Warlocks!

[Chi_Ryu]

Il be perfecty honest.
No class has any kind of issues with umd in modern ddo.

Assuming at least some of large UMD skill tome, exceptional bonus/green steel, stat tomes, past lives, litany, completionist, good gear... then sure. I have no trouble with UMD on my main, either, regardless of build (so long as I spend max points in UMD, and swap gear - and even spending points is optional if I only care about Epics).

But now try that Cha-dumped Barb with a new first lifer, where you will only get to no fail on a Heal scroll at cap, that's including good easily farmable items (+5 UMD, +11 Cha and +3 Insighful Cha), ship buffs, GH, and standard good luck item - as a point of reference, that's something I can have at around level 13 on my main given the exact same build.

Remember: not everyone plays decked out triple completionists, and for those that don't, +5 is a massive boost (let alone +10).

[EllisDee37]

Remember: not everyone plays decked out triple completionists, and for those that don't, +5 is a massive boost (let alone +10).

I think it's more about getting a free +8 from epic levels.

[Ausdoerrt]

What majority?

I've always seen the number of people after Warlocks as a very small minority! {And it's usually accompanied by requests for OP Player races like Aasimar, Tiefling and Dragonborn!}.

Especially when compared to those who want Gnomes!

Why are we comparing apples and oranges?

Also, I'll take any class over a new race at this point. And I'm not sure what else it could be other than Warlock.

[Paleus]

Remember, please: Things can, may, and probably will change. We love being able to provide this level of detail prior to even debuting things on Lamannia, but with that comes the requirement that people not treat this as set-in-stone-better-not-change-it-or-I-will-accuse-you-of-lying-to-us-type information.

Hhmm....uhm, well this....yeah...awkward. I already started taking some notes

[darthhento]

These are added to the spells you know. Tentatively, any level 20 Warlock will have direct castable access to 3 spells per spell level - per level, 2 would be chosen, and another would come from the Pact.

Are you kidding me? I'm a bloody caster and you're gonna give it 2 spells per level + one predetermened? EVEN A DARN PALADIN HAS MORE SPELLS AVAILABLE TO IT THAN THAT!! There needs to be AT LEAST the same amount of spell slots like a bard has. Jesus Christ >.<

[darthhento]

Some still-early thoughts based on feedback (can't really promise anything, should probably wait until the work week starts and all other designers can chip in)

• We'll probably strongly consider not tying Warlock to the Primal Sphere of Epic Destinies.
• Metamagics will surely be a topic of some discussion. "Desirable feats" for Warlock is also a likely topic of discussion, more broadly. Adding choice and diversity is a major goal. At the same time we want to make sure "caster" Warlocks aren't just scrambling for any useful feat to find. (We do like that there are serious discussions for Wizards/Sorcs about whether or not Maximize and Empower are both entirely necessary, and some of those characters may be best off without them.)
• We of course still want to add new spells to the game, including particular for Warlock's release.
• I'm a bit surprised at how often players have suggested that death spells aren't appropriate. Should we remove death spells from the general Warlock spell list?
• Spell points are probably here to stay in some form, but we're aware that having some spell-point free abilities is important.
• Details of alignment restrictions are something we may still discuss. If you have an opinion on this that you haven't expressed yet, do please chime in.

• good
• what? are you serious about that?
• more spells is good
• you should NOT remove death spells from warlock spell list. IT'S A WARLOCK!
• indeed
• unless you put evil alignment into the game, you shouldn't limit warlock's alignment choice

[Blackheartox]

Assuming at least some of large UMD skill tome, exceptional bonus/green steel, stat tomes, past lives, litany, completionist, good gear... then sure. I have no trouble with UMD on my main, either, regardless of build (so long as I spend max points in UMD, and swap gear - and even spending points is optional if I only care about Epics).

But now try that Cha-dumped Barb with a new first lifer, where you will only get to no fail on a Heal scroll at cap, that's including good easily farmable items (+5 UMD, +11 Cha and +3 Insighful Cha), ship buffs, GH, and standard good luck item - as a point of reference, that's something I can have at around level 13 on my main given the exact same build.

Remember: not everyone plays decked out triple completionists, and for those that don't, +5 is a massive boost (let alone +10).

