow of Sinew, and a triple positive (for when I remember to swap to it against undead). I have all the other sexy bows, they just turn out to not be that useful. Once I hit 14 I really don't swap away from the Bow of Sinew (expanded threat range, x4 multiplier, and aligned is useful in too many situations). It lets me break most heroic DRs and either paralyze or use an elemental toggle and its crits are just too tasty.

Note: I use the Serpentbranch when I absolutely _must_ have a spell stick and still shoot arrows. A fighter wouldn't have the same use for it.


A few positives: with the changes to the repeater animations, and the AA imbues working with repeaters (in some cases you need to swap to a bow and back), you can actually make a pretty nice repeater AA (I used Artificer Dilettante to get the repeater proficiency, you could just burn a feat).

Also, there's some nice synergy with AA imbues and clerics. Fear arrows work nicely to debuff a mob before casting Slay Living or Destruction, and also works to debuff mobs before using a save-based AA toggle. Taking the elf/helf spell pen enhancements helps spend points in the racial tree and boosts casting a little. Paralyze holds stuff in place while you cast a slow spell. Clerics are rolling in spell points, so you can easily afford to swap toggles or use special arrows a lot.

In the case of a fighter, you can afford full Bow Strength (not just Ranger Dilettante) and will easily be able to stack their strength. You'll also get full BAB.

I'm not sure if this is useful, but it's real experience from someone trying through multiple lives to make racial AA playable.

I've just started my first paladin life. I'm hoping this one will be more effective given a paladin's higher DPS and Holy Sword (which is supposed to work with bows).

Edited to fix the parts where I meant to refer to level 28 vs heroic levels.

[EllisDee37]

I would think a dex build (which requires elf, not half-elf or morninglord) would be the way to go, so bow strength wouldn't be needed.

Fighter can indeed fit all the feats; I actually ran out of good feats to choose. Had to pad with a toughness.

The biggest problem with AA in this kind of build is...fighters get no spell points. The idea then becomes to get echoes from the tier 1 AA enhancement, or even take it as a feat. Plus feywild tap from the elf tree. You're hurting for mana to power the AA abilities, for sure.

[Bloodskittle]

I would think a dex build (which requires elf, not half-elf or morninglord) would be the way to go, so bow strength wouldn't be needed.

Fighter can indeed fit all the feats; I actually ran out of good feats to choose. Had to pad with a toughness.

The biggest problem with AA in this kind of build is...fighters get no spell points. The idea then becomes to get echoes from the tier 1 AA enhancement, or even take it as a feat. Plus feywild tap from the elf tree. You're hurting for mana to power the AA abilities, for sure.

This build, as you point out is comfortable in feats. However its really tight on AP so why would you take DEX to damage when you could spec bow STR and save a bunch of AP.

I would like to point out as the others have that fighter is the weakest class in the game at this time and that a full time bow user that doesn't have 10k stars and manyshot is also just about the lowest DPS you can manage in the game.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

Right now, fighters are in desperate need of buffage, so is there any reason (apart from RP flavor) to do a pure ftr archer?

I mean, it's doable, of course; if DDO is as easy as all the forum vets complain, just because it's gimpy doesn't make it unworkable. But that's not the same as saying it's a good idea, either...

^^^^^ a thousand times this.

if you need help making a build, i dont recommend the fighter class for you. much less as an aa, which cant get both slayer arrow and keen edge, making it truly pointless.

[Enderoc]

Maybe an initimitank that has ranged capabilities? The idea is to draw aggro from afar with ranged and then switch to defense when they come in on you. Intimidating for the rest of the party to help take them out. The only real necessary tome is the plus 3 dex. Otherwise you might as well shoot for the elf. Seriously though I would do three past lives Ranger first...to get you suited and give you time here to get the things you need to pull something like this off.



