+20 hearts in U23?

[Ausdoerrt]

So, with all the huge changes coming, are we getting a +20 heart? Because I used my previous one when pallies got rebalanced to useless in U19, and would appreciate the opportunity to return to the class. Thanks!

[ArcaneArcher52689]

Doubt we'll get anything more than +0 LR hearts.

[MadCookieQueen]

In short...no.

The only time they released +20 hearts was for when the massive effect EVERY build on server enhancement pass came through.

These changes are NOT effecting EVERY build in DDO.


TR and rebuild...it's efficient and you get something useful out of the deal.

[Ausdoerrt]

On the one hand, you're right. On the other hand, I've seen other MMOs, including "that other game" hand out full respec tokens for every build change, so every other update.

Would have been a nice gesture to at least address the issue in some way (i.e.: say something), not assume that everyone's gonna fork over the cash.

[MadCookieQueen]

On the one hand, you're right. On the other hand, I've seen other MMOs, including "that other game" hand out full respec tokens for every build change, so every other update.

Would have been a nice gesture to at least address the issue in some way (i.e.: say something), not assume that everyone's gonna fork over the cash.

That other game can go do something with itself that I wouldn't mention in front of my kids ^^


Fork over the cash for what? Tokens of the Twelve still turn into free True Hearts and Comms of Valor still turn into Epic and Icon Hearts...no cash to spend there.

[ArcaneArcher52689]

In short...no.

The only time they released +20 hearts was for when the massive effect EVERY build on server enhancement pass came through.

These changes are NOT effecting EVERY build in DDO.


TR and rebuild...it's efficient and you get something useful out of the deal.

While I agree that we don't need a +20 heart, I do think it merits a free +0 LR. These changes do affect almost every single melee build in the game in some form or another. Many tanks might prefer to switch from evasion based to tower shields. Many KotC paladins will have 2 obsolete feats. Any ranged build with Overwhelming critical will have 2 obsolete feats.

So, while they're not affecting every single build in the game, but they are affecting a heavy number of them. Also, I think a lot of the feats, like epic power, may require an LR in order to acquire them(like lore feats)

[Kalevor]

While I agree that we don't need a +20 heart, I do think it merits a free +0 LR. These changes do affect almost every single melee build in the game in some form or another. Many tanks might prefer to switch from evasion based to tower shields. Many KotC paladins will have 2 obsolete feats. Any ranged build with Overwhelming critical will have 2 obsolete feats.

So, while they're not affecting every single build in the game, but they are affecting a heavy number of them. Also, I think a lot of the feats, like epic power, may require an LR in order to acquire them(like lore feats)

true, +0 LR would help a lot for those who don't want to ETR...

[MadCookieQueen]

true, +0 LR would help a lot for those who don't want to ETR...

see this just boggles my mind...one of the things I like about the eTR is because of the free LR...if I'm going to spend my time redoing all my levels it would be nice to get something for it. This way I at least get an epic past life feat. Granted going from 20 - 28 is a bit of a uphill battle but thank goodness for elite sagas...run them up in that life, get new life, cash them all in...get to like level 23 before questing and then run.

I think that's why you aren't going to see free lesser hearts or anything...Turbine already has ways for players to do it for free.

Of course I can see hearts going on sale to celebrate u23 ^^

[Allorian]

While I agree that we don't need a +20 heart, I do think it merits a free +0 LR. These changes do affect almost every single melee build in the game in some form or another. Many tanks might prefer to switch from evasion based to tower shields. Many KotC paladins will have 2 obsolete feats. Any ranged build with Overwhelming critical will have 2 obsolete feats.

So, while they're not affecting every single build in the game, but they are affecting a heavy number of them. Also, I think a lot of the feats, like epic power, may require an LR in order to acquire them(like lore feats)

Well, I can see some sort of heart would be used by most all melee's. There are a lot of 12/6/2's out there, which I am as well. So maybe if they put out a +8 heart so people could make their character a straight classed fighter or paladin or whatever. I know that when U23 goes live I will probably go from a 12 ftr/6 paly/2 rouge to a straight class 20 Fighter. w/the Kensai capstone. I for one really enjoyed playing that build, but it was originally taken out of necessity. You pretty much had to take evasion just to make your self more survivable, with the changes to PRR and MRR evasion is no longer needed and I can go back to playing a straight classed fighter w/heavy armor. In fact with the changes to PRR, MRR, Heavy armors and MP, everyone knows that straight classed Paladins and Fighters are going to be waaay better than melee splash builds. There are a lot of melee characters in this game, probably some where around 65-75% of the character base, so a lot of people will be affected.

