The Meteor Shower: 12Monk/5Wizard/3Rogue Shuriken Insanity

[EllisDee37]

My understanding is that crafted ranged alacrity doesn't apply to throwers.

[Firewall]

My understanding is that crafted ranged alacrity doesn't apply to throwers.

Yes i have tested this in heroic levels way before update 19 when i had a Kensai/Battle Engineer Thrower and an Assassin/Battle Engineer Thrower build and it didn't work at all. I suppose that is why they introduced Whirling Wrists with such a high bonus to thrown attack speed.

Also about Furian's post (which is not on DDO forums for some reason anymore, maybe he was banned?) I think it's largely informative but I think it's also important to have verification by someone else of what he observed.

I can still see it. The link is right here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...re-all-useless but i still think there should be some more testing. His results look strange which might be due to the error with the speed item though i agree all in all there seems to be a limit to attack speed. I think i remember Eladrin posting back then something about additional benefits to attack speed stack in a way that they give diminishing returns like the defensive layers do but i cannot find the post anymore so i don't have accurate info there. Perhaps inverse multiplicatively?

And btw: gratz on a really good build

[jakeelala]

For the last 4 or 5 days I have not been able to view that thread, and neither have a few other people. It's really weird that it's working today.

Anyway, Cannith crafted alacrity is the exact same type as Haste, Pinion, and Speed; Enhancement to Ranged Attack Speed. There's no logical reason it wouldn't work. I've used that trinket pre-level 27 (blinding speed) on many builds and I absolutely notice the difference in attack speed. I'll have to test again on a lowbie but I was sure it was working.

[Firewall]

Pre U19 is quite a while ago so i cannot say if they fixed it in between. I haven't tried it since then. Also i'm not sure if they fixed the bug where Tira's Splendour did not provide the Silver DR breaking to throwing weapons which would be interesting when they introduce the swashbuckler. Tira's Splendour is quite a powerful runearm for its level since you can craft +8 seeker on it and/or lower its minimum level by 2 with cannith crafting.
I remember that i sent bug reports on those bugs back then but never saw anything in the release notes of those being fixed.

The reason it would not work is because it says that it works on ranged weapons which usually don't include throwing weapons.

[Firewall]

I think for the same reason the Gilveanor's ToD set does not work with throwing weapons which psykoosi tested here https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5320702 and i remember seeing another test of this in a thread somewhere. And this is a competence bonus so it should stack.

[jakeelala]

I think for the same reason the Gilveanor's ToD set does not work with throwing weapons which psykoosi tested here https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5320702 and i remember seeing another test of this in a thread somewhere. And this is a competence bonus so it should stack.

Gilvenors works perfectly...if you dont have BaB 28 and other alacrity. Much like Haste Boost at end game. Try it at 18 and you should see it.

[Firewall]

Gilvenors works perfectly...if you dont have BaB 28 and other alacrity. Much like Haste Boost at end game. Try it at 18 and you should see it.

I would but i can't. I never bothered to do the grind to get the set out of ToD. If it really works it would be interesting which attack speed bonus it does not stack with or if it is simply the BAB or the speed cap. I'm not sure if psykoosy had Tenser's and Haste cast on himself when he tested it. Did you try the set at level 18 and found a speed increase?

[jakeelala]

I would but i can't. I never bothered to do the grind to get the set out of ToD. If it really works it would be interesting which attack speed bonus it does not stack with or if it is simply the BAB or the speed cap. I'm not sure if psykoosy had Tenser's and Haste cast on himself when he tested it. Did you try the set at level 18 and found a speed increase?

tested again last night at 18 after TR. Working.

[Firewall]

tested again last night at 18 after TR. Working.

Ok...can you post some numbers? What is the difference in attacks per minute and does it stack with all the speed boosts like Haste and such?

[jakeelala]

Spent 2 hours testing today:

lvl 25 Elf 9 Rogue/6 Monk/5 Wizard
Hero Feats: Rapid Shot and Quickdraw

Test's were completed by counting the number of Thrown Animation SOUNDS for exactly 30 sounds, recording the number of seconds on a stopwatch that it took to make 30 Throwing animation sounds. Number of Seonds were divided by time elapsed (30) to come up with Seconds/Throw (but really Seconds/Animation since you can proc multiple). This is the best way to test that I have discovered for any type of Thrown or Ranged

[whereispowderedsilve]

+1 Mad props for doing that. At times like these I greatly miss Vanshilar(sp?) & MrCow! Sigh

[EllisDee37]

So it looks like you get most everything with full BAB + whirling wrist. Tossing haste (blinding speed?) on top of that can give you a little more oomph, but otherwise there isn't much to do.

