Paladin THF Build

[Takllin]

Weird , I've never had an issue and dont carry cacoon.
Maybe I'm smoking too much crack but was sure the reconstruct was working, divine might wasn't or the Crusader AoE.
Perhaps the effect just didn't last long enough to really hurt and I was reconstructing after it wore off?
Survivability was not an issue, BF is just cake walking in there unless you stand in the fire and lose all your spell points.

Are you running EE or EH/EN? EH/EN it doesn't matter because they are ridiculously easy. EE is very different.

I know Recon doesn't work when quelled. Divine Might works when quelled, I just used it in the raid while quelled. Quell also lasts 30 seconds, I kinda doubt you are talking about running EE...

[Chimeran1]

Whole fleshy vs BF selfheal comparison is pointless if you are not planning to run elite (talking about MoD here), where fleshy > bladeforged, noone cares about the 6 minute normal runs.

I'd pick fleshy any day over BF because BF is way too taxing on AP for a class that already has amazing selfhealing capabilities. Human can get racial boost for a grand total of 1 AP and as BF you spend 16. It results in a tiny bit better damage output because of the PA line, but you will have to give up on something from other trees. Being a robot also gives serious disadvantages if you are planning to run in crusader because of the healamp penatly.

BF recon is supposedly silenced by quells and deathknights, and I think I remember Cetus twisting coccoon for ee to work around that (although it's supposed to stop EA slas as well and it doesn't... weird stuff).

@ChemE: PDK is decent choice, although I prefer pure (capstone is very nice, that light damage gets added to every glancing blow too). 19/1 gets 3rd spell slot for cure moderate, which atm hits me with my setup for 450ish average, 18/1/1 can get manyshot. Pure human is very solid choice, I made pure pdk with +1 lr heart for aesthetic reasons (and so I get a PDK life when I tr), but human would make no difference compared to PDK with my setup. I like STR based over CHA or whatever else, saves will be no fail anyway and dps is better that way. If you have any questions I'm happy to answer in game.

Bladeforge is not running in Crusader for the AoE heal and is not at any disadvantage from heal amp.
I will take a full instant repair over any HoT.
The reconstruct also boosts melee speed

Power of the Forge: Action Boost: For 20 seconds you gain:
+20% Action Boost bonus to weapon damage
+30 Action Boost bonus to Universal Spell Power
+4 Action Boost bonus to all Saving Throws
+10 Action Boost bonus to Armor Class and Physical Resistance Rating

Each to their own.
For me it is Bladeforge for the ease of leveling, immunities, self repair, not needing to slot cacoon twist, not needing to use spell slots for heals, not getting held or poisoned, exhausted etc.
I can still have tier 5 KotC, fighter haste boost, sacred defender tier4 and all the good racials, AP have never been an issue, DPS is always very good and the survivability is exceptional.

[Toro12]

Extend isn't particularly useful for zeal, holy sword and resists, which all last at least 19 minutes on a 19/1 build. (24 minutes if you're in Divine Crusader, which you probably will be.)

It helps with divine favor only in a "quality of life" sense. At 10 spell points to cast, extend gives no mana savings. Twice the duration for twice the cost. I find that when my only short-term buff is divine favor, I prefer not extending it. Divine favor has a max caster level of 18, meaning it caps at 2:12. That's close enough to divine might's 2:00 to be a nice easy deal of just refreshing both at the same time, as opposed to keeping track of two different counters.

I used to value extend quite a bit for zeal, but now that it's 1 minute per level I dropped extend like a bad habit.

I considered it but I really like the extended holy sword and zeal for longer quests and explorer areas. I'm a bit pickier with DM so I go longer between shrines. Same goes for resists.

I get what you are saying and I did even look to drop extend (and toughness ) when I took my pally out of retirement but for what?
I considered cleaves but sharing cooldowns with the pally EnH they aren't all that useful. Not seeing anything I kept extend and picked up stunning blow at 18.

On a THF toon I just don't see that much good stuff in feats that I would use more than extend. Maybe empower heal if I ever can get myself to grind through destinies for cocoon. Ill pick up OWcrit and per a haste feats in epic which means I could still get emphjeal.
Plus I still have toughness to burn off

[EllisDee37]

I did [...] look to drop extend (and toughness ) when I took my pally out of retirement but for what?

