Player Character Balance

[Turbosilk]

I am not in favor of finely tuned balanced classes. Reasonable balance is enough, even if some end up somewhat more stronger than others. You need some limited imbalance because there are all kinds of different players. Some players are not content unless they smack around bosses with their FOTM builds with uber powerful feats, enhancements, and their Keen Vorpal Blade Cuisinart of instant destruction whereas another player will be more satisfied defeating the same boss naked and armed with only a wet noodle and their wits. Tying to satisfied all is road to mediocre game play.

+1

[Turbosilk]

As a general statement please take this seriously - Great players with great gear are going to be great with thoughtful class builds and ED configs. Poor and average players are going to be just that regardless of builds and gear. Poor and average players just think that any class/ED/etc that a great player is using is OP and should be nerfed. Heavily weight the opinions accordingly and as devs you should be able to simulate character balance according to survivability, dps, healing, etc. Don't let perceptions be defined as the reality.

[Drevok]

I think a few simple tweaks can adjust much of the issues. Here a few of my favorite suggestions that have been oft mentioned.
- For some, just make the cool-down timer somewhat longer.
- MS cool-down timer also affects 1K star.
- Bard add level 5 or 6 sonic dot spell (similar or possibly slightly weaker than niacs) or some other means to affect red-names, etc.
- Some very light splashes give way too much. Perhaps require higher level if have multiple selection? For example fighter haste 10% requires level 1 fighter, 20% requires level 2 fighter, 30% requires level 3.
- Monks with non monk weapons should require a larger investment and/or more levels.

Another comment: I don't like having to do destinies that have no use for my character... Suggestion to significantly reduce the impact is to have option to split between two destinies. As maximum 6 tiers, two example is destiny 1: max 1 tier accessible and 1/6 XP, destiny 2: max 5 tier accessible with 5/6 XP. Another example is 2 destinies each with 1/2 XP and each with up to max tier 3 accessible. Fatespinner can adjust ratio (so all in one destiny, 1/6 and 5/6, 2/6 and 4/6 and 3/6 both).

[Turbosilk]

I don't mind that a specific build is the highest DPS, I do mind that its the highest DPS by 50% to 100% increase to the next build.

Great statement in general but how do you back it up with actual data? If people perceive something is doing 50 to 100% more dps than the next build but in reality it is 5% more should perception cause a nerf?

[FranOhmsford]

This Survey is beyond a Joke!

1. You're asking us to rate Playstyles on a 1-5 Scale and only give us 3 Playstyles to rate - Melee, Ranged {incl. Throwing Weapons!!! Seriously???} and Spellcasting!

a) Melee incl. Barbarians, Fighters, Paladins, Rogues, Monks, Wolf form Druids, A large number of Clerics and Tempest Rangers.

b) Ranged incl. Arcane Archers {incl Monkchers!}, Artificers, Arti/Rogue Mechs and Halflings with throwing Daggers!

c) Spellcasting - The Spellcasting capabilities of a Pale Master vs those of a Caster specced Cleric just aren't in the same Ballpark for crying out loud!

Any rating is automatically a complete waste of time!

2. You ignore Multiclassing!
I've given Monks a 5 on your 1-5 Power Scale yet I'd give Pure Monks a 3 at most!
The 5 comes from the Power jump when splashing monk onto OTHER classes!!

3. Worst of all you seem to be under the impression that such a weak and pitiful survey will give you the answers you need!
Answers you should already be well aware of btw!

Look:

Rogues, Clerics, Paladins, Barbarians, Druids and Tempest Rangers are currently underpowered!

-Rogues have been pigeon-holed thanks to the enhancement revamp into specific builds and weapons - They've also had a Nerf to the available Trap Scores from Enhancements {Artis have been hit hard by this too!}.

- Clerics - You seem to be under the mistaken impression that these are OP and insist on keeping them down at every opportunity!

- Paladins - You only need to look at the truly ridiculous requirement of 83 AP to max out Sacred Defender {Not even Possible!} and the squeezing together of HotD & KotC which keeps both at much lower power levels than Kensai for example!

