Axel's THF Melee Cleric Build

[axel15810]

(Updated 12/2/22)

Hey everyone! The build has now been updated as of Update 57. Below is what I'm running currently, and an up to date write up giving my thoughts on playing this build in today's meta. *Shameless plug* I'm also a DDO youtuber and have been forever, I upload DDO content regularly over there so please do me a favor and subscribe to My Youtube Channel. You can also Follow me on Twitter and Twitch.





Build Goal

Melee Cleric with as much DPS as possible while still remaining a fully capable main party healer in Reaper and in Raids. Using Falconry with WIS to hit/damage and CC with a focus on Two Handed Fighting utilizing Silvanus with Mauls. This build is not a top tier build but is plenty viable at any reaper skull level with proper gear and smart play.

Split

20 Cleric

Why pure?

We’re spending all of our enhancement points in Falconry, Radiant Servant and Vistani so there’s no extra points to spare for other class trees. Pure cleric gives the radiant servant capstone - not amazing but solid. Also, pure cleric gives more caster levels and more spell points which is a nice perk.

Splashing pally or fighter can certainly be a great alternative but again, we don’t have points to spare for those trees with this build. The fighter level isn’t a must with haste boost being available in Vistani as opposed to just Kensei - plus Vistani has some great low hanging fruit like deflect arrows and negative absorption. Also, be aware that if you splash Paladin you must be lawful good so you won't be able to be chaotic as I recommend in this post.

Running something like 17cleric/3 pally is a good split for a more defensive focused shield using healbot build. But while this build is a healer it is not only a healer, it is much more offensive focused so we’re not going to be investing in tanky trees. This build in comparison to a healbot brings some solid melee DPS. However, this build is giving up survivability in return for that DPS while still maintaining all the healing ability you’ll need for any situation. So in reaper and higher difficulties this build is going to be more inherently difficult to play as a result in comparison to a healbot. You can heal plenty well enough for any difficulty but won’t be as survivable as a healbot so your margin of error is lower. You’ll be able to take fewer hits so you need to play smarter.

The big payoff though is this build when utilized well is much more useful to the vast majority of parties than a healbot since not only can you bring all the heals the party will need, just like a healbot, but unlike a healbot you’ll add DPS to the party on top of it. It’s kind of like playing a THF fighter and a healbot all in one.


Race

Purple Dragon Knight or Aasimar Scourge

Please note, this build is only intended to be played with a race that has access to the Silvanus diety feat, or else it doesn’t make sense to use mauls. This religious feat gives bonuses to crit range and to hit/damage with mauls and is only selectable by a small number of races, and they are all iconics. The only races with Silvanus access are PDK, Scourge, Shadar-kai and Deep Gnome.

Of these four races, PDK and Aasimar Scourge are the two best choices. Both require you to purchase a +1 Lesser Heart of Wood from the DDO Store to remove the forced first iconic level if you want to follow the build as I’ve put it together. However, for PDK you could optionally choose to leave the fighter level if you don’t want to spend the DDO points for it. You’d miss out on the radiant servant capstone and 1 caster level but gain an additional feat. You’d also gain the option to access haste boost in tier 1 Kensei instead of tier 2 Vistani.

Which is better, PDK or Scourge? It's a toss up, they're about equally viable. The biggest difference is PDK gets an extra feat while Scourge gets +2 extra WIS. Take your pick which you prefer. It's worth noting Aasimar Scourge I'd argue also has a slightly better racial enhancement tree overall for this build in addition to the inherent +2 to WIS. So if you have a lot of racial past lives, and therefore a lot of extra racial tree only enhancement points, Scourge could be better since you’ll have an arguably better tree in which to spend those points. If you go Scourge you’ll have to either drop one of the feats I’ve listed below (I’d recommend dropping Empower) or splash a fighter level to get another feat. I don’t spend any points in racial trees, I don’t have any racial past lives at the time of this post and I utilize radiant servant burst a lot so I opt for PDK for the free feat which allows me to take Empower for even better bursts.

Note you can also use Deep Gnome with this build, another WIS based race just like Scourge, but since Scourge’s tree fits this build better than Deep Gnome’s and Deep Gnome gets -2 STR and -2 CHA inherently there's no reason to choose it over Scourge unless you just want it for flavor or that particular past life. Same goes for Shadar-kai. You technically could choose it since it has access to Silvanus but again, there’s not any reason to pick it other than flavor or unless you want that particular past life.

Starting Stats

1st priority WIS, max it. Next priority is CON. The only other stat that really matters is STR (This build is WIS based but needs some STR to meet feat requirements). CHA gives extra turns, but we have plenty regardless so just dump CHA.

