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  1. #1
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    Default Please bring back Spell Casting and Spell Books

    Dear Turbine…Please bring back spell casting and spell books.
    There have been several changes to the game lately involving spell casting that have frustrated me. It feels like the minute I hit level 20 my spell book is abandoned for SLA (spell like abilities). The problem has several origin points.

    1) Damage caps on spells. The level cap of the game has gone up to 28, but spells are still capping out at level 20 or lower. This divides them into two categories when trying to cast in epic quests. Use instant death spells or drinks lots of pots because your DPS is ****.

    The use of instant death spell has also gone by the way side recently because the saves of mobs has been elevated so much that even on my Necro caster (Drow, Pure Wizard, All necro feats, Completionist, Highest Int gear) still fails most of the time unless using energy drain. This method costs WAY too much sp.


    Turbine may claim that the Draconic tree opens up the spell caps and gives addition spell power. I will once again say the difference it makes is ****. The number of hit points mobs have starting around lvl 19 jumps at an absurd level. Melee get to continually build on their abilities regardless of level, but the casters are left in the dark. Once you are over level 20 forget your spell book and just use the SLA of the epic destinies. It seems that Turbine is forgetting that the Spell books are the source of the casters power, it is why we like playing casters!

    The problem of with SLA at epic levels is that they all required you to be in close range. As casters we have no armor, we have little to no doge. The only thing we really have going for us is blur and displacement. One cast of true seeing and we have no defense at all. WE DO NOT LIKE GETTING CLOSE TO MOBS. WE ARE SQUISHY!

    The current solution to the high sp demands and pathetic damage of caster at epic levels is to go Shiradi, hope for procs and spam Magic missile. DID YOU READ THAT? MAGIC MISSLE IS CURRENTLY THE BEST SPELL IN OUR SPELL BOOKS! What is the point of being a lvl 10, 12 or 20 wizard if your best spell you get at level 1? A caster gives up much to reach level 20, to fill their spell books with high powered spells. I think something should be done to make powerful spells powerful again.

    The Sorcs have had it the worst. Their PRE SLA are useless in high end content since they only hit once and therefore have fewer procs. They are suppose to be the nukers, able to rain down obscene damage, but they can’t. They made many sacrifices for this ability. They are casters so the amount of damage they can do is limited to their spell points. (I know people have complained that melee can’t do as much damage as caster and I think they forget that casters have Spell points. At some point we become useless or have to drink a pot. Melee can swing away all day long.) They have also given up the variety of spells that wizards have in exchange for greater nuking power. I know I speak for everyone one them when I say, this power has been denied them at epic levels and it should be returned.

    2) The second problem is that the saves of mobs are currently being calculated based on a Wizard in the Magister line fully focused in his school. This means that my Necro can’t really use any crowd control spells, everything saves. It is useless. Part of the fun of being a caster is the variety. We know the mobs, what saves are weak and we can change our spell books to fit them. It requires the player to understand the game more. It creates a greater tactical experience, and is a lot more enjoyable than spamming 5 buttons over and over hoping for procs ( SLA mm, SLA chain missile, mm, chain missile, and meteor swarm).

    The saves issue is also another reason why so many casters have abandoned the arcane sphere for Shiridi. The frost and nerve venom effect are far more useful at controlling mobs than our crowd control spell, because the saves are so high and there is no save on these abilities.


    3) Temporary Spell points. We hate them! We hate them! I understand where you are coming from. It was not the most fun to stand around while caster got shot to pieces so could torc up on SP. I also see them as Turbine’s solution to the overwhelming demands of Epic level content. I will tell you right now ( I have a torc, I have the boots) that it is not nearly enough. There are multiple times in a raid, or quest when you are standing around for a while (e.g. the boss is delivering his soliloquy) and then you lose all your temp SP. Temp SP doesn’t stack so multiple procs don’t help at all. Do you realize the cost of casting a level 9 maximized empowered spell? This spell doesn’t’ clear the field. It doesn’t even do a lot of damage. The concept of SP management is gone. The solution is to just go Shiradi and spam those magic missiles