That is true, but to be honest, all the gear and ghero clickies are easily available to anyone in ddo.
No im not counting this all on a 3x all, but on a alt that is uhm 6th lifer with 3 wiz plifes 1 fsoul 2 sorc and a +3 char tome.
I easily manipulate umd in ddo to fit my needs even on a char that doesnt specialize in it.
On a 3x all maxed gear barb you are able to scroll deadly nowadays as well.
Umd lost its niche addition the moment they added recon as sla and cocoon as you only use specific scrolls nowadays.
Example, yes i have a bar fully loaded with scrolls, nightshield, circle against evil, tensers, teleport, ddor scrols, greater resto, heal, ress, raise, mass teleport, mas invis, even energy drain and random scrolls like disjunction orb but to be honest all of those things are not necessary in current ddo, umd is not as important as it was pre motu.
And even nonimportant as it is, you can easily reach reasonable levels on a few lifer char currently if you like some utility.
I dont understand the meaning of umd in warlock, its so insignificant that i easily overlook it.
If we needed maxed umd and that using heal scrolls at lv 9 on a first lifer was so game breaking i would argue, but imo ddo alrdy lost any sort of ballance in heroics long time ago

[Chi_Ryu]

I think it's more about getting a free +8 from epic levels.

Yes, this is already taken into account in my calculations, and besides which - Heal scrolls are much more useful in Heroic (+10 by level 13 with Cha main stat means it'll be no fail buffed for a first lifer, no tomes, basic gear).

[Arkai]

Amazing preview, I'm loving many things there... and hating others, lol, but that is how life works.

Okay, about the alignment restrictions, I have to say that I'll preffer no restrictions since I want to try all the warlock archetypes while I'm getting several Epic Reincarnations, and I dont want to get a locked tree or feat due to the alignment.


In the other hand, the pew pew system looks good and the promise of new spells is exciting too. You could put some Xoriat madness into this new guy's magic stuff to get an exclusive flavour (as people said before, Xoriat Bees, The sticky vomit from Mimics, etc).

Keep up the good work, guys (:

[Ausdoerrt]

unless you put evil alignment into the game, you shouldn't limit warlock's alignment choice

This.

Are you kidding me? I'm a bloody caster and you're gonna give it 2 spells per level + one predetermened? EVEN A DARN PALADIN HAS MORE SPELLS AVAILABLE TO IT THAN THAT!! There needs to be AT LEAST the same amount of spell slots like a bard has. Jesus Christ >.<

That's not how Warlock works.

[slarden]

• I'm a bit surprised at how often players have suggested that death spells aren't appropriate. Should we remove death spells from the general Warlock spell list?

Please keep the death spells. It's a nice option for warlock. The limited # of spells warlocks have is a significant restriction - there shouldn't be a restriction of spells on top of that.

I suspect at least some of the feedback you are getting are attempts to make warlock gimp because those folks have no plans to purchase it anyhow. Overall I think you have a great start that needs a little bit of tweaking but not gimping.

If anything my biggest concern is whether eld blast will be useful in high level ee content - not that Warlock is OP.

Maximize and Empower should work with Eld Blast. It should also work with PM SLAs for that matter- PM SLAs are useless without those in end game content.

[Qhualor]

Can Warlock pasive past life could be mrr? 3 per past life like pdk prr or epic divine pl

or will you add it on some new icoinc's?

Dammit. If this was Warlocks past life that would mean all my characters would do 3× warlock. I'm already going to have to grit my teeth when my ranger does 3× FVS Morninglord. Harumph.

[slarden]

Il be perfecty honest.
No class has any kind of issues with umd in modern ddo.
I can basically have no fail umd for all scrolls i want as barb with starting 8 charisma.
Giving umd to 2 warlock for me is not something "gamebreaking" but more like something that is so bad and useless that i cant express any kind positive attitude toward that

Yeah esp since their primary stat is charisma. They are going to get +25-30 from charisma alone at cap and 8 from epic levels. I think a warlock putting 1 point into UMD will have a no fail UMD. There is not much in this game you need a super high UMD for.

[fmalfeas]

Yeah esp since their primary stat is charisma. They are going to get +25-30 from charisma alone at cap and 8 from epic levels. I think a warlock putting 1 point into UMD will have a no fail UMD. There is not much in this game you need a super high UMD for.