I’m not listing an exact split because your starting stats depend entirely on what STR tome, if any, that you have. This is because you’ll need enough base STR (points invested in the stat + STR tomes) to meet feat requirements.

You must have a total of 13 base STR to take Power Attack, 15 to take the THF feat and 17 to take the ITHF and GTHF feats. This is very important to not overlook. Be sure you have this amount of STR at each level you plan to take these feats. You should end up with base STR of 17 and no more.

Skills

Heal, UMD, Jump

Heal boosts positive spellpower so is a no brainer, UMD is invaluable for convenience - mainly teleport scrolls but also various other buffs via wands/scrolls. Jump you should take enough to hit the cap of 40 after applying any jump items/buffs. Going over 40 doesn’t help you. Any extra points can go wherever you’d prefer. Diplomacy (to hit various skills checks in quests) and Haggle (for more plat) are my top 2 choices. But the 4th choice really doesn’t matter much.

Alignment

True Neutral or Chaotic Neutral

It doesn't matter much. However, being Chaotic means we would get +2 extra imbue dice from the Harbinger of Chaos feat if we had access to an imbue toggle. But since we don't currently have access to a toggle under the enhancement tree split of radiant servant tier 5 and falconry tier 4 we can't benefit from this dice. Our only possible toggle is in Warpriest tier 4. You may wish to just go True Neutral in order to be immune to any alignment based damage.

PDK Feat Selection by Level

**Important Disclaimer** The below feat selection order assumes you are starting as an Iconic character at level 15. This feat order will not make sense if you’re starting at level 1.

I take the melee feats later in order to give STR tomes time to kick in to assist in meeting feat requirements (I have a +8 STR tome here). And since the lowest I’m ever starting is at level 15 it doesn’t matter if I take them later. Doing this allows me to start with a lower STR at character creation, wasting less points in a useless stat.

If you’re playing this build on the hardcore server where you’ll start at level 1 as an iconic you’ll want to take the melee feats earlier obviously and take more STR to meet their requirements.

(Again, you need a total of 13 base STR to take Power Attack, 15 to take the THF feat and 17 to take the ITHF and GTHF feats)

If Scourge race, drop Empower.



Class and Feat Selection
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Level Class · · · · · ·Feats
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Level 1 Requires a +1 Heart of Wood to switch out of Iconic Class
1 · · Cleric(1) · · · ·Standard: Maximize Spell
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Purple Dragon Knight Bonus: Empower Healing Spell
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Follower of Faith: Favored by Silvanus
2 · · Cleric(2) · · · ·Domain: War Domain Tier I
3 · · Cleric(3) · · · ·Standard: Quicken Spell
4 · · Cleric(4) · · · ·Wisdom: +1 Level up
5 · · Cleric(5) · · · ·Domain Feat: War Domain Tier II
6 · · Cleric(6) · · · ·Standard: Power Attack
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Deity: Blessing of Silvanus
7 · · Cleric(7) · · · ·
8 · · Cleric(8) · · · ·Wisdom: +1 Level up
9 · · Cleric(9) · · · ·Standard: Two Handed Fighting
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Domain Feat: War Domain Tier III
10· · Cleric(10)· · · ·
11· · Cleric(11)· · · ·
12· · Cleric(12)· · · ·Standard: Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Wisdom: +1 Level up
13· · Cleric(13)· · · ·
14· · Cleric(14)· · · ·Domain Feat: War Domain Tier IV
15· · Cleric(15)· · · ·Standard: Improved Two Handed Fighting
16· · Cleric(16)· · · ·Wisdom: +1 Level up
17· · Cleric(17)· · · ·
18· · Cleric(18)· · · ·Standard: Greater Two Handed Fighting
19· · Cleric(19)· · · ·
20· · Cleric(20)· · · ·Wisdom: +1 Level up
21· · Epic(1) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Overwhelming Critical
22· · Epic(2) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
23· · Epic(3) · · · · ·
24· · Epic(4) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Intensify Spell
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Wisdom: +1 Level up
25· · Epic(5) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Doublestrike
26· · Epic(6) · · · · ·
27· · Epic(7) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Empower Spell
28· · Epic(8) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Crush Weakness
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Wisdom: +1 Level up
29· · Epic(9) · · · · ·
30· · Epic(10)· · · · ·Epic Feat: Beloved of the Divine
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Legendary: Scion of Arborea
31· · Legendary(1)· · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Harbinger of Chaos
32· · Legendary(2)· · ·Wisdom: +1 Level up



Domain

War Domain

This is the domain you should take because it gives the Holy Sword SLA, giving a +1 competence bonus to critical damage range and critical damage multiplier. That makes this is our clear choice of domain because it's easily the best for increasing our melee DPS. As a bonus, you also buff yourself and anyone near you +10 melee and range power every time you use Radiant Servant Burst or Aura. Please note, we don't need to give up DPS for even more healing by taking a domain like the Healing Domain. The healing abilities this build has is already plenty sufficient to serve as a party healer. And Holy Sword is way too much DPS to be worth giving up for the extra survivability a Domain like Animal offers. There aren't any viable alternatives to War Domain for this build.