-Barbarians - Putting separate Rage Enhancements in all 3 trees and therefore making it unviable to go all in on a single tree and killing the Racial Trees for said Class!

-Druids - BEAR FORM!!!

-Tempest - Still basically requires Multiclassing - Why won't you let Rangers go Pure?

Pale Masters & Sorcs {Esp WF} are ridiculously OP when compared to Fleshy Archmages and Sorcs {As some people are quick to point out this is a Heroic and early epic issue NOT an End-Game issue!
Archmage needs a serious boost to bring it on par with PM or WF and Making us take Zombie Form is NOT going to do it!
AM and PM should really be mutually exclusive Trees as allowing AM Benefits on a PM is also quite a buff to said PM. Which makes AM an even weaker choice!

The power of the Monk Splash is off the scale!
Pure Monk isn't as OP as people have been making out and has blindsided you away from the Monk Splash!

Monkcher especially is an issue atm.

Bards when played by those who know how to play them are Supreme and really don't need buffing!
However they're also NOT in any need of a Nerf!

Pure Artificers are fantastic up to around Lvl 13-15 then are overtaken by pretty much every other class! {The Juggernaut build cannot be used as a stick to beat Artis with!}.
Way too front loaded BUT any Nerf at Low Levels would be a bad idea - Artis really need buffing at higher levels!



Finally to Favored Souls - As everyone here knows I have an antipathy towards this class however I'll try to stay objective:

1. The Enhancement Pass was a MASSIVE Nerf to FavSouls! {Objective enough for y'all?}

2. Warforged FvS has become much less popular since but is to my mind still the best build for said class - Greatsword Melee and Self Healing is Pretty Safe!
FvS are also in no way expected to Heal by anyone anymore as Clerics and Druids are both far better at this and if you have a FvS and a Bard in your Raid you'd probably be better off asking the Bard if he/she was OK with being Main Healer!

3. The Caster FvS seems to have fallen by the wayside {probably because of a lack of DC and Spell Pen Boosts for Elite content}.

4. Exalted Angel and Unyielding Sentinel are far too focused for a Jack of all trades Class!



Oh I forgot Fighter didn't I - Well this brings me to my final point and the biggest issue in Class Balance in DDO:

Feats

Clerics, FavSouls, Sorcs, Bards, Barbarians, Paladins - These classes are all in desperate need of more Feats!

Nimble Fingers and Skill Focus Disable Device should NOT be laughed at as Rogue or Arti Feats! {Skill Focus Search on the other hand has become almost mandatory thanks to the recent DC Boosts to that requirement!}.

The Absolute Last thing you should do is to Nerf Fighter, Arti, Monk or Wizard - Wizards in fact could maybe do with a slight buff to # of feats!
However:
Everyone else needs Boosting! {Not sure on Druids tbh as I've never counted their feat slots}

And No I don't count feats taken in Epic Levels as a Boost - I still only count up to Lvl 20 when talking about Heroic Feats!


It might help if you merged some feats rather than giving out extra slots though - For example:

Skill Focus Open Lock/Skill Focus Disable Device/Nimble Fingers = ONE Feat for +5 to Open Locks and Disable Device!

Spell Penetration and Spell Focus

Empower and Empower Healing

Improved Turning and Extra Turning


And it would definitely help if Paladins got a few Free Feats at high enough levels so that they don't become an Insta-Splash class - For Example:

Tower Shield Proficiency - Lvl 1
Exotic Wpn Prof: Bastard Sword - Lvl 3
Shield Mastery - Lvl 5
Combat Expertise - Lvl 7
Improved Trip - Lvl 10
Improved Shield Mastery - Lvl 13
Improved Sunder - Lvl 16

Tower Shield and Bastard Sword Profs btw are an absolute must and I really can't see why they weren't given to Paladins back in 2006?

OR

Give us our Horses back!!!!!

[Turbosilk]

No its not the same.

People that don't post on the forum don't want their opinion to be listened to.
Otherwise, they would speak up.
They're silent, so they don't care.