I'm wondering about BAB. Monks get their monk level for BAB while centered, meaning a level 28 pure monk will get 20 (monk) + 4 (epic) for a total of 24 BAB. By contrast, a wizard-splashed thrower using tensor's has 28 BAB.

Do I have that right? If so, how significant is the +4 BAB from tensor's, do you think, in terms of throws per minute? (And extrapolating that out, 30 vs 25 when the level cap goes to 30.)

[jakeelala]

My understanding is that crafted ranged alacrity doesn't apply to throwers.

Also I tested this since I was certain I could "feel" 10% difference at low levels with my cannith crafted 10% trinket, and lo and behold, it's almost identical in bonus (statistically insignificant difference) to Gilvenors and Echoes.

Cannith Crafted Ranged 10%

0.933

5.57%

[EllisDee37]

Sweet, that's good to know. So while leveling in heroics I can slap ranged alacrity on a trinket and get something out of it.

[Tesrali]

Thanks jakeelala, been trying out the tenser's build on ghallanda for the past week and it is great. I managed to get my mortal fear a few days ago, and was thinking about the math for calculating its average damage. You would need a recursive function, and the amount of throws it takes to kill a mob on average.

1: (Mob's current hp) - (Average mortal fear damage on one strike) - (All other damage from the weapon) = (Mob's hp at 1st iteration)
-: (Mob's current hp) - (1/20th chance to proc, and does half of the mob's current hp) - (All other damage) = (Mob's hp at 1st iteration)
-: (z₀) - (1/20)*(1/2)*(z₀) - (y) = (z₁)
2: (z₁) - (1/20)*(1/2)*(z₁) - (y) = (z₂)
3: (z₂) - (1/20)*(1/2)*(z₂) - (y) = (z₃)
...
z: (z_(n-1)) - (1/20)*(1/2)*(z_(n-1)) - (y) = (z_n)

Sum up the output of each iteration and then divide by the total number of iterations to get the average damage per throw on a motal fear weapon. Subtract the weapon's non-mortal fear damage to get the damage of the proc itself.

Did the calculation for a buddy using a monkcher...
8000 hit point mob
100 average damage per arrow
-->
Mortal fear is adding 90 damage (on average) per arrow. So a 190% increase in damage. Of course the contribution of the mortal fear weapon is dependent on mob-hp.

But... on a pinned shadovar (or Darobard) we've all seen what happens. Have you considered running shiradi just for nerve venom? With sense weakness this build instakills faster than a 71DC pale master.

[Saekee]

Sweet, that's good to know. So while leveling in heroics I can slap ranged alacrity on a trinket and get something out of it.

You can put it on the offhand weapon too, then? Seeker of Ranged Alacrity? This is good to know for heroics.

[ValariusK]

If you can do a flexible alacrity shard---which is out around 130 elemental canith crafting, you can pop a ranged alacrity shard into almost any slot you can afford a crafted item for.

[EllisDee37]

You can put it on the offhand weapon too, then? Seeker of Ranged Alacrity? This is good to know for heroics.

If you can do a flexible alacrity shard---which is out around 130 elemental canith crafting, you can pop a ranged alacrity shard into almost any slot you can afford a crafted item for.

Both excellent points.

[Blackheartox]

If you can do a flexible alacrity shard---which is out around 130 elemental canith crafting, you can pop a ranged alacrity shard into almost any slot you can afford a crafted item for.

Or you can just use quiver of alatricity til you get blinding speed or haste spam option,
but i dont know if it works with throwers, better option is to buy a huge stack of haste pots and make couple gsteels

[jakeelala]

Or you can just use quiver of alatricity til you get blinding speed or haste spam option,
but i dont know if it works with throwers, better option is to buy a huge stack of haste pots and make couple gsteels

I prefer a constant 5.5% speed boose to a constantly expiring 7% one.

Cannith crafting ftw.

At low levels, that 5% means a lot more when your throw animation is 1 second long.