Monster Champion Feedback

[Sam1313]

Not sure if you all have noticed this or not but I have been following this thread since the first page. What I have noticed are 3 things that seem to be constant.
1. New players are quitting over this new change, and or vip subs are cancelling their vip.
2. People with older forum join dates is asking or telling you "Hey you need to add a check box, Champions - No Champions. Or only have Champions in Epic Elite" they are telling you this for a reason. WAKE UP, PAY ATTENTION!
3. Only less than 1% is for the Champions and likes the new change.

Today is Monday December 15th 2014 the changes was released in time for this last weekend. Within those 4 days our reserve guild has lost 6 new players who have deleted their characters and or their accounts. I don't think you have that much time to make a decision. That is unless of course you are intentionally trying to kill the game off before Christmas, I mean you did do away with Mabar this year so maybe killing the game off is the companies intentions? Either way I'd like to know a few days/weeks in advance please and NOT 19 seconds prior to.

[FestusHood]

Hint, it was harder back then, that is a fact, since useful gear was harder to get by, raiding and epics had a timer, and overall monster damage was higher in every quest since you didnt have acess to mitigations you have today.
Back in the day you could had issues with your to hit for example

Going to address this mitigation issue. It's true that back in the day, there was no significant mitigation, ala prr. The game was balanced for that. As a result people could focus on other aspects of their build. If you balance the content so that only the people who have focused entirely in damage mitigation can survive it, then that will be the end of any semblance of character diversity.

It's easy for you, you only play one character, and it is ALWAYS following some kind of current optimized build. So let's just write off all the players who don't want to play that way eh? Well, all i can say is, you will reap what you sow.

[EllisDee37]

3. Only less than 1% is for the Champions and likes the new change.

This is a gross mischaracterization of the feedback in this thread.

I'd say at least half the posters (not posts) in this thread are for champions and like the new change.

[Blackheartox]

Can you explain how much power this provides to a new player with a level 2 sorc?

We didnt have slas as lv 2 sorc.
Now you have slas that cost 2 sp and can be metad.
Difference in power is huge.

[Sehenry03]

a check box seriously? go ahead and add one for the boss thats actually tougher than the champion too while your at it. also add one for all the traps too. i dont have fun dodging traps. oh also for red names. they take too long. oh also add one for sp usage. i dont have fun running out of sp. oh and one to have AI play the game for you as well. all this running around stuff is so tedioius. also, its sooo not fun to die, there should be a god mode check box as well............

I am with ya...

In fact lets just add a check box to the log in screen that says:
[ ] Give all Elite xp/favor without even playing today
[ ] Actually play the game

[EllisDee37]

Going to address this mitigation issue. It's true that back in the day, there was no significant mitigation, ala prr. The game was balanced for that.

Agreed, and also agreed on your larger point about Epic Elite being balanced around mitigation which constricts build choices.

However, the quoted statement is very relevant for heroics:

The heroic game was balanced for no mitigation. We now have mitigation. The heroic game was not rebalanced for the addition of mitigation. The entire heroic game is now easier as a consequence.

[Albinosaurus]

People who are threatening to leave over this (or as you would believe...are leaving over this) are not the people that this game relies on. The people threatening to leave are those types of people who want to come into a game and "win" with little effort and be as good as the person who has invested years playing. I say good riddance since there are still some of us left around from the VERY early days and have had to put up with the dumbing down of this game to satisfy the lowest common denominator.

False. The people threatening to leave don't find getting cheesed by impulsive and reckless monster scaling to be fun, especially when the buffs the champions can start with undermine some of the few ways for non-PRR builds to even survive. The game play style of "don't get hit or die" isn't fun for most people. It isn't the added challenge they have a hard time with; it's that the challenge ignores character development and nullifies many builds. The heart of the issue is that lots of builds were fun and viable before this update, and now they are not.

If the game gets harder then that is a good thing. Is their new system "perfect" no but when have they ever rolled out something that didn't need to be tweaked/hotfixed? It will get fixed eventually and if people can't wait for that then too **** bad. Personally the challenge is very welcoming and imho only needs a few very minor tweaks.

