Make the Twilight Forge Soloable again.

[Enoach]

I myself love the flagging quests and pre-raid and raid that is Titan's Forge.

Actually the quests themselves are decent XP. Not top tier for their level but not slouches either.

In my opinion the reason why most people do not run these quests and raids...

1. Getting to the quests in the explorer area - with the map working the way it does it is difficult to keep track of other members as you run through and easy to lose other party members
2. Flagging is really a one time thing. Once you get the two pieces all you really have to do is get it repaired and you can be off to the raid
3. The explorer area is not raid group friendly - either you have to get out there through the area and then join the raid group or need to take advantage of greater teleport which must be done from a non-public area
4. The Loot has easier to achieve elsewhere options. As much as I like my chattering ring dodge options are much more available
5. A large part of the population has moved to Epic

In all honesty the pre-raid is nearly as easy to coordinate as VoN5. Assign people their color(s) and it can work out.

However, I wouldn't mind a change to the final Titan fight that would help reduce failures because he wasn't knocked down enough times by pillars/hit by laser, such as once all pillars are down the Titan's DR/Immunities are based on how many times it was successfully hit. The other problem with the final raid part is it is mostly a 3 person raid (Laser, pillar and buns) and the rest basically pike for 90% of it. Giving the other 9 characters something to do that could also help defeat the titan would be a good change to this raid as well.

[Impaqt]

Titan needs and update to to be made more accessible. Epic would be nice as well.

A simple NPC to teleport you to the raid entrance (Like ToD.. oh, and while your doing that, do it for MA and LOB too.) would immediately generate more interest in the raid. People have no idea how to even get to it right now. Stupid restelss islands maze...

[Powerhungry]

Raid saga (all raids) with end rewards required for crafting (endgame item - like sentient weapons)

[Impaqt]

Raid saga (all raids) with end rewards required for crafting (endgame item - like sentient weapons)

this does no one any good until the raids are updated to reflect todays game.

1: Accessible:
a. We should not have to run through a incredibly poorly designed wilderness area with horrible nonfunctional maps.
b. flagging for the raid needs to be static and not rely on any "random" mechanics.

2: Loot:
a. needs to be relevant to the level.

3: fun:
a. Cooperative mechanics in raids are 100% acceptable Imo, but the raid still has to be fun. The titan preraid is one of the most fun quests in the game simply because you can run it multiple times and you can play different rolls. then you get to the raid itself where 3 out of 12 players are important../fail.

that being said, I dont like the saga being "required" for anything. but have it offer a special effects not available through other means would have some potential.

[EllisDee37]

I'd think the reward list for a raid saga might best be raid mats:

Commendations of Heroism
Shroud mats (large) and shards (any)
Alchemical mats
Thunderforge mats

[QuantumFX]

Just make an Epic version of the quests and raid.

[FranOhmsford]

a. We should not have to run through a incredibly poorly designed wilderness area with horrible nonfunctional maps.

On the other hand I personally LOVE the Restless Isles Slayer!

The Maze itself is very well designed and not at all difficult to learn!

IF people would actually step into a wilderness zone for any reason other than to get to a quest or raid there'd be a lot less hate towards this one!

250-300 mobs in a standard instance
A simple "Turn Left" strategy will allow you to clear the ENTIRE instance and run Slavers at the end.
The Lock DCs are 48-50 {a bit high to be honest for a Lvl 10 zone that counts as NORMAL} but the doors you have to progress through are unlockable via keys found on the way.

As for getting to The Forge that's not difficult either - Use the lift at the start as always, go across the bridge and take the lift down, DON'T TURN LEFT!
Twilight Forge is basically a STRAIGHT RUN!
Ghola Fan is to the left and Slavers is through the gate in the first tunnel {if you don't have a rogue or Bell of Opening you still have to go up the lift to get the key but then you just go straight back down into the first tunnel again!}.

So:
Ghola Fan = Left, Left
Twilight Forge = Left, Straight on
Slavers = Left to get key, back down and right through gate!


P.S. The maps aren't that bad either - Compared to say "The Pit" or "Tempest Spine"!

[SirValentine]

fix the explorer area to make it a raid area (yes, even at L10), make it way easier to actually get to the raid entrance once you're flagged.

/signed to that.

Not a full raid-only area like the Sub-T, but a scaling area that can accept either normal parties or raid parties, like the Manufactory. And same with the Devil Battlefield as well.

Plus fix the map.

[SirValentine]

Please adjust this quest so it is soloable again.

It's not THAT hard to learn or run, and, though not soloable, can be done with only 3 people (or even two if one has a pet).

If people are not flagged, lead flagging runs first! If people are scared to join because they don't know it, try something like "teaching run, all welcome" in your LFM.

A few of us from my guild typically run a Titan every week or two, and always put up an LFM for others to join. We always get people wanting to join, and some of those runs fill completely to 12. Lots of them are first-timers.

[EllisDee37]

/signed to that.

Not a full raid-only area like the Sub-T, but a scaling area that can accept either normal parties or raid parties, like the Manufactory. And same with the Devil Battlefield as well.

Agreed.

And while we're fixing this issue, do the same for the demon sands wilderness and convert ADQ1 to a proper raid instance.

[Thalone]

Funny this thread should pop up... this life, I did the two flagging quests with 4/5 members in the party. Then I did the preraid and raid at level (50k XP with BB, for those curious) with a different group. It was sort of long and painful because I was the only one who knew the quest. But we managed to complete, and it's another of those things I've been meaning to do at level, just once, to be able to say I did.

[dunklezhan]

On the other hand I personally LOVE the Restless Isles Slayer!

The Maze itself is very well designed and not at all difficult to learn!

