When people's response is screenshots of cancelled subscriptions . . .

[MeliCat]

I usually do a yearly sub of my VIP. It's coming up in about a week.

This is not good timing for me to think about this.

[Odlus]

Before I started really playing DDO I had been struggling to decide if I should make this game or Star Trek Online my main MMO. I had ultimately picked DDO since it seemed like the game had far more replayability, plus stuff like TR meant I could slowly experience all of the game's content at each level range while slowly earning more benefits for that same character. I happily picked up the $35 MotU pack since I figured I'd be sticking around for the long haul, and a few days later this announcement hit and it turns out the primary way I had intended to play the game for awhile (TRing and trying out a few new adventure packs on the way back to 20, maybe even a new class or race) is being made far more difficult. It's kind of funny, on the same day this announcement hit the other game I had been weighing against DDO, STO, announced a system that allows characters with a maxed out reputation with various factions to allow your alts to gain double reputation with that same faction.

I can't "threaten" to cancel a subscription since I don't have one, I had been planning on just buying what I wanted through the store. But I can say that if this change goes through and earning a TR is made too much of a hassle, then I won't bother which means there's not much point in me spending money on that low level content. And if this is a sign of how the game is going to be handled (existing systems are gutted to make way for a new system, and in the process existing items are made much harder to earn) then I'm going to be wary of investing time or money into higher level content as well. Haven't reached a point where I can do any sagas on my character, but from reading about them on the wiki it seems like everyone's going to be herded into farming a only a few questlines. Part of what drew me here was that it seemed like there was a huge amount of content you could do, compared to other MMOs where you're stuck just repeating a few max level instances over and over again. Maybe I was wrong.

Hopefully Turbine pays attention to the feedback they've gotten, especially from players with far more experience with the game than I do, and won't make me regret spending the money I've already invested here (admittedly a small amount compared to most others playing), rather than in another game.

[mute_mayhem]

You mean like this?





But we all know Turbine's plan here. We've seen it time and time again with proposed changes over the years.

1. Announce horrible change.
2. "Listen" to player feedback.
3. Announce slightly less horrible change instead (which was their original plan all along, but now seems more palatable given the horrible alternative)
4. Players sing praises of how awesome Turbine is for not going with original horrible change.

[Thrudh]

Yes I am certain of it. Nobody would ever TR and they would bleed customers overnight. Their mistake was posting the prices of hearts this early in development without giving us any indication of the saga rewards.
Then someone does a saga on Lammania and posts the placeholder numbers which throws the community into a riot. and people wonder why Turbine is so quiet about giving us information, because this is what happens when we only see half of a system.
The new TR mechanic is not even open for testing yet on Lammania. Removing the hearts from the twelve is the real mistake but it's no surprise really. They have been phasing tokens out for a long time now.
Honestly once they get the numbers tuned to a more realistic balance and add some more sagas I think this new system is going to be fine. I will get commendations for doing quests I would have done anyway. Turbine does listen to us and has gone back to the drawing board when we call them out on poor decisions.

Exactly. It's the weekend... We'll get 1000 threads full of nerd-rage until Monday, and then Turbine will change the numbers. These people are going to give themselves heart-attacks with all the bile they are spitting.

[JOTMON]

Lets see if Turbine can earn my business back.

[Ausdoerrt]

Yes I am certain of it. Nobody would ever TR and they would bleed customers overnight. Their mistake was posting the prices of hearts this early in development without giving us any indication of the saga rewards.
Then someone does a saga on Lammania and posts the placeholder numbers which throws the community into a riot. and people wonder why Turbine is so quiet about giving us information, because this is what happens when we only see half of a system.
The new TR mechanic is not even open for testing yet on Lammania. Removing the hearts from the twelve is the real mistake but it's no surprise really. They have been phasing tokens out for a long time now.
Honestly once they get the numbers tuned to a more realistic balance and add some more sagas I think this new system is going to be fine. I will get commendations for doing quests I would have done anyway. Turbine does listen to us and has gone back to the drawing board when we call them out on poor decisions.

The numbers are only part of the problem - though certainly one that caused such active unrest. Here are other issues with the idea:

1) They are basically shutting down all epic quests except for the ones with sagas, if this goes through as is. Reason: They want to sell more copies of the xpack through this horrible system.

2) They are not "phasing out" the tokens, they are axing them overnight.

3) Anything more than 1-2 saga completions per heart will be an increase in the grind. It WILL be more than that even if they pretend to "listen".

4) Moving from BtA tokens to BtC tokens limits the players' options.

[Ivan_Milic]

4. Players sing praises of how awesome Turbine is for not going with original horrible change.

Now who would do that?
The last good idea they had was monster manual.

[Drwaz99]

Now who would do that?

Well I can think of a few, and they all have over 14k posts...

[Mentalina]

[Brendael]

Cmon do you really think they would go live with this? If they did nobody would ever TR.

I think that this is the point. At the moment TR'ing provides a mechanism to enjoy the content that they have purchased repeatedly without spending any money. Turbine would much rather you purchase new Free Realms content when it comes out than play the content you've already paid for.

By killing TR'ing they think that you will spend more money. Simple economics.

[Teh_Troll]

But we all know Turbine's plan here. We've seen it time and time again with proposed changes over the years.

1. Announce horrible change.
2. "Listen" to player feedback.
3. Announce slightly less horrible change instead (which was their original plan all along, but now seems more palatable given the horrible alternative)
4. Players sing praises of how awesome Turbine is for not going with original horrible change.