    Proposed Solutions:
    • Master of Magic (Magister Epic Tree): use your highest DC school of magic for all schools of magic (e.g. If your Necro school is 67 then it will be used for conjuration, evocation etc…)
    The problem, nullifies past lives in Sorc and Cleric.
    • Introduce a Proc systems for Magister and Draconic with a spell stacking component (e.g. A level 8 spell has 8 chances to proc)
    This would really change things. We would start to see chain lighting and fire balls again. The casters would start casting again!
    • Master of Opposition: a meta magic that allowed you to switch the damage of a spell to its polar opposite (e.g. Polar Ray would do fire damage). This would give a lot more options for damage to specialists such as Sorcs.
    • An imbue option: such as imbue the weapons of nearby allies with a spell such as Soul Trap (granting a 7% chance to trigger when they attack) or Delayed Blast Fire Ball imbue. This would generate more team work and encourage greater variety in parties. It would also grant the Melee something from the tree they might want to twist in. And if the imbue toggle is turned on it adds the effect to all spell cast by the caster (e.g. I cast Black Dragon Blot and the target is hit by a black dragon bolt and a delayed blast fire ball). The caster would start casting again!
    • Procs that would double/triple/quadruple spell damage in the Draconic tree.
    A few other things I think would be fun:
    Abilities:
    Sacrifice the Willing: A 20% hp penalty is inflicted on an ally for 2min (you can target yourself) you gain 300sp.
    Sacrifice the Unwilling: Upon killing a mob with an arcane spell or SLA there is a 7% chance that you will drain its life force and gain 300sp.
    Draconic Fury: Every time you cast an evocation spell there is a 15/20/25% chance that it will cost 0sp. This effect is triggered before the systems checks if you have enough sp to cast so even at 0sp you can still cast evocation spells 25% of the time.
    While in an Arcane Destiny you gain 1d6 of your choice of elemental damage per character to be added to your existing spell damage. This would mean all caster would benefit from the arcane sphere and because it would add to existing damage there would still be a reward for having more caster levels. (This idea is based on something Shorslice wrote.)
    Also we could add addition DCs based on character level while in the Arcane Sphere.
    In general I hope they do something, being a Wizard used to be a lot of fun. Now I Just spam Magic Missile.

    If you have any suggestion to help bring back spell casting I'd love to hear them.

  2. #2
    Community Member Ykt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbendoski View Post
    A few other things I think would be fun:
    Abilities:
    Sacrifice the Willing: A 20% hp penalty is inflicted on an ally for 2min (you can target yourself) you gain 300sp.
    This made me LOL.

  3. #3
    Community Member TekkenDevil's Avatar
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    They need to revamp casters in one way or another to match the current Melee meta.
    If you're going to make melee this freaking strong, then PLEASE make Spells MUCH easier to land, or even do away with difficulty checks on most spells.
    The least they could do is to at least enable every single spell in the game to be useful now and show actual effects. It's clear that Turbine doesn't care for difficulty anymore when a melee can slaughter 5 armies with little self sufficiency, so how about stuff like Hold Monster landing every single time you cast it?

    I mean come on, this first life guy next to you gets to hold down left click and dispatch of a horde with zero problems while you on the other hand are trying to cast Blindness on just a single one, but he makes a save against it because you didn't gear up and spec enhancements and TR several times to power your DC up enough, so you try again and it misses, and so you try again and YAY IT LANDE- oh..... oh everything is long dead already anyways........

    That or give us back our DPS.

  4. #4
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbendoski View Post
    Once you are over level 20 forget your spell book and just use the SLA of the epic destinies. It seems that Turbine is forgetting that the Spell books are the source of the casters power, it is why we like playing casters!
    This is the fundamental problems with all EDs. They are not class based, so anyone can be anything they want. That sounds great, but that means that pretty much everything you did before level 20 is a complete waste of time.

