Character Builder Lite

[EllisDee37]

One more if you don't have it; deselecting base stat categories doesn't auto-kick the preferred build points off of them. (forex: deselect adventurer, but pbp stays adventruer and now 'skills >' doesn't work, telling you to allocate the hidden stat.)

Great catch. Love those easy-to-fix esoteric bugs; I'll add that to the list.

Speaking of screen navigation, I've put very little time or effort into verifying that the navigation logic is proper. This is probably more of an issue with the Edit menu than the navigation links since you can use the Edit menu to jump directly to any screen. So if anyone finds that you can go to a screen you probably shouldn't be able to yet, let me know. ("Shouldn't be able to" as in something like going to skills before allocating stats.)

Which reminds me: There is absolutely no requirement beyond "Max Levels" being 20+ to go to the destiny screen. So I may have to rethink my original idea for the import logic that the "Stats" section would be part of any build. The destiny screen stands alone in that you don't even need a class split to define your destiny.

[mna]

I'm unhappy with the current bugs. I was hoping the next version released would be 1.0, but now with the current bugs ("Human" doesn't show up as the source for human bonus feats, enhancement totals are way screwy, an extra blank line is needed before the destiny output) I think I might do a 0.9.5 before 1.0. At this point in development I'm not thrilled with spamming you guys with so many updates before getting to a stable version, but I'd really like 1.0 to be a stable release I don't need to update with 1.0.1 three days later.

So reluctantly I'll say expect 0.9.5 some time this weekend.

Oh, a couple of things...

1) I managed to get a "subscript out of range" error clicking back and forth between the Destiny and Twists screens. Not immediately obivous what causes it, still haven't narrowed down exact conditions and having problems reproducing this reliably.
I think I did have full stats, skills, feats and enhancements I believe...

2) Trying to save (and not exit) and accidentally not giving a file name causes an exit without saving. So, a feature request to get a safety check there?


The latter could be a Wine library bug, but I don't think that very likely for the former.

[EllisDee37]

2) Trying to save (and not exit) and accidentally not giving a file name causes an exit without saving. So, a feature request to get a safety check there?

I'll look into that.

I'll also take a quick look at switching between destiny & twists to see if I can duplicate that runtime error. (My initial guess is that it might involve clearing some abilities with right-click.)


This morning I remembered that I actually wrote a full-fledged print w/print preview functionality for a VB6 program years and years ago. If I can find it and it's easy to adapt, would a printing function be useful? Right now you can just copy plain text to notepad and print that way, but I figure if it's easily adapted it might be nice to have a preview. (EDIT: I found the code; it's adaptable without too much trouble, but it wouldn't be overly quick so I may just put it on the wish list for after 1.0.)

[EllisDee37]

2) Trying to save (and not exit) and accidentally not giving a file name causes an exit without saving. So, a feature request to get a safety check there?

I'm unable to duplicate (or possibly understand) this one.

When I create a new build and make it "dirty" by choosing a race, when I then close the whole program I get a "Save build? Yes/No/Cancel" prompt. If I choose yes and blank out the save file name, clicking the "Save" button in the dialog does nothing; doesn't close the dialog, doesn't close the program. It continues to wait for a filename. If I choose "Cancel" in the save file dialog, the dialog closes and I'm returned to the program with the previous close command having been cancelled.

All of that is WAI, with no possibility for accidental close without saving unless you specifically choose "No" when it asks if you'd like to save. Is this different than the behavior you see? Am I misunderstanding?

EDIT: Regarding the runtime error in the destiny screen going back and forth between destiny and twists, yesterday I did find and fix a similar "Subscript out of range" error in the enhancement screen when switching from trees to enhancements. Is it possible you ran into the bug in enhancements, not destiny? (The error was when deleting a tree, if that tree was set as your Tier 5 tree it threw an error going from trees to enhancements. The fix was to have the program clear the Tier 5 entry if you delete the Tier 5 tree.)

[mna]

I'm unable to duplicate (or possibly understand) this one.

