Elite has become the default difficulty: an observation, not a complaint

[Sebastrd]

The efforts to increase elite rewards over the past few years have had an interesting result, namely that elite has become the default difficulty.

Bravery/Streak bonuses
Because of these bonuses, the loss in XP by running even a single quest on non-elite difficulty is astronomical. Consider that the loss of XP affects not only that quest, but the next five as well while the streak is rebuilt. The result is that nobody runs norm or hard outside of epics. New players' (if there are any anymore) only opportunity to run with vets is to jump straight into elite, a difficulty for which they are likely unprepared.

Loot
Thanks to the above bonuses, there might as well not even be norm/hard versions of heroic named loot. In epics, the existence of EE loot makes elite the default difficulty for all but a handful of quests. Outside of farming for named loot that doesn't have an EE version (i.e., anything from the CitW chain), farming XP for off destinies, and certain raids, running anything but elite is inefficient. The unbalanced drop rate for Commendations of Valor only exacerbates the situation. NOTE: depending on the loot and planned augments, the EH version may be preferable for the lower minimum level. Still, it's kind of akin to having the white bordered version of a M:tG card.

With the current state of difficulty levels, casual, normal, and hard might as well be renamed Casual 1, 2, and 3; because that's how they are viewed. Only the shear difficulty of epic elites keeps normal and hard relevant in epic levels, and I don't think that will last past the end of this year. I think you'll see EE LFMs increasing to the point that normal and hard will disappear from epics, as well.

[Cardtrick]

Definitely true for most of us who post regularly on the forums. From what I've seen in game, it doesn't seem to be true for everyone there.

Thanks to the above bonuses, there might as well not even be norm/hard versions of heroic named loot.

This I disagree with.

Thanks to the . . . well, strange . . . decision to have heroic elite loot have a higher min level than heroic hard or normal loot, and thanks to the fact that (for a lot of us) this loot is only useful for TR purposes, the heroic hard or heroic normal version is often a better choice since it can be used earlier.

If I'm going to run a quest for loot that has the normal/hard/elite named loot differences, I'll look at the wiki and decide which version I prefer, and then run the quest at that level (after my obligatory first elite run, of course).

E.g., if I decided to get a heroic Shadowsight for a future clonk or monkcher life, I'd take a look at the wiki and see that both the heroic hard and the heroic elite versions have Wis + 7, ethereal, and a yellow augment slot. The only difference is that the heroic elite version (ML 16) has Accuracy VIII while the heroic hard version (ML 15) has Accuracy VI. Since I'm unlikely ever to care about 2 points of Accuracy, I'd much rather get the ML 15 version and be able to enjoy +7 Wis while running all of elite heroic Gianthold, so I would do my farming of Mirror on Hard. (In fact, this is precisely what I did last night, and I got the goggles on my first Hard run . . . so partly this whole post is just to brag about that, because I normally have terrible loot luck.)

[blerkington]

Hi,

The best idea I've heard for addressing the issue of mainly elite lfms problem was to change how your streak is affected if you run a quest on hard or normal. The idea was that your streak is decremented by one, not wiped out.

I'd go a step further and suggest that it just be suspended, not affected at all, if the current quest you're doing doesn't meet the requirements to maintain your streak. If you happen to qualify for a hard bonus you get that instead, otherwise just the regular xp reward for doing the quest.

The other thing contributing mainly elite lfms are social obstacles. In particular, the reluctance a new player might have to post an lfm when s/he doesn't know the quest well. That one is a little harder to solve, but there must be some way to encourage people to do that. Maybe some form of leadership xp bonus for first life characters, available in the heroic levels only.

Thanks.

[Antheal]

How about an option to toggle a checkbox that will allow your character to suspend ALL exp for that one streak-breaking quest if you choose to run it?

That way you can run a non-elite quest without breaking your streak for the cost of missing out on exp for that one quest.

So then you can help out friends, guildmates, and so on.

[droid327]

Hi,

The best idea I've heard for addressing the issue of mainly elite lfms problem was to change how your streak is affected if you run a quest on hard or normal. The idea was that your streak is decremented by one, not wiped out.

Yeah, this is what needs to happen with BBs...the penalty is just SO EXTREME for breaking even one, it completely hamstrings your options for social playing, and for soloing too: if a quest isn't completeable solo on Elite at-level, then its dead to you, and its never good for the game when game design gates off content that would otherwise be enjoyed.

