Warlocks!

[ToastyFred]

So you'd have been happy if they added Blacksmith {It has been A Class in D&D!} would you?

Don't be ridiculous, of course not.

The phrase "within reason" was implied and I thought that would have been understood by most intelligent people.

[kuzka111]

Can Warlock pasive past life could be mrr? 3 per past life like pdk prr or epic divine pl

or will you add it on some new icoinc's?

[Silverleafeon]

the problem with warlock they dont fit into any current tree, theoretically they are primal buy nothing in primal fits well with warlock. if it were up to me i would make a new destiny sphere for the middle(and move material up)that properly connects each tree to each other rather than going through material which makes no sense.

arcane/material for spellsword/arti
primal/arcane for warlock

I suggested a new sphere at one time called Planar that would sit in the middle and connect the spheres.

Since Warlocks make pact with extra planar beings, this fits.

However it would require a new ED and eventually 2 more.

I could go primal or arcane.

The big points are caster levels and stat increases.

All ED ought to have tri stats.
{Maybe all ED ought to have six stat choices? Copy and paste and be done with it.}

Maybe we should have an new Epic Feat or Epic Destiny Feat that says:

"Epic SpellCasting: You Epic Levels add to your caster levels in any spellcasting class you have. These do not stack with caster levels provided by Epic Destinies."

I am willing to compromise with this alternative:

Multiselction "Epic SpellCasting {insert class here}: You Epic Levels add to your caster levels in {insert class here}. These do not stack with caster levels provided by Epic Destinies."

^{And Magistar and Draconic Innates need to be rewritten hopefully along with the level 30 (and possible level 10 ED) increases.}

[Silverleafeon]

Can Warlock pasive past life could be mrr? 3 per past life like pdk prr or epic divine pl

or will you add it on some new icoinc's?

I can support this direction.

[arkonas]

Why though?

What possible reason could you have for taking Quicken that early other than that you've been told it's a must have?

Quicken is a good Feat don't get me wrong but it's hardly the absolute necessity for every single caster toon that it's made out to be!

Heck I've stated on numerous occasions that it should be rolled into Combat Casting {or more the other way round actually} and even then I'd personally only take it once I hit Lvl 15 on a character who heavily utilised Recon or Disco Ball and at Lvl 18 on a Divine!

Oh sorry I take it much earlier on Artis as it helps Flame Turret massively!

as for quicken its not just the speed time but spells can't be interrupted. in ee you then have to rely on concentration which will be broken if a mob hits you. which means the spell fails and you spend more sp to cast it again. so lets see more sp and chance of failure or a few extra sp to get it to work


you and uska keep talking about warlocks weren't wanted, but that is just a matter of opinion of yours and theirs. warlock was up there in the polls. sure maybe not number 1 but that doesn't mean others aren't being looked at. i don't know how much work goes into coding or trying to translate a class into ddo's point of view. i can only assume its not easy at all.

as for races i think that is different and i would love to see 1 race and 1 class or prestige a year. it would be nice to see variety. you mentioned other elves and dwarves. why? its boring just to see a variant. im ok with seeing brand new ones like gnomes, tiefling etc. i was honestly shocked when i saw ddo didn't have goblins in their monsters. its such a classic one.

anyways if you don't like it no matter how much hate you bring it still won't remove it from the game. just remember forum population is the smallest % of any game. if people really want to voice their opinion they should, but we all know that won't happen. it will always be a small % who do.

[Silverleafeon]

So you'd have been happy if they added Blacksmith {It has been A Class in D&D!} would you?

Actually I would like to see an NPC class category
with the following stipulations:

These should never count towards Completionist.

There should be at least one more independent tree like harper.

They would not gain their own trees.

They would not gain a purchasable past life.

They would start with very easy to program classes such as starting with
Expert and Aristocrat

The passive past live would be interesting but not overpowerful such as
"You gain +1 in three different skills."

[Mahatu]

Some still-early thoughts based on feedback (can't really promise anything, should probably wait until the work week starts and all other designers can chip in)

• We'll probably strongly consider not tying Warlock to the Primal Sphere of Epic Destinies.
• Metamagics will surely be a topic of some discussion. "Desirable feats" for Warlock is also a likely topic of discussion, more broadly. Adding choice and diversity is a major goal. At the same time we want to make sure "caster" Warlocks aren't just scrambling for any useful feat to find. (We do like that there are serious discussions for Wizards/Sorcs about whether or not Maximize and Empower are both entirely necessary, and some of those characters may be best off without them.)
• We of course still want to add new spells to the game, including particular for Warlock's release.
• I'm a bit surprised at how often players have suggested that death spells aren't appropriate. Should we remove death spells from the general Warlock spell list?
• Spell points are probably here to stay in some form, but we're aware that having some spell-point free abilities is important.
• Details of alignment restrictions are something we may still discuss. If you have an opinion on this that you haven't expressed yet, do please chime in.

On epic destiny spheres: I am glad you are reconsidering what sphere they belong to. I would like to restate here that it would be a good move to remove caster levels from epic destinies and instead tie them to epic levels.

