Would Psionics work as a global tree like Harper?

[EllisDee37]

My only P&P experience is from AD&D in the early 80s, but I do remember (vaguely) the psionics in that version.

Not knowing anything about 3.5, would psionics work as just a global enhancement tree, do you think?

[bartharok]

I THINK that there could be an universal tree in addition to the class (or instead of it, if they dont want it to exist), but it should be considerably less powerful than the class itself (in other words: minor to moderate effects)

[EllisDee37]

I THINK that there could be an universal tree in addition to the class (or instead of it, if they dont want it to exist), but it should be considerably less powerful than the class itself (in other words: minor to moderate effects)

Oh, I didn't realize Psionics was a class. Back in AD&D, psionics were extra abilities that any character could possess. Though I could be remembering that wrong. I do still have my early-80s Player's Handbook laying around somewhere...

EDIT: Aha, found my Player's Handbook from 1978 (!) and Dungeon Master's Guide from 1979 (!!). Let's see what I'm remembering:

Player's Handbook, Appendix I: Psionics

Psionics are various powers derived from the brain, and they enable characters so endowed to perform in ways that resemble magical abilities. If your DM opts to include psionic abilities in your campaign, they will be determined for humans (and possibly dwarves and halflings) as follows:

Characters with one or more unmodified intelligence, wisdom or charisma ability scores of 16 or higher might have psionic ability. Whether or not this ability is possessed is then determined by a dice roll using percentile dice. Any score of 00 (100%) indicates the ability exists. For each 1 point of intelligence above 16 add 2.5 to the dice roll, for each 1 point of wisdom above 16 add 1.5 to the dice roll, and for each 1 point of charisma above 16 add 0.5 to the dice roll (drop all fractions).

There is a fairly involved roll to determine your psionic power, then you can use half of it for attack and half for defense.

Attack Abilities
Psionic Blast
Mind Thrust
Ego Whip
Id Insinuation
Psychic Crush

Defense Abilities
Mind Blank
Thought Shield
Mental Barrier
Intellect Fortress
Tower of Iron Will

Then there's a table of psionic disciplines to roll on, which include a bunch of abilities that could fill out an enhancement tree nicely. There are minor devotions, major devotions, and a whole spell-list-looking ability list.

*sigh* The artwork in these old books (including Monster Manual, Deities and Demigods, and Fiend Folio) are dialing my nostalgia meter up to 11. Here's what I'm looking at:

[bartharok]

Oh, I didn't realize Psionics was a class. Back in AD&D, psionics were extra abilities that any character could possess. Though I could be remembering that wrong. I do still have my early-80s Player's Handbook laying around somewhere...

I think 2nd ed and on has had them as a class (optional)

[blerkington]

Hi,

I think if psionics were going to be added, an additional tree would be a nice easy way to do it. The powers could be done without needing to add psionic points too, via cooldowns, a charge mechanism, etc.

We already have psionic combat, and that is right here on the forums. If you spend just half an hour reading here, all of the attacks and defences can be found, the most common being Ego Whip and Blank Mind (sorry, Mind Blank), plus a few new ones as well.

Thanks.

[bartharok]

Hi,

I think if psionics were going to be added, an additional tree would be a nice easy way to do it. The powers could be done without needing to add psionic points too, via cooldowns, a charge mechanism, etc.

We already have psionic combat, and that is right here on the forums. If you spend just half an hour reading here, all of the attacks and defences can be found, the most common being Ego Whip and Blank Mind (sorry, Mind Blank), plus a few new ones as well.

Thanks.

Tower of Iron Will works well on the forums as well.

[JOTMON]

My only P&P experience is from AD&D in the early 80s, but I do remember (vaguely) the psionics in that version.

Not knowing anything about 3.5, would psionics work as just a global enhancement tree, do you think?

I like it.

introduce the psionics scaling power depending on enhancement investment
Could even open up opportunity for a Epic Destiny.

[Saekee]

Hi,

Yes it does.

Psionics might also be a chance to add the very long overdue animation for a head explosion to the game.

Thanks.

And vorpal hits should send heads rolling, then bouncing along on the ground.

Well... Psionic is a type of magic that uses supernatural energy to harm and destroy enemies. It's far from arcane and divine magic. There is also pisonic class(caster), but it doesn't have to be strictly a class. Yes, this could potentially be a new global tree. Because pisonics could also be ranged and melee type... to be honest, everything is possible with little twist.