    I've got a fighter than can create Tsunamis out of thin air, and a wizard that can toss a boulder. And anyone can cocoon. It's not that great, but it's what we've got.

    The biggest issue with casters is that on EE the dcs are just stupid. I get around this by playing non meta gamed casters on EH. They're not geared as well, they don't have multiple pls, but they are somehow lots more effective than my completionist min/max toon at EE. And it's a lot more fun to play that way as I don't have to grind out the latest gear every update.

    FWIW, YMMV, etc.

  5. #5
    Community Member IronClan's Avatar
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    The problem is multi faceted not at all simple. DC's are a math problem, once you've solved it (geared your character with +DC and + casting stat gear) you're trivializing content. Facerolling stuff. Take a balanced party through EH and what happens? Casters have 50-100 kills while melee's have 15-ish. Because the caster is killing stuff 15 seconds before the melee can even close the distance. A caster with even a mid to high 40-ish casting stat and a couple pieces of DC gear is insta killing, wailing, fingering, imploding, destructing, distintigrating and etc. everything!

    In EE the DC's jump up because if they didn't the casters with DC would be instantly facerolling everything. Leading to a "all Multi-TR DC casters only" EE.

    So it is what it is.

    The problem is for some reason they nerfed Nuking by getting rid of the critical multiplier. Making it harder to get reasonable DPS output but its not impossible.

    Building for nuking power, disregarding DC's and taking advantage of what that will let you do (think great saves, evasion, max CON score); will put you on the same level as most melee or ranged in EE IMO. That is to say more slowly killing stuff Because the Melee while they're doing good damage in EE have to still close the gap between them and the mobs, while you've sent off MM, Electric loops, Chain Missiles, Lightning, Lightning Sphere SLA's and Sound bursts and etc. to get Shiradi procs. And the ranged are pugging aways as well. I wont say it's well balanced, but I will say it's a heck of a lot less of a faceroll and a heck of a lot more balanced than EH.

    Now that does mean Shiradi or Draconic ED's by default, and it also means a pure class caster is at a disadvantage simply because they only have access to two trees soon to be another tree (Eldritch Knight but at first glance that seems useless to a nuking caster, maybe give some low hanging survivability perks by the time they finalize it). But also because a pure caster has WAY LESS SLA's than a heavily multiclassed caster.

    IMO right now a good multiclass nuker would have been held up as the zenith of gimp a few months ago. In terms of spamming Shiradi for max procs, and totally giving up (I mean totally) on DC's in favor of survivability. I hear the Fire angel build is popular and along these lines.

    Max CON, Evasion splash, and/or Saves splash, Some Form of Incorporeal (that's 12 Wiz for Wraith form or 6 Monk) Dodge, and PRR (Shield + feats, even Heavy Armor) Add to this as many SLA's as possible focusing on ones that have multiple hits or an AOE effect to hit more mobs.

    EE is there to challenge, if DC casting was effective in EE there would be no point in building anything but an DC based caster, as intantly killing stuff that has tens of thousands of HP, is ALWAYS GOING TO BE THE MASSIVELY FAVORED METHOD...

  6. #6
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    The problem is multi faceted not at all simple. DC's are a math problem,
    If you look at the big picture instead of the specifics, it's not a math problem at all. It's a lack of imagination problem. There are ways to create challenges beyond just hiking up dcs and hps to ridiculous levels. There are ways to make boss fights difficult without just giving all red names blanket immunities to everything that could render them immediately harmless.

    But this takes imagination and quite a bit more programming as it would also require a lot more randomization. We get the easy peasey video game solutions, and they are not very satisfying to play. There's also the issue that certain classes get to use their superpowers on red names, while other classes do not. DOTs work fine, but you can't assassinate or charm a red name, ever. Rogues and bards don't get DOTs, so they are left with only melee skills to attack red names, and not all rogues and bards have (or should need) melee skills. This is just one example. There are many others.