Using that logic means those who whine and post the most should have their whining addressed. Not logical. Mob rule is mob rule. Best to let the smart people make smart decisions based on facts and disseminate to the mobs.

[Veriden]

No its not the same.

People that don't post on the forum don't want their opinion to be listened to.
Otherwise, they would speak up.
They're silent, so they don't care.

Or they merely want to avoid drama and harassment from trolls and a-holes much like yourself.

[MrWindupBird]

Please don't weight the survey results in your analysis. I started filling it out, then quickly gave up and closed it. There's no way to convey useful information in that response. Can't be done.

The issue isn't really class X is powerful, class Y is weak. It's that certain ED abilities/classes/enhancements synergize incredibly well. It's a more complex interaction. IE, as ftdOmen noted above, unarmed monks (especially pure) are pretty weak, but AAs, Shiradi arcanes, and Kensei with monk splashes (12, 2, or 6) are extremely strong. Is that because monk is a strong class? Not by itself it isn't, it's because it fills gaps in those cases and synergizes perfectly. Likewise, Fury is a great ED on an AA and ok on melee, but it's not overpowered at all, except for the fact that it synergizes incredibly well with manyshot. Outside of that, it's a fair power level.

Context matters.

Anyway, best thing I can say is read posts by Sirgog, redspecter23. They are both nearly always spot-on.

Short version: being ranged (particularly with evasion, or excellent twitch skills) allows you to avoid a tremendous amount of damage, in most cases this avoidance can be sustained indefinitely through smart kiting. This is very relevant in EE. The fact that AAs and Shiradi both offer excellent sustained damage just makes the damage-taken discrepancy glaringly obvious. It's worth mentioning the pre-MOTU days when good AAs (there didn't use to be many pre-MOTU but they existed) could similarly use ranged combat and movement to avoid damage and solo old epics well, it just took them quite a while due to comparatively low DPS. Shiradi arcane damage isn't obscene (outside of Joy), but it comes with the luxury of a huge amount of build and gear flexibility to devote to survivability. And it's AOE, which is a big advantage as mob packs grow ever larger. AAs get AOE damage via Improved Precise Shot and good kiting. Outside of blitzing, melee simply cannot do comparable damage to packs.

I don't like to see people nerfed, and historically the Turbine dev staff has grossly overcompensated. I also think that the mobile, tactical nature of DDO combat is really unique and fun. Please think things through, and ask questions about particular mechanics that you might not understand. Alternatively, watch some videos in the achievements sections to get an idea of how different players/builds approach challenges.

[stricq]

Get rid of the spheres in epic destinies. They are discriminatory.

Why do I only get feats in the sphere Turbine thinks my character should be in when it's not the sphere that I play in?

[Brolik]

I think the one big thing at the core of the class balance issue is that going up close to melee in EE is infinitely more dangerous than staying at range to fight. Players that want to engage in melee don't have the proper tools to survive, while ranged toons can ignore the issue outright by just not engaging. Add to this the fact that the two new raids both feature dragons (which are a melee nightmare and a ranged dream fight) and you have your problem staring you right in the face.

It's just not worth it to play a melee in the current game/metagame in epic elite. Ranged is safer and potentially much more powerful.

Balance your melee/ranged issue first before going deeper and examining individual classes and abilities. Why is it so hard for a melee to get up close and stay alive for more than a few seconds without looking at specific abilities like bladeforged reconstruct or other built in burst heals? Is it intended that even with over 150+ PRR and an AC over 200 that a "tank" should still need to be burst healed every few seconds when engaged in EE combat? Shouldn't he have the tools to survive more that a second or two compared to another melee with 40 PRR and 0 AC?

