Generic Multiclassing Guide

[HAL]

Has anyone written a generic multiclassing guide yet (post U19)? Something like:

If taking any Rogue levels, almost always take Rogue at level 1 to get the most Skill pts.

Take (X Class) at level 2 for 2 feats

etc.

If so, can someone link it for me? If not, do you think this would be a good idea?

[ArcaneArcher52689]

I think it's a great idea, and have started to compile one. God only knows how long it might take though.

[Cardtrick]

I'm not really sure how much you could say, though. So much depends on the specifics of any given build and class combination.

That said, here are some general tips:

1. If multiclassing, always have a plan.

2. It is hard to properly understand the various feat prerequisites before actually building your character. Use of a tool -- specifically, Ron's character planner -- is almost mandatory to avoid problems down the line.

3. If multiclassing and it is possible without screwing up feat progression, take your first level in whichever of your classes yields the most skill points -- e.g., rogue.

4. Decide early on what kind of content you plan to run and make choices based on that. A character build for EE performance will be very different from one built to get to 20 as easily as possible in order to TR.

5. Assume that you'll be getting really powerful gear and choose feats that scale with that gear. Unless it's a prerequisite for something else, Weapon Focus is a terrible feat, because it's only adding a single point to your attack. When your gear and levels are eventually going to be giving you dozens of points worth of attack, this one point will make no difference at all. (Pretty much the same for OTWF, despite its popularity.) On the other hand, a feat like Improved Critical will shine, because it multiplies base damage increases from gear and has an even greater effect when you have epic weapons with improved critical profiles.

6. Toughness is rarely worth taking anymore. This is confusing if you look at old builds, because it used to be nearly essential -- it was required to open up the racial toughness enhancements. But these days, it's not a prerequisite for any enhancements (and the only feat it matters for is quite niche), and there are so many ways to boost your HP that it's not a major draw.

7. Keep in mind BAB requirements for various feats early on. Different classes have different BAB progressions -- check the wiki to see. There are some classes, like fighter, that earn a point of BAB every level. There are others, like rogue, that earn one only three out of four levels. The non-full BAB classes will not earn a point of BAB at level 1. If your feat progression dictates taking something like Improved Critical at level 9 -- which requires BAB 8 -- then you will have to be sure you are choosing class levels in an order to get sufficient BAB by that point.

8. On a melee, go strength-based unless you have a really, really compelling reason not to. Many more abilities, spells, enhancements, and items add to strength than to any other stat. You will usually have an easier time on a high-strength build.

9. On a caster, you have to prioritize. Decide early if you want to use DC-based spells. If you do, then sacrifice almost everything else to maximize your DC. That means taking spell focus feats, keeping your casting stat maxed, using enhancements and epic destiny points on stat raises rather than other (more fun) things. It all matters. One point of DC is a lot.

If not going all out for DCs, then you probably want to focus on your spell DPS. This means improving your critical chance and spellpower.

10. Metamagics are really useful if you have SLAs and plan to use them. They are somewhat less useful if you do not, but usually still worth taking. You should review your spell list and SLAs to find which are affected by which SLAs. If dumping DCs, you can probably skip Heighten. If you don't have SLAs (e.g., a favored soul), you can probably skip Empower.

Anyone with self healing should try to get Quicken. It makes a real difference. This even includes melee characters who intend to twist Cocoon in epics. It is worth considering a splash of a casting class to pick up Empower Heal and Quicken.

11. If trying to modify a build on the forum, try your best to understand what the build's author is going for. Be aware that you may need to adjust initial build points or level ups in order to hit feat prerequisites if you have a different set of tomes than the build author.

12. Feel free to post a work in progress build and ask for help. If you do so, it is best to be explicit about what your goals for the character are.

[unbongwah]

You should probably just update the wiki's page on multiclassing. Why reinvent the wheel?

[HAL]

Cardtrick: those are some good general principles but I was also looking for more specifics. unbongwah: that wiki page doesn't really contain the kind of information I was looking for.