They do this EVERY update.

People will praise them when they lower it to 10 sagas, 100ish quests, versus the 20 we need to run now.

That to will kill TRing which will kill DDO.

[Scraap]

I think that this is the point. At the moment TR'ing provides a mechanism to enjoy the content that they have purchased repeatedly without spending any money. Turbine would much rather you purchase new Free Realms content when it comes out than play the content you've already paid for.

By killing TR'ing they think that you will spend more money. Delusional economics.

fixd. First that line of thinking presumes folks are premium, and not renting content access monthly. Second it presumes that of the subset of folks falling under the first category, the response of having prior purchases devalued dramatically will be to throw more cash at the folks that just devalued your prior purchase. Don't get me wrong though, I've little doubt someone derped out and had just that line of 'thinking' occur.

[EllisDee37]

They do this EVERY update.

People will praise them when they lower it to 10 sagas, 100ish quests, versus the 20 we need to run now.

That to will kill TRing which will kill DDO.

If they remain BTC then no amount of price lowering will get me to put down my pitchfork.

[2pleasegimmie]

Exactly. It's the weekend... We'll get 1000 threads full of nerd-rage until Monday, and then Turbine will change the numbers. These people are going to give themselves heart-attacks with all the bile they are spitting.

For sure - thank the gods there's always a few fanbois to stamp approval no matter how stupid an idea is. I wonder if they'd keep the game up for those few folks?

[Thrudh]

For sure - thank the gods there's always a few fanbois to stamp approval no matter how stupid an idea is. I wonder if they'd keep the game up for those few folks?

Where did you get the idea that I approve of the change?

The change is stupid and ridiculous, BUT it's not on the live servers yet, and the reactions are over the top.

Many good points have been made why it's a bad idea. The math speaks for itself. One of the reasons they let us preview changes on Lammania is for feedback. The devs will change it.

I'm just amazed at the pathetic TONE of the addicts on these boards.

[oradafu]

Exactly. It's the weekend... We'll get 1000 threads full of nerd-rage until Monday, and then Turbine will change the numbers. These people are going to give themselves heart-attacks with all the bile they are spitting.

I said this earlier, but if that is their game, it's very dangerous for the health of the company.

The game has already been bleeding players from the decisions made since MOTU.

The last time they tried "trolling players" with asinine changes to the game, it was the ED XP. Many people voiced their opinion of not liking it. And a chunk of those cancelled their VIP. Not everyone who cancelled their VIP re-subbed. That's money out of pocket. Additionally, there are still players that believe that the ED XP will happen. Neither one of those things are good things to have if you want a healthy company or game.

It would be beyond stupid to do EXACTLY the same thing here by "trolling players". We've seen here and elsewhere that people have cancelled their subs. I'm pretty sure if you see one cancelled sub screenshot, that means there's at least one other person who cancelled without a SS. And Turbine can't expect everyone who cancelled to restart their sub again.

One top of this, the last update (I mean paid "expansion") seemed to rub EVERYONE the wrong way. No one saw any value for what was added in the PAID portion of the last update. And many VIPs that didn't feel they were getting doubledipped with MOTU, definitely felt it this time. The value of the paid Shadowfell "expansion" is definitely not there.

Players, both VIP and premium are getting tired of the bad decisions made lately. Premiums can just voice their opinions and hold back money. VIPs can cancel their subs. The bean counters can count cancelled subs. And I'm sure they will realize that many will not be spending money in the game in the future.

On top of that, after all the bad feelings have happened, if this is resolved with a "we listened to the players", there will still be players that will only believe what was originally released as information. Proof is in people still talking about the ED XP wipe.

[EllisDee37]

Many good points have been made why it's a bad idea. The math speaks for itself. One of the reasons they let us preview changes on Lammania is for feedback. The devs will change it.

Like they changed the clearly ridiculous collectable turn-in rates on lama before it went live, right? Oh right, those ridiculous values went live.

[enochiancub]

Are they just cancelling their subs but remaining f2p, leaving game altogether but still haunting the forums, or leaving the game and forums?

[legendkilleroll]

Where did you get the idea that I approve of the change?

The change is stupid and ridiculous, BUT it's not on the live servers yet, and the reactions are over the top.

Many good points have been made why it's a bad idea. The math speaks for itself. One of the reasons they let us preview changes on Lammania is for feedback. The devs will change it.

I'm just amazed at the pathetic TONE of the addicts on these boards.

To even think of putting this on lammania is bad enough, somebody must have gone "i know they can run 100 saga's before they TR"

Yeh i hope it gets changed and im sure all this hate will cause that to happen but this idea was still there in the first place

[2pleasegimmie]

Where did you get the idea that I approve of the change?

The change is stupid and ridiculous, BUT it's not on the live servers yet, and the reactions are over the top.

Many good points have been made why it's a bad idea. The math speaks for itself. One of the reasons they let us preview changes on Lammania is for feedback. The devs will change it.

I'm just amazed at the pathetic TONE of the addicts on these boards.

What's the matter, bro - guilty conscience? I don't see your name in my statement.

But since you brought it up; the only thing Lam is for is to test the operation of their patches/content before the shift to live. Turbine almost NEVER bothers to listen to the hoi polloi. The most recent 5 / fail changes have driven that point home with a vengeance.

This is a dried up, has-been of a company, with washed-up, unimaginative employees in charge of our game. Hell, they're even resorting to fascist techniques and policies. It would be funny if it weren't so pathetic.