Very well said. I think the balance issues is def in the melee. Anyone can run a sorc or wiz or monk/archer plus many of the other multi/class powerhouse builds. My problem is that not all players wanna do that. Im VIP been playing a while current main is on 6th life. Halve alts of everyclass and most races. I enjoy playing the Dwarf with a big freaking axe. Unfourtunatly weather I go kensei or stalwart im useless in the higher lvls. As stated," a toon with 150+PRR and AC over 200 shouldn't have to be burst healed constantly". problem with that is how to fix it . Cant make the dragons and such do less damage or weaker in any way because that in turn makes the power houses more powerful. Basically I think the melee builds mainly barb and fighter(especially fighter) need some changes in there builds. Right now im running monk and its great but like I said I just wanna run a dwarf with an axe. Fat drunk and Stupid....

[Brolik]

Never really posted on here and I just wrote a reply but not sure it went to right page. Im gunna sum it up one more time. FIX THE FIGHTER. IM A SIMPLE GUY WHO JUST WANTS TO RUN SHORT FAT DRUNK DWARF WITH A BIG AXE.

[FranOhmsford]

I enjoy playing the Dwarf with a big freaking axe. Unfourtunatly weather I go kensei or stalwart im useless in the higher lvls.

I must add here that you're going to be hearing from players of all types and I personally have no idea of whether a Kensai is any good at End-Game {According to Brolik the answer would be no!}.
However when looking at the mid Lvls - 11-21 Kensai {esp when added to Monk} runs rings around the likes of KotC/HotD or Frenzied Berserker!

And Stalwart is far far better than Sacred Defender or Occult Slayer!

The latter simply because of the sheer number of Feats available to the fighter as compared to the Paladin or Barbarian - Neither of who's enhancement Trees make up such a vast difference!

[blerkington]

Hi,

I did your survey just now. It's a very blunt instrument, which I doubt will collect much useful information about balance issues. The reasons for this are as follows:

1. It fails to touch upon the core issue of class/race/ED interactions, which is where most of the heat originates in any discussion about character balance.

2. It also fails to deal with the issue of certain abilities being overpowered within a class, race or ED, with many of the other abilities being poor or medium.

The shiradi ED is a good example. This is an ED which is frequently claimed on the forums to be completely OP, and apparently is in need of a wholesale nerf.

However, if you look at how the ED helps different builds based on its procs per missile model, you may start to see that it's not a strong choice for users with low rates of fire (traditional, non 10k stars archers), but it gets better for 10k stars builds (throwers, zen archers) and repeater users, and becomes very useful to high ROF users like casters combining missile and multi-tick AOE spells.

So the basic model here for the destiny is broken, because it adds so much more to high ROF builds, rather than attempting to equalise proc chances and damage across different ROFs.

Pin and Otto's Whistler are good abilities for dealing with individual (or lined-up) trash mobs. But, and this is a big but, these abilities are extremely sensitive to lag, lateral movement which hard-targetted arrows don't track, and the tendencies for stop-start movement and kiting that many mobs have now.

Double rainbow is plagued by bugs and bad design choices. I won't restart that discussion here, but it's not in a good place right now and hasn't been for quite some time, both in terms of dps and usability.

Apart from what is mentioned above, much of what else is in that destiny is pretty ordinary. Tea with the Queen can be very good but is unreliable, Rain of Arrows is woefully bad and should be replaced by something useful, perhaps which offers a dps increase against bosses, Healing Spring is nice, but the huge range of healing it does means that you can get a very small amount of healing on a tick when you needed much more. It's not a reliable way to stay alive in harder content.

The other abilities are weak too (Stay good and Stay frosty appear to be broken in that they don't make your weapon good, don't add the advertised skill bonuses at the highest tier, and add very little damage on average per missile - less on average than low-level imbues from the AA tree available at heroic levels, which is a bit of a farce for a similar epic level ability).

So in view of things like this, what is the answer to the question, Is shiradi overpowered? The answer consists entirely in what other build choices you've made for your character. For a pure ranger who makes the poor but flavourful choice of using a bow all the time, not even close. For an arcane missile spammer? Arguably, some abilities are, so maybe yes.

