Turbine now wants to sell PrEs.

[Oxarhamar]

I think alot fewer people would be angry if this was a racial tree and for flavor reasons called something else. I dont think it could take that much more time to do a few palatte swaps of say Elf (making Grey Elves/Sun Elves) or Human palate swaps with glowy eyes (Aasimir)

I think that if this had been a race there would be far less outcry.

Who cares about the outcry

As a race it's restrictive

As a tree available to any class/race it's much more attractive.

[slarden]

Assassins, artificers, eld knights, etc.

Most builds just won't be able to fit the tree in because the 80AP limit is still there.

Sev mentioned this might be a favor reward in a future release - that's a good idea. I like that it is free to VIPs. FTP have the same option they always have - earn TP through playing or spend. Obviously Turbine's goal is not to make it too easy to earn everything in the game through game play.

[B0ltdrag0n]

Who cares about the outcry

As a race it's restrictive

As a tree available to any class/race it's much more attractive.

I never said I wanted it to be so. I am saying that would have quelled the outrage.

[zwiebelring]

Totally okay for me. Turbine has to make money. So they sell products. I could care less about all, who think they should have everything for free. If VIPs get it free, fine, if you want it free, get a VIP account. Easy as that. If you are premium and like to have new stuff then wait till you have money, and buy it then. What's the big deal?

Fyi, Warforged were considered OP back then as well. Now nobody even looks at them. It is lvl. 30 people. Nothing will ever be less powerful than content before. Deal with it.

[Tscheuss]

The only thing duplicitous is the hair-splitting you're trying to do to avoid the underlying paradigm shift at work here.

VIP's had to PAY for Epic Destinies (a post 20 enhancement tree system) like everyone else, either as part of purchasing the MotU Expansion or as a 995TP extra.

The Harper Enhancement Tree, however, is FREE for VIP. Turbine was under no contractual obligation to give it to VIPs for free (they didn't give you EDs for free did they?). It's just another thing they can use to sweeten their VIP package. But even as some VIPS users have noted, there will be consequences in doing this. Some of which have been covered above.

I don't know about you, but I don't know anyone playing the post 20 game that doesn't have EDs (for good reason). And if Harper is any indication, these Heroic universal trees will be as equally important for certain classes (with more as time goes on). So the idea of them being "optional" ends up being about as honest as saying ED's are "optional" in the end game.

Short of a party of characters running epics without ED's, we have insufficient data to judge whether ED's are "optional" in your sense, much less whether referring to ED's as optional is honest or dishonest. Have you something more concrete to offer?

[Full_Bleed]

From the Harper thread; we will be looking to add this as a reward for favor (Harper favor is the most obvious choice here) for Update 24.

Sev~

While I can appreciate an in-game way to unlock, it doesn't address most of my underlying issues with the trend. The actual cost is probably the least of my concerns so I'm likely to just buy the darn thing so I can start using it now instead of 6 months from now when I've got all the favor and am ready to TR out of the class.

However, all of my other concerns (i.e. the disparity of core class power/effectiveness based largely on account type and paid enhancements & the idea of fixing bad/flawed enhancement trees with paid enhancement trees) will still stand even if a favor unlock exists (particularly if the unlock is as onerous as I expect it to be).

[UurlockYgmeov]

From the Harper thread; we will be looking to add this as a reward for favor (Harper favor is the most obvious choice here) for Update 24.

Sev~

+10 Nice!

[Talon_Moonshadow]

For the first few years of this game, I paid a monthly subscription to play it.
I got all the new content, new races, classes, etc.
But I had to pay that monthly fee to get it.


Now, I still pay that same monthly fee, and I still get most of those same things.








(now, if you want to complain about paid expansions, I'm all ears.)

[Uska]

Totally okay for me. Turbine has to make money. So they sell products. I could care less about all, who think they should have everything for free. If VIPs get it free, fine, if you want it free, get a VIP account. Easy as that. If you are premium and like to have new stuff then wait till you have money, and buy it then. What's the big deal?

Fyi, Warforged were considered OP back then as well. Now nobody even looks at them. It is lvl. 30 people. Nothing will ever be less powerful than content before. Deal with it.

And warforged were considered gimp when they first came out and then they got their full abilities and were considered op then they lost part of that.


I am VIP and always have been and will be and I don't think a pre should be free to vio's if it's not free to all classes and races are one thing but a pre is something all can use if they squeeze it in

[Battlehawke]

I hear you! Sometimes in life you have to pick between those who pay for your services and those who don't. If you are lucky, sometimes you can provide a "better" service to those who are willing to pay a little more.....

The developers know what happens when they fail. They have to make the best decisions for the game. Not many MMO's make it 8 years....... I think they are on the right track.

The biggest "hurt" to this game was the silence and lack of development during the 2+ years that the game was tied up in lawsuits. That's when it lost the most people. Imagine two years with nothing new.......and the Developers so silent that we didn't know they even existed.

I agree that balancing issues have been a problem for a long time now. I still do not see how we can rationalize that it is okay to balance the game but we allow it to be unbalanced thru the store.

As I have stated in other threads, Turbine will run off more players and instead of fixing the

Double logins
Massive bugs (duping)
“Quality of life fixes”
NO ENDGAME
Or a million other reasons

Turbine will just cut their losses and tell players if they do not like it to GTFO. This is fine as it is their game, but when people complain that there is no one to join their LFM (currently happening) and we start seeing more and more cash grabs (because we have to make up for what the people who were run off were paying), you know where to put the blame; the people that rely on P2W as their main source of income.