New Build
Fighter 20
Neutral Good Human


Stats
. . . . . . . .28pt . . 32pt. . .34pt . . 36pt . . Tome. . .Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .---- . . ---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . .9. . . .13 . . . 14. . . .14. . . .+3 . . . 4: STR
Dexterity . . . 18. . . .18 . . . 18. . . .18. . . .+3 . . . 8: STR
Constitution. . .9. . . . 9 . . . 10. . . .12. . . .+3 . . .12: STR
Intelligence. . 14. . . .14 . . . 14. . . .14. . . .+3 . . .16: STR
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . . 8 . . . .8. . . . 8. . . .+3 . . .20: STR
Charisma. . . . 12. . . .12 . . . 12. . . .12. . . .+3 . . .24: STR
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28: STR

Skills
. . . . . 1 .2. 3 .4. 5 .6. 7 .8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Intim . . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
Jump. . . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
Heal. . . 2 .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ . . 11
Spot. . . 1 .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. 1 .1. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ . . 11
UMD . . . 2 .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ . . 11
Listen. . . . . . . . . . . . . . ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. .6
Tumble. . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1. .2
Swim. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1. .1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .20 .5. 5 .5. 5 .5. 6 .6. 6 .6. 6 .6. 6 .6. 6 .6. 6 .6. 6 .6


Feats

.1. . . . : Combat Expertise
.1 Human. : Point Blank Shot
.1 Fighter: Shield Mastery
.2 Fighter: Rapid Shot
.3. . . . : Improved Shield Bash
.4 Fighter: Precise Shot
.6. . . . : Manyshot
.6 Fighter: Weapon Focus: Ranged
.8 Fighter: Improved Critical: Ranged
.9. . . . : Bow Strength
10 Fighter: Weapon Specialization: Ranged
12. . . . : Improved Precise Shot
12 Fighter: Greater Weapon Focus: Ranged
14 Fighter: Greater Weapon Specialization: Ranged
15. . . . : Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
16 Fighter: Superior Weapon Focus: Ranged
18. . . . : Power Critical
18 Fighter: Improved Shield Mastery
20 Fighter: Precision
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Combat Archery
26 Destiny: Holy Strike
27 Epic . : Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: First Blood


Enhancements (80 AP)

Human (19 AP)

• Damage Boost
  
  1. Skill Focus: Awareness III, Action Surge: Strength III, Improved Recovery
  2. Shield Mastery III
  3. Improved Recovery
  4. Improved Recovery

Kensei (14 AP)

• Kensei Focus: Archery
  
  1. Extra Action Boost III, Weapon Group Specialization, Haste Boost III
  2. Weapon Group Specialization

Stalwart Defender (47 AP)

• Toughness, Stalwart Defense, Overbalance, Stand Fast
  
  1. Durable Defense III, Threatening Countenance III
  2. Resilient Defense III, Armor Expertise III
  3. Inciting Defense III, Shield Expertise III, Strength
  4. Counterattack III, Reinforced Armor III, Strength
  5. Reprisal III, Block and Cut III, Reinforced Shield III

[unbongwah]

Okay, so let's take a look at an update of the classic elven pure fighter archer.

Bowmeister
Fighter 20
True Neutral Elf


Stats
               28pt     32pt     34pt     Tome     Level Up
               ----     ----     ----     ----     --------
Strength        16       16       18       +2       4: STR
Dexterity       18       18       18       +3       8: STR
Constitution    12       14       12       +2      12: STR
Intelligence    10       10       10       +2      16: STR
Wisdom           8        8        8               20: STR
Charisma         8        8        8               24: STR
                                                   28: STR

Skills
          1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
         ------------------------------------------------------------
Intim     2  2     2     2     3  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
UMD       2     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     11
Balance                              1     1     1     1     1     1   6
Tumble    1                                                            1
         ------------------------------------------------------------
          8  2  2  2  2  2  2  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3