Having to TR just to remake you character is a bit much, so maybe a +8 or +10 heart of wood might not be a bad idea, probably would not need a full +20. The only time I foresee that is if someone had a character that was of a entirely different class and wanted to make a completely new build into a melee type, then that +20 HOW would come in handy for them so they would not need to TR. Just my 2 cents guys.

Thx
Glam

[Seikojin]

As much as I would like a +20 LR heart, I think the best money making decision is to let u23 come out, and see if players start walking when they don't get a +20 heart.

[ArcaneArcher52689]

see this just boggles my mind...one of the things I like about the eTR is because of the free LR...if I'm going to spend my time redoing all my levels it would be nice to get something for it. This way I at least get an epic past life feat. Granted going from 20 - 28 is a bit of a uphill battle but thank goodness for elite sagas...run them up in that life, get new life, cash them all in...get to like level 23 before questing and then run.

I think that's why you aren't going to see free lesser hearts or anything...Turbine already has ways for players to do it for free.

Of course I can see hearts going on sale to celebrate u23 ^^

So, for me, 20-28 takes about 6-8 weeks, soloing Epic hard/normal. There could be a new update by the time I get that done...

[EllisDee37]

I'm finding the ETR grind pretty painful, but not insurmountable. For grinding out karma I mostly solo EN/EH, not caring about valor. So far I'm managing 4k/minute sustainable, though this would be higher if I had an epic tome or better pots. Currently I just use the 5% cannith pots and have no epic tome at all.

My three circuits are each around 50-54 minutes long, designed to support using the old-style xp shrine ship buffs. Each generates around 220k xp, or 660k per day for three hours effort. The idea is to get it done in 10 days, but truth be told it's pretty grindy. I haven't yet managed to do all three circuit sin a single day, but instead usually stop after two. The two I do changes each day, so it at least breaks up the monotony a bit.

Circuit 1
---------
 - VON3
   - Key to Eveningstar, grab hireling*
   - Sell/repair in tavern, acquire Outbreak & Overgrowth
   - Acquire Demonweb/Underdark quests if don't have from yesterday
   - Acquire Impossible if don't have it from yesterday
 - Impossible Demands
   - recall to Eveningstar
 - Outbreak
   - Re-acquire Impossible
 - Overgrowth
   - Sell/repair
 - Thorn and Paw
 - Druid's Curse

Circuit 2
---------
 - Lords of Dust
 - Rusted Blades
   - Recall once
 - Death Undone
   - Recall twice, enter demonweb
 - Trial By Fury
 - Deal and the Demon
 - Reclaiming the Rift
   - Key to Eveningstar
 - Don't Drink the Water
   - Collect/Re-acquire demonweb/underdark quests

Circuit 3
---------
 - Offering of Blood
   - GT back to zawabi, re-acquire, teleport to House P
 - Big Top
   - Gate 1: Straight (Blue = Yellow X)
   - Gate 2: Left (Green = White Triangle) Right (Yellow = Red Diamond)
   - Gate 3: Right (Orange = Green Circle) Left (Purple = Yellow Square)
   - Re-acquire, house teleporter to Kundarak, sell/repair in Fens
 - Fathom the Depths
 - Claw of Vulkoor
   - Teleport to Deneith
 - Spies in the House

The hireling I get early in the first circuit isn't used until the second one, where I use him to take the HP hit in Reclaiming the Rift by having him do the rift closing. It doesn't matter which hire does this, so I typically just use Wyoh. On non-trappers, it's preferred to pick up a level 23 or 24 rogue hire who can then reach 80 open the lock for Death Undone. If you can't somehow hit 80 open lock, skip death undone.

I haven't yet hammered out the higher level circut(s), which will likely focus on high road and gianthold.