I consider Empower Heal a must have, which I take instead of your toughness. Ideally at level 12.

I now take Precision instead of Extend. Like you I dropped the two cleave feats.

[Chimeran1]

I consider Empower Heal a must have, which I take instead of your toughness. Ideally at level 12.

I now take Precision instead of Extend. Like you I dropped the two cleave feats.

Empower heal I always figured was for healers/clerics, heal amp your lay on hands is 1000+, Crusader aura 80+
Why bother with precision, do you have a problem hitting?
With gear, miss chance should only be on a 1
The fortification bypass better than power Attack?
5 extra damage ( 8 if Bladeforged ) on a Crit multiplier is a whole lot of hurt you would be missing out on.
Comparable to 10 strength ( 16 if Bladeforged ) worth of damage mod.
Bastard sword will be 15-20 crit range, that's a lot of dps you would be missing out on if a SWF ( if you are going the DPS path )

Just curious, because I have heard the debate on power Attack and precision a few times.

[EllisDee37]

Empower heal I always figured was for healers/clerics, heal amp your lay on hands is 1000+, Crusader aura 80+

It's for cure spells.

Why bother with precision, [...] The fortification bypass better than power Attack?

The bonus to hit is meaningless. The sole reason to take precision is the fort bypass, and yes, it is massively huge for undead, construct and plant quests, where everything you face has 100% fort. Much better than power attack. Consider if you build for fort bypass:

35% dragon's edge
25% precision
15% grim precision (twist from shadowdancer)
5% ship buff
---
80% fort bypass

Just comparing in a vacuum, as a paladin you'll almost certainly have a crit profile of 13-20x3 at a minimum, which is what you have with holy sword while using any falchion or (if you're into staff builds) a sireth. Let's call your base damage that multiplies with crits x. In 20 attacks, assuming you hit on a 2, that gives you 19x base damage before crits, plus an extra 16x on top of that from crits.

Assuming you're facing 100% fort mobs, like say you're running druid's deep, or any of the endgame undead quests/raids, or even brothers of the forge...

With power attack:
19*(x+5) = 19x + 95

With precision:
(19 + (25% of 8) * 2)x = (19 + 2*2)x = 23x

Comparing them:
23x = 19x+95
4x = 95
x = 23.75

That means if you do more than 23.75 damage per swing (which I sincerely hope you do), then precision is better than power attack against 100% fort mobs. I believe this also follows for any mobs with at least 25% more fort than you can bypass without precision.

EDIT: Power attack is worth 10 instead of 5 for THF. In that case, precision is better than power attack if you do at least 47.5 damage per swing. Which again, I sincerely hope you do.

[unbongwah]

Ideally you have both, IMHO: Power Atk for zero-Fortification mobs or for using FotW / LD abilities, Precision for high-Fort mobs or ranged atks. But (A) a pure pally is still feat-starved and (B) Precision req's base DEX 13 and a lot of THF pallies dump DEX. So as always, it's a question of tradeoffs.

[Toro12]

I consider Empower Heal a must have, which I take instead of your toughness. Ideally at level 12.

I now take Precision instead of Extend. Like you I dropped the two cleave feats.

Toughness is a remnant of a by-gone era, taken at level 1 or 3
Precision is out as dex is dump stAted

Never had the cleaves , when this toon was active they didn't give +[w] and had slow animations that lowered DPS.

She was in retirement bank toon purgatory a long time
----
What would you emp heal on ? An 8 sp CMW ?
Without anything to lower the cost it is cheaper to cast twice. Sure emp CSW for emergencies but still seems expensive.
When I go Cocoon I'll probably grab it till then extend is good enough.

[EllisDee37]

What would you emp heal on ? An 8 sp CMW ?

Yep.

[moo_cow]

If you have the feats I would take both PA and Precision. Assuming you are running a falchion with fairly good dps both would have their advantages.

25 % precision for a decently built pally will nab you an extra 20 damage + per swing against fort mobs

+10 damage from PA would nab an extra 20 damage + against trash.

When I ran THF I did like to use PA more often for the momentum swings and such but I guess it depends on how you like to swing your weapon.

[ChemE]

Decided to go THF, pure pally and human; at level 12 so far and I like it. Both healing and damage are very good.