Heroic Enhancements



As a party healer I want tier 5 radiant servant for the no max caster levels on cure spells most of all, but also for aura.

Falconry gives us WIS to hit/damage (be aware the tier 3 is bugged and gives both to hit and damage with WIS so as shown in the image, do not take the tier 2 Killer Instinct 1). The tier 4 in Falconry is amazingly good. -50% fort debuff on Falconry attacks, An AoE blind for our go to CC, 30% extra helpless damage and a WIS based trance for extra damage. There's also all kinds of other goodies to grab in the cores and in tiers 1, 2 and 3 as shown in the image.

Vistani is super important, haste boost is so good that it is absolutely mandatory to get it either here or in Kensei (by splashing fighter). Vistani can be unlocked on a per character basis by running all the regular Ravenloft quests on elite or higher, or by buying the tree outright in the DDO store. If you don't have the tree unlocked already I would highly recommend running the heroic Ravenloft saga on Elite or higher be the first thing you do after creating your level 15 character so you can get haste boost. You can also get a good starter maul for free by talking to the NPC in the Barovian wilderness right after finishing the Into the Mists quest.

Why don't you use the Warpriest tree?

Short answer, Falconry is just an objectively better tree. It’s a better option in basically every area that matters. Warpriest is very weak in its current state and no melee cleric should ever use it as a primary tree. It fails to be worth putting a substantial investment in on any kind of melee cleric compared to spending those points in Falconry. You could certainly justify a small investment, but nobody should invest as high as tier 4 or tier 5 except in some niche use situations for Divine Intervention (such as if you wanted to solo the Strahd raid and need it to deal with grip). SSG, if you’re reading this please consider giving Warpriest a much needed overhaul so it can be competitive as a primary tree.

Epic Destiny Enhancements



I've spent considerable time experimenting with all the relevant destiny trees at this point and this is what I feel is the most optimal tree split for this build.

Fury of the Wild (Adrenaline in particular) is way too good to pass up. Adrenaline bonuses throughout the tree and the tier 5 being amazing for two handed fighting make it a clear choice for our tier 5. Note that you should not take any of the enhancements in this tree that give or provide extra benefits for barbarian rage, as we can't rage since that would prevent us from casting any spells (we are a party healer after all). The primal rage buff in tier 2 is fine to use though, that buff does not prevent spellcasting.

Sentinel is really important because of renewal, which is just invaluable to have. It gives us another cheap healing SLA to go alongside our cure moderate wounds SLA, and our only good source of pre-healing. Renewal is pretty much mandatory if you’re healing a tank as well, since you can hit them with this preheal/healing over time effect to go along side whatever else you’re healing the tank with. There’s also a lot of nice offensive and survivability stuff in Sentinel such as extra to hit and the Into the Fray enhancement in tier 3. It’s also another melee tree so that means 15 more melee power from the cores.

Shadowdancer gives +6 DCs for Falconry attacks via the tier 1 assassinate enhancement which is the primary reason to take this tree. Though everything else there I take up to tier 3 such as doublestrike, sneak attack die and 3 more melee cores for 15 more melee power and other bonuses all synergize very well too. We also get a handy Ddoor clicky in the 2nd core.

Why not use Angel destiny? That aura from the mantle is amazing!

The other 3 trees I use are just more essential and giving up our mantle, 15 melee power from cores plus having to dip into tier 3 to get it is just too expensive and the synergy overall is not good enough for Exalted Angel to be worth it. And while I would love to have the aura from Angel on this build it’s not as essential as the other trees. Bottom line is we don’t need the extra healing SLAs and such from Angel, and the Epic Strikes would conflict with Adrenaline. We can already sufficiently serve as a party or raid healer and have enough healing SLAs and spells already so more doesn’t really matter that much. I heal R10s and any raid no problem with this build. Believe me, you don't need to sacrifice DPS in your destiny tree choices in order to get more healing. Radiant servant, being 17 cleric, proper gearing and taking Renewal make us already plenty capable enough of healing R10s and raids.