Looking at the most favourable interactions between abilities may get you started on the issue of how to handle the degree of variation between dps output between classes. No, not all builds should be doing the same dps, but there is a problem if some combinations offer five, ten, or even more times as much, than other builds whose party role is also to kill things. Similarly, if, as you've done, you allow saving throws, or spell DCs, spell penetration, to stack to the point where some not deliberately gimped builds are ten or twenty points behind others, you have a balancing issue.

Lastly, I wonder where all this is going to lead. What are you going to do when sensible arguments are made to nerf furyshot, shiradi procs on missile/AOE spammers, many monk abilities, bladeforged self healing, divine grace bonuses on saves for a two levels of paladin splash, centred weapon bonuses?

Do you actually have the intestinal fortitude to follow through on the conclusions that this discussion will have, especially when many of the adjustments might have to be made to purchased classes and race? Only time will tell whether this turns out to be another fake or bungled attempt at consultation or it is in fact the real deal.

I appreciate the effort you appear to be making, but with what you've done to the game since MOTU, the pain required to bring the game back to an even keel may be too much.

Thanks.

[Seljuck]

I'll say only: SHIRADI CASTERS...

Who play with them, don't need explanation. Who don't know that build, check YT, plenty of Solo EE video.

Allowing the creation of such a combination of classes and skills really affects the balance of the game. It's not an exploit, but definitely its weak side of game/skill mechanic. It is an makers oversight, which even after the detection has not been repaired at proper time. Do not get me wrong, I have nothing to people who play such a character. But dev admission to the formation of such a combination, should never have happened. This weakens the game. Practically outclasses the other characters and the team game. Destroys the challenge of completing adventures on the toughest level.
There are also other, hopefully unintended by the developers, examples of the use of game mechanics. Shiradi casters in my speech are just an example. An example of a destructive mechanism affecting the balance of the game.

PS. I wonder how much of a negative reputation I'll get for the word of truth...

PS2. I have my own shiradi caster... so I know what I'm talking about. Like others I like big numbers, but I can live without them. Do You too?

[Turbosilk]

The shiradi ED is a good example. This is an ED which is frequently claimed on the forums to be completely OP, and apparently is in need of a wholesale nerf.

Please provide actual real supporting data to back up your claim. Otherwise it looks like perception vs reality and we don't want real changes made based on perception.

[FlaviusMaximus]

10K Stars and Manyshot

10k Stars and Manyshot were not abilities that people complained about before Epic Destinies. When used in conjunction, 10k stars and Manyshot brought archers up to respectability, but they weren't overpowered. The addition of 10k stars showed that the developers were listening to the player base, and the change was positive, in my opinion, because they gave archers a respectable rate of fire, which is something that was a primary concern for pure archers. It really wasn't until later that people started to have complaints about ranged characters as a result of changes from the Enhancement Update and Epic Destinies. Other than taking the doubleshot penalty off Manyshot (to allow people to not have to monk splash their archers), I wouldn't alter Manyshot or 10k stars. They aren't where the problem lies. Fury of the Wild is where the changes need to happen, in my opinion.

Fury of the Wild

Here's the thing about Adrenaline; It's not worth using on just one attack in its current state, which is why non-ranged characters don't touch it once they understand how all of the destinies work. On the other hand, it's too powerful when it works on 3 or 4 (more for certain ranged builds...) attacks like it does for ranged characters.

I believe you can make Fury of the Wild appealing to a wider variety of classes than just the ranged classes that utilize it now, while also bringing Furyshot ranged characters back down from the stratosphere with a couple simple changes.

Proposed Changes

Have adrenaline affect only one projectile in a volley, whether they be shurikens or arrows, but up the amount of damage that it does on that one attack. Instead of adding 400% damage, make it 650% damage. While this may same like a big increase, it reduces the damage of an Adrenalized volley in Manyshot (4 arrows x 400% damage) by about 60%. If a wisdom based monkcher is averaging 2.5 arrows fired while 10k stars is active, this is a 35% decrease in damage. This adds up to a significant decrease in damage for monkchers overall, but it wouldn't completely cripple them, send them all running to another destiny, or force them to TR, in my opinion.