Feats

 1        : Point Blank Shot
 1 Fighter: Rapid Shot
 2 Fighter: Weapon Focus: Ranged
 3        : Least Dragonmark: Shadow
 4 Fighter: Weapon Specialization: Ranged
 6        : Bow Strength
 6 Fighter: Manyshot
 8 Fighter: Improved Critical: Ranged
 9        : Precision
10 Fighter: Precise Shot
12        : Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
12 Fighter: Improved Precise Shot
14 Fighter: Two Weapon Fighting
15        : Improved Two Weapon Fighting
16 Fighter: Greater Two Weapon Fighting
18        : Greater Weapon Specialization: Ranged
18 Fighter: Greater Weapon Focus: Ranged
20 Fighter: Superior Weapon Focus: Ranged
21 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic   : Combat Archery
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic   : Blinding Speed
28 Destiny: Doubleshot


Enhancements (80 AP)

Elf (16 AP)

Elven Accuracy
Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus III, Aerenal Weapon Training
Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow, Arcanum I
Greater Dragonmark of Shadow, Arcane Archer

Elf-Arcane Archer (41 AP)

Arcane Archer, Morphic Arrows, Metalline Arrows, Aligned Arrows, Shadow Arrows, Master of Imbuement
Conjure Arrows, True Strike III, Energy of the Wild III, Shock Arrows
Corrosive Arrows
Terror Arrows III, Soul Magic, Flaming Arrows
Banishing Arrows, Paralyzing Arrows III, Smiting Arrows, Frost Arrows
Moonbow, Arrow of Slaying, Improved Elemental Arrows, Runebow

Kensei (23 AP)

Kensei Focus: Archery, Spiritual Bond, Strike with No Thought, Power Surge
Extra Action Boost III, Weapon Group Specialization, Haste Boost III
Weapon Group Specialization
Weapon Group Specialization, Strength
Weapon Group Specialization


Destiny (24 AP)

Legendary Dreadnought

Extra Action Boost III, Strength
Damage Boost III, Strength
Critical Damage II, Strength
Anvil of Thunder
Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
Master's Blitz, Pulverizer

Commentary:

Despite frontloading ranged feats as much as possible, ranged DPS on this build is fairly backloaded; until level 6 when you get Bow STR + Manyshot, I would just melee using whatever's the best 2H weapon you have available. In fact, normally I would build for melee DPS first and backload the ranged feats.

The STR, CON, and INT tomes are nice but not essential; w/out the INT tome I would drop pts from Balance. The +3 DEX tome is necessary to qualify for Improved Precise Shot and Combat Archery; w/out it you'd need to tweak stats accordingly to hit base DEX 21. One option: put your lvl 12 stat pt into DEX to qualify for IPS; then use your +2 DEX tome from 1,750 Favor reward before lvl 24 for CA.

While Morphic Arrows is active, Pulverizer applies to bows, so in Legendary Dreadnought your bow crit profile becomes: 20/x3 base -> 19-20/x3 Pulverizer -> 17-20/x3 IC:Ranged -> 17-18/x3 19-20/x5 Overwhelming Crit + Devastating Crit.

There are a few feats to spare on this build; I used them for Least Shadow DM, TWF chain, and Imp Crit Blunt. I always like to have melee as a backup to archery DPS; and Pulverizer + IC:B gives warhammers the same crit profile as longbows above.

Due to the Doubleshot penalty from Manyshot, I usually don't bother investing in Doubleshot bonuses on archer builds. However, in this case I made an exception, so the combat rotation would be like this:

• 0 - 20 secs: use Manyshot
• 20 - 70 secs: while Doubleshot penalty is active, switch to melee
• 70 - 120 secs: Doubleshot penalty has expired, so you can either switch back to bows (base Doubleshot 34% at level cap w/ED feat) or continue to melee. [If using Div Crusader instead of LD and you switch back to bow, this is a good time to activate Zeal of the Righteous for Doubleshot bonus.]