Why no Divine Crusader?

I don’t use Divine Crusader for many reasons. But the bottom line is Shadowdancer and Sentinel are just more essential for reasons I stated above, and we don’t use shields or have the hotkey real estate to bother with smite evil so it just doesn’t synergize with this build. And Adrenaline again, is far too good to pass up for Consecrated Ground even though I really like that ability. Crusader is now much more focused on shield users than it was prior to the Epic Destiny pass in Update 51, particularly shield user paladins, and doesn’t synergize particularly well with this build anymore.

Reaper Enhancements



Not a lot to say here. Just make sure you grab Reaper’s Strike from tier 1 Dread Adversary because it’s incredibly powerful for just 4 reaper points since it doesn’t share a cooldown with Haste Boost so you can use them together for some extremely good burst DPS synergy.

Remember second and higher cores in reaper trees apply even outside of reaper mode so the crazy amount of extra hitpoints you can get from Grim Barricade’s cores means I tend to plop most of my points into that tree since the melee bonuses outside of the aforementioned Reaper’s Strike in Dread Adversary are rather minor in comparison. Obviously the goal down the line though is to gain max reaper points so I can take both but I only have 43 reaper points as of the writing of this post.

Past Lives

Not required for this build, it is first life friendly, but they obviously help.

Epic past lives are your best bang for the buck when it comes to time vs. benefit gained. The most important being 3x Martial Doublestrike past lives for a 9% doublestrike toggle. This is what you should go for first if you want to jump on the reincarnation train. Primal past lives are very nice for extra hitpoints as are Divine past lives for more PRR. Epic past lives in general are helpful for more fate points and eventually more epic destiny points.

Paladin, Sacred Fist, Barbarian and Fighter are the most useful for heroic past lives. Paladin gives extra healing amp, Sacred Fist gives extra healing amp and positive spell power, Barbarian gives extra hitpoints and Fighter gives extra to hit.

The best iconic past life bonuses are the toggles from either Aasimar Scourge for extra doublestrike or from Razorclaw Shifter for extra to hit and damage.

Racial past lives are not required either but obviously are great for extra racial action points and extra stats. Human and Aasimar racial past lives for the extra rank of WIS is the most helpful of the races but extra racial enhancement points from 3x racial in any race are obviously amazing to have too.

Playstyle

In Reaper, focus on debuffing/CC’ing enemies with falconry attacks while healing the party. Do Melee DPS as well of course but healing is generally your first priority. Stay back and heal in Reaper when it gets too dangerous for you to be up front melee'ing. The most important skill you'll need to master when playing this build at higher difficulties is to know when to melee and when to step back and heal. You have to get a feel for the party and play accordingly. You don’t want to get too aggressive and die, but you also don’t want to be a liability and not contribute in terms of offense to your party when healing isn’t much needed. Some parties (in high Reaper mode particularly) will require you to play more cautiously and do more healing while lower difficulties and very self-sufficient parties may let you focus almost soley on CC and DPS.

Endgame Gearset

I don't have this updated yet as of Update 57, but am planning to add this at some point when I get it together.

[Son_of_the_South]

Hey Axel,

Thanks for posting the build. Love the channel; long time listener, first time caller (watched the EE Chrono run, grats!).

For a heroic PL, what leveling order would you recommend? I get that this is a mainly epic build but I'd love to try it out & next life is Cleric.
NB: I won't be taking 18 or 19, just straight to 20.

Would it be worth taking Stunning Blow in place of something like GTHF?

Cheers,

SotS

[axel15810]

Hey Axel,

Thanks for posting the build. Love the channel; long time listener, first time caller (watched the EE Chrono run, grats!).

For a heroic PL, what leveling order would you recommend? I get that this is a mainly epic build but I'd love to try it out & next life is Cleric.
NB: I won't be taking 18 or 19, just straight to 20.

Would it be worth taking Stunning Blow in place of something like GTHF?

Cheers,

SotS

Thanks! The EE chrono solo was a serious pain, but got through it. Lol, probably not ever doing it again though!

Go with the fighter level early, level 1 or 2. You have to have it for martial proficiencies - plus you want that haste boost as soon as possible. Saves and bloated HP from my experience aren't that vital until epics, so I'd take all cleric levels next to get my spells as early as possible until you are 15 cleric/ 1 fighter. You especially want to not put off blade barrier or your radiant servant abilities. Then take the paladin levels.

