Solo casting Cleric Enhancement build advice needed!

[Menethenes]

Im looking for build advice for a pure casting Cleric, mostly solo. With the most recent changes, whats the best choice of races for a casting solo build?

From what I can see now for Enhancements:

Dwarven: Lots of hp. Very durable. Axe bonuses better suited to a battle cleric.

Human: Skill/ability boosts up the ying yang!

Elven: Lots of hit bonuses and search stuff. Meh.

Drow: Spell resistance, non-wis stat boosts, combat skills.

The rest of the races Im not interested in.

Right now it would seem Dwarves for durability or Humans for versatility. As far as Class Enhancements, Im assuming Radiant Servant is more for grouping healing builds, and Divine Disciple is more for offensive casting, correct? Any thoughts?

[EllisDee37]

Human is the clear winner, half-elf is second, and all other races are suboptimal. This is because only humans and half-elves get enhancements to boost wisdom.

Human is better than half-elf because humans get an extra feat and an extra skill point per level, both of which clerics are starved for.

The Necro Cleric link in my signature can be a useful starting point for planning out a caster cleric.

[SirValentine]

With the most recent changes, whats the best choice of races for a casting solo build?

Agreed with Ellis, Human seems the clear winner for a caster divine, due to more Wisdom and a bonus feat.

As far as Class Enhancements, Im assuming Radiant Servant is more for grouping healing builds, and Divine Disciple is more for offensive casting, correct? Any thoughts?

Yes, Disciple has a number of good offensive options. Spell power, Crits, Spell Pen, SLAs, +DCs at higher tiers...

I'd take enough Radiant Servant for Positive Energy Burst regardless. Zero-SP-self-healing is great. Divine Healing similarly.

Also, 5 DR from Warpriest is awesome at lower levels and still useful in higher level Heroic quests. And the +HP or +PRR options aren't bad either.

If you're going pure, and want max Wisdom, you put 3 in Human, 41 in one class tree (for capstone), 22 in another (for +2 Wisdom), and 12 in the 3rd (for +1 Wisdom), with 2 left over anywhere. My own Cleric, I have the 3 in Human, 41 in Divine Disciple, 12 in Warpriest, and 22+2=24 in Radiant Servant (using the extra 2 for regenerating turns). Or if you are willing to give up a point or 2 of Wisdom, you can gain a lot of flexibility in your enhancements, too, instead of only 2 points of flexibility.

[EllisDee37]

My build goes with the alternative, which sacrifices a point in wisdom from the third tree to beef up radiant servant. In addition to sacrificing 1 wisdom, I also sacrifice 1 necro DC by taking aura from radiant servant. It's still too iconic in my mind to go without, but it essentially locks you out of EE viability.

The basic concept is exactly as SirValentine describes, though:

41 divine disciple (capstone)
32 radiant servant (aura)
3 human (wisdom)

With 4 points left over to play with.

[axel15810]

If you're going for DC casting, I'd suggest going all out on your WIS. Get it as high as possible. Don't give up any WIS for anything...every DC makes a difference.

[SirValentine]

If you're going for DC casting, I'd suggest going all out on your WIS. Get it as high as possible. Don't give up any WIS for anything...every DC makes a difference.

For high level EEs, absolutely. Every point counts.

If you were mostly going to be running EH, or levels 20-23 EEs, you can safely give up a bit of your DC.

[Menethenes]

Thanks for the replies. I know this stuff has been asked a million times over the years so its nice to see folks still have patience with it. =) As I level up I imagine I will refer to this thread often to help keep me on track.

I do have another question about starting stats. Im having difficulty locking down how much Charisma to begin with. Right now my starting stats look like this:

STR 8
DEX 8
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 18
CHA 14


I would like to be deadly to undead, as that is just so much FUN. But Im not sure really at this point how important CHA is to a casting build, other than Turning power. I assume Turn Undead uses still convert to useful abilities? I see Divine Vitality in the DD tree and Divine Healing and Divine Cleansing in the RS tree, but those are only used on an ally, correct? And thus useless for soloing. Would a few points of CHA be better used in another stat? Or is it just fine to keep it there for a little extra turning oomph?

[axel15810]

Thanks for the replies. I know this stuff has been asked a million times over the years so its nice to see folks still have patience with it. =) As I level up I imagine I will refer to this thread often to help keep me on track.

I do have another question about starting stats. Im having difficulty locking down how much Charisma to begin with. Right now my starting stats look like this:

STR 8
DEX 8
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 18
CHA 14


I would like to be deadly to undead, as that is just so much FUN. But Im not sure really at this point how important CHA is to a casting build, other than Turning power. I assume Turn Undead uses still convert to useful abilities? I see Divine Vitality in the DD tree and Divine Healing and Divine Cleansing in the RS tree, but those are only used on an ally, correct? And thus useless for soloing. Would a few points of CHA be better used in another stat? Or is it just fine to keep it there for a little extra turning oomph?

Your breakout looks fine, although I'd put STR up to 10 and bring INT to 10 to prevent getting burdened or enfeebled although with tomes/slotting STR item may not be a problem.

[axel15810]

For high level EEs, absolutely. Every point counts.

