Wizard: Drow or Iconic Elf

[Sokól]

Anyone have a good picture of what a sun elf would look like compared to a male drow? I never have liked the way Drow look.

Right there with the Halfling male, ugly as hell lol

[HungarianRhapsody]

Is there any real advantage to 36 point build over 32? What would the extra points go in to?

Dex for more AC!


Edit: oh, wait - that's for Sorcerers.

[AlmGhandi]

Right there with the Halfling male, ugly as hell lol

Hey!

[Sokól]

Hey!

Sorry dude, just my humble opinion...

[Failedlegend]

7 months go by and you realize you never actually used the umd skill.

My Harm Scrolls disagree with you

[EllisDee37]

My Harm Scrolls disagree with you

I'd agree with your harm scrolls if I could acquire them at-will.

[ChemE]

My Harm Scrolls disagree with you

I have acquired exactly one of these in three years. I keep it in the bank just to prove to myself that they actually exist.

[Failedlegend]

I'd agree with your harm scrolls if I could acquire them at-will.

I have acquired exactly one of these in three years. I keep it in the bank just to prove to myself that they actually exist.

At-will no but as a PM you can meet a secret collector guy called "Dannato" he will trade Marks of the Keeper for Necro Scrolls I've got so many Neg Energy Burst Scrolls and Harm scrolls I've got little issue keeping myself up with em...mind you I'm a hoarder and had a massive load of them since I've\ been collecting them since Stormreach Unlimited

That said I'm very surprised that PMs didn't get Harm as a capstone or Tier 5 ability

[Satyriasys]

Anyone have a good picture of what a sun elf would look like compared to a male drow? I never have liked the way Drow look.

They look exactly the same only with warmer colors.

[Deathdefy]

It's 2 points of CON vs 1 point of UMD to me. Given that, my thinking is that drow is fine if you'd rather spend the TP for a Lesser Heart +1 on an Epic or Iconic Heart instead.

I found that I simply didn't have the AP to spend more then 8 points in the racial tree given the demands from Archmage and Pale Master. Obviously your build may differ, but I'd definitely check.

Also, remember the exit cost of playing an Iconic. If you want out, you have to get to cap, forfeit your opportunity for an Epic Past Life, and fork out 4200 commendations for the excellent Sun Elf past life.

[EllisDee37]

It's 2 points of CON vs 1 point of UMD to me. Given that, my thinking is that drow is fine if you'd rather spend the TP for a Lesser Heart +1 on an Epic or Iconic Heart instead.

Con is the same for both. The main difference is that sun elf gets hundreds of more spell points per shrine.

[EllisDee37]

At-will no but as a PM you can meet a secret collector guy called "Dannato" he will trade Marks of the Keeper for Necro Scrolls I've got so many Neg Energy Burst Scrolls and Harm scrolls I've got little issue keeping myself up with em...mind you I'm a hoarder and had a massive load of them since I've\ been collecting them since Stormreach Unlimited

You sure you can still do that? I believe the harm scrolls were removed from that technique a couple updates ago when they redid the collectors. (I think that technique may have been removed altogether, not just the harm scrolls.)

As a proof of concept, go acquire one single harm scroll from a repeatable source (no ah or trade channel) and then report back what resources you spent to get it.

[Deathdefy]

Con is the same for both. The main difference is that sun elf gets hundreds of more spell points per shrine.

Oh true! I forgot Sun Elf's -2 Con.

Yeah, I'd definitely go Drow then. I know on my wizard builds I never have the points to spend in the racial tree apart from the core upto +2 Int, though with a different build that could afford Arcanum somehow, I see the appeal.

[EllisDee37]

Yeah, I'd definitely go Drow then. I know on my wizard builds I never have the points to spend in the racial tree apart from the core upto +2 Int, though with a different build that could afford Arcanum somehow, I see the appeal.

I wasn't talking about arcanum, but that is another 100 sp per shrine if you max it. (Which I wouldn't.)

I'm referring to Feywild Tap, which is worth something around 500 sp per shrine. Each use at epic levels gives you around 100 temporary spell points that last a minute, and you can use it 5 times per rest.

The only prereq is the enhancement line that also gives you +1 enchantment dc, which is good enough in its own right to be worth taking regardless.

The Sun Elf racial tree for a pale master ends up being:

6 AP cores (+2 int)
3 AP Enchantment Lore (+1 enchantment DC)
1 AP on whatever to meet the 10 AP "points in tree" prereq for feywild tap
3 AP on feywild tap
---
13 AP

It's 14 AP if you remove that 1 throwaway AP and replace it with the first rank of arcanum. There's not much in the PM or AM trees that's better bang for your buck than those 13 AP.