On metamagics: Probably the biggest reason I would like to see eldritch blast and any other spell like abilities warlocks may get work with metamagic feats is for much the same reason spellpoints are a good choice for warlocks. It gives them better synergy with epic destinies and epic spells. If they get a new, separate line of feats then they won't necessarily work with any of those things. On a related note I think having an epic feat that gives 3d6 eldritch blast damage or somehting similar would be a good idea.

On new spells: I think my biggest desire would be for elvard's black tentacles. I love that spell and it is such an important spell for warlock control in PnP. For those that don't know it is basically an indestructible web that also deals bludgeoning damage over time to those caught in it. Word of changing would be nice as well, more or less a single target mass frog.

On death spells: I think the main concern is that warlocks with death spells will overlap or outshine pale masters. I am not sure I agree with this, as pale masters have additional things that separate them, and classes with overlapping roles isn't inherently a bad thing. I could see an argument for warlocks not getting the most powerful death spells, or for them getting the spells later than a sorc or wizard would.

On alignment restrictions: Alignment in Ebberon really isn't meant to be a hard and fast rule, but a general guideline that is a lot more flexible than it is considered to be in Greyhawk or the Forgotten Realms. So far I like what has been suggested and I would rather see them have either very loose restrictions or none at all.

I would also like to thank you Varg for taking your time to answer some of our questions!

[nibel]

I disagree, In PnP Warlocks are also masters of UMD. It is a class skill and they get Skill Mastery with it. They even have special uses of UMD in the creation of magic items, whereas Artificers follow the normal rules except for the temporary ones with Imbue.

Rogues and Artificers can get Skill Mastery on it as well in PnP. I think they should have the same benefit where Skill Mastery is involved: +1 bonus to all skills.

+10 UMD is too much. +5 with a 2-level splash is too much. I'm not saying that they should have *no* UMD perks. I'm saying that simply giving a large bonus is broken given that Warlocks are a cha-based class.

[Silverleafeon]

as for quicken its not just the speed time but spells can't be interrupted. in ee you then have to rely on concentration which will be broken if a mob hits you. which means the spell fails and you spend more sp to cast it again. so lets see more sp and chance of failure or a few extra sp to get it to work

Until we get something like:

Combat Casting: Any damage you take while spell casting is divided by 10 before being applied to concentration checks.

Quicken will be important in Epics. I usually recommend to new players to take it a level 18.

[FranOhmsford]

On new spells: I think my biggest desire would be for elvard's black tentacles. I love that spell and it is such an important spell for warlock control in PnP. For those that don't know it is basically an indestructible web that also deals bludgeoning damage over time to those caught in it. Word of changing would be nice as well, more or less a single target mass frog.

Evard's Black Tentacles is a WIZARD Spell!

If Warlocks get it then it HAS to be in Wizard and Sorc lists too NOT special to Warlocks!

[Blackheartox]

Rogues and Artificers can get Skill Mastery on it as well in PnP. I think they should have the same benefit where Skill Mastery is involved: +1 bonus to all skills.

+10 UMD is too much. +5 with a 2-level splash is too much. I'm not saying that they should have *no* UMD perks. I'm saying that simply giving a large bonus is broken given that Warlocks are a cha-based class.

Il be perfecty honest.
No class has any kind of issues with umd in modern ddo.
I can basically have no fail umd for all scrolls i want as barb with starting 8 charisma.
Giving umd to 2 warlock for me is not something "gamebreaking" but more like something that is so bad and useless that i cant express any kind positive attitude toward that

[davmuzl]

• I'm a bit surprised at how often players have suggested that death spells aren't appropriate. Should we remove death spells from the general Warlock spell list?

I don't know much about Warlocks in pnp, but it doesn't seem like having those spells in the list is a bad thing. The question is simply, how good is this supported by the enhancement trees. Druid also has Finger of Death and not many people use it for obvious reasons. Sorcerers also don't use it for the most part, it's only Wizards who have a good option to go for the instant kill spec and honestly I wouldn't mind if it wasn't such a big thing for them (I don't like characters that only do one thing in general).

What I would love to see would be a focus on making magic more of a utility thing rather than just killing by adjusting future quests accordingly. Maybe leaving instant killing to Wizards would be a good idea, without removing the spells from the Warlock list but also not specifically supporting it.

As for if Empower and Maximize should work with Eldritch blasts. I think you should think of where you want player DPS in general and adjust the spellpower scaling accordingly.

[Crysae]

Evard's Black Tentacles is a WIZARD Spell!

If Warlocks get it then it HAS to be in Wizard and Sorc lists too NOT special to Warlocks!

And Earthquake is a Cleric spell. So what? Tentacles is an iconic warlock spell, not everything has to bleed into every other class.