You never have too much UMD if you're made of meat. Neg levels apply a skill check penalty, so you want lots of extra so you can fire off that greater restoration scroll after the beholders greet you in an unlucky way.

[slarden]

What majority?

I've always seen the number of people after Warlocks as a very small minority! {And it's usually accompanied by requests for OP Player races like Aasimar, Tiefling and Dragonborn!}.

Especially when compared to those who want Gnomes!

I never asked for warlock, tiefling, dragonborn, Aasimar or gnome, but I'll gladly take whatever Turbine gives me. I don't care even a little if it's heavily influenced by what the producers/devs want personally.

What I am seeing with the design of Warlock is a new-player friendly casting class that has options when spell points are low. There are some easy-button casting builds now, but they are fairly difficult for a new player to conceptualize.

Warlock will be something a new player can play "out of the box" as a 20 warlock and be fairly effective since there are options when sp gets low.

I remember running a shroud with my son years ago and he ran out of sp in part IV and pulled out his crossbow. He got a bit of abuse from 2 players that I thought were powergamers at the time, but now that I know the game better I realize they are just 2 players with issues that aren't even all that good. Still that was a major problem both of us had when we were new to playing casters - sp management.

You often advocate for new players - so I am a bit shocked at your opposition for warlock since it seems like a new-player-friendly casting build to me. I understand you want gnome and based on Sev's prior comments I am thinking that's a real possibility in the future.

[Angelic-council]

Remove death spells from a warlock general spell list? why.. how could having circle of death or wail is inappropriate. Let's think about it, if not those spells.. what else is useful.

Some of us just worry about the level 6 cap, and that.. it might not be good enought to kill things in later end game (EE). If soul eater provides an AoE instant kill ability, that's new and per with wail of banshee + implosion and scales great. Then I don't think none of us will be upset.

I do think however.. maybe, possibly... you guys can add something new to the spell list? I know it's not easy, or.. all of that is covered in enchantments.

[HastyPudding]

Hummmm....let me chime in on a few things, I guess.

--Self healing
The souleater tree looks to have enough life-steal, temporary HP, and iconic warlock abilities like devour magic in it to settle this. While I hate scroll healing, I'm glad a bought a lot of healing elixirs back when they were no sale. The enlightened one tree probably has enough defense to make up for their relative squishiness in heroics (and probably has the 'armored caster' ability to upgrade light armor to medium armor with no arcane spell failure).

--Spell Points
I don't like it, plain and simple, but in DDO's environment I can see how it is probably necessary, especially concerning the fact that certain paths will obtain some very OP spells if they didn't have any SP cost. I would definitely be in favor of a stronger magical training/echos of power feat, or give them some sort of SP regeneration in the upper reaches of the tainted scholar tree so as not to be abused through multiclassing.

--Metamagics
I don't see why warlocks should use metamagics. I mean, if you're giving them spells, they better be able to use things like quicken, heighten, and enlarge, at least. Eldritch blast is another case, I think it'd be better to wait how it performs on lammania before giving it metamagic potential.

--UMD
One point in UMD at creation is probably more than enough for any pure warlock. I've never been a fan of scroll healing, but I guess if you are, it's useful. Certainly using resurrection, greater heroism, and true seeing scrolls is worth it, in the least.

--Epic Destinies
Out of any idea in this thread, warlocks being considered primal makes the least sense, to me. They have no synergy with fury, very little synergy with primal avatar, and I have a major psychotic hatred of shiradi casters. They have more synergy with the divine sphere than primal, and would fit perfectly into arcane.

[Silverleafeon]

Hhmm....uhm, well this....yeah...awkward. I already started taking some notes

+1 and possibly the best lol in this thread, hats off to you!

[Silverleafeon]

• unless you put evil alignment into the game, you shouldn't limit warlock's alignment choice

+1 well said

[Silverleafeon]

Warlock will be something a new player can play "out of the box" as a 20 warlock and be fairly effective since there are options when sp gets low.

I have been pressing for a handicapped DDO class option for some time now, this might fit the bill fairly well. Not that it would be limited to that but it could be played effectively without a ton of button mashing.

Yes, there are combat wounded vets out there that play DDO. One of my old Guild Leaders played with two prosthetic arms and did very well with a hybrid twf ranger.

Of course older players and for the days when we want to kick back and take it easy, etc...