If you were mostly going to be running EH, or levels 20-23 EEs, you can safely give up a bit of your DC.

Still...even on heroic elite or EH I think it's important to have your success rate as high as possible.

[Menethenes]

Your breakout looks fine, although I'd put STR up to 10 and bring INT to 10 to prevent getting burdened or enfeebled although with tomes/slotting STR item may not be a problem.

The thing about INT is that I wanted a few more skill points. Im running up Healing, Spellcraft and Jump for skills, and the Human bonus with 12 Int works perfectly. Im actually being daring with Concentration, not raising it at all, instead planning on relying on Quicken Spell during those times I need to get off a fast heal on myself. Of course, if I mess it up, I can always use a heart of wood to correct stuff later.

Question: are Divine Healing and Divine Cleansing ally only like Divine Vitality, or can you use them on yourself?

[SirValentine]

I see Divine Vitality in the DD tree and Divine Healing and Divine Cleansing in the RS tree, but those are only used on an ally, correct? And thus useless for soloing.

Divine Vitality is other-only, I believe, yes. But Divine Healing definitely works fine on yourself. I have it running on myself almost all the time. :-)

[SirValentine]

The thing about INT is that I wanted a few more skill points.

I'm pretty fond of skills, myself. I started with a 14 Int, then, when I got a a respec as part of an Epic Reincarnation, upped it to 15.

Im actually being daring with Concentration, not raising it at all, instead planning on relying on Quicken Spell during those times I need to get off a fast heal on myself.

You never intend to use scrolls to save SP? You can't Quicken them. And you can save a lot of SP by not having Quicken on when damage is low enough to succeed at Concentration checks. I'd put Concentration above Healing, if I had to dump one of the two, and either of them WAY, WAY above Jump.

[SirValentine]

Still...even on heroic elite or EH I think it's important to have your success rate as high as possible.

It tops out at 95%, as mobs always save on a natural 20, no matter how high the Wisdom or DC numbers on your character sheet. Once you get there, anything more is wasted. That level is reachable in easier content, with good gear, even without absolutely maxxed "full-******" build.

[Menethenes]

I'm pretty fond of skills, myself. I started with a 14 Int, then, when I got a a respec as part of an Epic Reincarnation, upped it to 15.



You never intend to use scrolls to save SP? You can't Quicken them. And you can save a lot of SP by not having Quicken on when damage is low enough to succeed at Concentration checks. I'd put Concentration above Healing, if I had to dump one of the two, and either of them WAY, WAY above Jump.

Thanks, I will keep that in mind. Ive got some time to play around with the skills, and see how things pan out. If later it looks like I made a mistake with concentration, Ill toss it into my eventual respec. As for jumping.... Ive found so far that its much much easier to get around solo dungeons if I can easily get on top of crates and walls. Thats why I try to put as much into jump as posible with all my characters. Its just a personal preference.

[Cardtrick]

Thanks, I will keep that in mind. Ive got some time to play around with the skills, and see how things pan out. If later it looks like I made a mistake with concentration, Ill toss it into my eventual respec. As for jumping.... Ive found so far that its much much easier to get around solo dungeons if I can easily get on top of crates and walls. Thats why I try to put as much into jump as posible with all my characters. Its just a personal preference.

Bear in mind that strength adds to Jump, and there are various clickies and pieces of equipment that can boost your Jump skill directly. You will not jump higher with a Jump score over 40 -- it caps at that level (although more can be useful on stealthy players, since there's a debuff when you're sneaking). If you have skillpoints to spare, it can be worth putting points into Jump -- but it's rarely worth sacrificing any other useful skill for it.

[Wipey]

12 base int on human gives mine :
23 Spellcraft
23 Heal
11 UMD
11 Balance
1 Tumble

But get jump if you don't have Morah's Belt or those boots from DQ epiced.
I have Quicken on all the time except buffs so only missing some skills checks and xp from some quest optionals.
I would want most spells Quickened even when Conc check would be enough anyway.
Depends how zergy ( or wussy ) your game is.
Mass Hjeal, Heal, Destruction, Implosion definitely, have you ever tried Slay Living without Quicken ?

[EllisDee37]

have you ever tried Slay Living without Quicken ?

I use slay living all the time and never quicken it. I do, however, enlarge it. During heroic levels it worked fine without either enlarge or quicken, though it was a touch annoying how frequently mobs move out of range. You get a feel for it, though.

STR 8
DEX 8
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 18
CHA 14

This is close to what I do, except I drop charisma down to 10 and pump strength to 10 and int to 14. Then I can freely max:

23 Concentration
23 Heal
23 Spellcraft
11 UMD
11 Jump
1 Tumble

I put extra skill points from tomes (mine has a +4 int tome) into balance. I'm a little unusual, though, in that I put a very high premium on Jump. Mine has mid-30s jump without any buffs at all. My goal for all characters is 30 jump without any buffs.

Balance I don't care about at all, not even a little, because simply using the ship buff (+5) greater heroism (+4) and epic levels (+8) without any trained ranks at all is usually sufficient to get up immediately.

[EllisDee37]

Im running up Healing, Spellcraft and Jump for skills, and the Human bonus with 12 Int works perfectly.

A 12-int human lets you max four skills. What's your fourth?