[G_Lich]

And I remember when 3.0 and 3.5 were out and all the cheep $2 -$5 splat 'books' that were released with PrCs as well.

Your point?

Little hint. You don't have to have everything in game/that is published.

I just don't understand why kids expect things to be literally free... as if it is deserved somehow.

I say kids, because to assume adults would think everything should genuinely be free would be insulting to those adults, since they don't know how commerce works. F2P is just like sitting at the mall in the food court only taking samples every 5 minutes without ever buying lunch. Yes its possible but without $, the samples run out.

[Oxarhamar]

I just don't understand why kids expect things to be literally free... as if it is deserved somehow.

I say kids, because to assume adults would think everything should genuinely be free would be insulting to those adults, since they don't know how commerce works. F2P is just like sitting at the mall in the food court only taking samples every 5 minutes without ever buying lunch. Yes its possible but without $, the samples run out.

But those free samples taste so good.

[CaptainSpacePony]

From the Harper thread; we will be looking to add this as a reward for favor (Harper favor is the most obvious choice here) for Update 24.

Sev~

Excellent. Don't suppose we will see PDK for PDK favor, or Bladeforged for house C favor?

[Certon]

If selling PREs will make them release PREs quicker, I'm all for it. They should sell more PREs, Classes, Leveling options, Item Augments, Cosmetics, AND Pets.

They should be JAMMING new content down our throats. There should be such a GLUT of useful and superficial stuff that we ALWAYS have something we want.

Keep up the good work. You guys are doing it right (at the moment.)

[zwiebelring]

And warforged were considered gimp when they first came out and then they got their full abilities and were considered op then they lost part of that.

Never heard of wf being gimp but I admit I never played one in the early days of DDO. But soon when I returned I noticed the crying about WF arcanes being the non plus ultra and were OP and yaddayadda.....

I am VIP and always have been and will be and I don't think a pre should be free to vio's if it's not free to all classes and races are one thing but a pre is something all can use if they squeeze it in

Don't know what your comment means in context to my post.

I just don't get the entitlement of some people. What exactly is the reason why everybody should have access to all classes and races when it is clear as it can be that DDO turned into a micro transaction based MMO? Is it, because this stuff seems too expensive, is it, because some players confuse this MMO with a old school stand alone game? Or is it, because they just don't want to pay at all and confuse game design with a hobby??? Seriously, if you do not like a product enough to pay, then why bother with it at all? If you like DDO, support it.

The only people, who are exploited by the DDO store are those, who think they *need* everything in there. Like kids in the toy zones of shopping centers/malls, I guess.

[Severlin]

I think alot fewer people would be angry if this was a racial tree and for flavor reasons called something else. I dont think it could take that much more time to do a few palatte swaps of say Elf (making Grey Elves/Sun Elves) or Human palate swaps with glowy eyes (Aasimir)

I think that if this had been a race there would be far less outcry.

We don't want new build options to be tied to a specific cosmetic look. As an example, we don't want players to be in a situation where they like the Purple Dragon Knight tree but don't like the look of the bulked out human, or where they like Morninglord abilities but hate elves. If given the choice we want to keep build choices divorced from cosmetic choices.

Sev~

[B0ltdrag0n]

We don't want new build options to be tied to a specific cosmetic look. As an example, we don't want players to be in a situation where they like the Purple Dragon Knight tree but don't like the look of the bulked out human, or where they like Morninglord abilities but hate elves. If given the choice we want to keep build choices divorced from cosmetic choices.

Sev~

So you dont want to make any future races then? I ask because you're examples above are already true. I like those abilities but hate that they are trapped on level 15+ chassis that have their own rules for reincarnation and looks.

However new races are more than cosmectic choices. Its also a few innate abilities, as well as differing favorted stats on creation such as perhaps a + wisdom race and so on.

[HatsuharuZ]

We don't want new build options to be tied to a specific cosmetic look. As an example, we don't want players to be in a situation where they like the Purple Dragon Knight tree but don't like the look of the bulked out human, or where they like Morninglord abilities but hate elves. If given the choice we want to keep build choices divorced from cosmetic choices.

Sev~

Does this mean we won't get any racial enhancement trees?

[Dagolar]

We don't want new build options to be tied to a specific cosmetic look. As an example, we don't want players to be in a situation where they like the Purple Dragon Knight tree but don't like the look of the bulked out human, or where they like Morninglord abilities but hate elves. If given the choice we want to keep build choices divorced from cosmetic choices.

Sev~

This gives the impression we won't be seeing new races or iconic races in the future.

Given how much many of us have been looking forward to (Core: Kobold, Gnome, Shifter, etc) and (Iconic: Aasimar, Tiefling), that would be unfortunate.

And given that races are an integral part of the game (and basically nearly every western RPG ever), it isn't as if you're introducing something new and awkward.

Now if you just came across overly emphatic, and meant only that the preference was on universally accessible options, that I'd get

Don't leave Kobold hanging, yip

[Ovrad]

As an example, we don't want players to be in a situation where they like the Purple Dragon Knight tree but don't like the look of the bulked out human, or where they like Morninglord abilities but hate elves.

Let's hope this means that iconics are being discontinued. Everyone wants new acutal races, not this cheap cope out. I wish you guys focused more on what the players want instead of working on stuff nobody asked for.

Universally asked for:
- Races
- Classes
- More storage
- Monster Manuals
- New quests/raids

Never asked for by anyone:
- Iconics
- Universal Enhancements trees
- More pay to win/skip items in the store
- The Hall of heroes (seriously, what's the purpose of that place?)