Barbarian - Ravager Changes

[Qhualor]

Had time to read the thread and yes I agree. Bane damage is the way to go here, not force. Force has other interaction issues (mobs immune, mobs heal, etc) and makes little sense with ravager/barbarian. Leave Force in OS. Use Bane here. Works the same, wont ever heal mobs or deal with immunities, and fits the idea of the ravager causing more damage to anything at any time because ravagerness.

OS is the anti magic tree. force doesn't belong there.

[Scrabbler]

Slashing would be reduced by certain abilities and thus be a nerf.

Hmm, my Blade Barrier spell does Slashing damage, and I haven't noticed any creatures reducing it. Also look at the Ring of the Ravager from Tower of Despair...

[bbqzor]

We don't want to do untyped.

Uh, thats a sad face.

I would personally like to make it bleed damage but I'd have to look at Bleed damage to make sure that's an actual damage type and see what reduces it.

Unless this is some kind of magical happy bleed damage which works on undead, no thanks. Like 90% of the epic content is undead right now (ok, some hyperbole, but seriously FoT, Fire Peaks, Deathwyrm, Mark of Death, all of Epic Orchard, Thunderholm, Haunted Halls, all the Drow Necromancer/Zombie fights, all the Netherese related shadow/umbral mobs... basically any epic content except the GH quests and Druid line have a ton of undead). Undead dont bleed (normally).

Itd be basically unplayable at 20+ if you did that. I mean if you take out all the (currently force dmg) effects due to bleed immunity, and the remainder due to stat dmg immunity, and whats left. Yea... thats not good.

[UurlockYgmeov]

Slashing would be reduced by certain abilities and thus be a nerf. We don't want to do untyped. The problem with Bane is the same problem as alignment damage; players don't understand what is affected by it. For players, bane refers to damage that affects a specific creature type so I don't know if we want to use it for more universal damage like this.

I would personally like to make it bleed damage but I'd have to look at Bleed damage to make sure that's an actual damage type and see what reduces it.



We'll look into Fury again. Critical Fury got changed late in the process.

Sev~

IIRC bleed is a damage type -

[Scrabbler]

Festering Wound: (1/1/1 AP Requires: Cruel Cut) Cruel Cut additionally inflicts 1/2/3 5-seconds stacks of 1d6 Poison damage every 2 seconds and the target loses -50% healing amplification for 5/10/15 seconds. This poison damage scales with 200% Melee Power. Damage stacks fade one at a time.

An easy, low-importance suggestion: give the Festering Wound poison DOT an additional effect of 5% Poison vulnerability, copied from the similar enhancement in Ninja Spy. That would give Festering Wound a bit of synergy with Poison weapons you might be wielding, or with Rogue / Monk / Drow characters in your party.

Pain Touch: (1 AP, Level 3) Your melee attacks deal 1d6 extra damage. --- This damage scales with 100% Melee Power. Passive: You gain +10 healing amplification.
...
Pain Touch: (1 AP, Level 12) Upgrades Pain Touch so your melee attacks deal 2d6 extra damage. This damage scales with 100% Melee Power. Passive: You gain +60 hit points and +20 healing amplification.

Ok, here's just a fun silly suggestion to add some character variety options:

Change the two Pain Touch core enhancements into multiselectors where instead of Pain Touch, you can instead pick an alternate combat style (appropriate to the crude life of a Ravager):

• Pain Touch + Pain Touch: 2d6 damage on each hit.
• Club Mastery + Greater Club Mastery: When attacking with a Club or Greatclub you have +2 damage, +2 critical threat, and +8% Doublestrike.
• Shred Master + Greater Shread Mastery: You gain Kama proficiency, and when attacking with a Sickle or Kama you have +1 crit mult. When attacking with a Sickle, Kama, or Handaxe you have +1 crit range and +10% offhand proc.
• Reaping Mauler + Greater Reaping Mauler: When attacking unarmed you do 1d8/1d12 damage and have a faster animation. (Doesn't stack with Monk or GMOF unarmed animation).