For instance, I know that many classes have autogrants at certain levels. I can look up each class individually to see what those are, but if I'm creating a multiclass character it would be nice if the "big perks" of each class were gathered together in one place to compare the pros and cons of taking 11 levels vs 8. I was thinking of making a table with the class at the top and 20 level rows. In row 1 under Rogue I would say "largest number of skill points" or something like that as a reason to take Rogue at level 1. Under Wizard I would show what level Wall of Fire was available. Under Ranger I would show which levels you get the autogrant feats. Etc.

[EllisDee37]

I think I see what you mean. Using paladin as a proof of concept, something like this?

Paladin 2
- Divine Grace (charisma modifier added to saves)
- Divine Might (cha mod added to strength; requires turn undead from another source)
- Lay on Hands (scales with paladin level)

Paladin 3
- Immunity to disease
- Immunity to fear

Paladin 4
- Turn undead
- Cure light wounds

Paladin 6
- Sacred Defender stance (bonus to saves and PRR)
- Unyielding Sovereignty

Paladin 8
- Native proficiency with raise dead scrolls

Paladin 11
- Cure moderate wounds

Paladin 14
- Zeal (+10% doublestrike)

Paladin 15
- Cure Serious Wounds


EDIT: I was rather surprised the other day when I noticed that paladins now get native use of raise and resurrection scrolls thanks to their sacred defender core abilities. It kind of makes those core abilities pointless, but is great for kotc paladins for sure. (I wonder if this same logic gives them native use of greater restoration scrolls? hmmm...)

[unbongwah]

EDIT: I was rather surprised the other day when I noticed that paladins now get native use of raise and resurrection scrolls thanks to their sacred defender core abilities. It kind of makes those core abilities pointless, but is great for kotc paladins for sure. (I wonder if this same logic gives them native use of greater restoration scrolls? hmmm...)

If you look at the scroll descriptions for Raise Dead, Resurrection, and True Rez, they now list paladins as native casters (i.e., "No UMD check for"); but pallies aren't listed on Gtr Restoration scrolls. Presumably it's because Sacred D. grants the rezzes as spells, but KotC Imp Restoration is an enhancement to pally's Remove Disease ability, not a spell.

[HAL]

I think I see what you mean. Using paladin as a proof of concept, something like this?

Yep. I figure if you had a table with this info, it might make it easier to plan multiclass builds. At least for me I think I'll make the table and post for input. Then I'll see about adding to the wiki.

[unbongwah]

For instance, I know that many classes have autogrants at certain levels. I can look up each class individually to see what those are, but if I'm creating a multiclass character it would be nice if the "big perks" of each class were gathered together in one place to compare the pros and cons of taking 11 levels vs 8. I was thinking of making a table with the class at the top and 20 level rows. In row 1 under Rogue I would say "largest number of skill points" or something like that as a reason to take Rogue at level 1. Under Wizard I would show what level Wall of Fire was available. Under Ranger I would show which levels you get the autogrant feats. Etc.

I have a feeling that would be a really unwieldy table, since you're basically trying to condense all of the individual class wiki pages plus add annotations about, e.g., key spells etc. But good luck with that if you try to put it together yourself!

[TPICKRELL]

I have a spreadsheet lookup table that I use for to gauge opportunity costs for swapping class levels in a multiclass split. I only populated to level 12 since that's the highest I've ever used for a true multiclass build. But here's the lookup table if you want to use it as a start for anything:

Arty 1	Spells 4/, Rapid Reload, Trap finding, Scrolls +1
Arty 2	Spells 5/, Rune Arm, Pots +1
Arty 3	Spells 5/3, Wands +1
Arty 4	Spells 5/4, Trapmaking, Feat, Scrolls +1
Arty 5	Retain Essence, Arms and Armor +1, Pots +2
Arty 6	Spells 5/4/3, Wands +2
Arty 7	Spells 5/4/4, Wondrous +1, Scrolls +3
Arty 8	Spells 5/5/4, Feat, Pots +3, Arms and Armour +2
Arty 9	Spells 5/5/4/3, Wands +3
Arty 10	Spells 5/5/4/4, Scrolls +4, Wondrous +2
Arty 11	Spells 6/5/5/4, Pots +4, Wondrous +3
Arty 12	Spells 6/5/5/4/1, Feat, Wands +4
Barb 1	Fast Movement, Rage
Barb 2	DR 1
Barb 3	Trap Sense +1
Barb 4	Rage, Uncanny Dodge
Barb 5	DR 2, Improved Uncanny Dodge
Barb 6	Trap Sense +2
Barb 7	-
Barb 8	Rage, DR3, Improved Uncanny Dodge
Barb 9	Trap Sense +3
Barb 10	-
Barb 11	DR 4, Greater Rage
Barb 12	-
Bard 1	Spells 1/, Fascinate, Inspire Courage
Bard 2	Spells 2/
Bard 3	Spells 3/, Inspire Competence
Bard 4	Spells 3/2
Bard 5	Spells 4/3
Bard 6	Suggestion
Bard 7	Spells 4/4/2
Bard 8	Spells 4/4/3, Inspire Courage
Bard 9	Inspire Greatness
Bard 10	Spells 4/4/4/2
Bard 11	Spells 4/4/4/3
Bard 12	Song of Freedom
Cleric 1	Spells 3/,Turn Undead
Cleric 2	Spells 4/
Cleric 3	Spells 4/3
Cleric 4	Spells 5/4
Cleric 5	Spells 5/4/3
Cleric 6	Spells 5/5/4, Deity Feat
Cleric 7	Spells 6/5/4/3
Cleric 8	Spells 6/5/5/4
Cleric 9	Spells 6/6/5/4/3
Cleric 10	Spells 6/6/5/5/4
Cleric 11	Spells 6/6/6/5/4/3
Cleric 12	Spells 6/6/6/5/5/4
Druid 1	Spells 23, Wolf, Druicid Oath, Wild Empathy
Druid 2	Spells 4/, Goodberry,Wild Shape
Druid 3	Spells 4/3
Druid 4	Spells 5/4
Druid 5	Spells 5/4/3, Wild Shape
Druid 6	Spells 5/5/4
Druid 7	Spells 6/5/4/3, Improved Wild Empathy
Druid 8	Spells 6/5/5/4, Wild Shape
Druid 9	Spells 6/6/5/4/3, Venom Immunity
Druid 10	Spells 6/6/5/5/4
Druid 11	Spells 6/6/6/5/4/3, Wild Shape
Druid 12	Spells 6/6/6/5/5/4
Fighter 1	Feat
Fighter 2	Feat
Fighter 3	-
Fighter 4	Feat
Fighter 5	-
Fighter 6	Feat
Fighter 7	-
Fighter 8	Feat
Fighter 9	-
Fighter 10	Feat
Fighter 11	-
Fighter 12	Feat
FVS 1	Spells 2/, Faith
FVS 2	Spells 3/
FVS 3	Spells 4/, Child of Faith
FVS 4	Spells 4/1
FVS 5	Spells 4/2, Energy Resist
FVS 6	Spells 4/2/1, Deity Feat
FVS 7	Spells 4/3/2
FVS 8	Spells 4/3/2/1
FVS 9	Spells 4/4/3/2
FVS 10	Spells 4/4/3/2/1, Energy Resist
FVS 11	Spells 4/4/4/3/2
FVS 12	Spells 4/4/4/3/2/1, Beloved of Faith
Monk 1	Unarmed Stuff, Feat
Monk 2	Evasion, Meditation, AC, Feat
Monk 3	Fast Movement, Fists of Light
Monk 4	Slow Fall, Unarmed Strike
Monk 5	AC, Purity, Feat
Monk 6	Adept of Forms, Feat, Fast Movement, Slow Fall
Monk 7	Wholeness of Body
Monk 8	Slow Fall, Unarmed Strike
Monk 9	Improved Evasion
Monk 10	AC, Lawful, Slow Fall
Monk 11	Diamond Body
Monk 12	Abundant, Fast Movement, Slow Fall, Unarmed Strike
Paladin 1	Aura Good, Smite Evil,
Paladin 2	Divine Grace, Lay on Hands
Paladin 3	Aura Courage, Divine Health, Feath Immunity
Paladin 4	Spells 1/,Turn Undead
Paladin 5	Smite Evil
Paladin 6	Sp 2/, Remove Disease, Deity Feat
Paladin 7	-
Paladin 8	Spells 2/1
Paladin 9	Remove Disease
Paladin 10	Spells 2/2/, Smite Evil
Paladin 11	Spells 2/2/1
Paladin 12	Spells 2/2/2, Remove Disease
Ranger 1	Fav Enemy, Wild Empathy, Bow Str
Ranger 2	Rapid Shot, TWF
Ranger 3	Diehard
Ranger 4	Spells 1/, Precise Shot
Ranger 5	Fav Enemy
Ranger 6	Spells 2/, Manyshot, ITWF
Ranger 7	Improved Wild Empathy
Ranger 8	Spells 2/1
Ranger 9	Evasion
Ranger 10	Spells 2/2, Fav Enemy
Ranger 11	Spells 2/2/1, Improved Precise Shot, GTWF
Ranger 12	Spells 2/2/2
Rogue 1	Sneak 1D6, Trap Finding
Rogue 2	Evasion
Rogue 3	Sneak 1D6, Trap Sense +1
Rogue 4	Trap Making, Uncanny Dodge
Rogue 5	Sneak +1d6
Rogue 6	Trap Sense +2
Rogue 7	Sneak 1d6
Rogue 8	Improved Uncanny Dodge
Rogue 9	Sneak +1d6, Trap Sense +3
Rogue 10	Special (improved evasion, opportunist)
Rogue 11	Sneak +1d6
Rogue 12	Trap Sense +4
Sorc 1	Spells 2/
Sorc 2	Spells 3/
Sorc 3	Spells 4/
Sorc 4	Spells 4/1
Sorc 5	Spells 4/2
Sorc 6	Spells 4/2/1
Sorc 7	Spells 4/3/2
Sorc 8	Spells 4/3/2/1
Sorc 9	Spells 4/4/3/2
Sorc 10	Spells 4/4/3/2/1
Sorc 11	Spells 4/4/4/3/2
Sorc 12	Spells 4/4/4/3/2/1
Wiz 1	2, Feat
Wiz 2	Spells 4/
Wiz 3	Spells 4/2
Wiz 4	Spells 4/3
Wiz 5	Spells 4/3/2, Feat
Wiz 6	Spells 4/4/3
Wiz 7	Spells 5/4/3/2
Wiz 8	Spells 5/4/4/3
Wiz 9	Spells 5/5/4/3/2
Wiz 10	Spells 5/5/4/4/3, Feat
Wiz 11	Spells 5/5/5/4/3/2
Wiz 12	Spells 5/5/5/4/4/3