There needs to be some "forgiveness" mechanic in BB....like every broken streak decrements your total streak by 5; ie, if you've completed 37 in a row, and then break it, you drop down to 32. That way, every 5th quest you complete on BB beyond the initial five to build your BB earns you one "mulligan", which should be enough to keep your streak going in good faith through Heroic.

[Noctus]

... In epics, ... elite the default difficulty...

Nope.

Only in Heroics. In Elite its EH.

[Icywave]

Nope.

Only in Heroics. In Elite its EH.

My observation as well. Same for most raids. EE not being worth it whatsoever ( raids ).

[Teh_Troll]

Nope.

Only in Heroics. In Epic its EH.

Not on my server.

Raids though yeah, EH most of the time.

[maddmatt70]

The efforts to increase elite rewards over the past few years have had an interesting result, namely that elite has become the default difficulty.

Bravery/Streak bonuses
Because of these bonuses, the loss in XP by running even a single quest on non-elite difficulty is astronomical. Consider that the loss of XP affects not only that quest, but the next five as well while the streak is rebuilt. The result is that nobody runs norm or hard outside of epics. New players' (if there are any anymore) only opportunity to run with vets is to jump straight into elite, a difficulty for which they are likely unprepared.

Loot
Thanks to the above bonuses, there might as well not even be norm/hard versions of heroic named loot. In epics, the existence of EE loot makes elite the default difficulty for all but a handful of quests. Outside of farming for named loot that doesn't have an EE version (i.e., anything from the CitW chain), farming XP for off destinies, and certain raids, running anything but elite is inefficient. The unbalanced drop rate for Commendations of Valor only exacerbates the situation. NOTE: depending on the loot and planned augments, the EH version may be preferable for the lower minimum level. Still, it's kind of akin to having the white bordered version of a M:tG card.

With the current state of difficulty levels, casual, normal, and hard might as well be renamed Casual 1, 2, and 3; because that's how they are viewed. Only the shear difficulty of epic elites keeps normal and hard relevant in epic levels, and I don't think that will last past the end of this year. I think you'll see EE LFMs increasing to the point that normal and hard will disappear from epics, as well.

Most LFMs I see are for Epic Hard so I do not agree with your analysis whatsover.

[Sebastrd]

Most LFMs I see are for Epic Hard so I do not agree with your analysis whatsover.

Like I said, we'll see if that holds by the end of this year.

[8rad]

As a new player still working on my first life I agree completely that the bravery streak mechanic is hurting group play.

I have seen on multiple occasions people join a group only to be asked to leave because they will break streaks.

The other thing contributing mainly elite lfms are social obstacles. In particular, the reluctance a new player might have to post an lfm when s/he doesn't know the quest well. That one is a little harder to solve, but there must be some way to encourage people to do that. Maybe some form of leadership xp bonus for first life characters, available in the heroic levels only.

Thanks.

This is very true. I find I am in this exact situation. Its pointless to throw up an LFM if you are doing a quest on normal. No one will join if it will break their streaks. Alternatively if its at level HE I am leading a quest with a bunch of veterans and have no clue what I am doing. Having done most quests one time, three times at most.

So I struggle on soloing HE because I have convinced myself I have to to maximize xp. Which of course is nuts but its funny how the brain works.

[General_Gronker]

The result is that nobody runs norm or hard outside of epics.

That's simply not true. I see and run in Heroic Hard all the time after about level 15. Almost all epics I see are eHard.

[EllisDee37]

Yeah, this is what needs to happen with BBs...the penalty is just SO EXTREME for breaking even one, it completely hamstrings your options for social playing, and for soloing too: if a quest isn't completeable solo on Elite at-level, then its dead to you, and its never good for the game when game design gates off content that would otherwise be enjoyed.

There needs to be some "forgiveness" mechanic in BB....like every broken streak decrements your total streak by 5; ie, if you've completed 37 in a row, and then break it, you drop down to 32. That way, every 5th quest you complete on BB beyond the initial five to build your BB earns you one "mulligan", which should be enough to keep your streak going in good faith through Heroic.

My suggestion from way back was two-fold:

1) Decrement streaks instead of breaking them
2) Cap streaks at 5

Part of the psychological barrier against breaking streaks is that it feels like a very big loss if you break a 100+ streak back down to 0. However, if after running 100 elite quests in row, you have only a 5 streak and "breaking" it would decrement that down to 4, the psychological barrier is essentially gone.