When I create a new build and make it "dirty" by choosing a race, when I then close the whole program I get a "Save build? Yes/No/Cancel" prompt. If I choose yes and blank out the save file name, clicking the "Save" button in the dialog does nothing; doesn't close the dialog, doesn't close the program. It continues to wait for a filename. If I choose "Cancel" in the save file dialog, the dialog closes and I'm returned to the program with the previous close command having been cancelled.

All of that is WAI, with no possibility for accidental close without saving unless you specifically choose "No" when it asks if you'd like to save. Is this different than the behavior you see? Am I misunderstanding?

Like I said, this one could well be a Wine bug, just tell me it works right on Windows and I'll leave it at that.


In the standard file dialog that pops up when trying to save in any case, if I just go on and click the default "Save" button (localized in my case, too) without touching the file name field at all, I get a stack dump termination, which obivously loses all unsaved data in the application.

If I blank out the file name it behaves as you described, and if I write something there it does use that as the filename just fine.


Now, the file name field looks like it's filled with "selected" space characters when the save dialog opens, so there might be something funny going on in that. On closer inspection, it seems that there's a suggestion based on the build name before the long string of spaces.

Are you by chance passing it a long field padded with spaces? Windows probably just drops strings of trailing spaces from filenames or something... reminds me of the time when one of my coworkers managed to make a file that was named <linefeed><bell><pagefeed>, three ASCII control characters...

wine: Unhandled page fault on write access to 0x00000260 at address 0x200022 (thread 0009), starting debugger...
Unhandled exception: page fault on write access to 0x00000260 in 32-bit code (0x00200022).
Register dump:
...

[EllisDee37]

Are you by chance passing it a long field padded with spaces?

I am indeed. As far as I can tell, that's how it needs to be sent for Windows. Under the hood what I'm doing is loading up a TypeDef structure with the appropriate values and sending that structure to an API call. So it's largely a black box kind of thing from my end.

I can play around with it a little, but as a general rule I'm not a huge fan of randomly changing API calls for testing. Makes me nervous. It does appear that in this particular instance I'm sending both a string (padded with spaces) and a length, so I can certainly try changing that length to the length of the actual string I'm sending.

EDIT: Actually, looking more closely, those extra spaces appear to provide the room if you change the filename (or path) to something larger. The API both receives and returns a very long string, set to the length MAX_PATH. I may not want to mess with it too much. Me no likey API calls. I wrote the wrapper code for these API calls over a decade ago.

[UurlockYgmeov]

So did the Ozymoronic Barbarian build on Lamannia today. Besides the fact that rage makes the wizard part basically useless - the build achieved most of its goals.

However, during the leveling process noted the following issues between live and the planner:

level 3 - game says 6 skill points - planner says 5level 3 - game says 6 spells (initial) planer says 3
level 7 - games says 7 skill points - planner says 6
level 11 - games says 9 skill points -  planner says 8
level 15 - games says 15 skill points -  planner says 14
level 19 - games says 12 skill points - planner says 11

other than that - spot on.

[EllisDee37]

So did the Ozymoronic Barbarian build on Lamannia today. Besides the fact that rage makes the wizard part basically useless - the build achieved most of its goals.

However, during the leveling process noted the following issues between live and the planner:

level 3 - game says 6 skill points - planner says 5
level 3 - game says 6 spells (initial) planer says 3
level 7 - games says 7 skill points - planner says 6
level 11 - games says 9 skill points -  planner says 8
level 15 - games says 15 skill points -  planner says 14
level 19 - games says 12 skill points - planner says 11

other than that - spot on.

For the skills, looks like the builder thinks you're a first life character using tomes as you level, but the game indicates you're a TR who used an int tome in a previous life. The builder determines which way to go based on what you choose for Preferred Build Points in the Stats screen. (Can't have tomes from a previous life if you're 28pt or 32pt because that's a first life build.) EDIT: Yep, I see the build file has a +6 int tome but is listed as 28pt for preferred build points.