I actually tried out taking stunning blow a year or two ago - at one time I was a Half Orc 17 cleric/2 fighter / 1 wizard and geared for it.

It's nice to have, especially in epic hard. But overall my conclusion was it requires too much investment to get your DC up high enough for it to be worth it. Probably giving up a gear slot for exceptional stunning, twist slot or destiny tree points, APs for stunning enhancements, not to mention the feat. And even still it's really hard to get it reliable in the high EE stuff.

It's just too much to give up in my opinion. With the epic boots of the innocent I'm wearing now having stunning on them it certainly helps since I slot that anyway. Still don't think it's worth it, especially with all the immune undead we have at endgame now. I don't think it would be all that helpful in heorics, mobs don't have a lot of HP until epics - someone else might disagree.

[firemedium_jt]

Why not take Precision?


__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____________________



*** Some might be turned off by the lack of spell points. It is not a problem. Trust me. ***



Currently running CLR11/PAL3/FTR1 @lvl15 Purple Dragon Knight. Just some casual newbie advice added.
I have run multiple Melee Clerics. This will be similar with CLR15/PAL3/FTR2. In heroic I barely use rest shrines while other caster clerics are constantly running out of mana. They cast Blade Barrier a lot.
I can tell you the damage output and large swings from Cleave, Great Cleave and then Exalted Cleave are the same as casting Blade Barrier if you use a Falchion like I do with lots of critical going off.


Just some simple easy to get auction house gear suggestions for the casual players like me:

This build has enough Healing output for Heroic levels that a lot of Devotion is not needed for lvls1-20.
Radiance and Radiance Lore are more useful in Heroic for Divine Punishment.
In epic it is easier to gear Devotion and Impulse with Radiance using consolidated gear with 3-4 buffs on each.
You will also need a nice Combustion along with Combustion lore in Epic for Divine Crusader.
In Heroic I just use a Belt of Seven or a Potency item for around 40+ spell power, and only carry a best Radiance spell power item and Radiance Lore cause Divine Punishment is about the only thing that drains my mana against Bosses.
I use Blade Barrier when I get too far ahead of the group and pull a lot of agro and monsters
In Heroic Deadly, and especially Accuracy are important if you leave Power Attack on. Seeker helps if you can fit it in.
I find myself using Divine Power items less with a deeper Melee splash, but if in less of a healing role in a group spending time doing a quick gear swap to use Divine Power helps your melee attack speed by increasing your BAB to character level.


You get a lot of Turn Undeads from this build and the Pally turns stack with Cleric turn addition enhancements. Running with 17 turns and they regenerate.

I delayed my level up to run some VON flagging in House K for more XP. With all the gear you will need to run Coinlord quests first for that Iconic toon you just made to get inventory slots. These melee Casters require lots of gear.

The Trinket and Hat for PDK are nice for healing amp and fortification.

Quests I ran as new Iconic:

Waterworks to try out the build and get things organized for Coinlord favor
Lordmarch quests for more Coinlord favor and tweaking and some XP. There is your free inventory.
Then off to VON Flagging holding off on lvl16 for House K and bank slot and some XP at lvl15.
At lvl15-16 Gianthold flagging for nice XP and Collapsible Portable Hole for second inventory slot.

Now it is off to VALE for XP runs with my PARALYZING FALCHION!!!
Fun times so far.

A powerful simple build.
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...lr15-pal3-ftr2

[axel15810]

Why not take Precision?

Because from posts I've read it's mostly a wash in terms of DPS since you have to turn off power attack to use it. And since this is a THF build that's 10 damage per swing. If you've seen math that shows otherwise, please post it I'm all ears. I've looked myself but haven't come across anything.

[firemedium_jt]

Because from posts I've read it's mostly a wash in terms of DPS since you have to turn off power attack to use it. And since this is a THF build that's 10 damage per swing. If you've seen math that shows otherwise, please post it I'm all ears. I've looked myself but haven't come across anything.

Did not know that. It was a suggestion that was made to me, but I like PA better. Never used Precision. That is a shame.

[EllisDee37]

Precision is for fort-mob quests. (Undead, constructs, plants, elementals.) It is hand-down superior dps compared to power attack against those mobs. It's not even really close.


To the OP, any consideration for going warforged so that you could take warpriest righteous weapons line with greatswords?

[axel15810]

Precision is for fort-mob quests. (Undead, constructs, plants, elementals.) It is hand-down superior dps compared to power attack against those mobs. It's not even really close.

Can you link math? Like I said in the prior post I've yet to see any math to back this up for a THF build. If you can link some I'm all ears.

To the OP, any consideration for going warforged so that you could take warpriest righteous weapons line with greatswords?