[avepepix]

I was working, when I play pnp, in a excell to create an auto character sheet.

It works fine for the 2 first classes, but when i inserted the option of a free 3 and 4th classes i make I mistake. Now the project its semi abandoned due to lack of time.
If some one want to take a look, just givme an email and I sent it.

But be aware of this.
1 Its in spanish
2 I dont started the feats, but i can try to add the class of DDO

[ArcaneArcher52689]

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...guide(attempt)


Started something here, let's see if I can actually make it.

[Frogger1234]

I have a spreadsheet lookup table that I use for to gauge opportunity costs for swapping class levels in a multiclass split. I only populated to level 12 since that's the highest I've ever used for a true multiclass build. But here's the lookup table if you want to use it as a start for anything (note the order is a bit wonky because its used for an excel lookup function which requires alphabetical sorting):

If you list the single digit levels as "0X " instead of "X" - as in Cleric 01 - an alpha sort would put things in the proper order.

[TPICKRELL]

If you list the single digit levels as "0X " instead of "X" - as in Cleric 01 - an alpha sort would put things in the proper order.

Yeah. But this is meant to be used in excel, with lookup functions, so the lookup order doesn't matter. Adding 0s means that the lookup functions that extract data all have to have embedded format functions added so that they generate the leading zeros, which is a fair amount of added complexity for no gain for what its used for.

EDIT: If people will use this, I can reorder the table in the post to a logical order, just didnt bother until there is some indication that it won't be a waste of time.

EDIT 2: I went ahead and built an extract page with all the entries in logical order and replaced the chart. If it would be useful to others, let me know and I'll extend the chart for levels 13-20.