[Faltout]

Core abilities

Furious Rage: (1 AP, Level 1) When you are raging and miss your attack by rolling 1, you gain Fury for 6 seconds. Fury: +1 Rage bonus to attack and damage. This effect stacks up to 6 times and one stack fades every 6 seconds.

Ok, I like this ability very much and I see it a lot when I'm raging. Cleaves, glancing blows, haste make rolling 1s easy to come by in 6 seconds. Thus when raging this ability is always stuck at 6.

Pain Touch: (1 AP, Level 12) Upgrades Pain Touch so your melee attacks deal 2d6 extra damage. This damage scales with 100% Melee Power. Passive: You gain +60 hit points and +20 healing amplification.

For an ability that you get at level 3 to get upgraded at level 12 to do an extra 1d6 damage is laughable. Seems like you only wanted this to stay so you could add the hit points and healamp.

Subsiding Fury: (1 AP, Level 18) When you use Barbarian Rage, you gain 3 stacks of Fury. Passive: You gain +100 hit points and +20 healing amplification.

What good is starting from 3 stacks of Fury when I can get to 6 stacks in about 6 seconds? Not to mention that I will probably activate rage before the fight, so by the time I hit a monster the stacks will be gone. May I suggest you raise the Fury cap instead? After all, it's a level 18 ability. A +6 to damage (if the cap goes up to 12) is not overpowered if not still underpowered. Power Attack gives +10 damage at level 1.

Visage of Terror: (1 AP, Level 20) Terrorize an enemy, killing them with fear if they fail a Will save vs 10 + Constitution modifier + half barbarian level. Enemies who make their saving throw are briefly paralyzed with fear instead. (Cost 1 Rage. Cooldown: 30 seconds. Passive: You gain +4 Constitution, +150 hit points and +40 healing amplification.

The cost of 1 Rage to maybe kill one mob is ridiculous. And it should not work on bosses so a normal mob does not deserve the cost of 1 rage. Especially since you want to base the tree on rage. Removing the cost of rage and making it NOT WORK on bosses (you don't wanna do that...) would make a nice capstone. Don't forget it's a capstone and not a T5 ability (which I will address later).

Tier One

Ritual Scarring: (1/1/1 AP) +[1/2/3] Intimidate, Haggle and Physical Resistance.

Hate: (1/1/1 AP) Melee Attack: Deals +(1/2/3)[W] damage and generate extra threat. (Cooldown: 15 seconds)

Do You Like Pain?: (1/1/1 AP) When you are hit: [20/40/60]% chance attacker loses 10 AC.

Barbarian Power Attack: (1/1/1 AP, Requires Power Attack) Your Power Attack feat does 1/2/3 additional point of bonus damage ---.

Hardy Rage: (1/1/1 AP) +[1/2/3] Constitution when raging.

Ok, all in all some good tier 1 abilities. Not powerful, just what a barbarian needs at low levels. I suggest remaking that "Do You Like Pain" to have always a 20% chance (not up to 60%) and make that 10 AC to be 3 + 1/3 barbarian levels/6 + 1/2 barbarian levels/9 + barbarian levels. 10 AC at low levels is really powerful. But 10 AC at higher levels is nothing. 29 AC is still not too much but it's a tier 1 ability. And passive.

I Like Pain: (1/1/1 AP, Requires: Do You Like Pain?) When you are hit: Small chance to gain 50/100/150 Temporary HP. The gain scales with 100% melee power.

Ok, what's that small chance? We're still at Tier 2 and those are a lot of HP * melee power. I guess it won't matter much on EE where hits are not many but really hurt, so it's not worth waiting for that chance to kick in for 250 HP. How about lowering the amount of HP but making that chance something considerable. Either way it's going to be mostly useless in EE and rightly so cause it's a tier 2 ability. Just don't make it overpowered for lower levels.