Regarding spells, on lammania you're choosing 6 spells to inscribe. The builder ignores spell inscription entirely. The three spell slots you get at level 3 are the spells you can actively slot and cast. EDIT: For example, you have 7 wizard levels so can inscribe spells 7 different times as you level, but the builder only lists four spell lines because you can only cast level 4 spells. The idea would be you get to the inscription screen in the game and choose the five spells you list for level 1 spells, then any other spell at random which you never slot.

[UurlockYgmeov]

For the skills, looks like the builder thinks you're a first life character using tomes as you level, but the game indicates you're a TR who used an int tome in a previous life. The builder determines which way to go based on what you choose for Preferred Build Points in the Stats screen. (Can't have tomes from a previous life if you're 28pt or 32pt because that's a first life build.) EDIT: Yep, I see the build file has a +6 int tome but is listed as 28pt for preferred build points.

Regarding spells, on lammania you're choosing 6 spells to inscribe. The builder ignores spell inscription entirely. The three spell slots you get at level 3 are the spells you can actively slot and cast. EDIT: For example, you have 7 wizard levels so can inscribe spells 7 different times as you level, but the builder only lists four spell lines because you can only cast level 4 spells. The idea would be you get to the inscription screen in the game and choose the five spells you list for level 1 spells, then any other spell at random which you never slot.

yep that fixed the skills - had 'adventurer' selected.

spells - makes sense.

[EllisDee37]

EDIT: Actually, looking more closely, those extra spaces appear to provide the room if you change the filename (or path) to something larger. The API both receives and returns a very long string, set to the length MAX_PATH. I may not want to mess with it too much. Me no likey API calls. I wrote the wrapper code for these API calls over a decade ago.

The old VB6 board I used to frequent is still alive and kicking, so I asked about this over there.

[mna]

For the skills, looks like the builder thinks you're a first life character using tomes as you level, but the game indicates you're a TR who used an int tome in a previous life. The builder determines which way to go based on what you choose for Preferred Build Points in the Stats screen. (Can't have tomes from a previous life if you're 28pt or 32pt because that's a first life build.) EDIT: Yep, I see the build file has a +6 int tome but is listed as 28pt for preferred build points.

Except, well... you can actually have tomes from a "previous life" on a 28/32 pt character, of sorts - this routinely happens with Lesser and Epic Reincarnation, and yes, it does behave exactly that way there. And is actually a valid usage case for the planner, too.

I was sort of disappointed that my 28pt drow didn't get any more build points when epic-reincarnating.

[EllisDee37]

Except, well... you can actually have tomes from a "previous life" on a 28/32 pt character, of sorts - this routinely happens with Lesser and Epic Reincarnation, and yes, it does behave exactly that way there. And is actually a valid usage case for the planner, too.

I was sort of disappointed that my 28pt drow didn't get any more build points when epic-reincarnating.

Hmmm. Not entirely sure what to do about that.

[UurlockYgmeov]

Hmmm. Not entirely sure what to do about that.

maybe include check box - apply tomes because of reincarnation...

[EllisDee37]

maybe include check box - apply tomes because of reincarnation...

I'm not sure if it's worth it, to be honest.

On a side note, I'm guessing you're still getting all the extra linefeeds even with 0.9.4?

[Tesrali]

Did one of my builds. Looks awesome!!! TY!





18/2 Paladin/Fighter
Lawful Good Purple Dragon Knight


Level Order

1. Fighter 6. Paladin 11. Paladin 16. Paladin
2. Paladin 7. Paladin 12. Paladin 17. Paladin
3. Paladin 8. Paladin 13. Paladin 18. Paladin
4. Paladin 9. Paladin 14. Paladin 19. Paladin
5. Paladin 10. Paladin 15. Fighter 20. Paladin