Since we already have Harper tree, I don't want turbine end it with only 1 global tree. Same goes to iconics. They need to come up with something new, possibly STR, DEX and WIS base next time. And I don't mind pisonic to be the next, as long as it will be the counter of Harper tree.

I don't think they can add this--sounds like a mess--but it sounds very xoriat-like. Not sure if there is a connection? Quests in which psionic enemies can hit you and that nice improved evasion or MRR/PRR means nothing?
Would psionics be based on a stat like Charisma? That would help out all those poor pallies and bards.

[Angelic-council]

I don't think they can add this--sounds like a mess--but it sounds very xoriat-like. Not sure if there is a connection? Quests in which psionic enemies can hit you and that nice improved evasion or MRR/PRR means nothing?
Would psionics be based on a stat like Charisma? That would help out all those poor pallies and bards.

Yes, I agree with you. Psionic is a class, while Harper is the organization. I don't think turbine will add this to the global tree for that reason. But.. one of the interesting thing about psionic is that, they use supernatural powers. It's exactly the same like - how monks use their Ki. Psi powers are magical, but some of them are natural.. and treated like an action skill. Thus, it's not affected by any anti magics. Every characters (also monsters) in D&D hold this super power, but it doesn't mean everyone can use it. Even if you are a fighter or ranger, you have some sort of psi connection, and it's up to them to awaken it. I learned quite a lot about psi abilities. And I like how it's physical natural. Because it means, it could also be a global power. About stats -- first thing that comes in my mind is the wisdom, as they use mental power. 2ndly charisma (usually) and possibly Con/STR.

[bartharok]

Yes, I agree with you. Psionic is a class, while Harper is the organization. I don't think turbine will add this to the global tree for that reason. But.. one of the interesting thing about psionic is that, they use supernatural powers. It's exactly the same like - how monks use their Ki. Psi powers are magical, but some of them are natural.. and treated like an action skill. Thus, it's not affected by any anti magics. Every characters (also monsters) in D&D hold this super power, but it doesn't mean everyone can use it. Even if you are a fighter or ranger, you have some sort of psi connection, and it's up to them to awaken it. I learned quite a lot about psi abilities. And I like how it's physical natural. Because it means, it could also be a global power. About stats -- first thing that comes in my mind is the wisdom, as they use mental power. 2ndly charisma (usually) and possibly Con/STR.

What would be fun, would be to have the different disciplines use different stats. That way you could build the toon according to your wishes, and have different classses have different strengths when it comes to psionics.

[deuxanes]

My only P&P experience is from AD&D in the early 80s, but I do remember (vaguely) the psionics in that version.

Not knowing anything about 3.5, would psionics work as just a global enhancement tree, do you think?

SSI has published 2 games (Dark Sun & Dark Sun 2 in the Dark Sun campaign setting) where psionicist was one of several allowed class options.

You had 3 different disciplines (telepathy, psychometabolism & psychokinesis). Every character had proficiency with a discipline of his choice. Only a psionicist had access to all disciplines and could improve/ train powers.

Telepathy offered some mind protecting and manipulating powers. Psychometabolism offered some buffs (manipulating your own body by willpower) and limited healing capabilities. Psychokinesis offered offensive ranged powers.

Dunno. Maybe it's the computer adaptation and sometimes interesting concept don't translate well within that medium. Clerics, druids and wizards had a better spell selections. On the other hand psionicists didn't use spell slots, but used up psionic points. The amount of psionic points was determined by wisdom, intelligence and constitution (similar to spell points). Certain powers cost a set number of psionic point at use. Others had an additional cost factor for maintaining that effect for a longer period of time (e.g. a set numer of psionic points per round/ phase until not enough psionic points remained). I have to admit that psionics/ psionicists made certain encounters easier, especially when battling other psionicists.

On one hand an implementation as a global ehancement tree would allow everyone to train psionics and implementation would be comparably easier than any other solution. But is there a need to do it this way? Characters are already powerful with destinies, enhancement trees, etc. What would it bring to the table? If there are resources to implement such an enhancement tree, wouldn't it be possible to implement such a class as well? If such a class gets implemented how should the class be set up compared to the general enhancement tree?

A character that specialised in the telepathy discipline would mabye have a similar fate as enchanters. Psychokinesis could most likely end up being some kind of ranged DPS. Psychometabolism could benefit melee builds. There are some other powers I didn't mention (i.e. clairsentience), but they only shine in PnP where they could be used as story ploy.