I love it too, as it happens. I love explorer areas in general. In fact, I usually get all discovery points/scrolls/whatever on all explorer areas except full raid ones on every character every life, and try to at least get 200 or 400 kills in each area and as many rares as happen to spawn whilst I'm at it. at some levels, I prefer the explorer areas to the quests (Restless Isles for example, also Vale, Wheloon, Kings forest, and Stormhorns).

But that doesn't change the fact that for Titan it's an unneeded time sink when you've probably already spent a while getting a group together, and like VoN are going to have to run a fairly long, not actually that straightforward pre-quest before the main event. You have to split into 2 parties then combine to a raid, at least one person per party won't know the way (which is fine, but it makes everything take even longer to actually get started).

Really. It's a no brainer. A better way to get a raid group to that raid entrance is badly needed. Ditto LoB and MA.

[dunklezhan]

The other problem with the final raid part is it is mostly a 3 person raid (Laser, pillar and buns) and the rest basically pike for 90% of it. Giving the other 9 characters something to do that could also help defeat the titan would be a good change to this raid as well.

Part in bold is absolutely key. The other 9 folks should not be just fighting off mobs. That's just busy work. They should be doing something productive to bring down that Titan. Throwing sand in it's joints, disrupting it's sensors, I don't care - something that directly affects either the Titan's performance or something that weakens it for the other three trying to bring it down. Obviously the laser should still be lethal to players.

[dunklezhan]

Agreed.

And while we're fixing this issue, do the same for the demon sands wilderness and convert ADQ1 to a proper raid instance.

Ooh! ooh! Yes, this too!

So we've now got on the list of explorers +raids to 'fix':

-Cannith MA/LoB
-Restless Isles Titan
-Sands ADQ1
-SubT and relevant raids
-Shavarath TOD

What we think is needed:
-Most of them need a loot pass
-All of them need a proper Epic/End Game version which isn't just a stat inflated version of the same raid
-Titan specifically needs it's final fight mechanics revising
-All of those explorers want converting to 'raid scalable' areas - solo all the way up to a full 12 man (we'll also have the moon on a stick while we're at it )
-All of them want better ways of actually getting your group to the raids (actually I'm not sure about Sub T. Its such a nice area that I find that it effectively being the long 'preraid' to the one room raids that are actually in there works very well. I dont' feel that way about the Cannith raid explorers at all. It's like an episode of Dr Who: all running through corridors!).

To be honest, I'd also like to see any explorer area with quests at least get the 3BC mechanic where if you've already done the quest you can just teleport straight there. I'd like to add 'OR if you have discovered all explorer points and revealed the map' to the mechanic for that though.

It doesn't appear from those who've posted that the OP's suggestion is greatly favoured. Perhaps a new thread is needed?

[FranOhmsford]

I love it too, as it happens. I love explorer areas in general. In fact, I usually get all discovery points/scrolls/whatever on all explorer areas except full raid ones on every character every life, and try to at least get 200 or 400 kills in each area and as many rares as happen to spawn whilst I'm at it. at some levels, I prefer the explorer areas to the quests (Restless Isles for example, also Vale, Wheloon, Kings forest, and Stormhorns).

But that doesn't change the fact that for Titan it's an unneeded time sink when you've probably already spent a while getting a group together, and like VoN are going to have to run a fairly long, not actually that straightforward pre-quest before the main event. You have to split into 2 parties then combine to a raid, at least one person per party won't know the way (which is fine, but it makes everything take even longer to actually get started).

Really. It's a no brainer. A better way to get a raid group to that raid entrance is badly needed. Ditto LoB and MA.

Not what I was arguing against!

I have no issues whatsoever with a teleport to Twilight Forge option being added to The Foothold!

However: I AM AGAINST any suggestion that The Restless Isles is a BAD Slayer Zone {The map isn't as bad as people make out either - though it could be better.}.

[dunklezhan]

However: I AM AGAINST any suggestion that The Restless Isles is a BAD Slayer Zone

agreed

{The map isn't as bad as people make out either - though it could be better.}.

No, the map's terrible and needs an update. I don't mean the layout and locks and stuff, I mean that the actual in game map is terrible. The one that got added to the wiki recently is way, way better.

[Uska]

It's not THAT hard to learn or run, and, though not soloable, can be done with only 3 people (or even two if one has a pet).

If people are not flagged, lead flagging runs first! If people are scared to join because they don't know it, try something like "teaching run, all welcome" in your LFM.

A few of us from my guild typically run a Titan every week or two, and always put up an LFM for others to join. We always get people wanting to join, and some of those runs fill completely to 12. Lots of them are first-timers.

Use to duo it with a guy from DDO Korea all the time not sure if you can still do that as it's been years and no nobody had a pet since Artie's, palemasters and Druids didn't exist at the time

[Impaqt]

Not what I was arguing against!

I have no issues whatsoever with a teleport to Twilight Forge option being added to The Foothold!

However: I AM AGAINST any suggestion that The Restless Isles is a BAD Slayer Zone {The map isn't as bad as people make out either - though it could be better.}.

ok. what explorer area in ddo is worse than Restless isles and why?

[Robai]

Please don't change Titan raid, don't change flagging, and don't change wilderness to raid area.

At first I disliked that, but later I really liked that, it's a fun aspect of the game (unique way to get to the raid).
Also it makes Greater Teleport spell useful.

[Loromir]

Whilst that IS true, and I want to see more content there, I think any raids being epicified now should be set to end game level. If that means the flagging quests were several CR levels below the raids themselves, so be it. The cap game is very lacking in DDO, even I can see that and I'd never have any intention of playing there for any length of time.

I think before they put DDO out to maintenance mode, they should give ALL raids in DDO a Mythic Level of CR 32 with ML28 versions of the named loot.