[Deathdefy]

I wasn't talking about arcanum, but that is another 100 sp per shrine if you max it. (Which I wouldn't.)

I'm referring to Feywild Tap, which is worth something around 500 sp per shrine. Each use at epic levels gives you around 100 temporary spell points that last a minute, and you can use it 5 times per rest.

The only prereq is the enhancement line that also gives you +1 enchantment dc, which is good enough in its own right to be worth taking regardless.

The Sun Elf racial tree for a pale master ends up being:

6 AP cores (+2 int)
3 AP Enchantment Lore (+1 enchantment DC)
1 AP on whatever to meet the 10 AP "points in tree" prereq for feywild tap
3 AP on feywild tap
---
13 AP

It's 14 AP if you remove that 1 throwaway AP and replace it with the first rank of arcanum. There's not much in the PM or AM trees that's better bang for your buck than those 13 AP.

Sure. That sounds very good if you can afford it.

I find 41 in Archmage for the Capstone and 32 in Pale Master for Lich is hard to pass up if you want the dps of Supremacy and max DC. But like I said, build dependant.

As I said, I'd go Drow due to the 4200 Commendation exit cost of Iconic, and Lesser Heart +1 cost to get pure in the first place for Iconics.

[EllisDee37]

Sure. That sounds very good if you can afford it.

I find 41 in Archmage for the Capstone and 32 in Pale Master for Lich is hard to pass up if you want the dps of Supremacy and max DC. But like I said, build dependant.

Max DC in what?

Generally speaking you'll get max DC from:

41 Pale Master (capstone)
25 Archmage (school mastery, enervation SLA, +2 int)
9 drow or sun elf (+2 int, +1 enchantment DC)
---
75

Leaving 5 AP to play around with. That could either qualify for the full 14 AP in the sun elf tree for feywild tap +arcanum I, or maybe toss it into archmage for better elemental crits, or whatever.

Taking the archmage capstone (but sticking with PM tier 5s) costs you -1 enchantment DC compared to max. Taking AM to tier 5 with lich form costs you -1 to all DCs compared to max.

[Deathdefy]

Sure. That sounds very good if you can afford it.

I find 41 in Archmage for the Capstone and 32 in Pale Master for Lich is hard to pass up if you want the dps of Supremacy and max DC. But like I said, build dependant.

As I said, I'd go Drow due to the 4200 Commendation exit cost of Iconic, and Lesser Heart +1 cost to get pure in the first place for Iconics.

Max DC in what?

Generally speaking you'll get max DC from:

41 Pale Master (capstone)
25 Archmage (school mastery, enervation SLA, +2 int)
9 drow or sun elf (+2 int, +1 enchantment DC)
---
75

Leaving 5 AP to play around with. That could either qualify for the full 14 AP in the sun elf tree for feywild tap +arcanum I, or maybe toss it into archmage for better elemental crits, or whatever.

Taking the archmage capstone (but sticking with PM tier 5s) costs you -1 enchantment DC compared to max. Taking AM to tier 5 with lich form costs you -1 to all DCs compared to max.

Arcane Supremacy is good enough at suring up the one thing DC wizards are ordinarily terrible at - dps - that I'd struggle with not having it.

Again, again, again, it's build specific.

I'm sure the Lesser heart +1 and Iconic True Heart cost of an Iconic Sun Elf life could be justified on a build that didn't care about dps (e.g. a pure Mass Hold bot or a DC Necromancer that wasn't expected to help much on red names).

Personally, I run an Illusion focused wizard. I'd lose a DC in every school but Enchantment by taking the racial enhancements over Lich form, since I would be unwilling to seriously consider give up Arcane Supremacy on anything but a Necromancy build (which actually gains a DC by going T5 Pale Master).

[EllisDee37]

Arcane Supremacy is good enough at suring up the one thing DC wizards are ordinarily terrible at - dps - that I'd struggle with not having it.

I dunno, it seems kinda meh to me. You still won't have sorc level dps. It ends up being worth somewhere between 5-10% extra dps over the long haul if I remember correctly. Not worth sacrificing 5% DC on a DC caster.

[Satyriasys]

Con is the same for both. The main difference is that sun elf gets hundreds of more spell points per shrine.

But you will have more build points on creation than a Drow so can put those points into con. So basically they're exactly like a Drow only with +2 con and -2 cha.

[EllisDee37]

But you will have more build points on creation than a Drow so can put those points into con. So basically they're exactly like a Drow only with +2 con and -2 cha.

A third life drow gets the same con as a third life sun elf: max. (16) The difference is that the drow is left with no build points while a sun elf has four more to spend in either strength or charisma, both of which are kind of pointless. But nevertheless, it is indeed the same con, and sun elf gets more build points.

If you're on a first or second life, a sun elf does get +2 con compared to drow, though.