The addition of damage to Adrenaline would also help make Fury of the Wild more appealing to non-ranged classes and add variety to who uses the destiny at the moment. It would make DPS Paladins more attractive for the smite/adrenaline combo, it creates a more appealing synergy for xbow users (those with Sniper Shot and/or Slaying Arrows, especially for Great Xbow), it creates a decent synergy between Deepwood Stalker's Exposing Strike and Adrenaline, and so on and so forth. There is even a benefit for bow users, in that they do not have to wait until Manyshot or 10k stars are off timer to efficiently use Adrenaline.

In summary, I don't think you have to choose between boosting other classes and scaling back the power of monkchers. I believe you can do both with these two simple alterations;

1) Make Adrenaline only affect 1 projectile in a volley, and
2) Up the amount of damage from Adrenaline to 650%

Unbridled Fury

As for the epic moment, do not allow charges for it to be built up while the epic moment is in use or on timer. I do not believe more than that is necessary with the other proposed changes implemented.

Drawbacks To Another Popular Solution For Scaling Back Monkchers

A fairly popular suggestion for scaling back monkchers that I have seen on the forums, is for Adrenaline uses to not regenerate with rolls of 20 while ranged. The problem is that limiting the number of uses of Adrenaline down to 7 total between shrines (for pure ranged characters) is either going to be too extreme or too weak, depending on the quest, since this solution is too dependent on how many shrines are available to characters. In longer quests with fewer shrines like the shadow dragon raid, I think it would completely screw Furyshot ranged characters, while in quests that are very shrine heavy, it wouldn't be enough of a reduction in their power. In other words, the results of this sort of change would be inconsistent at best.


* Side Note: (650% damage was chosen because it would be enough of an increase to appeal to non-ranged classes that have special attacks, but not so high that monkchers would still be overpowered. If these changes seem appealing and new numbers are considered, I wouldn't go below 600% or above 700%.)

[blerkington]

I'll say only: SHIRADI CASTERS...

Please provide actual real supporting data to back up your claim. Otherwise it looks like perception vs reality and we don't want real changes made based on perception.

Hi,

Turbo, I think you may be misreading what I've said here.

All I am saying is that it is frequently claimed on the forums that shiradi casters are overpowered.

If you need evidence of this very mild claim, ie, that people are claiming on the forums that shiradi casters are OP, just take a look at the post right above yours.

Thanks.

[blackzombie_deathson]

Dungeons & Dragons: Online isn't perfectly balanced. We're interested in discussing what balance means, and how important balance is to you, the players. We want to know how often you'd like to see balance changes.

For this thread, we're looking particular at character balance, and how characters compare to one another. To some extent this borders on discussion of player characters vs. quest difficulty (and all that entails), but the focus here is player characters compared against other player characters (but not PvP). At some other time we may also look at other balance issues, such as Normal/Hard/Elite, or more specific issues like items, quests, monsters, traps, raids, or boss monsters.

Why does Character Balance matter?

We'd like a variety of roles and styles of play to be supported at a high level of play, without some builds that look like fun feeling bad to play because other characters seem so much more powerful. We've heard some level of concern over these topics and related issues. Perfect balance doesn't need to be achieved, and probably can't be achieved, but most or all playstyles should feel competitive. (We recognize that creating terrible character builds with the vast possibilities offered in DDO is always going to be possible, but we can probably all agree that's not the real issue.)

In short, we want you to be able to play what you want to play, have fun doing it, and feel like you can be a worthwhile contributor to a party (if that's how you choose to play).

Why isn't every character made stronger, to match the strongest characters already out there?

• Challenge: We want to be able to provide challenges to those who seek that kind of gameplay. There should be limits to player-character power in order to achieve this, when comparing player characters against monsters, traps, bosses, etc.
• Understanding what's already there: Minimizing changes also allows everyone to keep a consistent idea of what exists. If almost everything changes, it's like starting over from scratch, and therefore much harder to get everything right.
• Time and resources matter: We can save a great deal of time by only changing a few overpowered abilities, rather than changing all other characters, monsters, traps, and quests to match those few most overpowered abilities or features. If we can spend a day or a week pulling back on the strongest rather than months increasing everything else, that leaves us far more time to implement new features.

