15/3/2 Evasion Paladin - cant live without HS+Zeal - any Deathwward alternative?

[MacRighteous]

Like the title says - gave up DW for HS - found I cant live without it so swapping for DW in some dungeons where drain is an issue isnt really viable - is there another enhancement or destiny or even an item that has DW?
Thanks

[Erofen]

Shadowdancer sealed soul

Also there is a dw clicky from tangleroot and a mass dw clicky from epic sands

[unbongwah]

Is there some reason you're not just taking KotC Sealed Life?

[MacRighteous]

Is there some reason you're not just taking KotC Sealed Life?

Ummm? No.... (embarrassed) I didn't remember it was there... now to find 2 APs... Thanks

[MacRighteous]

Ok - so that's awesome - picking up Sealed Life means a 15 Pally can have HS+Zeal+DW (with all the heal options no need for Cure) so Im struggling to understand why the need to go pure or beyond level 15 in pally? I was considering a 19/1 splash to pick up DW and either an extra fighter feat or a free wiz metamagic feat... but now I'm not sure there is a case for that or not? any thoughts?

[gwonbush]

The cores in Knight of the Chalice or Vanguard are the reason to go pure or near pure. The level 18 core in KoTC gives an additional 2d6 light damage a hit that scales with melee power as well as doing 500 damage to undead on vorpal. The capstone gives 4 Cha, 10 melee power, an additional 2d6 light damage and good dr bypass.

As for Vanguard, you get 5% more attack speed as well as +W, crit range and multiplier on your shield for the level 18 core. The capstone gives 5% attack speed, 5% doublestrike, +2 to hit and damage as well as a chance to stun with a good DC in your normal attack sequence.

[unbongwah]

Ok - so that's awesome - picking up Sealed Life means a 15 Pally can have HS+Zeal+DW (with all the heal options no need for Cure) so Im struggling to understand why the need to go pure or beyond level 15 in pally? I was considering a 19/1 splash to pick up DW and either an extra fighter feat or a free wiz metamagic feat... but now I'm not sure there is a case for that or not?

Deathward protects against a lot more than just level drain; it also protects against instakills (although so will Deathblock) and negative energy effects like Inflict spells.

As gwonbush said, the main reason to stay pure is the capstones; KotC and Vanguard provide nice DPS perks (+10 Melee Power or +5% doublestrike) while Eternal Defender is good if you're focused on max survivability.

[EllisDee37]

I'ev been mulling over for the past couple weeks what the value of an evasion paladin is now that heavy armor pure paladins are so strong. My conclusion is that it's only worth building an evasion paladin if you also take full trapping skills.

To that end, I plan to update my evasion paladin build to 15/5 paladin/rogue, spacing the five rogue levels out toward the end of the build to "catch up" on umd and open lock. Even with a human and starting int of 14, it still won't be possible to keep up with spot, so spot will be a dump skill. But having switched my paladin to a staff build running a full 15/5 life, I can confirm that it's possible to keep both search and disable fully maxed the whole way through, making it a capable trapper.

Before U23 I was taking the acrobat tree to tier 5 to use staffs, so like you I was slotting deathward instead of cure serious. To cope with that I twisted in rejuvenation cocoon. Now that I no longer need acrobat 5 to use staffs, I'll be switching back to kotc 5 and taking sealed life and slotting a deathblock augment in a yellow.

There is some value to an 18/2 pally/rogue, but I think a pure 20 pally would be strictly better, making 18/2 largely irrelevant. A 15/3/2 pally/rogue/fighter build doesn't get much out of the fighter splash now that paladins save two feats on cleaves, so again I think a pure pally brings more to the table. A 15/5 split finally offers something you can't just do better with a pure pally: trap skills. So that's the plan. Hopefully I can get the thread updated sometime within the next week. (U23 is causing me to update all three of my melee build threads.)

[goodspeed]

I'ev been mulling over for the past couple weeks what the value of an evasion paladin is now that heavy armor pure paladins are so strong. My conclusion is that it's only worth building an evasion paladin if you also take full trapping skills.

To that end, I plan to update my evasion paladin build to 15/5 paladin/rogue, spacing the five rogue levels out toward the end of the build to "catch up" on umd and open lock. Even with a human and starting int of 14, it still won't be possible to keep up with spot, so spot will be a dump skill. But having switched my paladin to a staff build running a full 15/5 life, I can confirm that it's possible to keep both search and disable fully maxed the whole way through, making it a capable trapper.

Before U23 I was taking the acrobat tree to tier 5 to use staffs, so like you I was slotting deathward instead of cure serious. To cope with that I twisted in rejuvenation cocoon. Now that I no longer need acrobat 5 to use staffs, I'll be switching back to kotc 5 and taking sealed life and slotting a deathblock augment in a yellow.

There is some value to an 18/2 pally/rogue, but I think a pure 20 pally would be strictly better, making 18/2 largely irrelevant. A 15/3/2 pally/rogue/fighter build doesn't get much out of the fighter splash now that paladins save two feats on cleaves, so again I think a pure pally brings more to the table. A 15/5 split finally offers something you can't just do better with a pure pally: trap skills. So that's the plan. Hopefully I can get the thread updated sometime within the next week. (U23 is causing me to update all three of my melee build threads.)

could switch the ftr for rng and keep haste boost as well as add manyshot. And ya, holy sword works on the bow.

[EllisDee37]

could switch the ftr for rng and keep haste boost as well as add manyshot. And ya, holy sword works on the bow.

We can take haste boost in the acrobat tree, even if we don't use staffs. If you can settle for just 10% haste boost (which is what I'm considering) it costs 7 AP. 11 AP for the full 30%.

Manyshot would be pretty tough to qualify for unless we take 6 ranger levels. It's work just to qualify for precision, and that only requires 13 dex.

[goodspeed]

We can take haste boost in the acrobat tree, even if we don't use staffs. If you can settle for just 10% haste boost (which is what I'm considering) it costs 7 AP. 11 AP for the full 30%.

Manyshot would be pretty tough to qualify for unless we take 6 ranger levels. It's work just to qualify for precision, and that only requires 13 dex.

oh definitely. but doable with 3 rng. Even with the less need of some feats id still go human. For some extra wiggle room. But you can just fit the stuff in.

[unbongwah]

Manyshot would be pretty tough to qualify for unless we take 6 ranger levels. It's work just to qualify for precision, and that only requires 13 dex.

The 28-pt human version of my Hozoin-Kyuu manages to squeeze in Manyshot and THF chain on a pal 15 / rog 3 / rgr 2 split. If not going for a staff build, you could swap rog for ftr or monk for extra feats; or go more rgr for extra feat(s). Pal 15 / rgr 4 / ftr 1 works well too, although a pretty good case can be made for rgr 5 / pal 15 so you can get Dance of Death.

[EllisDee37]

The 28-pt human version of my Hozoin-Kyuu manages to squeeze in Manyshot and THF chain on a pal 15 / rog 3 / rgr 2 split. If not going for a staff build, you could swap rog for ftr or monk for extra feats; or go more rgr for extra feat(s). Pal 15 / rgr 4 / ftr 1 works well too, although a pretty good case can be made for rgr 5 / pal 15 so you can get Dance of Death.

That build, which is quite nice, doesn't take full trapping skills. When you factor in 14 int, manyshot is much tougher to qualify for.

EDIT: Apologies, I got confused which thread I was in. In response to the OP, both your and goodspeed's responses are solid. If they're responses to the build I described -- and they kind of appear to be -- the manyshot route is very difficult while trying to maintain full trapping skills.