Nope, to me the warpriest tree and the righteous weapons line just isn't very good. Not worth the APs. Not to mention TF Falchion has the better crit profile, I wouldn't want to be stuck using greatswords. And warforged hurts your aura, loses you a feat (actually 2 feats since you'll have to take adamantine body) and gives you -2 CHA and -2 WIS. And the construct immunities aren't a big deal since clerics have stuff like greater restore and busts to easily deal with it. I think human is clearly better.

[EllisDee37]

Can you link math? Like I said in the prior post I've yet to see any math to back this up for a THF build. If you can link some I'm all ears.

I haven't seen any to link, but it's not overly difficult to run the numbers now. And now I'm kind of curious as well.

Assumptions
15-20x2 crit profile (falchion w/improved critical)
Hit on a 2
Always confirm criticals
5% fort bypass from ship buff


Let's call your base damage "x". We have a 95% chance to do base damage, and a 30% chance to do an additional (1x) base damage over and above that.

No fort
P. Attack: 0.95 * (x+10) + 0.3 * (x+10) = (0.95x + 9.5) + (0.3x + 3) = 1.25x + 12.5 every swing
Precision: 0.95 * x + 0.3 * x = 1.25x every swing

So against 0% fort, power attack does an extra 12.5 every swing. Solid in heroics, kind of meh at endgame.

100% fort
P. Attack: 0.95 * (x+10) + 0.05 * 0.3 * (x+10) = (0.95x + 9.5) + (0.015x + 0.15) = 0.965x + 9.65 every swing
Precision: 0.95 * x + 0.3 * 0.3 * x = 0.95x + 0.09x = 1.04x every swing

Precision's "x" multiplier is higher than power attack's, meaning the higher x is, the better precision does. If we set both equations equal to each other, we can solve for x where both power attack and precision do the same damage. Any "x" greater than that means precision is better. Let's see what x equals:

1.04x = 0.965x + 9.65
0.075x = 9.65
x = 128.67

That means if your base damage (left-most number only) is 128, you do the same dps with either. Higher than 128 and precision does more dps. Lower than 128, power attack does more.

Only 5% bypass with ship buff is kind of lowballing, though. Let's figure in an additional 35% armor piercing from thunderforge:

100% fort w/Dragon's Edge + Ship Buff
P. Attack: 0.95 * (x+10) + 0.4 * 0.3 * (x+10) = (0.95x + 9.5) + (0.12x + 1.2) = 1.07x + 10.7 every swing
Precision: 0.95 * x + 0.65 * 0.3 * x = 0.95x + 0.195x = 1.145x every swing

1.145x = 1.07x + 10.7
0.075x = 10.7
x = 142.67

So the more bypass you have, the better power attack looks. Precision is still better at a fairly low number for endgame.

Other mitigating factors to consider:
- Increased power attack damage from enhancements (eg: warforged)
- Increased [W] damage for power attack (eg: legendary dreadnought)
- Increased precision damage (eg: swashbuckler)
- Not hitting on a 2 (precision hits more frequently than power attack, and confirms more criticals)
- Additional fort bypass (eg: twist in Grim Precision from Shadowdancer) raises the bar, I'm guessing to the 150s
- Bonuses to crit profile (eg: overwhelming critical, celestial champion)

EDIT: Totally spaced seeker. That complicates the math a bit, and favors precision.

[EllisDee37]

Now I'm curious how it shakes out to add in some of those mitigating factors. Same assumptions as above, plus:

Celestial Champion (+1 crit range, meaning 40% instead of 30%)
Overwhelming critical (adds (1x + s) 10% of the time you bypass fort)
Improved Power Attack from LD (+0.5[W] on a falchion = +0.5[2d4] = +2.25 per hit)
55% fort bypass base (35% dragon's edge + 15% grim precision + 5% ship buff)
17 Seeker (consuming darkness + steady handed armbands)

Against 100% fort: (formula structured as base + crit + seeker + overwhelming crit)

Power Attack
0.95 * (x+2.25+10) + 0.55 * 0.4 * (x+2.25+10) + 0.55 * 0.4 * (2*17) + 0.55 * 0.1 * ((x+2.25+10) + 17) =
0.95x + 11.6375 + 0.22x + 2.695 + 7.48 + 0.055x + 0.67375 + 0.935 =
1.225x + 23.42125

Precision
0.95 * x + 0.8 * 0.4 * x + 0.8 * 0.4 * (2*17) + 0.8 * 0.1 * (x + 17) =
0.95x + 0.32x + 10.88 + 0.08x + 1.36 =
1.35x + 12.24

1.35x + 12.24 = 1.225x + 23.42125
0.125x = 11.18125
x = 89.45


If your non-crit base damage (left-most number only) is above 90, precision is more dps against 100% fort mobs.