What are some examples of things that could be better balanced?

We're keenly aware that each player probably has some topics they are concerned about, and we don't like to break characters or take away fun things that are already there. However, we may have been too cautious about balance changes in the past, especially after a new ability or feature has been launched. We'd like to know if you'd prefer changes to come more quickly, or if we should sit back and let you guys show us what can really be done before making changes.

That said, some broad areas that we know perhaps could use some consideration:

• Ranged combat vs. Melee Combat vs. Spellcasting, at all character levels. As an example, not so long ago, ranged combat was largely considered inferior to melee combat. We made some conscious decisions to try to improve the viability of ranged combat. That's at least a partial success, but has brought along some issues of its own.
• Class & Race Balance: They don't all need to have identical appeal from a power perspective (as there are other reasons to play any class), but we should try to get them close enough that it doesn't feel bad to play any particular race or class, or that you feel forced to take any levels in a particular class to feel powerful.
• Epic Destinies: We know some destinies are more popular than others, and also considered more powerful. Sometimes this is a result of unintended bugs. This could include discussions of Twists of Fate, so individual abilities vs. other abilities can still matter, though we don't expect to make every ability equally viable as a Twist of Fate (for its tier). Abilities that can't be twisted (Innate abilities and tier 5 & 6) should be largely considered as a group when comparing entire Destinies.

This does mean potentially looking at things that rhyme with ten-thousand cars, many fought, caster's fritz, chirashi cambrian, the bunk crass, or american overtoad.


We're happy to hear general thoughts on character balance, what you'd like to see, and also why you'd like to see certain changes (or non-changes.) We don't want to change any particular things without good reasons, so convince us!

We'd love to also get feedback from as many of you as possible from this survey!

• Character Balance Survey

loved the iniciative, finnally turbine is listening players

to me, the key to balance is team work, thats why i started to play ddo and loved some years ago
lvl cap was 20, and team work was great, a balanced party always had a healer and a cc
it was actually obrigatory if u want a raid completion at that time
but today , cc is not so needed, in ee endgame , dcs r too high or is too hard to get the nunbers high enough
in ehards, ( old epics, and endgame) it is not needed at all, and sometimes we dont need even a healer, just dps and more dps

i dont rly mind with build that can hit overpowered dps, but i think that build cant be able to self heal, cc, buffs, tanks...

so, if u want to balance, you need to see wich goals is needed to a balanced party

that it, sry for some english errors, its not my first languange, im still learning
and thank you for asking, finnally

[EllisDee37]

Great statement in general but how do you back it up with actual data? If people perceive something is doing 50 to 100% more dps than the next build but in reality it is 5% more should perception cause a nerf?

Well, I've thrown up my hands in disgust in the Divine Crusader thread because the devs either do not understand or do not care about this clear and obvious imbalance:

Master's Blitz: +250% base damage for the entire quest
Wrath of the Righteous: +50% base damage w/50% doublestrike (+125% base damage net) for 3 seconds, decays 1%/1% every 3 seconds until completely gone, then after the long cooldown ends you get to start over with +50%/+50%

If the cooldown is 150 seconds, meaning you can keep it going 24/7 -- and it's likely to be closer to 300 seconds -- you would average +62.5% damage bonus. That's a QUARTER of the power that blitz brings to the table.

It's hard to argue that away as being a matter of perspective.

[LucasMacKinnon]

One of the things I see for balancing and making different classes viable for one is rogue and arti. Since when should 2 levels of rogue or arti be enough to do traps with a CR of 30? Hell even a cr 10. I think a 2 level splash of rogue or arti should only be able to do up to a cr 5 maybe trap. It doesn't make sense that they can do epic traps. If you think about it from the perspective of how much trapping training would one receive with just 2 levels of that class? Not that much. How could you be competent at something that would take a skilled mechanic rogue or artificer to do?