A sneak peek at Update 24’s dungeons … and beyond

[Kwyjibo]

I know nothing about pnp, but what probably happened is they said, hey, PC, we got the rights to this awesome, popular DnD module. Would you rather that be next or Auronoch, and people on the council said heck yeah to ToEE.

It wasn't a choice...it was "here is some new stuff we're working on and we're looking for feedback on a couple of things."

[UurlockYgmeov]

Some additional info:

~ The Xoriat dungeons are all new content.

~ The Temple of Elemental Evil, as a classic dungeon set in another world, with be accessed magically and directly. The epic version will be level 30, and the heroic version will start at level 7 as the original was level 1-8.

~ We won't be creating the villages as part of the Temple of Elemental Evil. Yes, it makes us sad as well. Our estimates of the time it would take to run that pre-content was very low, and the development time estimates were so high we didn't feel that the additional play experience would be worth pushing the update out by months.

Instead players will get right to the heart of the adventure.

~ The Temple is very large, and we want players to have a reason to explore it even on subsequent runs. We want to find a fun system to reward exploring the temple rather than just running the most efficient path to finish the quests, and plan on having some rewarding optional objectives that randomly spawn and give out good XP and treasure.

Sev~

LOVE IT! love all of it! keep it coming!

[DANTEIL]

Thanks for the additional info!

Some additional info:

~ The Xoriat dungeons are all new content.

Meh

~ The Temple of Elemental Evil, as a classic dungeon set in another world, with be accessed magically and directly. The epic version will be level 30, and the heroic version will start at level 7 as the original was level 1-8.

YES!!! on the availability to heroic-level characters. My hope is that if you advertise this right, a lot of new players might be drawn to the game if they can run ToEE, and having it available at lower levels means that a broader range of players can experience it. Having an Epic version also helps fill the need for additional endgame/lvl30 content.

~ We won't be creating the villages as part of the Temple of Elemental Evil. Yes, it makes us sad as well. Our estimates of the time it would take to run that pre-content was very low, and the development time estimates were so high we didn't feel that the additional play experience would be worth pushing the update out by months.

Disappointing, but understandable.

Instead players will get right to the heart of the adventure.

~ The Temple is very large, and we want players to have a reason to explore it even on subsequent runs. We want to find a fun system to reward exploring the temple rather than just running the most efficient path to finish the quests, and plan on having some rewarding optional objectives that randomly spawn and give out good XP and treasure.

Sev~

I'm an explorer at heart, so this sounds awesome!

[FranOhmsford]

anyone who knows d&d and DDO knows those rings needed to be fixed and I know you know it as well

Lol - D&D never had Min Level requirements for ANY named Loot!

That is an MMO thing!

I was actually pleased that the Devs were putting at least a little bit of D&D back into DDO!

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

I will have to side with the Temple of Elemental Evil. Too many great pnp memories. New content is needed, well known module such as ToEE is a huge score and huge news, and if their is real challenge there, then this is going to be GREAT for the game!

Now my question is... can we get an official word if this will definitely be free of charge to VIPs??

[EllisDee37]

3 lives ago, or a month ago roughly, I did a regular heroic TR on my fighter. I did one and done on a 3+ life character with elite BB, 5% ship, 10% VIP, 5% VOM, 20% xp pot and tried the best I could to maximize xp including buying a rogue for trap heavy quests for more xp. Only killed mobs on my way to quests in wilderness zones. I had anywhere from 2.5 ranks to max xp banked at each level. I took 18 when I was a rank short of 19 and capped in Vale. I skipped Stealthy just because I don't like the quest, but I had so much xp banked I had to skip all of Necro 2, Xorian Cypher, Chrono and a couple others in low levels.

Even if you take away the xp pot, reduce the ship xp to 3% and skip random quests, you should have no problem with xp in low levels even on a 3+ TR.

I regularly run E-BB one run and have done so on dozens of characters! {Yes I also max out the Slayer Zones up to and incl. Sorrowdusk!}

Even on 3rd Lifers I'm Hard Capped BEFORE I hit Lvl 7 Quests! {And I ignore Carnival completely!}

XP isn't the reason why we need more low and mid level quests - There's already plenty for XP requirements {IF You're VIP or own the majority of packs} all the way up to 28!