Harder does not equate to better. Challenge is good if done intelligently, but bloated stats is lazy and boring. Some extra stats can be okay, but the way it is now is simply obscene. Give monsters interesting tools (other than gimmicky one-shotters) for the player to work around and counter-strategize against. Also, the extra abilities can't just be globally available to any potential champion. It needs to make sense for the kind of creature it is. Here are a few examples of what would be more interesting challenge:

-Stinking Cloud (for Heroic) or Cloud Kill (on Epic) for a champion rat; this is a creature of filth and disease, and one that has lived unusually long probably developed a deadly self defense mechanism.
-Have a Iron Defenders infused with extra elemental damage and have resistance to a given element; as constructs, it isn't unreasonable to think that they could be created with extra-planar materials which grant them an affinity for a certain element.
-A champion rogue my employ various poisons alongside Hamstring, or Sap a player if undetected.

Just to reiterate, these thing may have some extra hp and do a bit more damage, but we should never see lvl 4 creatures with thousands of hp or anything than can hit a player for 5k. That's just wrong.

The real problem is that the devs took the lazy way out, and this isn't really about challenge. It's about adding more grind without adding a reason for players to want to do it.

[kafrielveddicus]

This is a gross mischaracterization of the feedback in this thread.

I'd say at least half the posters (not posts) in this thread are for champions and like the new change.

Have to agree EllisDee, I dont disagree with the 1% having the champions especially for the epic content. But for Heroic content let it be a choice so the 1% can be unbored when they rerun content and those that play for fun can enjoy the usual pace.

[Impaqt]

Not sure if you all have noticed this or not but I have been following this thread since the first page. What I have noticed are 3 things that seem to be constant.
1. New players are quitting over this new change, and or vip subs are cancelling their vip.

no, you have a few people claiming they quit or cancelled. people like to talk on the forums..... Only turbine knows the actual numbers of people dropping VIP.

2. People with older forum join dates is asking or telling you "Hey you need to add a check box, Champions - No Champions. Or only have Champions in Epic Elite" they are telling you this for a reason. WAKE UP, PAY ATTENTION!

I have one of the oldest join dates going nowadays. and I think a checkbox is a silly pipe dream.

3. Only less than 1% is for the Champions and likes the new change.

huh? not even close. This is easily one of more evenly split debates.

Today is Monday December 15th 2014 the changes was released in time for this last weekend. Within those 4 days our reserve guild has lost 6 new players who have deleted their characters and or their accounts. I don't think you have that much time to make a decision. That is unless of course you are intentionally trying to kill the game off before Christmas, I mean you did do away with Mabar this year so maybe killing the game off is the companies intentions? Either way I'd like to know a few days/weeks in advance please and NOT 19 seconds prior to.

Whats a reserve guild?

[Ironforge_Clan]

LOL you didnt read my post I have been here since the start (ok 3 months in), dont look at my join date of my 2nd account!

I was on the Xoriat Server that became Thelanis, and i havent bothered to try to play epic content so how "Winning" am I.

I am just happy to enjoy the game, this change has made the part of the game that you roll thru in a couple of days, completely unenjoyable.

As far as your contribution to the game, i doubt you spend a single penny with your points earned from multiple lives, doubt you are even vip? Prove me wrong on that point!!!!!!!!!!

I was VIP and also spent over $100 on Double points last time the special was offered, those are the people that contribute to the game not those that multi life and never spend a dime!

You have no clue about all the different varieties of players that are playing the game, take off your blindfold!

I wasn't directing my comment at you I was really just commenting on the Chicken Little mentality everyone seems to be yelling from their soapboxes.

You shouldn't be able to roll through parts of the game in a couple of days. The fact that some people can is proof enough that the game has gotten too easy.

Wrong! I am a VIP and I regularly spend money on points....usually once or twice a year. To make matters worse when I do, I drop a minimum of $100 because I want them to last six month to a year. See I don't go to concerts unless the wife wants to (rarely). I don't buy video games, music, go out to bars or the the movies. This is my vice/recreation...other than wine.