    It's about creating challenges that are more than just stupid high maths and blanket immunities. This also leads to "exploiter" toons because once you've figured out the math, it's just a matter of maximizing the pertinent numbers. More variation and randomization in quests would lead to more variations of characters and people playing.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    In EE the DC's jump up because if they didn't the casters with DC would be instantly facerolling everything. Leading to a "all Multi-TR DC casters only" EE.
    Or, instead of the simplistic math problem, give the mobs reasonable saves and then add AI to have EE clerics cast mass DW within seconds of any mob near them aggroing on a PC. Then the caster in your party would try to snipe the clerics (an act of player skill, not just math) or, if they can't target and kill the cleric in time, as a second option switches to CC thanks to saves not being super high.

    But be careful! The arcane mob might follow that up with a circle against evil, foiling the player cleric's plans at greater command. Doh, now here comes FOM to prevent holds. That dirty stinking mob ranger just threw an FOM on the arcane! The nerve! I know, I'll throw up a dancing ball. That'll show em...alright, the now-deathwarded wizard just cyclonic blasted my dball to kingdom come. Gah!

    How about all EE mobs, as an effect of being EE, get a 20% chance at creation of wearing a deathblock item? Each instance, each newly created mob gets that roll. This means you never know which mobs will be immune to insta-kill. Maybe this encourages trap the soul? Lord knows extra variety for DC casting wouldn't hurt.

    There are ways to make it not a simple math problem.

  8. #8
    Community Member Satyriasys's Avatar
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    I think they should significantly buff Arcane Spellsurge. It would let Wizards have their moments in EE without being able to zerg.

  9. #9
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    You raise some valid points, but you're not seeing the whole picture. You seem entirely focused on the Arcane sphere. You realize that the majority of casters are not Arcane? Only 2 of the 5 primary casting classes are. So all these "solutions" that involve the Arcane sphere don't come anywhere close to addressing the problem.

    (Of course, if Turbine had held to their promise of making Epic Destinies generic, we wouldn't have that issue, but instead they decided to tightly couple them to specific Heroic classes. Ideally, ANY caster could effectively use, say, Magister, but in practice, who wants to give up 5 caster levels and 6 stat points?)

    Quote Originally Posted by jbendoski View Post
    • Master of Magic (Magister Epic Tree): use your highest DC school of magic for all schools of magic (e.g. If your Necro school is 67 then it will be used for conjuration, evocation etc…)
    The problem, nullifies past lives in Sorc and Cleric.
    That doesn't nullify the past life issue, it magnifies it. So now, you'll never have an Enchantment- or Necro-specced character. Everyone will spec Evo or Conj, and suddenly have 5 higher DC in their real preferred school than if they had actually specced in it. Way to kill even the limited variety we barely have now.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzB View Post
    This is the fundamental problems with all EDs. They are not class based
    Ah, if only that were true!

  11. #11
    Community Member Ellihor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    In EE the DC's jump up because if they didn't the casters with DC would be instantly facerolling everything. Leading to a "all Multi-TR DC casters only" EE.
    Now mlee/shiradi/furyshot are instantly facerolling everything. And no that wouldnt happen to dc casters if DCs worked. Could be like they was in MotU: not weak but not overpwered. Also when DCs work it open the possibility for other classes work with them like barbs.


    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    EE is there to challenge, if DC casting was effective in EE there would be no point in building anything but an DC based caster, as intantly killing stuff that has tens of thousands of HP, is ALWAYS GOING TO BE THE MASSIVELY FAVORED METHOD...
    Sorry but no. While we was at u14-15 instakilling was working fine and people was doing a lot of builds other than dc caster. Now why the hell shouldnt dc casting work if shiradi works?