We need more low and mid level quests so people have CHOICES!

I never said it was difficult to level, or that xp was lacking. What I said (and demonstrated) is that the xp distribution is unbalanced, with level 6 being light and level 7 being about right. Therefore it might be better to make it level 6 instead of level 7.

[Qhualor]

I never said it was difficult to level, or that xp was lacking. What I said (and demonstrated) is that the xp distribution is unbalanced, with level 6 being light and level 7 being about right. Therefore it might be better to make it level 6 instead of level 7.

there are some light xp level 6 quests, but my point is that low levels are already front loaded with xp. this will also depend on how much content you own, but making a new quest start at level 7 will only bring something new and fresh to run rather than some of the old content that haven't been updated with new stuff for a very long time. make it level 6, 7, 8, 9, or level 1. doesn't matter as it will only be something different to do and not because it should be inserted at a specific level range to offset the xp imbalance.

[FranOhmsford]

I never said it was difficult to level, or that xp was lacking. What I said (and demonstrated) is that the xp distribution is unbalanced, with level 6 being light and level 7 being about right. Therefore it might be better to make it level 6 instead of level 7.

But F2Pers and Premiums who've concentrated on getting High Level Packs have plenty of Quests to run to get to Lvl 7/8 - It's at Lvl 9/10 where things slow down for them!

So placing ToEE at Lvl 7 is perfect - It places it bang at Lvl 9 for BB!

IF those Premiums have already bought Necro II and VoN then even better!
Because now they get the OPTION to run something different rather than simply using TWO quests {and maybe Tempest Spine/VoN 5-6} to lvl from 9-13!

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

It's at Lvl 9/10 where things slow down for them!

This is very true. This is crazy good news.

Villages however should be made. Even if they are just backdrop.

[Grosbeak07]

Some additional info:

~ The Xoriat dungeons are all new content.

~ The Temple of Elemental Evil, as a classic dungeon set in another world, with be accessed magically and directly. The epic version will be level 30, and the heroic version will start at level 7 as the original was level 1-8.

~ We won't be creating the villages as part of the Temple of Elemental Evil. Yes, it makes us sad as well. Our estimates of the time it would take to run that pre-content was very low, and the development time estimates were so high we didn't feel that the additional play experience would be worth pushing the update out by months.

Instead players will get right to the heart of the adventure.

~ The Temple is very large, and we want players to have a reason to explore it even on subsequent runs. We want to find a fun system to reward exploring the temple rather than just running the most efficient path to finish the quests, and plan on having some rewarding optional objectives that randomly spawn and give out good XP and treasure.

Sev~

All good stuff.

And this is just the quests.

I'm also looking forward to Barbarian Changes, the new "event" that replaced mabar, the Level cap getting raised in 2015 and I'm sure you guys have a few more things in the pipe line.

[Gondandur]

Some additional info:



~ The Temple of Elemental Evil, as a classic dungeon set in another world, with be accessed magically and directly. The epic version will be level 30, and the heroic version will start at level 7 as the original was level 1-8.

Sev~

What about the actual impossibilty for new /first life characters who cannot access Evening Star before level 16 at least and only via quest chain passage to FR?
Will you allow ToEE direct access from Halls of Heroes (which would give a sense to its existance) ?

[SirShen]

anyone who knows d&d and DDO knows those rings needed to be fixed and I know you know it as well

Fixed yes but not to the point of them being worse then rings you can loot from chests, so for me they still need to fix them.

[dunklezhan]

Thanks for this. May even convince me to renew my sub in January. Maybe. I might just buy the packs if I'm still playing. Certainly enough to delay my decision to completely quit at christmas especially if any of this brings people back and honestly... it really might. The old guard often expressed love of eberron and greyhawk but markedly not FR in a lot of cases (yes I'm one, I know I know, confirmation bias). Xoriat are always crowd pleasers - they're always entertaining first time through, even if on balance some don't like them. So I'm pleased and hopeful for just a few more people to play with.