[Bill_Jones]

Very nice video, Axel. I'm using a similar build on a static group toon; I think my enhancements are not exact, and I have no SoS, but it does decent damage.
Thanks for the video! Time to reset enchacements

PS: EllisDee's math makes my head hurt

[axel15810]

I haven't seen any to link, but it's not overly difficult to run the numbers now. And now I'm kind of curious as well.

+1, you must have spent a good amount of time on that.

I'm a little confused on what some of your numbers represent but when I get some more time I'll look through it more thoroughly.

[axel15810]

Very nice video, Axel. I'm using a similar build on a static group toon; I think my enhancements are not exact, and I have no SoS, but it does decent damage.
Thanks for the video! Time to reset enchacements

Very cool, hope it works out for you. The heroic SoS is nice for heroics (I never did get that epic SoS shard). Greensteel LIT2 works great as well though.

And yeah sorry it took me so long to get this video out. I know I've been promising it for a while. I spent some time experimenting with different enhancement combinations before deciding on this one which was part of the reason why it took so long. Also I wanted to get to level 28 and get that EE Chrono solo done to prove this is a good build before putting it out there.

[EllisDee37]

+1, you must have spent a good amount of time on that.

Yeah, no joke. Based on timestamps, I ended up spending 70+ minutes down the rabbithole, which doesn't include the time it took to compose the first draft of the first breakdown. (Which was missing half the math that's in there now.)

I'm a little confused on what some of your numbers represent but when I get some more time I'll look through it more thoroughly.

Best place to start is the Precision breakdown in the second post with the colors. It's the most straightforward, where "x" is equal to your base damage. The power attack formula is the same, except it looks much uglier because "x" is replaced with "(x+2.25+10)" to represent the extra 10 damage power attack does plus the extra 2.25 you get from +0.5[W] with Improved Power Attack.

[Steelraccoon]

Love the post and the video.... lots of good info there. I did have one question about the build though.... at what levels do you take the various classes?? I'd really like to try the build out but being a new player, I really have no idea about when to take what class. The enhancements I would imagine would be pretty straight forward.... try to get to 32 in The main cleric tree by level 12 for the radiant aura heals and then fill in the rest as you can. Is that a correct assumption?

[axel15810]

Love the post and the video.... lots of good info there. I did have one question about the build though.... at what levels do you take the various classes?? I'd really like to try the build out but being a new player, I really have no idea about when to take what class. The enhancements I would imagine would be pretty straight forward.... try to get to 32 in The main cleric tree by level 12 for the radiant aura heals and then fill in the rest as you can. Is that a correct assumption?

I prefer:

1 cleric
2 fighter
3-16 cleric
17-20 paladin

Definitely take the fighter level very early. You need it for martial proficiency and it's awesome to get that haste boost and extra feat early.

The paladin levels are more flexible. I put them off because I don't find saves and the +20% HP very important until epics. And you want your cleric spells like blade barrier as early as possible.

And yes I try and get aura as soon as possible but my biggest priorities are to get bursts, divine might, haste boost and damage boost quickly. If the aura has to wait an extra level I'd be OK with it rather than give up divine might, haste boost or damage boost.

[firemedium_jt]

Love the post and the video.... lots of good info there. I did have one question about the build though.... at what levels do you take the various classes?? I'd really like to try the build out but being a new player, I really have no idea about when to take what class. The enhancements I would imagine would be pretty straight forward.... try to get to 32 in The main cleric tree by level 12 for the radiant aura heals and then fill in the rest as you can. Is that a correct assumption?

What level are you starting out?


I would go for Human:

1 CLR1 (PDK then FTR1 here) [CLR1 at lvl1 allows more versatility for Lesser Rez due to Dev changes to the game]
2 FTR1 [Take FTR1 early for melee]

CLR11 ASAP after FTR1 cause you are a Cleric after all and Heal, Divine Punishment, and Blade Barrier are nice at mid lvl.
PAL3 for Saves and HP are useful at these mid to high lvls.
Thats 15 lvls and your Iconic build



Here is my PDK build:

(Just deciding if I should drop Ruin and take Precision at lvl21. You can't use it with power attack, but it is seems useful from the debate in another thread going on against Fortified opponents)

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.23.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