    My proposed solution:
    - buff shiradi to work nice for ranged dps
    - shiradi can proc only 1/spell
    - adrenalines can proc only 1/attack (that means on manyshot or 10k stars they work only for first arrow)
    - blitz caps at 6th stack
    - blitz stacks run out in 15 seconds instead of 10
    - magister core abilities gives +1 dcs to all schools
    - all other distinies in primal/arcane/divine spheres gives +1 dc to all schools on tiers 1, 3 and 5
    - stat increses in EDs cost 1 AP instead of 2
    - primal avatar, exalted angel, magister and draconic gets new tier 6 ability: +4 int/wis/cha, costs 2 ap
    Last edited by Ellihor; 10-26-2013 at 08:33 AM.

  12. #12
    Community Member Ellihor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Or, instead of the simplistic math problem, give the mobs reasonable saves and then add AI to have EE clerics cast mass DW within seconds of any mob near them aggroing on a PC. Then the caster in your party would try to snipe the clerics (an act of player skill, not just math) or, if they can't target and kill the cleric in time, as a second option switches to CC thanks to saves not being super high.
    So dc casters have to play smart and rest of builds desnt!

  13. #13
    Community Member devashta's Avatar
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    /signed

    DC Casting has to be made effective in EEs. Difference between paid class (monk) and wizard is so obvious its not even fun anymore.(I play monk too).

  14. #14
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    I think a big issue is that for casters the game is divided into 2 halfs; before lvl 20 and after lvl 20. Melee get their abilties added to at level 20, but caster have to completely change their style. Even the the basic classes levels they take is changed at level 20. Before 20 at least 18 levels of the caster is required to be really effective, after 20, it is better if you only have about 7 and then a lot of other classes mixed.

    I agree the problem spreads to divine casting as well. Before level 20 Blade Barrier is an awesome spell, something you look forward to while leveling and celebrate once you have it, but after level 20 don't waste your spell points.

    I also whole agree with blanket immunities being an issue. Caster have some really fun spells that are a total waste on regular mobs because it is better to just kill them. This means the only time they would be use full is red names and up; however those mobs have blanket immunities to all these spells. Which in turn makes half the spell book useless.

  15. #15
    Community Member archerforever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellihor View Post
    buff shiradi to work nice for ranged dps
    could be nice but ED are for everyone and the shiradi is not that bad and is really good for casters


    Quote Originally Posted by Ellihor View Post
    shiradi can proc only 1/spell
    seriously ? u wanna improve shiradi damages and wanna reduce the proc to only 1/spell ?? i dont get it


    Quote Originally Posted by Ellihor View Post
    adrenalines can proc only 1/attack (that means on manyshot or 10k stars they work only for first arrow)
    WHAT ARE U TALKING ABOUT ??!!!!! HERE we are speaking about WIZARDS DC and power !!! SO you want to nerf archers to do NO DAMAGES and make them useless as earlier in DDO to feel better with ur ( bad )caster and feel like u have a big one ??? lol.... YOU ARE SO SELFISH and i dont think u ever played or tryed to play an archer


    Quote Originally Posted by Ellihor View Post
    blitz caps at 6th stack / blitz stacks run out in 15 seconds instead of 10

    ANOTHER TIME, WHAT ARE U TALKING ABOUT ??!!!!! HERE we are speaking about WIZARDS DC and power !!! SO you want to nerf ALL OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME to do NO DAMAGES and make them useless in DDO to feel better with ur caster (that must be really BAD in fact) and feel like u have a big ***** ??? lol.... YOU ARE SO SELFISH and i dont think u ever played or tryed to play something else than ur underpowered and understuffed wizard adventurer...


    Quote Originally Posted by Ellihor View Post
    magister core abilities gives +1 dcs to all schools
    maybe too much, i know wizards/sorc/bads/druids in EE that success all their spells.... another time, it s not cause YOU are bad that everyone else is....


    Quote Originally Posted by Ellihor View Post
    stat increses in EDs cost 1 AP instead of 2
    maybe too much.... if u can get +6 in one ability for only 6 points cost in your ED, this will be a "MUST HAVE" for everyone cause a +6 in an ability is really stong, and i dont think a "MUST HAVE" is a good way....