Tier Three (Requires Barbarian Level 3, 10 APs spent in tree)

Aura of Fear: (1/1/1 AP, Requires: Fear Me!) Nearby enemies receive a -2 penalty to Strength and Charisma.
~ Rank 2: Nearby enemies receive a -2 penalty to Strength, Charisma, Dexterity and Wisdom.
~ Rank 3: Nearby enemies receive a -2 penalty to all ability scores.

lol. I mean, yeah. That monster with that 30 STR will be harmless now that this is reduced to 28... for the 6 seconds it's going to be alive. Also, that boss will be harmless now that he has a -2 penalty to his ability scores. Ability scores are only reduced meaningfully by weapon abilities, repeated attacks, spells. A static -2 is not going to do any damage. This ability needs to be changed to something meaningful.


Festering Wound: (1/1/1 AP Requires: Cruel Cut) Cruel Cut additionally inflicts 1/2/3 5-seconds stacks of 1d6 Poison damage every 2 seconds and the target loses -50% healing amplification for 5/10/15 seconds. This poison damage scales with 200% Melee Power. Damage stacks fade one at a time.

Constitution/Strength: (2 AP) +1 Constitution or Strength

Tier Four (Requires Barbarian Level 4, 20 APs spent in tree)

Laughter: (2 AP, Requires: Slaughter) For many Ravagers, there's no Laughter without Slaughter.
When Slaughter damages an enemy, you gain 3 Fury. When Slaughter scores a critical hit on an enemy, you gain an additional 3 Fury and 10 Melee Power for 15 seconds.

stacks of Fury again??? But those were already topped. Maybe give that melee power every time slaughter hits and reduce the duration to 10 or 6 seconds? After all, this is a tier 4 ability and needs to be meaningful at high levels.

I Hit Back!: (1/1/1 AP, Requires: I Like Pain) When you are hit: 20% chance to deal 2d8/4d8/6d8 force damage to attacker. This damage scales with 100% Melee Power.

Tier Five (Requires Barbarian Level 5, Character Level 12, 30 APs spent in tree)

Blood Strength: (2 AP) Each time you land a hit you are healed for 1d4 hit points. Each time you kill an opponent you are healed for 1d20 hit points. This healing scales with 100% Melee Power.

NO!!!!! ABSOLUTELY NOT! A barbarian lands about 10 hits a second and he's going to get healed for 1d4 * melee power * healing amp for each hit? This is one of THE most overpowered abilities in the game. And it's not even a capstone. It's a tier 5 ability for god's sake. Anyone can get it with 32 AP in the tree. Barbarian just became the most self sufficient build the game? Is that what the devs want?
First, make this trigger only a fixed number of times per second so that barbarians can have a bit of healing in their tree.
Second, remove that killing heal.
Third, if adding some damage is not compatible with the lore of the ability (what, and using blood to heal many times a second is within reason?) then make a more powerful version of Demoralizing Success. The monsters watching you feed from the blood of their companions are terrorized. Make something that will also work on epic monsters.

Critical Fury: (2 AP) While raging, each hit also grants 1 stack of Fury.

riiight... cause a barbarian can't land 6 hits within 6 seconds. I say again to instead raise the Fury cap (since that raise is in addition to the proposed raise in the core abilities make the raises stack no matter which ability comes first - like raise the max fury stack by +12)

~Sev

Overall, this healing amp is good but basically you just went over the barb tree adding goodies, leaving most previous abilities intact. That created an overpowered ability and many trash abilities. I hope you will consider that the barbarian can welcome the healing amp so healers and potions can heal him well enough, but he does not need a constant healing of about 10 HP per hit? First of all, the client screen would fill with +10s every time a cleave is performed.
Barbarian also needs some more DPS directly linked to his rage. Currently this tree ties rage mostly with Fury and that's it. Why not replace aura of fear (that is pointless) with some new ability for damage when raging? (and preferably not a flat + to damage when raging)

Thanks.

[Vellrad]

In the cores, you add MRR. I think it should be PRR instead and keep Occult Slayer being the anti-magic barbarian =)

Just a suggestion

I agree with that.