[-Zyxas-]

The hireling I get early in the first circuit isn't used until the second one, where I use him to take the HP hit in Reclaiming the Rift by having him do the rift closing. It doesn't matter which hire does this, so I typically just use Wyoh. On non-trappers, it's preferred to pick up a level 23 or 24 rogue hire who can then reach 80 open the lock for Death Undone. If you can't somehow hit 80 open lock, skip death undone.

I haven't yet hammered out the higher level circut(s), which will likely focus on high road and gianthold.

Cool stuff.

Just a brief comment - you can solo Rift without a hireling by just jumping off the side. It resets your stacks to zero. Unless you have a mostly-full group, it's kind of nice to jump off once or twice in the quest. From the end island, it puts you at the top of the "staircase" island right before, so it's easy to return, and doesn't slow you down much especially if you aren't melee.

[EllisDee37]

Cool stuff.

Just a brief comment - you can solo Rift without a hireling by just jumping off the side. It resets your stacks to zero. Unless you have a mostly-full group, it's kind of nice to jump off once or twice in the quest. From the end island, it puts you at the top of the "staircase" island right before, so it's easy to return, and doesn't slow you down much especially if you aren't melee.

Great tip, thanks!

[Kalevor]

see this just boggles my mind...one of the things I like about the eTR is because of the free LR...if I'm going to spend my time redoing all my levels it would be nice to get something for it. This way I at least get an epic past life feat. Granted going from 20 - 28 is a bit of a uphill battle but thank goodness for elite sagas...run them up in that life, get new life, cash them all in...get to like level 23 before questing and then run.

I think that's why you aren't going to see free lesser hearts or anything...Turbine already has ways for players to do it for free.

Of course I can see hearts going on sale to celebrate u23 ^^

So if i have 10 toons and i want to re-adjust all of them i have to ETR because its easy instead of play quest or raid that i actually enjoy?

[Ausdoerrt]

see this just boggles my mind...one of the things I like about the eTR is because of the free LR...if I'm going to spend my time redoing all my levels it would be nice to get something for it. This way I at least get an epic past life feat. Granted going from 20 - 28 is a bit of a uphill battle but thank goodness for elite sagas...run them up in that life, get new life, cash them all in...get to like level 23 before questing and then run.

I think that's why you aren't going to see free lesser hearts or anything...Turbine already has ways for players to do it for free.

It's not free - you either spend money, or you spend time(=money) acquiring it. AND you lose character progress to boot (yeah you get a past life, but that doesn't justify the investment for everyone). Not everyone wants or has the time to TR/ETR all their toons every time Turbine makes a global change.

LR/TR should be reserved for cases when players want to rebuild because they got bored of their old build or screwed up a character of their own accord. Here, it isn't the case.


P.S. Just in case - can see it coming. No, I don't need "tips" on how to TR in two days grinding 5 quests on elite while sitting in a basement somewhere - that's not how I play, and that's not the point of my thread.

As much as I would like a +20 LR heart, I think the best money making decision is to let u23 come out, and see if players start walking when they don't get a +20 heart.

For all we know about the game, nothing will make the core group walk. However, the issue is respect for the product and its customers. Are the devs putting in all the work to make this a good, satisfying game - or a cheap money-pinching Korean/Chinese-like knock-off? I honestly think the latter is a bad idea, because such games rely on high player turnover, and DDO is too niche for that and should do everything for customer retention.

[EllisDee37]

So if i have 10 toons and i want to re-adjust all of them i have to ETR because its easy instead of play quest or raid that i actually enjoy?

You have 10 paladins?

[Thrudh]

You have 10 paladins?

Doesn't everybody?

[Ausdoerrt]

You have 10 paladins?

Nice strawman. Faaaail.

Sigh, if only they paid that much attention to just paladins...

[Kalevor]

You have 10 paladins?

Nop but i have some toons that need rework, why?

-changes in armor and MRR
-changes in OC

and yes one of them is pally and in need of serious rework.

None of them are my main, are at cap or almost, and i don't want to spend time to re-do. I do not demand but it would be nice to get a LR. It's just a suggestion.

Cheers