CLR15PAL3FT2 
Level 28 Lawful Good Purple Dragon Knight Male
(2 Fighter \ 3 Paladin \ 15 Cleric \ 8 Epic) 
Hit Points: 351
Spell Points: 1205 
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 21
Reflex: 11
Will: 15

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 28)
Strength             16                    23
Dexterity            11                    13
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom               11                    12
Charisma             16                    17

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 21 (Pre. Req. if I take Prescision)

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 28)
Balance               2                    19
Bluff                 3                    11
Concentration         2                    35
Diplomacy             3                    14
Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
Haggle                3                    11
Heal                  0                    12
Hide                  0                     9
Intimidate            3                    11
Jump                  3                    14
Listen                0                     9
Move Silently         0                     9
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                  n/a
Repair               -1                     7
Search               -1                     7
Spellcraft           -1                     7
Spot                  0                     9
Swim                  3                    14
Tumble                1                    10
Use Magic Device      4                    12

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Cleave
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Cleric)
Feat: (Deity) Favored by Amaunator


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 4 (Cleric)


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Paladin)


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
Enhancement: Purple Dragon Knight - Human Versatility: Damage Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Purple Dragon Knight - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Holy Bastion (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Healing Domain (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Pacifism (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Positive Energy Burst (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Extra Turning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Extra Turning (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Extra Turning (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Wand Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Wand Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Wand Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Altruism (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Altruism (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Altruism (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Improved Turning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Improved Turning (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Improved Turning (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Intense Healing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Unyielding Sovereignty (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Endless Turning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Endless Turning (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Endless Turning (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Incredible Healing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Wisdom (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Positive Energy Aura (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Smite Foe (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wall of Steel (Rank 1)


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Improved Empower Healing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Slayer of Evil I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Courage of Heaven (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Smite (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Smite (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Cleave (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Cleave (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Cleave (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Smite (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Smite (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Smite (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Resilience of Battle (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wall of Steel (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wall of Steel (Rank 3)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Ruin


Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting

Low to mid lvl the FTR1 and CLR11 come in real handy. The Saves from Pal3 is not really needed this early, and you give up too much delaying CLR11. Lvl6 spells are the best and very powerful along with Divine Punishment for Heroic even on a Melee Cleric.

There are some arguments supporting on a 2hdr taking Cleave and Great Cleave early, but really they are overkill for low lvl and really shine when you get nice Prefix weapons at mid to high lvl like Paralyzers against mobs. After Power Attack and Improved Critical Slash for melee you need Empower Healing, Maximize, and Quicken ASAP, IMHO. Max helps your burst healing at low lvl. Radiant Burst is your best mass healing at low lvl. Until you can get Radiant Burst you can get Ameroliating Strike at around lvl 4-5, so invest in the War Priest tree early then at CLR6 dump it for Radiant Burst. Until you get Radiant Burst and Aura invest more in other trees like Human is a small investment along with Kensi and FTR Haste. Huge returns for those Tier 1s in Human and FTR. Always have Human Healing Amp, Human Damage Boost, and FTR Haste. Then move around the other trees.

Get Aura ASAP. It is your best healing thing to do.

Since you seem new from your join date some gear I would recommend:

The best fortificaiton item you can find or buy at auction house.
Low lvl best Accuracy, so you leave Power Attack on all the time. Not as important at mid to high lvls.
Deadly if you can fit it in a low lvl and a must have for mid to high levels.
Seeker if you can fit it in for this...
My favorite weapon for 2hdr builds are Keen Falchions with Power Attack at low lvl rock. You will critical for double damage a lot.
(Single Handed would be Keen Scimitars, Kukri or Rapiers)
Everbright weapons for slime and rust monsters.





What server you on?

I play mostly melee clerics and would have no problem helping a fellow healer out on my server.





.

[AbeonTech]

I'm almost done farming tokens to TR my redundant HealBot cleric... This looks almost perfect. Think I'll try and get a few more SP as I tend to solo mostly. I have a bunch of random tomes too so can probably get turn this into an awesome build for my purposes.

Thanks, Axel

(great video too, btw)


EDIT:
First level was fun. Can't cast spells due to Wis limit. My stat boost items have level limits of 4+ :/

[EllisDee37]

EDIT:
First level was fun. Can't cast spells due to Wis limit. My stat boost items have level limits of 4+ :/

Don't forget Owl's Wisdom potions in the marketplace, ML2. They can get you from 2 to 4 without issue.

[axel15810]

EDIT:
First level was fun. Can't cast spells due to Wis limit. My stat boost items have level limits of 4+ :/

Yep, like above said Owl's wisdom pots should solve any early minimum WIS issues.