[Cetus]

Demoralizing Success: (1 AP, Level 6) When you score a vorpal hit in melee, you inflict Crushing Despair on nearby enemies for 30 seconds on a failed DC 20 Will saving throw. You then inflict Vulnerable Will for 15 seconds, regardless of the Crushing Despair saving throw. Passive: You gain +30 hit points and +10 healing amplification.

The DC should be based off something. A flat DC 20 is meaningless.

Visage of Terror: (1 AP, Level 20) Terrorize an enemy, killing them with fear if they fail a Will save vs 10 + Constitution modifier + half barbarian level. Enemies who make their saving throw are briefly paralyzed with fear instead. (Cost 1 Rage. Cooldown: 30 seconds. Passive: You gain +4 Constitution, +150 hit points and +40 healing amplification.

Without regenerating rages, this is not a good ability. Why would anyone want to instakill a trash mob by wasting a limited rage? Not a good capstone.

Tier One

Ritual Scarring: (1/1/1 AP) +[1/2/3] Intimidate, Haggle and Physical Resistance.

Hate: (1/1/1 AP) Melee Attack: Deals +(1/2/3)[W] damage and generate extra threat. (Cooldown: 15 seconds)

Do You Like Pain?: (1/1/1 AP) When you are hit: [20/40/60]% chance attacker loses 10 AC.

Barbarian Power Attack: (1/1/1 AP, Requires Power Attack) Your Power Attack feat does 1/2/3 additional point of bonus damage ---.

Hardy Rage: (1/1/1 AP) +[1/2/3] Constitution when raging.

Pretty straightforward, no real problems with tier 1 abilities. Of course, everyone will grab tier 3 PA and then throw a point in either hardy rage or PRR and move to the next tier.

Hate is too weak. Between all the other melee attacks, 3W with an enormous 15 second cooldown is an AP trap. Give this some kind of utility, maybe let it power up your next attack with 3W, so that we can hit it and then use another attack that would benefit from it (much like the adrenaline mechanic).

Tier Two (Requires Barbarian Level 2, 5 APs spent in tree)

Fear me!: (2 AP, Requires: Ritual Scarring) When you intimidate, affected enemies are Shaken for 6 seconds. DC 10 + Strength Modifier + Barbarian Level (Note that the DC is currently 13)

I don't know who uses intimidate anymore, but make this a stacking -2 saves penalty. We already have shaken from other sources like bladeforged. If someone makes an intimibarb, this should stack.

Mutilate: (1/1/1 AP, Requires Hate) Hate additionally deals 1d4/1d6/1d8 Charisma damage and 1d4/1d6/1d8 force damage. The force damage scales with 200% Melee Power.

This is terrible as is. Every 15 seconds hate would deal a pointless amount of cha damage and a trivial amount of force damage. With my previous suggestion, let mutilate let hate also empower your next attack to deal 1 point of force damage per character level, scaling with 200% melee power. Now hate makes your next attack deal +3W and 28 points of force damage at cap, which scales with 200% melee power.

I Like Pain: (1/1/1 AP, Requires: Do You Like Pain?) When you are hit: Small chance to gain 50/100/150 Temporary HP. The gain scales with 100% melee power.

Cruel Cut: (1/1/1 AP) Melee Attack: Deals 1d6/2d6/3d6 extra constitution damage as long as you damage your target. (Cooldown: 30 seconds)

Action Boost: Melee Power: (1/1/1 AP) Activate this ability to receive a +[10/20/30] Action Boost bonus to Melee Power for 20 seconds. (Cooldown: 30 seconds)

These are just boring AP sinks. Make some of these more interesting, small chance of temp HP and 30 sec cooldown con damage don't make me interested in the least. Melee power boost is standard, so whatever.

Tier Three (Requires Barbarian Level 3, 10 APs spent in tree)

Aura of Fear: (1/1/1 AP, Requires: Fear Me!) Nearby enemies receive a -2 penalty to Strength and Charisma.
~ Rank 2: Nearby enemies receive a -2 penalty to Strength, Charisma, Dexterity and Wisdom.
~ Rank 3: Nearby enemies receive a -2 penalty to all ability scores.