[Desonde]

How about an option to toggle a checkbox that will allow your character to suspend ALL exp for that one streak-breaking quest if you choose to run it?

That way you can run a non-elite quest without breaking your streak for the cost of missing out on exp for that one quest.

So then you can help out friends, guildmates, and so on.

This will help with running Raids as well where you can't over level to the point of breaking the range for the quest.

[Franke]

As a new player still working on my first life I agree completely that the bravery streak mechanic is hurting group play.

Its pointless to throw up an LFM if you are doing a quest on normal. No one will join if it will break their streaks. Alternatively if its at level HE I am leading a quest with a bunch of veterans and have no clue what I am doing.

So I struggle on soloing HE because I have convinced myself I have to to maximize xp. Which of course is nuts but its funny how the brain works.

The whole mechanic is a barrier for new players and established players to group together. I wouldn't at all be surprised to find that after hitting lfms early in their ddo participation, most will have very negative encounters with established players. Many newer players struggle with the complexity of the game, and have very little social interaction whereby they're enlightened by more experienced players.

I recall quickly encountering those who were willing to help and show me the ropes when I started playing, in all honesty the same is not true today.

[unbongwah]

I recall quickly encountering those who were willing to help and show me the ropes when I started playing, in all honesty the same is not true today.

While I don't really mind Bravery Bonus - because, hey, that's how risk / reward systems are supposed to work - one advantage to the old NHHHE pattern (or whatever it was) is you could take on newbies, show them how the quest works on the first normal run, and get them up to speed on subsequent runs. Ideally by the time you did the final elite run, they knew what to expect & how to react. Now, though, no vet is gonna want to break their streak just to show the newbies how it's done; and most newbies will find trying to learn new quests on elite very frustrating.

A simple solution would be to allow the party leader to temporarily suspend Bravery Bonus; in effect, tripping the overlevel bit so you don't lose your streak. This would hopefully encourage more "teaching" runs of quests.

[Qhualor]

My suggestion from way back was two-fold:

1) Decrement streaks instead of breaking them
2) Cap streaks at 5

I remember seeing this suggestion thrown around awhile back. It actually is the best solution to BB and opening more grouping choices for everyone. One good example would be In The Flesh. Most groups won't attempt it on elite or they will get a player 1 level over to not break BB. This solution would get more groups to run the quest instead of skipping over it or going back over level for the favor/end reward.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Unlike most players, I could care less about breaking a streak; but I still prefer to run most heroic quests on elite.

Simply because I like the favor, and I level up so quickly that I know I will probably not rerun the quest later.



Add to this that vets really belong in elite anyway.




....and I do see some players points about streaks..... after level 15ish.
Not that it really gets that difficult to level up after 15, but you see that level 20 goal so close that it "feels" like you are taking a long time to get to it.....

And of course, every level closer does take more and more xp to complete... really makes is feel like it is taking along time.




Epics are different.
Well... they were anyway. But now we have epic TRs.
And leveling up in epics takes a very long time.

I can understand some people really wanting their streaks.


But if you are TR/ER ing.... I feel you belong in elite anyway.




But I do think people should relax a little and not worry about breaking a streak.

I would like to see more new guy's LFMs get filled up quickly.






On the other hand....... elite, is not the default for raids. Which upsets me immensely as well.
I want the favor. And for most raids, we are way above the level of the raid. Plus supposedly we have better loot drops on elite.

I wish people would "man up" for raids.

[Teh_Troll]

I will take full credit for elite now being the default difficulty. You mammals will do whatever you think you need to to keep up with us higher life-forms.

it's okay, I'll carry you through it.

[Kasiddy]

First Time Elite Completion Bonus: +80% of base xp
First Time in the quest and completing on Elite: +20% of base xp
Elite Streak: +50% of base xp

Just get rid of the stupid hard/elite streak and combine those last two to get a bonus of +70% for an elite completion your first time in a quest. XP for elite will be the same and you can freely go to hard/normal for something if you want then come right back to your "regular" xp for elite completions. So you get

First Time Elite Completion Bonus: +80% of base xp
First Time in the quest and completing on Elite: +70% of base xp

You could make a similar little bonus for hard if you wanted. Improves grouping options for those willing/wanting to group with players not quite ready for elite (ie newbies/casuals) or willing/wanting to run quests under/over level at a difficulty other than elite, and doesn't "penalize" anyone who doesn't want to run anything less than elite.