    Quote Originally Posted by Ellihor View Post
    primal avatar, exalted angel, magister and draconic gets new tier 6 ability: +4 int/wis/cha, costs 2 ap
    ANOTHER TIME, YOUR ARE SO SELFISH, the only thing you want is a wizard that can insta kill everything, you want all other players/class to be useless and weak, and for sure you want to be the only wizard like this on the server


    FINALLY YOU JUST ASK A +10 DC ( 5 for free with core magister + 3 with "must have intel +6" + 2 with the SELFISH EXCLUSIVE TIER 6 casters ED ) for only 6+2= 8 ED points..... and you want to reduce damages from archers by 75% and reduce the power of legendary dreadnought by 40% and make it harder to use .... what a genious you are !!! ( ironic )
    Last edited by archerforever; 10-26-2013 at 12:26 PM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbendoski View Post
    The problem of with SLA at epic levels is that they all required you to be in close range. As casters we have no armor, we have little to no doge. The only thing we really have going for us is blur and displacement. One cast of true seeing and we have no defense at all. WE DO NOT LIKE GETTING CLOSE TO MOBS. WE ARE SQUISHY!
    1k hp shirady wf with quickened reconstruct is a common sight. I'd say casters are prolly more survivable than most melee that need to actually fight face to face with mobs and put their ability points in something other than con.
    NESALOMLJIVI, Thelanis

  17. #17
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    Some other things that might be nice to help various schools of magic:

    Paralyzing Fear: All fear spells you cast have a 20/40/60% chance to render mobs frozen in fear making them helpless even if they save. All failed saves result in this effect.
    Endless Fear: A toggle that applies the phantasmal killer effect to all spells you cast 7/14/21% and uses your Illusion DC (instead of a static DC)

    Arcane Aura: All creatures with 5 ft. of caster take a -5 saves penalty (Because we don't like getting close to mobs remember!)

    Suicidal tendencies: Activate this ability to force all creature under your charm and domination effects to commit suicide. 70/80/90% effective. (could be some type of connection here to the "Sacrifice the Willing.")

    The Spiders Hand: All spells you cast have a chance to spawn a web effect using your conjuration DC 7/14/21%
    Gaze of the Medusa: Same as above but with Flesh to Stone.

    Siphon: any target creatures currently effected by you crowd control spells or effects with lose 5% hp every 2 seconds.

  18. #18
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    The problem is multi faceted not at all simple. DC's are a math problem, once you've solved it (geared your character with +DC and + casting stat gear) you're trivializing content. Facerolling stuff. Take a balanced party through EH and what happens? Casters have 50-100 kills while melee's have 15-ish. Because the caster is killing stuff 15 seconds before the melee can even close the distance. A caster with even a mid to high 40-ish casting stat and a couple pieces of DC gear is insta killing, wailing, fingering, imploding, destructing, distintigrating and etc. everything!

    In EE the DC's jump up because if they didn't the casters with DC would be instantly facerolling everything. Leading to a "all Multi-TR DC casters only" EE.
    So, let's say for starters, Monks (which achieve dc's I've seen in the range of 9 and up to 20 above my caster). They move 3 times faster too, with built in 'wings'. If things were as you say here, Monks, Wiz, Sorc, Any tactical dc user, Clerics, FvS, Druid would all have dc's in their varying abilities that leave them with a 40% unilateral success chance. As this is not the case, this argument can now be considered debunked.

    So it is what it is.

    The problem is for some reason they nerfed Nuking by getting rid of the critical multiplier. Making it harder to get reasonable DPS output but its not impossible.
    The missing crit multipliers is indeed part of the equation. However what's more significant imo is the abundant increases in mob hp/saves. A nuker with or without top gear gets saved against on their attempts regularly. Mobs that supposedly have weak saves targeted take half damage, or none if they have evasion in some cases.