Nobody cares. -2 stat penalty is the equivalent of leaving this empty.

Slaughter: (1/1/1 AP) Melee Attack: Deals +(5/7.5/10)[W] damage. (Cooldown: 30 seconds)

This is not terrible, but the 30 second cooldown is atrocious. We have monk fists of iron and ranger core attack that each have 3 second cooldowns. We have pally smites and divine sacrifice, which are ALL more powerful than this with significantly shorter cooldowns. Make this like 6 seconds at most then we have a good ability.

Festering Wound: (1/1/1 AP Requires: Cruel Cut) Cruel Cut additionally inflicts 1/2/3 5-seconds stacks of 1d6 Poison damage every 2 seconds and the target loses -50% healing amplification for 5/10/15 seconds. This poison damage scales with 200% Melee Power. Damage stacks fade one at a time.

Again, this is weak. Even when maxed out 3d6 poison damage every 2 seconds that scales with 200% melee power is not good damage, let alone have a prerequisite. Inflict 20 of these stacks for 20d6 points of damage that scales with 200% melee power for spending 6 action points on this. Then it might be useful.

Tier Four (Requires Barbarian Level 4, 20 APs spent in tree)

Laughter: (2 AP, Requires: Slaughter) For many Ravagers, there's no Laughter without Slaughter.
When Slaughter damages an enemy, you gain 3 Fury. When Slaughter scores a critical hit on an enemy, you gain an additional 3 Fury and 10 Melee Power for 15 seconds.

If slaughter's cooldown gets lowered substantially, then we have some substance now.

I Hit Back!: (1/1/1 AP, Requires: I Like Pain) When you are hit: 20% chance to deal 2d8/4d8/6d8 force damage to attacker. This damage scales with 100% Melee Power.

Incredibly weak. After spending 3 AP, I get the chance of applying an average of ~50-60 points of damage with 100 melee power 20% of the time?

No thanks, make it 1d4/1d6/1d8 AoE per character level scales with 100% melee power, if its 20% of the time.

Dismember: (1/1/1 AP, Requires: Festering Wound) Cruel Cut increases Melee Power by 5 for 10 seconds. Cruel Cut additionalyl slows enemy movement speed, or slows attack speed, or deals 2d4/2d6/2d8 force damage, or deals 6d4/6d6/6d8 force damage. This force damage scales with 200% Melee Power.

Constitution/Strength: (2 AP) +1 Constitution or Strength

I find this pretty good.

Tier Five (Requires Barbarian Level 5, Character Level 12, 30 APs spent in tree)

Blood Strength: (2 AP) Each time you land a hit you are healed for 1d4 hit points. Each time you kill an opponent you are healed for 1d20 hit points. This healing scales with 100% Melee Power.

Not bad, with high heal amp and melee power this might be a pretty good survivability boost - gotta play with it when it goes on lamaland.

Bully: (1/1/1 AP, Requires: I Hit back!) You deal +[5/10/15]% damage to helpless enemies.
Requires: I Hit back!

I'll take it

Critical Fury: (2 AP) While raging, each hit also grants 1 stack of Fury.

Increase the stack size, this is meaningless if I'm already maxed out. While raging, your fury limit doubles to 12.

Critical Rage: (2/2 AP) Increases your critical threat range by 1/2 when raging.


(Note that Critical Rage no longer requires the Cruel Cut line.)

These are nice!

[Scrabbler]

A note about Cruel Cut and Mutilate:

For a TWF guy, Cruel Cut typically does 21 Constitution damage, which possibly incaps the mob, or at least gives it a -10 Fortitude against your next Stunning Blow. Similarly, Mutilate is typically 9 Charisma damage, or frequently 12, and many monsters have under 11 Charisma. Of course, ability damage does need two important fixes: removing epic insta-healing, and ensuring that enemy spell DCs are lowered when their charisma goes down.

Too many active attacks:

It might be nicer if instead of Ravager having 3 different active attacks, each on its own cooldown, some of them were shared charges, or linked to each other. For example, hitting with Mutilate could have a 30% chance to refresh Slaughter (or whatever).