On ToEE. First I must say that HH was really impressive - but was something I only ever scratched the surface on because the first quest would take every group I was in a good 45 mins on its own and then optionals just never seemed to happen for groups I was in. That's very likely because I play for relatively short periods at a time, so by the time I got around to being of a level to run it and was online with other people? Everyone already had their loot, as usual, there were no groups going and what few guildies we had left didn't really want to run it as they'd had their opportunities to explore and get loot if they wanted.

So if ToEE is to use anything like a similar mechanic, can the 'completion' marker please be a little more time friendly? It can be difficult - the more difficult the better in fact. The HH boss battle is great and I find challenging in every group if they're on a skill-appropriate difficulty setting (for us, Hard). But it just shouldn't take so long to get there so you can start running the other interesting stuff (e.g. hh you could've done crest runs after the boss battle in order to unlock specific optionals, rather than doing them to unlock the boss himself and then just choosing optionals or not bothering at all). Its great first time through but it becomes a bit of a chore on repeated play throughs. Needs to be a bit snappier.

I do already have the ToEE turn based single player. Fortunately, I never got further than the first room of the temple nor played the PnP version or greyhawk, so I'm thankfully in a completely spoiler free zone as far as DnD lore goes which is lovely. It also means I have no nostalgia to rose tint the experience - so it better be good, you guys



On Xoriat: I for one love Xoriat content and I love when you finish off or continue Eberron storylines, so this is a double win for me. Someone really does just need to close that **** tavern though. Are 12 Scholars that desperate for somewhere to let their hair down so close to the tower? These people can planeshift, for heaven's sake!

So I am very pleased to hear that it is not only a return to Xoriat, but new material and new plot - not just an epic conversion. I'm frankly delighted that these are new heroic and epic quests, not just epic versions of existing heroics. Thank you. Really. Thank you.

If more Eberron storyline development is on the cards however, I for one would like to finish off the Shavarath and other planar stuff that was always tantalisingly hinted at at the planescaller in the 12. Though the Delkir are a real and present danger on Eberron itself, which is why I have no problem with the choice thus far. But more of the other planes storyline would be excellent please. After that, for the love of the Flame finish the droaam chain. Those hags need to be put down, and right proper.

Not to say I don't like the idea of epicifying things like the Titan raid and associated quests mind you, as you've done with GH and the excellent 3BC update - but that isn't actually continuing storylines as such, its a thinly veiled excuse for an epic version. Which is cool and all, cos I like all those quests and I prefer eberron to FR hands down. But I'd rather see true continuations and completions of outstanding plotlines.


So:

More heroic Xoriat plot with Epic versions (or vice versa)? Yes please. Thank you so much for doing some more new Eberron stuff.

ToEE: sounds great and I really really hope it works well, but I am decidedly neutral on whether its a good or bad module to begin with or how well it might convert. So I am yours to convince on that one.


Also - don't let this sudden wonderful urge for new content stop you hammering bugs like nails in an old floorboard though please. Hirelings are still completely messed up for example, which really hurts when you're a casual player on at times with low population/groups. Get all those bugged enhancements sorted.

And finally - CANNITH CRAFTING. ahem. thanks.

[jalont]

I never said it was difficult to level, or that xp was lacking. What I said (and demonstrated) is that the xp distribution is unbalanced, with level 6 being light and level 7 being about right. Therefore it might be better to make it level 6 instead of level 7.

I agree with this 100 percent. IF you're the type of person that only runs quests two levels over on elite, leveling from 8-->9 and 10 -->11 are where it gets tricky.

[Oxarhamar]

I agree with this 100 percent. IF you're the type of person that only runs quests two levels over on elite, leveling from 8-->9 and 10 -->11 are where it gets tricky.

Never had an issue running Eilte streak one and done at those levels.

And I skip a lot of content.

[Thar]

Some additional info:

~ The Xoriat dungeons are all new content.

~ The Temple of Elemental Evil, as a classic dungeon set in another world, with be accessed magically and directly. The epic version will be level 30, and the heroic version will start at level 7 as the original was level 1-8.

~ We won't be creating the villages as part of the Temple of Elemental Evil. Yes, it makes us sad as well. Our estimates of the time it would take to run that pre-content was very low, and the development time estimates were so high we didn't feel that the additional play experience would be worth pushing the update out by months.

Instead players will get right to the heart of the adventure.