    Building for nuking power, disregarding DC's and taking advantage of what that will let you do (think great saves, evasion, max CON score); will put you on the same level as most melee or ranged in EE IMO.
    This is not true. Well built melee/ranged are getting frequent crits in 19,000+ range by using their ed abilities and good gear. Casters in the same situation are seeing 1/2 to 3/4ths of that. But a melee can swing all day long. A caster is limited by his/her blue bar.

    That is to say more slowly killing stuff Because the Melee while they're doing good damage in EE have to still close the gap between them and the mobs, while you've sent off MM, Electric loops, Chain Missiles, Lightning, Lightning Sphere SLA's and Sound bursts and etc. to get Shiradi procs. And the ranged are pugging aways as well. I wont say it's well balanced, but I will say it's a heck of a lot less of a faceroll and a heck of a lot more balanced than EH.
    A Shiradi, or high/max dc Draconic caster can be competive and even surpass melee by using low level, multi procing spells. He's not referencing them in terms of dc casting. It appears here that you are citing a specific subset not related to the subject matter to counter his assertion. That seems disingenuous to me.

    Now that does mean Shiradi or Draconic ED's by default, and it also means a pure class caster is at a disadvantage simply because they only have access to two trees soon to be another tree (Eldritch Knight but at first glance that seems useless to a nuking caster, maybe give some low hanging survivability perks by the time they finalize it). But also because a pure caster has WAY LESS SLA's than a heavily multiclassed caster.
    Less sla opportunities, lower success rate, higher grind requirement, less hp, less surviveability, less damage. That is what Turbine has done to the arcane and divine casters by listening exclusively to whining melee only players.

    IMO right now a good multiclass nuker would have been held up as the zenith of gimp a few months ago. In terms of spamming Shiradi for max procs, and totally giving up (I mean totally) on DC's in favor of survivability. I hear the Fire angel build is popular and along these lines.

    Max CON, Evasion splash, and/or Saves splash, Some Form of Incorporeal (that's 12 Wiz for Wraith form or 6 Monk) Dodge, and PRR (Shield + feats, even Heavy Armor) Add to this as many SLA's as possible focusing on ones that have multiple hits or an AOE effect to hit more mobs.

    EE is there to challenge, if DC casting was effective in EE there would be no point in building anything but an DC based caster, as intantly killing stuff that has tens of thousands of HP, is ALWAYS GOING TO BE THE MASSIVELY FAVORED METHOD...
    So, let's take away and continue to hold at bay a high level caster's ability to land dc based spells? Instead encourage more people to join the Shiradi bandwagon and multiclass with FvS splits ala 'the new thing?' Can you not see how wrong this is?
    Khyber: Evandus, Halfdeadd, Licoricewhip, Sawyn, Elkabongg, Brothanumsi, Soulbro, Cromix.
    And an army of gimp experiments!

  19. #19
    The Hatchery Scraap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellihor View Post
    So dc casters have to play smart and rest of builds desnt!
    You say that like it's a bad thing.

  20. #20
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    Better balance between Classes and specialties is achieved by:

    1. Leave Shiradi alone - There should be more than one viable choice. It's called variety.

    2. Lower Mob Saves unilaterally by 3-5 in EE content. Invested characters of whichever class and specialty now have achievable numbers.

    3. Raise Mob Saves unilaterally by 6-8 in EH content. Invested characters retain their ability provided they are using relevant destinies and gear.

    4. Leave EN alone. You have to start somewhere. People who cannot run EE or even EH in some cases can still get relevant gear and upgrade through process.

    5. Lower the cooldown on Magister Arcane Spellsurge to 2 minutes. Stop extending cooldowns on arcanes/divines in general. Melee are not equal, they are overpowered by comparison. Too much given without consideration.

    6. Add some of the missing spells to the spell books of spell casting classes. Turbine, you've gone past the point of rendering 3/4 or more of spellbooks useless. That should be a red flag of epic proportion.
    Khyber: Evandus, Halfdeadd, Licoricewhip, Sawyn, Elkabongg, Brothanumsi, Soulbro, Cromix.
    And an army of gimp experiments!

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