About Laughter:

Currently Laughter means you have +10 Meleepower for 50% of the time, assuming you push the button every 30 seconds. And it's a bit better than that because you can make sure to use your active attacks during the period of higher damage. However, maybe some players would prefer not to need to push that button during every 30 seconds of melee, forever... it is kinda a boring task. So here's a suggestion for those people: put Laughter on a multiselector where you can instead choose to get half as much meleepower as a passive benefit.

By the same token, maybe some people would prefer to the option to pick a passive version of Hate + Mutilate which has a lower effect, but procs passively on every Vorpal.

[G_Lich]

Godlike Con Mod - 40, +10 + 14 (+1 later) - 64 will save? Seems fair, but not at the cost of a limited rage ( even if you have 15 these will run out quick )

Capstone forces those who want this into dwarf con build only, unless you build a con-to-hit and con-to-dmg into the core and add something to boost it close to where strength can get. It's not far off, I'm just saying that the capstone DC Ability (typically all or nothing) is very race-restrictive since dwarves are the only melee that can go all out con, and not find themselves lacking damage.

[Dagolar]

Slaughter: (1/1/1 AP) Melee Attack: Deals +(5/7.5/10)[W] damage. (Cooldown: 30 seconds)

Please tell me Slaughter will finally actually WORK.

Slaughter: Melee Attack: Deals +(5/7.5/10)[W] damage. (Cooldown: 2 minutes)

Currently bugged, not giving +10[W]

I last tested it on my barbarian about a month ago, and it still wasn't working.

Meaning, it hasn't been working the entire time it has existed.

Whether this is an erratic or absolute issue, I can't tell you;

Just that I've been trying to get it to work since the start and it never has.

It simply doesn't add any [W] whatsoever to an attack. [and 10W on a THF, KINDA noticeable.]

Thanks


Edit: Also, barbarian stat damaging abilities [eg, Cruel Cut] don't work on most* Epic mobs unless you have high fort piercing [or an ally with Assassin's Trick].
Whether this part is intentional or not, dunno; but more importantly, none of the upgrades to Cruel Cut function unless the stat damage procs- meaning the entire ability is useless unless you spec to get it to work.

Just, something I thought I'd note for your feedback on intent.


* (Been a while since I tested it; I recall it works in wildernesses and EN quests, I can't remember EH, and certainly does not function in EE)

[CaptainSpacePony]

We will look into this. If the capstone doesn't have an auto paralyze (works even if the save is made against death) then it is too weak.

Sev~

I think it maybe too weak even then as it burns a rage. I haven't played a barb in years though, so I could be wrong. I'm not sure how many rages Epic barbs have to spare.

Btw, I think a DC in the low 50s is about the best a con build could do so it really is mostly "paralyze a mob for 1 rage"

[CaptainSpacePony]

I am afraid my feedback is pretty weak because I found the whole tree to so uninteresting that I haven't given it much thought other than "why bother?"

In spite of that, my few thoughts are

You said you wanted to focus on blood rage? I must have missed how you did that. Basically I start w/0 stacks and quickly get to 6. From there it does nothing interesting. I expected the cores to increase the max stacks and either active abilities either strip stacks for effects or passive abilities that activated once I got enough stacks.

Regarding Stat Drain attacks with cool downs > 3 seconds? Are epic mobs still 90% resistant and recover 1/pt every 2 or 3 seconds? If so, what's the point?

Slaughter looks like it could be worth the painful cool down if paired w/Fury of the Wild if you are skilled enough to use it with adrenaline.

[HatsuharuZ]

Question:

Could the DC-based abilities in this tree be changed to use the player's "Intimidate" skill modifier? Would that be a buff? These abilities might scale better that way.

[CaptainSpacePony]

We understand that there are encounters where ability damage is less useful but we didn't feel comfortable removing these abilities from the tree for players who combo them with items or other attribute abilities.

Sev~

I completely agree that ability damage should remain with the disclaimer that the whole stat damage system needs a serious update. Talk about a mechanic that doesn't scale well--sheesh!