~ The Temple is very large, and we want players to have a reason to explore it even on subsequent runs. We want to find a fun system to reward exploring the temple rather than just running the most efficient path to finish the quests, and plan on having some rewarding optional objectives that randomly spawn and give out good XP and treasure.

Sev~

xoriat... delierum part 3... ugh... why do you guys pick the stuff i hate the most... this ranks up there with heroic 3bc and orchard as quests i like to skip or run once for favor. what's next epic made to order or epicfy the existing challenges?

people wanted epic tempest spine... epic water works, even amarath expanded would have been better. Where is our player counsel? do we need to fire them?

TOEE... ok you are mostly forgiven... if it's done right.

where is the new raid?

Any new sagas?

[BDog77]

Looks like some great stuff to look forward to.

Also, knockback, just wanted to say, amazing job on Thunderholme! Looks just like I imagined a dwarven stronghold would look like, very well done!

B

[nibel]

In the last update Eberron was embraced in many ways by the Devs. But serious- how many raids of the mark of death have you already run?
I seeked on the server Thelanis every 2 days since the start and found not even one pug! All the guilds I know (no raid guilds) dont run the raid and after the last FR realms raid were published,
they were run a 1000 times even today.

Not a fair comparasion, because MoD does not requires as many runs as Thunderholme raids, or Shroud, or Cannith.

And just to throw the same argument around to show how ridiculous it is, remember when FoT was released and CitW became a ghost town? Well, FoT is in Eberron, so...

Please don't make a rare item in a rare spawn. Fun is fighting and fun is pulling awesome loot. Learn from the mistakes of the past.

I remember when Ioun Stones were random uber rare drops. It was awesome.

I remember when people get actually frustrated searching for a pink rust monster, but never stopped because the loot was awesome.

I remember people doing DQ 60 times for a Torc.

I remember people still doing VoN6 for a Sword of Shadows or its shard.

People like loot a lot. To the point of playing the game only for that loot. But one thing is making this loot "rare", and another is making it "gated to the point where casual players have no chance to get it". For the loot seekers that actually farm, both modes are comparable, but for casuals required farming is a serious drawback. Eg, I have zero interest in thunderforged weapons for this exact reason. Yet, I have an Eardweller because it popped for me while normal questing.

[Oxarhamar]

Snip "Update 24 will round out the year with new quests, new Festivult cookies, and a new event that centers on something we can all agree on: looting chests! We’ll be continuing our work on the Anauroch Desert (in the Forgotten Realms), planning for Sentient Weapons, and developing another Classic Dungeon like the Haunted Halls of Eveningstar. We expect these to be something you’ll see in the first half of 2015. We’re pushing out the level cap for now to make sure we have plenty of questing to support your journey through the highest levels of DDO. Hitting level 30 will be a big milestone for DDO, and we want to put it out when the timing is right, and make sure its design keeps up with the way you, the players want to play DDO. "

Looks like this is the confusion

The letter is later out by Update but, the future plans are all crammed into this bit with U24.

So do this mean we are still getting Anaurock in the future?

The Event will it be ready soon?

[Cetus]

Some additional info:

~ The Xoriat dungeons are all new content.

~ The Temple of Elemental Evil, as a classic dungeon set in another world, with be accessed magically and directly. The epic version will be level 30, and the heroic version will start at level 7 as the original was level 1-8.

~ We won't be creating the villages as part of the Temple of Elemental Evil. Yes, it makes us sad as well. Our estimates of the time it would take to run that pre-content was very low, and the development time estimates were so high we didn't feel that the additional play experience would be worth pushing the update out by months.

Instead players will get right to the heart of the adventure.

~ The Temple is very large, and we want players to have a reason to explore it even on subsequent runs. We want to find a fun system to reward exploring the temple rather than just running the most efficient path to finish the quests, and plan on having some rewarding optional objectives that randomly spawn and give out good XP and treasure.

Sev~

You need to make it worthwhile running on EE. Please don't make the same horrible mistake you made with haunted halls, where the quest can just get abused on normal, with all of the loot extracted from it.

Give it a 16 hour timer or something, encourage running alternate characters, EE-only loot - and you'll have a winner that lasts a tad longer than 48 hours.