Stats
28pt 32pt 34pt 36pt Tome Level Up
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- --------
Strength 16 16 16 16 +6 4: CHA
Dexterity 8 8 8 8 +6 8: CHA
Constitution 13 14 15 16 +6 12: CHA
Intelligence 13 14 14 14 +6 16: CHA
Wisdom 8 8 8 8 +6 20: CHA
Charisma 15 16 16 16 +6 24: CHA
28: CHA

Skills
F P P P P P P P P P P P P P F P P P P P
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
------------------------------------------------------------
Balance 2 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 11
------------------------------------------------------------
4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 0
20 5 5 5 5 5 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 7 7 7 7 7 7


Feats

1 : Single Weapon Fighting
1 PDK : Cleave
1 Fighter: Power Attack
2 Deity : Follower of: Amaunator
3 : Completionist
6 : Great Cleave
7 Deity : Amaunator's Brilliance
9 : Improved Single Weapon Fighting
12 : Greater Single Weapon Fighting
15 : Improved Critical: Piercing
15 Fighter: Shield Mastery
18 : Improved Shield Mastery
21 Epic : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic : Precision
26 Destiny: Perfect Single Weapon Fighting
27 Epic : Epic Fortitude
28 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting


Spells

1. Bless, Lesser Restoration, Lionheart, Divine Favor
2. Angelskin, Resist Energy, Remove Paralysis
3. Remove Curse, Magic Circle Against Evil
4. Holy Sword, Zeal

Enhancements (65 of 80 AP)

Purple Dragon Knight (1 AP)
• Damage Boost

Knight of the Chalice (39 AP)
• Slayer of Evil, Courage of Heaven, Slayer of Evil II, Improved Courage of Heaven, Slayer of Evil III
1. Extra Turning III, Extra Smite II
2. Divine Might III, Exalted Cleave III
3. Exalted Smite III, Charisma
4. Censure Demons, Empowered Smite, Charisma
5. Censure Outsiders, Holy Retribution I, Avenging Cleave III, Sealed Life

Harper Agent (5 AP)
• Agent of Good I
1. Weathered Traveler I, Traveler's Toughness III

Kensei (10 AP)
• Kensei Focus: Picks and Hammers
1. Extra Action Boost III, Haste Boost III

Destiny (24 AP)

Fury of the Wild
1. Primal Scream III, Fast Healing II, Strength
2. Acute Instincts III, Strength
3. Strength
4. Sense Weakness III, Overwhelming Force III
5. Fury Eternal
6. Unbridled Fury

Twists of Fate (22 fate points)
1. Grim Precision (Tier 3 Shadowdancer)
2. Sacred Ground (Tier 3 Crusader)
3. Consecration (Tier 2 Crusader)

[Vasax]

Release the source on GitHub = Win.

[UurlockYgmeov]

I'm not sure if it's worth it, to be honest.

On a side note, I'm guessing you're still getting all the extra linefeeds even with 0.9.4?

a - agree. KISS is best. Elegance is often expressed in simplisity.

b - shhh.... I blame msoft and winX.

[mna]

(checkbox to apply "previous life" tomes due to LR/ER on 28/32 point builds too)

I'm not sure if it's worth it, to be honest.

Well. Really a question of target audience here - you and I don't need it, but those who are less experienced might. But then I get the idea that you mostly expect that segment to use Ron's planner instead?


Skill points is really quite minor compared to using tomes for feat prerequisites in this, anyway.

Hm... well, on the other hand, +4 is the only stat tome to coincide with a standard feat level, right? So mostly affects bonus feat slots.


I'd probably put the checkbox in there anyway, and make it apply regardless of build points. I mean, you *can* be a second life without any significant tomes already... (my oldest son managed to farm 20 tokens and TR one of his characters without finding any tomes, and before getting Epic Destinies too. Also with less than 1750 favor total.)

[EllisDee37]

Did one of my builds. Looks awesome!!! TY!

Very cool.

Don't forget to check the BBCodes checkbox in the output screen for posting to the forums.

[kanordog]

Tried the builder with using my last PL and I found it really good.
Clean and quick just as I like it.

Thank You for putting (lot of) work into this project!