If you're not already doing it, it's time to kick around options to move stat damage back out of the "joke" category.

[LrdSlvrhnd]

Slashing would be reduced by certain abilities and thus be a nerf. We don't want to do untyped. The problem with Bane is the same problem as alignment damage; players don't understand what is affected by it. For players, bane refers to damage that affects a specific creature type so I don't know if we want to use it for more universal damage like this.

I would personally like to make it bleed damage but I'd have to look at Bleed damage to make sure that's an actual damage type and see what reduces it.



We'll look into Fury again. Critical Fury got changed late in the process.

Sev~

Pretty sure you have a few other things that do general "bane" damage, but I can't think of them off-hand. I believe Bleed is considered slashing, and undead and constructs (possibly not WF, but all others) are immune to it. If you don't want to do untyped for whatever reason - and honestly, there's not that much immune to Force so Untyped would really just mean it now works against Arach's Knight - then I would suggest doing some special damage type. Make it thematic and call it Rage Damage, or Pain Damage or something.

sonic damage. its more thematical.

edit: bleed would probably be more fitting for a FB.

I could live with sonic.

OS is the anti magic tree. force doesn't belong there.

Fight fire with fire, I'm fine with Force being in OS *g*

By the same token, maybe some people would prefer to the option to pick a passive version of Hate + Mutilate which has a lower effect, but procs passively on every Vorpal.[/indent]

I'm ALWAYS for an option of a passive that's not as good vs. an active that I have to click every few seconds. Always. Yes, please.

[PermaBanned]

Slashing would be reduced by certain abilities and thus be a nerf. We don't want to do untyped. The problem with Bane is the same problem as alignment damage; players don't understand what is affected by it. For players, bane refers to damage that affects a specific creature type so I don't know if we want to use it for more universal damage like this.

I would personally like to make it bleed damage but I'd have to look at Bleed damage to make sure that's an actual damage type and see what reduces it.

Ruin does Bane damage, and Vicious does Bane damage to ones self; players seem able to figure those out just fine It's perfect here: it's unresistable and has it's own damage type icon that shows in the floating/scrolling numbers on the screen so players would always be able to see that it's working.

Bleed Damage is pretty steightforward: if the mob doesn't bleed, the ability doesn't work. This would be useless against Undead, Elementals, most Constructs & all objects, Ooozes... maybe even a thing or two I'm forgetting here...

Make it Bane please.

[moo_cow]

I Hit Back!: (1/1/1 AP, Requires: I Like Pain) When you are hit: 20% chance to deal 2d8/4d8/6d8 force damage to attacker. This damage scales with 100% Melee Power.

Guards like this are not useful for anyone. Anyone who cares will be walking around with 50% displacement and a bit of dodge. So basically every 10 swings an enemy makes they will take like 40 force damage, this is no good, even scaled with melee power.

Every single enhancement should at least be useful even if it is only a low tier, there is so many enhancements in this game that no one would touch with a 10 foot pole. Please avoid this, these enhancements are just filler and no one will ever take them.

[Qhualor]

I Hit Back!: (1/1/1 AP, Requires: I Like Pain) When you are hit: 20% chance to deal 2d8/4d8/6d8 force damage to attacker. This damage scales with 100% Melee Power.

Guards like this are not useful for anyone. Anyone who cares will be walking around with 50% displacement and a bit of dodge. So basically every 10 swings an enemy makes they will take like 40 force damage, this is no good, even scaled with melee power.

Every single enhancement should at least be useful even if it is only a low tier, there is so many enhancements in this game that no one would touch with a 10 foot pole. Please avoid this, these enhancements are just filler and no one will ever take them.

normally barbs would be raging so they would have to dismiss rage every 30 seconds to cast displace or what? every 1 1/2 minutes from a GS clicky? and that's if they invest in umd.

[Qhualor]

after more thought, sonic damage is more FB. bleed actually makes more sense with Ravager. theres a lot of stat damage enhancements in the tree so bleeding enemies makes sense.