Would Psionics work as a global tree like Harper?

[EllisDee37]

My only P&P experience is from AD&D in the early 80s, but I do remember (vaguely) the psionics in that version.

Not knowing anything about 3.5, would psionics work as just a global enhancement tree, do you think?

[bartharok]

I THINK that there could be an universal tree in addition to the class (or instead of it, if they dont want it to exist), but it should be considerably less powerful than the class itself (in other words: minor to moderate effects)

[EllisDee37]

I THINK that there could be an universal tree in addition to the class (or instead of it, if they dont want it to exist), but it should be considerably less powerful than the class itself (in other words: minor to moderate effects)

Oh, I didn't realize Psionics was a class. Back in AD&D, psionics were extra abilities that any character could possess. Though I could be remembering that wrong. I do still have my early-80s Player's Handbook laying around somewhere...

EDIT: Aha, found my Player's Handbook from 1978 (!) and Dungeon Master's Guide from 1979 (!!). Let's see what I'm remembering:

Player's Handbook, Appendix I: Psionics

Psionics are various powers derived from the brain, and they enable characters so endowed to perform in ways that resemble magical abilities. If your DM opts to include psionic abilities in your campaign, they will be determined for humans (and possibly dwarves and halflings) as follows:

Characters with one or more unmodified intelligence, wisdom or charisma ability scores of 16 or higher might have psionic ability. Whether or not this ability is possessed is then determined by a dice roll using percentile dice. Any score of 00 (100%) indicates the ability exists. For each 1 point of intelligence above 16 add 2.5 to the dice roll, for each 1 point of wisdom above 16 add 1.5 to the dice roll, and for each 1 point of charisma above 16 add 0.5 to the dice roll (drop all fractions).

There is a fairly involved roll to determine your psionic power, then you can use half of it for attack and half for defense.

Attack Abilities
Psionic Blast
Mind Thrust
Ego Whip
Id Insinuation
Psychic Crush

Defense Abilities
Mind Blank
Thought Shield
Mental Barrier
Intellect Fortress
Tower of Iron Will

Then there's a table of psionic disciplines to roll on, which include a bunch of abilities that could fill out an enhancement tree nicely. There are minor devotions, major devotions, and a whole spell-list-looking ability list.

*sigh* The artwork in these old books (including Monster Manual, Deities and Demigods, and Fiend Folio) are dialing my nostalgia meter up to 11. Here's what I'm looking at:

[bartharok]

Oh, I didn't realize Psionics was a class. Back in AD&D, psionics were extra abilities that any character could possess. Though I could be remembering that wrong. I do still have my early-80s Player's Handbook laying around somewhere...

I think 2nd ed and on has had them as a class (optional)

[blerkington]

Hi,

I think if psionics were going to be added, an additional tree would be a nice easy way to do it. The powers could be done without needing to add psionic points too, via cooldowns, a charge mechanism, etc.

We already have psionic combat, and that is right here on the forums. If you spend just half an hour reading here, all of the attacks and defences can be found, the most common being Ego Whip and Blank Mind (sorry, Mind Blank), plus a few new ones as well.

Thanks.

[bartharok]

Hi,

I think if psionics were going to be added, an additional tree would be a nice easy way to do it. The powers could be done without needing to add psionic points too, via cooldowns, a charge mechanism, etc.

We already have psionic combat, and that is right here on the forums. If you spend just half an hour reading here, all of the attacks and defences can be found, the most common being Ego Whip and Blank Mind (sorry, Mind Blank), plus a few new ones as well.

Thanks.

Tower of Iron Will works well on the forums as well.

[SirValentine]

I think adding Psionics to DDO would be more trouble than it's worth, but I feel if they were to do it at all, they should do it right.

Add all the Psionic classes, and the races, and the monsters, and the psionic items (across all level ranges), plus the many psionic powers. Plus presumably content integrating it in to the story line. It would easily be a lot more work and make a much bigger expansion that Shadowfell was.

Would not like to see a half-baked little thing claimed as "adding Psionics to DDO". I mean, yes, you COULD just add a tree with some abilities and call it Psionics...but...

[bartharok]

I think adding Psionics to DDO would be more trouble than it's worth, but I feel if they were to do it at all, they should do it right.

Add all the Psionic classes, and the races, and the monsters, and the psionic items (across all level ranges), plus the many psionic powers. Plus presumably content integrating it in to the story line. It would easily be a lot more work and make a much bigger expansion that Shadowfell was.

Would not like to see a half-baked little thing claimed as "adding Psionics to DDO". I mean, yes, you COULD just add a tree with some abilities and call it Psionics...but...

I think the introduction of psionics could be started in a small way, just to get the feel of how it works, and then build up to the point where you would want it to be. And if it was done this way, the psionic tree could be a good way to start.

[blerkington]

Tower of Iron Will works well on the forums as well.

Hi,

Yes it does.

Psionics might also be a chance to add the very long overdue animation for a head explosion to the game.

Thanks.

[Lonnbeimnech]

I remember second edition psionics had a rule for wild ability or wild talent or something like that. players got to roll a d100 and if they rolled really high (I forget the %) they got a wild psionic ability. And if they met a psionicist that psionicist could help them unlock their ability at a later level if they failed to get that high number originally.


We only used the psionics handbook once and this was 20 years ago, so I'm a bit foggy on the details, but I could totally see that as a universal tree, like harper.

[bartharok]

Hi,

Yes it does.

Psionics might also be a chance to add the very long overdue animation for a head explosion to the game.

Thanks.

Umh, we would just need a cam that is on in the middle of a heated discusiion where one of the parties makes the right comment at the wrond time.