Wrong again. I am, as my signature states, caught between the casual gamer and the power gamer. I can and have run with the top guilds on Thelanis (also been a member of a few) but I also enjoy screwing around. As far as the different variety of players within the game, I'm well aware of each and every type that I have encounter since 2006. Now there may be some newer ones but I don't have an issue with them so I don't understand why you would think that I do.

[schelsullivan]

So is it the "middle of the road" players who would normally play Hard level but now find Hard level too hard with Champions, but find normal or casual just too easy? I concede that point. The difference between hard and norm is quite a gap for some players. Just as the gap from hard to elite is quite a jump.

Im a vet but would not consider myself "Uber" but I do normally run everything on elite, so again I concede that Hard setting might be better off left without monster champions, or with greatly reduced spawn rates for hard, But I and reallying enjoying the challenge that elite brings again, especially heroic elites.

[Blackheartox]

Can you explain how much power this provides to a new player with a level 2 sorc?

We didnt have slas as lv 2 sorc.
Now you have slas that cost 2 sp and can be metad.
Difference in power is huge.

[kafrielveddicus]

I am with ya...

In fact lets just add a check box to the log in screen that says:
[ ] Give all Elite xp/favor without even playing today
[ ] Actually play the game

Who needs those Check Boxes??? This check box works better.

[ ] Pay some loser living in his mothers basement .05 cents and hour for an endgame account.

[FestusHood]

They like the fact it adds challenge without blanket wards, adding 0's to hp, and requires tactical play at times to overcome without massive pain.

The problem is that this is exactly what was done. Almost everything has deathWARD, which i suspect is some kind of a WARD?

I personally have not yet seen a single champion that did not have massively inflated hit points. As far as tactics go, this is simply not a tactical video game. Despite what the description may say, pushing a button called stunning blow is not a tactic, it's an effect. Pushing a button called hold person is not a tactic, it's an effect. As somebody who has played a lot of wargames, i laugh at the idea that this is a tactical game.

[Granitmound]

I think the Champion addition is AWESOME. I play in a permadeath guild ( Mortal Voyage) and personally, I felt that the quests and mobs were becoming ridiculously easy and thus boring. The addition of the champions adds some spice and excitement that I have felt missing of late. GREAT IDEA. I LOVE IT! Permadeath isn't as fun when the chance of dying is missing. the harder the better!

P.S. is the fact that "Trip" seems to be working pretty easy on EVERYTHING a bug?

[kafrielveddicus]

the real problem is that the devs took the lazy way out, and this isn't really about challenge. It's about adding more grind without adding a reason for players to want to do it.

bingo!!!

[Aletys]

Did you actually try to make it work, or did you just hit the turn undead button once and give up?

For example, did you cast the Seek Eternal Rest spell as one of your self-buffs along with nightshield and protection from evil? Maybe (and I know this is crazy) equip a sacred item?

Yes, yes, no & yes. I'm not a newb. Protection from evil doesn't help you turn undead, though it provides protection from them. Having a summons & nimbus of light ended up being more useful, so I changed it out. Maybe I was getting low rolls on the turns, but don't know. I was too busy trying to stay alive to notice at the time.

[schelsullivan]

The problem is that this is exactly what was done. Almost everything has deathWARD, which i suspect is some kind of a WARD?

I personally have not yet seen a single champion that did not have massively inflated hit points. As far as tactics go, this is simply not a tactical video game. Despite what the description may say, pushing a button called stunning blow is not a tactic, it's an effect. Pushing a button called hold person is not a tactic, it's an effect. As somebody who has played a lot of wargames, i laugh at the idea that this is a tactical game.

Play solo EE with underpowered toon and its impossible to win without tactics and strategy, but its true, most EE groups are witless zergfests. DDO Can be a strategic dungeon crawl experience, you just have to pick over level quests on elite.

[Sam1313]

I am with ya...

In fact lets just add a check box to the log in screen that says:
[ ] Give all Elite xp/favor without even playing today
[ ] Actually play the game

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't that pretty much what the vip daily gold roll is? And Otto's Box?

[Impaqt]

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't that pretty much what the vip daily gold roll is?

Hardly. Its a weekly roll. and is usually less than 3k.