[Crysae]

• We'll probably strongly consider not tying Warlock to the Primal Sphere of Epic Destinies.
• Metamagics will surely be a topic of some discussion. "Desirable feats" for Warlock is also a likely topic of discussion, more broadly. Adding choice and diversity is a major goal. At the same time we want to make sure "caster" Warlocks aren't just scrambling for any useful feat to find. (We do like that there are serious discussions for Wizards/Sorcs about whether or not Maximize and Empower are both entirely necessary, and some of those characters may be best off without them.)
• We of course still want to add new spells to the game, including particular for Warlock's release.
• I'm a bit surprised at how often players have suggested that death spells aren't appropriate. Should we remove death spells from the general Warlock spell list?
• Spell points are probably here to stay in some form, but we're aware that having some spell-point free abilities is important.
• Details of alignment restrictions are something we may still discuss. If you have an opinion on this that you haven't expressed yet, do please chime in.

Metas should probably apply.

I don't think that death spells are inappropriate (in fact they're very appropriate thematically), I just want to be sure that there isn't too much overlap with Pale Masters. I'm very pro death spells.

Spell points just make sense for DDO. Free spells, SLA's, and regenerating mp can all help to create that infinite casting warlock feel (seriously magical training regen scaling with warlock level would be sweet).

Alignment restriction based on pact makes flavor sense and mechanically works fine. People calling for chaotic or evil are needlessly pigeonholing the class in a game that barely uses alignment in the first place. I for one support build diversity as I believe its what makes this game great.

[Uska]

as for quicken its not just the speed time but spells can't be interrupted. in ee you then have to rely on concentration which will be broken if a mob hits you. which means the spell fails and you spend more sp to cast it again. so lets see more sp and chance of failure or a few extra sp to get it to work


you and uska keep talking about warlocks weren't wanted, but that is just a matter of opinion of yours and theirs. warlock was up there in the polls. sure maybe not number 1 but that doesn't mean others aren't being looked at. i don't know how much work goes into coding or trying to translate a class into ddo's point of view. i can only assume its not easy at all.

as for races i think that is different and i would love to see 1 race and 1 class or prestige a year. it would be nice to see variety. you mentioned other elves and dwarves. why? its boring just to see a variant. im ok with seeing brand new ones like gnomes, tiefling etc. i was honestly shocked when i saw ddo didn't have goblins in their monsters. its such a classic one.

anyways if you don't like it no matter how much hate you bring it still won't remove it from the game. just remember forum population is the smallest % of any game. if people really want to voice their opinion they should, but we all know that won't happen. it will always be a small % who do.

I never said it wasn't wanted I said it wasn't the top choice and not on my top one trillion

[Mahatu]

Evard's Black Tentacles is a WIZARD Spell!

If Warlocks get it then it HAS to be in Wizard and Sorc lists too NOT special to Warlocks!

It is also as wiz and sorc spell. However, the invocation chilling tentacles (black tentacles plus extra cold damage) is one of the warlock's most iconic invocations, as well as their core strength as a control caster. I am not saying that it shouldn't be added to the sorc/wizard list, but it is more relevant to warlocks than it is to them. Also, not every spell needs to be on everyone's list, even if it is in pnp. DDO is essentially it's own edition and differentiating the spell lists can help keep casters feel unique from one another.

[Uska]

Evard's Black Tentacles is a WIZARD Spell!

If Warlocks get it then it HAS to be in Wizard and Sorc lists too NOT special to Warlocks!

This 100000000000000%

[Sharktopus]

This class addition should be buried in the desert in New Mexico.

I would rather play as a half-orc Cake Baker, at least baking is a useful skill.

Warlock adds -0- to the game in its current state. It would have been cool five years ago.

[Uska]

Can Warlock pasive past life could be mrr? 3 per past life like pdk prr or epic divine pl

or will you add it on some new icoinc's?

Sounds ok

[EllisDee37]

Completely unrelated responses consolidated into a single post:

But in a MMORPG, a player is supposed to be able to change some aspect of its toon, like which Pact to be in.

Different pacts make up different toons, and I fear that a LG Fey Warlock has to change his alignment first, if he wants to talk with Fred.

That's a fair point. If the pacts are alignment-restricted, it's likely that you'll be permanently locked in until a heroic TR: Fred won't let you change to a pact if you're the wrong alignment, and you can't use an alignment change from the store if you would violate a feat prereq. (Similar to how you can't use an alignment change on a paladin.)

I suppose they could sidestep this problem by adding the ability to change alignment during lesser reincarnation.

magical training regen scaling with warlock level would be sweet

Very clever. Something like: Echoes restores up to 12 spell points +1 per warlock level? (so 32 @ 20)

On epic destiny spheres: I am glad you are reconsidering what sphere they belong to. I would like to restate here that it would be a good move to remove caster levels from epic destinies and instead tie them to epic levels.

Agreed. I'd probably also make all six stats available to all epic destinies.

I'm in favour of alignment restrictions on pacts and on certain abilities in trees, but not locking out whole trees. Alignment should matter significantly for warlock, paladin, monk, barbarian, and druid, but it shouldn't cripple them. This is a lore-based opinion, not a balance based one.

On a purely selfish personal level, I really hope they don't add any kind of alignment restrictions to any enhancements, either whole trees or individual enhancements. That's a headache I don't need.

On a cleric or favored soul, which I don't actually play, I would say about the same as druid, maybe 12 (depends on the amount of SLAs).

I like taking quicken @ 6 on clerics for radiant burst, which is pretty slow without it.