[blerkington]

Umh, we would just need a cam that is on in the middle of a heated discusiion where one of the parties makes the right comment at the wrond time.

Hi,

I'm not saying we'd need all exploding heads all the time, but the occasional one would be nice.

Either that or it popping off like a cork from a champagne bottle. Could be added to the Potion of Wonder effects table too.

Thanks.

[cdbd3rd]

I think 2nd ed and on has had them as a class (optional)

Psionics in 1st edition (as the OP refers to) was totally a pain, and did not mesh well with regular game play. For one, I recall the timing of psionic rounds made an entire psychic combat take place within the space of a single regular combat round, or some such.


Now 2nd edition, especially the Complete Psionics handbook , made them actually mesh better with the rest of a party.
(I may be slightly biased as my ex and her original gaming group are listed as play-testers for that book.)
There were minor powers and abilities that could be formed into a tree, I believe.


===
However, being we're supposed to be based on 3.5, I'm not sure how they were handled in that edition.

3.5 version does have it's own book..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complete_Psionic

[moomooprincess]

Psionics was a pain. Sounded cool, but if everyone is not a Psionicist, then there was not game play balance of everyone having a turn. I think it was 10 psionic attacks per physical melee.

Psionics was introduced in Eldritch Wizardry Supplement III, the one with the six demon types in it. Monks and Druids could not have Psionics.

I slowed it down to two per melee so the other players could play and eventually we all decided it was not that much fun.

Maybe in the MMO environment it would work better with the use of fast computer chips.

My vote, PLEASE DON'T ADD SOMETHING ELSE UNTIL SOME OF THE CURRENT THINGS ARE BETTER STABILIZED or at least sort of finished.

[Angelic-council]

Well... Psionic is a type of magic that uses supernatural energy to harm and destroy enemies. It's far from arcane and divine magic. There is also pisonic class(caster), but it doesn't have to be strictly a class. Yes, this could potentially be a new global tree. Because pisonics could also be ranged and melee type... to be honest, everything is possible with little twist.

Since we already have Harper tree, I don't want turbine end it with only 1 global tree. Same goes to iconics. They need to come up with something new, possibly STR, DEX and WIS base next time. And I don't mind pisonic to be the next, as long as it will be the counter of Harper tree.

[Maldrak]

Psionics could be done as a universal tree and would be easy to implement, possibly very useful as it gives stacking psionic type bonuses, and potentially adds different abilities than a class would normally have (ranged attacks for melee classes, Psionic defenses for squishy classes, etc). Also, Psi Points could simply be handled as a shared pool of charges, like boosts, which brings me to....

If you want to get right down to it, all the boosts are basically psionics already. They have a shared pool of limited uses, give bonus types that stack with all other bonus types (but not each other), and allow you to exceed humanoid norms for brief periods of time...

And on that note, psionics don't even need their own tree - they could simply be added as abilities in the already existing trees...

But if you wanted Psionics to be added to DDO in a P&P D&D 3.5 accurate way, then it'd require a MASSIVE expansion (classes, races, items, mobs, etc) and probably would result in some pretty scary downtime cycles as the game servers became self aware and began melting players' brains with all the extra mechanics... ;p

PS:

...Psionics might also be a chance to add the very long overdue animation for a head explosion to the game.

WTB: "/LFH" emote that makes your head explode and your headless body run around in circles looking for it!
(I bet Turbine could make some BANK selling THAT in the DDO store! - Quite probably enough to fund the Psionics expansion....)

Further money maker: More than one "skin" for /LFH... Confetti, Firework, Bloody, Implosion, Petrify and roll away.... Each can be sold separately...

[dkyle]

But if you wanted Psionics to be added to DDO in a P&P D&D 3.5 accurate way, then it'd require a MASSIVE expansion (classes, races, items, mobs, etc) and probably would result in some pretty scary downtime cycles as the game servers became self aware and began melting players' brains with all the extra mechanics... ;p

I don't really see it. Psionics isn't really that different from magic in 3.5.

The way magic works in DDO (with SP) is essentially like psionics already. Most powers and psionic items are just rethemed versions of spells and magic items. I don't see how psionic races and mobs would be much more trouble than any other races and mobs.

[moomooprincess]

WTB: "/LFHE" emote that makes your head explode and your headless body run around in circles looking for it!

...

I will BUY that with real money. ONLY money. Not TP. Not astral shards. Real, hard earned cash.

I will pay triple if I can do that to other players, only in public instances of course(limited to just two per day). Extra special bonus, have the head roll around and the player's viewpoint be from the head rolling around or perched wherever it lands.

[Alavatar]

Psionic classes in 3.5 work nearly exactly the same as a Sorcerer in DDO. You pick powers as you level that you "know" and you have a Power Point pool you use to "cast" those powers. The differences are:

• Psionics have no verbal, somatic, or material components
• Psionic powers allow you to spend more Power Points to increase the effect of the power (i.e. more damage, higher DC, longer duration, better positive effect for you, etc.)
  
  • In PnP, this was often overpowering because the Psionicist (the caster version was called a Psion) would save most of their Power Points until the boss battle, then use all of their points on one power to one-shot the boss. Worked almost every time.
  • This would be challenging to implement in DDO unless only a few limited options were given as a multi-select when putting the power in your hot bar.

Everything else was the equivalent to magic (SR worked against Psionics, Dispel worked against Psionics (and the Psionic Dispel worked against magic), etc.)

Including Psionics into DDO would be relatively simple as a result. (Except for creating new spells, classes, and enhancement trees)

[General_Gronker]

No.

AD&D psionics was a poorly designed, bashed together system. 2E wasn't much better. And since this game is based on 3rd edition, it's pretty obvious that's where the psionics rules should come from.